Common Misconception: Sasuke's a Villain

[Apêx1]

First of, let's look at the definition of 'villain';

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Its connotations always indicate evil intent. However, saying Sasuke has evil intent, when his ultimate goal is 'Revolution' in order to bring peace to the world, is repugnant. People claim Naruto is the moral, resolute and ethically acceptable individual. What people don't asceratin, is that Naruto's naive way of thinking will cause just as much harm, if not greater harm, than Sasuke's methodological way of achieving his goal. You cannot achieve a more extensive form of peace without sacrifice. There will always be potential for desperate revenge to the one's who have lost their loved one's, and it is within human nature, to ascribe blame to a particular person, group, etc. This is the cause of all the war's that have occurred in the Naruto world's past, and will continue to be this way as long as people who have caused chaos are prevalent. Hence, Sasuke appointing blame to the Gokage, and then ridding of them, would allow the people a to feel sense of 'justice' from the one's who were the roots of their desolation.

On the other hand, Naruto is seen as the 'good guy' who has the power to bring peace among the populace. However, when questioning the repercussions of Naruto's temporary peace attainment, one can see the 'bigger picture'. Naruto bringing absolute peace to the world is more improbable than Sasuke having a change of heart and becoming truly villainous. Naruto wants to create peace by not allowing people to die, a notion which is laughable in a realistic perspective. Where will all the people's hatreds go? Naruto making Sasuke's hatred go away (which is unlikely, seeing as its intention is good willed) doesn't transpire into everyone else's hatred being converted to love.

All in all, Sasuke's concept of peace is much more realistic and efficacious than Naruto's ingenuous and naive dogma. He has shown the ability to appreciate his friendship with Naruto, but has put his desire for peace as the priority. He has demonstrated his ability to realise he wasn't glad whilst alone, and appreciate Naruto trying to be the for him, but still wants to seek his own way of achieving peace. This implies Talk no jutsu and whatever else people believe will end this fight is right out the window, because he has given in to bringing peace to the world and learned to push his own feelings and emotions aside.

#Inb4NarutoIsTheTrueHero

 

[BLAZE]

He is Anti Hero currently[going by current chp]

 

[Pragmatic]

Perfect thread

 

[take it easy]

After fast reading i understood that you don't get Naruto's point.

Naruto wants to create peace by not allowing people to die, a notion which is laughable in a realistic perspective.

lmao. XD XD XD.

 

[BLAZE]

After fast reading i understood that you don't get Naruto's point.



lmao. XD XD XD.

Explain What Naruto wants pls

 

[TheVillain]

He is Anti Hero currently[going by current chp]

Anti Villain he is

 

[Young Vongola]

There have never been any villains in this series besides Gato and part 1 Orochimaru.

 

[BLAZE]

Anti Villain he is

U can say dat

 

[TheVillain]

U can say dat

Of course I can say dat

 

[Gagster]

First of, let's look at the definition of 'villain';

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

Its connotations always indicate evil intent. However, saying Sasuke has evil intent, when his ultimate goal is 'Revolution' in order to bring peace to the world, is repugnant. People claim Naruto is the moral, resolute and ethically acceptable individual. What people don't asceratin, is that Naruto's naive way of thinking will cause just as much harm, if not greater harm, than Sasuke's methodological way of achieving his goal. You cannot achieve a more extensive form of peace without sacrifice. There will always be potential for desperate revenge to the one's who have lost their loved one's, and it is within human nature, to ascribe blame to a particular person, group, etc. This is the cause of all the war's that have occurred in the Naruto world's past, and will continue to be this way as long as people who have caused chaos are prevalent. Hence, Sasuke appointing blame to the Gokage, and then ridding of them, would allow the people a to feel sense of 'justice' from the one's who were the roots of their desolation.

On the other hand, Naruto is seen as the 'good guy' who has the power to bring peace among the populace. However, when questioning the repercussions of Naruto's temporary peace attainment, one can see the 'bigger picture'. Naruto bringing absolute peace to the world is more improbable than Sasuke having a change of heart and becoming truly villainous. Naruto wants to create peace by not allowing people to die, a notion which is laughable in a realistic perspective. Where will all the people's hatreds go? Naruto making Sasuke's hatred go away (which is unlikely, seeing as its intention is good willed) doesn't transpire into everyone else's hatred being converted to love.

All in all, Sasuke's concept of peace is much more realistic and efficacious than Naruto's ingenuous and naive dogma. He has shown the ability to appreciate his friendship with Naruto, but has put his desire for peace as the priority. He has demonstrated his ability to realise he wasn't glad whilst alone, and appreciate Naruto trying to be the for him, but still wants to seek his own way of achieving peace. This implies Talk no jutsu and whatever else people believe will end this fight is right out the window, because he has given in to bringing peace to the world and learned to push his own feelings and emotions aside.

