[VS] Itachi vs Zabuza

Bogard

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Location: Kanabi bridge
Distance: 50meters
Mindset: Kill(Zabuza fights like during the second fight against Kakashi in part1)
Knowledge: Zabuza knows Itachi is a sharingan user. Itachi knows Zabuza is a kirigakure missing nin
Restriction: MS

Who wins?
 

Benjamin King

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You must hate Zabuza to pin him against Itachi, T Bogard. Itachi low diffs him.​
 

Benjamin King

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There is no hate in it. How does Itachi win?

-He can wave Jutsu at a speed which P1 Kakashi can barely track. [ ] [ ] Without Sharingan, Zabuza has no way to predict what Itachi will do.
-His Taijutsu is on par with KCM Naruto. [ ]
-He can copy Zabuza's arsenal with the filled requirement; Sharingan and Chakra reserve.

Even you must believe Zabuza is no match.​
 

Bogard

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-He can wave Jutsu at a speed which P1 Kakashi can barely track. [ ] [ ] Without Sharingan, Zabuza has no way to predict what Itachi will do.
-His Taijutsu is on par with KCM Naruto. [ ]
-He can copy Zabuza's arsenal with the filled requirement; Sharingan and Chakra reserve.

Even you must believe Zabuza is no match.​
How does that help if he can't see Zabuza in the mist? Itachi uses these clones in offensive manoeuvers but inside Zabuza just the fact of not being capable to see the opponent/identify his location puts you on the pressure/defensive rather quickly and even lower your reflexes [ ] Zabuza had the advantage to be capable to perfectly fight in the mist [ ]

Zabuza could also send water clones to feint Itachi without him even knowing considering that inside the mist the sharingan precognition won't help to see the opponents attacks
 

ChocolateVanilla

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Itachi's only way of winning is an outright blitz from the start, and with a 50M starting distance, I don't see that happenig.
 

Bogard

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Itachi's only way of winning is an outright blitz from the start, and with a 50M starting distance, I don't see that happenig.
Ah seems that you see the point of the thread Lol. But i actually think Itachi can win even without blitzing him from the start. He has a way to counter-play Zabuza's mist, but i'm waiting for other people arguments before i give my reasoning behind it
 

wael reda

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Since zabuza knows itachi 's ginjutsu and since he can fight with his eyes closed ,he may wins since itachi can't see him inside the mist
 
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wael reda

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Ah seems that you see the point of the thread Lol. But i actually think Itachi can win even without blitzing him from the start. He has a way to counter-play Zabuza's mist, but i'm waiting for other people arguments before i give my reasoning behind it

Yes ,I think itachi may can fight inside the mist ,he can spread his Crows around himself as a barrier ,if zabuza tried to go through this barrier ,itachi will locate zabuza and attack him ,alright?
Then itachi may wins high diff
 

FloriGlori

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Zabuza doesn't stand a single chance. Obviously.

Itachi's Genjutsu and swift handseal speed would probably suffice to take out Zabuza before he even gets a chance to use Kirigakure no Jutsu. But for the sake of argument I'll play along. Even within the thickest mist, Itachi retains the upper hand. What makes Zabuza a threat is his ability to track down his enemies by sound; once that advantage is taken from him, he's just as helpless as his victim. By summoning his crows [ ], Itachi simply covers his own sound: The only thing Zabuza's ears will be able to perceive is cawing and fluttering. By having the lots of them scatter throughout the mist, he's also able to perfectly locate Zabuza. The latter won't be able to move or approach Itachi without the crows noticing; even without moving, they'll eventually get in touch with him. As soon as they discovered him, they'll attack and gather, giving away Zabuza's position. What happens then is up to Itachi; whether he's using Ninjutsu, Genjutsu or even Taijutsu doesn't matter, Zabuza won't be able to escape.

Of course, there's also Kakashi's implication of a truly mastered Sharingan being able to work even better inside the mist [ ], as well as Itachi's own splendid sense of hearing.
 
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Bogard

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Zabuza doesn't stand a single chance. Obviously.