#Inb4NarutoIsTheTrueHero

You soloed your own thread with that picture.
"a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot"

 

[V h o]

So this is yet another to bash Naruto goals and call it a "temporary peace" thread.... smh

 

[Unbiased King]

I'm confused.

Are you saying Sasuke isn't a villain or that since his conception of the means to peace is far more realistic, he is actually a hero, or at least more of one than Naruto in that Sasuke's means will be successful?

I was expecting you (from the title of your thread) to make the case as to why Sasuke isn't a villain and quite honestly, I'm more convinced that he is one after reading your thread.

 

[paratise]

He Is an antogonist not a villain.

He simply has a different perspective from protantogonist who is a good guy, that does not mean he is the bad guy. Two "good guys" can have opposing views for the sake of peace.

 

[Kαmi]

People just don't get it man. Sasuke is setting all of his desires aside for the world. A similar fashion to his older brother. He's doing what Itachi did on a grander scale and intends to be completely open about it. It may create hate the same way Itachi did but just as Itachi before, his intentions is nothing but good. While Itachi wanted what was best for Konoha, Sasuke is making a sacrifice of himself for the world. Not by dying obviously, but by shouldering the hate for only towards him. And eliminating it for other things, trying to fix other problems the best he can. He realizes he is not perfect nor a saint and that he will naturally gather hate. But that doesn't make him a villain. Just means he's not some hero, which is fine since it's not his intentions to be a hero.

This is the most selfless thing Sasuke has done. He's not even thinking of his clan anymore. And so far, he has an efficient and more lasting peace plan than what I've seen with others that isn't too flawed. Sure you can say it's morally wrong and that Sasuke is not a person who should judge others but as the man himself said, he doesn't care what you think of him. In the end, it's what he feels needs to be done. That is, until he learns a better way.

 

[frozen5]

sasuke: focuses all the hate on himself.. kill a bunch of people.. dies.. world back where it started..

naruto: lives entire life thinking people will magicaly change.. dies... world back to where it started

you can bable all you want about selflessness and realisticness and childishness but yea they both just stupid and useless..

madara had the right way.. 90% of people are stupid and useless just let them live in a dream...

 

[Apêx1]

You soloed your own thread with that picture.
"a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot"

1. action or intervention, especially such as to produce a particular effect.
"canals carved by the agency of running water"
synonyms: action, activity, means, effect, influence, force, power, vehicle, medium More

Evil action to produce peace. But as I said earlier, claiming Sasuke starting a revolution and going against Naruto results in an evil action is completely subjective, and people seem not to realise this. Sasuke being a villain is completely subjective, there is no objective perspective to this, yet NB treats it as such. So I am clarifying the fact Sasuke isn't a villain, subjectively.

I'm confused.

Are you saying Sasuke isn't a villain or that since his conception of the means to peace is far more realistic, he is actually a hero, or at least more of one than Naruto in that Sasuke's means will be successful?

I was expecting you (from the title of your thread) to make the case as to why Sasuke isn't a villain and quite honestly, I'm more convinced that he is one after reading your thread.

Once again.. It leads to the aphorism "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" or in this case, "revolutionary." Don't see how you came to that conclusion, seeing how my thread couldn't possibly imply he was even more of a villain than what you thought he was prior to reading.

People just don't get it man. Sasuke is setting all of his desires aside for the world. A similar fashion to his older brother. He's doing what Itachi did on a grander scale and intends to be completely open about it. It may create hate the same way Itachi did but just as Itachi before, his intentions is nothing but good. While Itachi wanted what was best for Konoha, Sasuke is making a sacrifice of himself for the world. Not by dying obviously, but by shouldering the hate for only towards him. And eliminating it for other things, trying to fix other problems the best he can. He realizes he is not perfect nor a saint and that he will naturally gather hate. But that doesn't make him a villain. Just means he's not some hero, which is fine since it's not his intentions to be a hero.

This is the most selfless thing Sasuke has done. He's not even thinking of his clan anymore. And so far, he has an efficient and more lasting peace plan than what I've seen with others that isn't too flawed. Sure you can say it's morally wrong and that Sasuke is not a person who should judge others but as the man himself said, he doesn't care what you think of him. In the end, it's what he feels needs to be done. That is, until he learns a better way.

Agreed man, people don't think much, they just go along with everyone else is saying, and limits thinking out of the box in many scenarios, this being an example of such.

 

[Unbiased King]

Once again.. It leads to the aphorism "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" or in this case, "revolutionary." Don't see how you came to that conclusion, seeing how my thread couldn't possibly imply he was even more of a villain than what you thought he was prior to reading.

I'm not saying that Sasuke is a bad guy; in fact I completely agree that any malice towards Sasuke's intentions on the grounds of selfish desires aren't concrete as Sasuke is, perhaps for the first time, is being selfless. It would only be in the context of Naruto's intentions and goals could Sasuke be considered a bad guy, and even then it would seem an ill-placed description.

But the thing is we are talking about villains here and it is you, not I, that defines villain as:

1. a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel. 2. a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot.

A case can be made for both definitions of villain in Sasuke:

Spoiler

1. a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel.

If we agree that killing is always cruel and malicious, except in the cases of self defense, then killing the Gokages and the tailed beasts outside of self defense would make one cruel and malicious. The same is true for being involved or devoted to wickedness, where although the conclusion is peace, the means are not.

Since Sasuke can therefore be defined as a cruelly malicious person who is devoted to wickedness or crime, he must then be a villain, once again by your definition.

Spoiler

2. a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot.

To understand this, we will have to accept that Naruto is always the good agent; essentially, everyone who Naruto doesn't agree with is labelled as 'bad' or 'evil.' In the manga, Naruto is portrayed as the just and rational one, whereas Sasuke is seen as the opposite, radical, both in the SO6P's reaction to Sasuke's answer and Naruto's remembrance of Itachi's words and ideals.

When Naruto, who is always an agent of good, is met with opposition, that opposition is always represented as an evil in the story. Therefore, in addition to the premises of Sasuke being cruel and malicious, the Sauce is an evil agent in the plot and hence meets your provided definition of a villain.

 

[Apêx1]

I'm not saying that Sasuke is a bad guy; in fact I completely agree that any malice towards Sasuke's intentions on the grounds of selfish desires aren't concrete as Sasuke is, perhaps for the first time, is being selfless. It would only be in the context of Naruto's intentions and goals could Sasuke be considered a bad guy, and even then it would seem an ill-placed description.

But the thing is we are talking about villains here and it is you, not I, that defines villain as:

Fair enough. @bold You don't seem to realise people ignore this fact

A case can be made for both definitions of villain in Sasuke:

Spoiler

If we agree that killing is always cruel and malicious, except in the cases of self defense, then killing the Gokages and the tailed beasts outside of self defense would make one cruel and malicious. The same is true for being involved or devoted to wickedness, where although the conclusion is peace, the means are not.

Since Sasuke can therefore be defined as a cruelly malicious person who is devoted to wickedness or crime, he must then be a villain, once again by your definition.

No, because a cruelly malicious person is one who doesn't intend to achieve peace.
Malicious: "characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm."
Sasuke isn't malicious because his desire is peace, only his means of achieving peace can possibly be seen as cruel, the final outcome by virtue. So no, by this very definition he is not a villain.

Spoiler

To understand this, we will have to accept that Naruto is always the good agent; essentially, everyone who Naruto doesn't agree with is labelled as 'bad' or 'evil.' In the manga, Naruto is portrayed as the just and rational one, whereas Sasuke is seen as the opposite, radical, both in the SO6P's reaction to Sasuke's answer and Naruto's remembrance of Itachi's words and ideals.

When Naruto, who is always an agent of good, is met with opposition, that opposition is always represented as an evil in the story. Therefore, in addition to the premises of Sasuke being cruel and malicious, the Sauce is an evil agent in the plot and hence meets your provided definition of a villain.

He isn't portrayed as rational at all, simply the most innocent dimwit around. Rikudo's belief is that Sasuke will repeat what Madara did no matter what. But it is wrong, because Rikudo is trying to convert hate into love, whereas Sasuke is trying to take all the hate and make it die when he does, hence burdening the hate for the better of the world. There is a big difference with Sasuke facing reality head-on and Madara trying to run away from it necause if a lack of alternative options (to his knowledge). So no, Sasuke isn't the cruelly malicious person you think he is as his ultime goal is peace via cruel means, rather than blind faith and high hopes. Sasuke is portrayed as evil simply because people don't understand his life and intentions. Orochimaru is a villain, he kills for amusement, Sasuke kills a few for the greater good. Answer this, would you allow 5 Ebola patients to live, if Ebola was hypothetically transmitted through the air, despite the potential deaths of billions due to these minute 5 people? I'd think not, same goes for Sasuke, he is sacrificing people for the world's greater good, justifiably.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

your argument stems around some arbitrary definition of the word villain.

Meaningless fact: the original definition of "Villain" was "Someone who is bound to a Villa", which means "A guy who isn't a knight" or more properly, "Peasant Scum".


Face it. sasuke squashed someone into goo. if that doesnt make him a villain, i dont know what does.

 

[Romy9]

This thread is legit only if you don't include real life morals and ethics when you discuss this story.