Itachi's Genjutsu and swift Jutsu speed would probably suffice to take out Zabuza before he even gets a chance to use Kirigakure no Jutsu. But for the sake of argument I'll play along. Even within the thickest mist, Itachi retains the upper hand. What makes Zabuza a threat is his ability to track down his enemies by sound; once that advantage is taken from him, he's just as helpless as his victim. By summoning his crows [ ], Itachi simply covers his own sound: The only thing Zabuza's ears will be able to perceive is cawing and fluttering. Furthermore, by having the lots of them scatter throughout the mist, he's able to perfectly locate Zabuza. The latter won't be able to move or approach Itachi without the crows noticing; as soon as they discovered him, they'll gather, giving away Zabuza's position. What happens then is up to Itachi; whether he's using Ninjutsu, Genjutsu or even Taijutsu doesn't matter, Zabuza won't be able to escape.

Of course, there's also Kakashi's implication of a truly mastered Sharingan being able to work even better than his within the mist [ ], as well as Itachi's own splendid sense of hearing.
Kakashi gave that implication before knowing Zabuza could make the mist thicker. Pay attention that at that time the mist wasn't even thick enough to stop Kakashi in copying his jutsus. Rinnegan(Sharingan's evolution) couldn't see through Mei's mist. There is no reason to believe Itachi could

The crow strategy is what i was waiting for, but don't forget one thing. The time the crows gather to give away Zabuza's position, he can change his location anytime. It's not like he would remain in the same place while fighting. Not to mention that if Zabuza were to use water clones, this strategy won't work considering the crows would never identify the real with the original

Like i've said as well, in the mist the reaction speed is slower. Zabuza on the other side like you said can pinpoint locations via sound, and fight accurately. Itachi won't be capable to perform his combos to defeat Zabuza in the mist as well as he normally does because of the pressure of fighting in the mist while not knowing the real location of the opponent/being attacked from everyside without actually knowing said location. It's not as if as well the crows don't have different sounds than ninja movements. Zabuza could perfectly identify Kakashi's movements to Sakura's/Gato's
 

keshav31

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zabuza is a lost soul can't beat itachi even without itachi's MS
 

FloriGlori

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Kakashi gave that implication before knowing Zabuza could make the mist thicker. Pay attention that at that time the mist wasn't even thick enough to stop Kakashi in copying his jutsus
Doesn't matter how thick the mist was at that time - better vision means better vision. When a mastered Sharingan works better inside thin mist, it also works better inside thick mist. Logical, isn't it? Kakashi was, by the way, still able to block a great number of Shuriken at once [ ], which was ascribed to his Sharingan.

Rinnegan(Sharingan's evolution) couldn't see through Mei's mist. There is no reason to believe Itachi could
Which I never claimed.

The crow strategy is what i was waiting for, but don't forget one thing. The time the crows gather to give away Zabuza's position, he can change his location anytime. It's not like he would remain in the same place while fighting.
Neither do the birds; they can simply use their claws to cling to Zabuza. Not to mention that moving is easier said than done while being attacked by a swarm of crows; already a few of them were enough to temporarily stop even EMS Sasuke, whose level is far above Zabuza's. Should he try to move regardless, he'll just run into more of them - you get the idea. Using the crows, Itachi can lay a tight surveillance web working similar to Gaara's sensory sand. Gathering isn't even necessary for them to give away Zabuza's position; if those who discovered him first start cawing, Itachi will know his position immediately. And so will nearby crows, resulting in more and more of them swarming Zabuza. In conclusion, moving is not much of an option. Even a few seconds are enough, considering Itachi's vast fighting pace.

Not to mention that if Zabuza were to use water clones, this strategy won't work considering the crows would never identify the real with the original
Wrong. It doesn't work as perfectly, but it still does in general. If there is more than one Zabuza, the crows will split up; Itachi will be aware of the fact that Zabuza has cloned. He simply replies using his own Mizu Bunshin to go after each one. The crows might even be enough to dispose of the Mizu Bunshin themselves, considering how weak they are; Genin Sasuke defeated 10 of them single-handedly.

In the end, that strategy isn't getting Zabuza anywhere, considering he still won't be able to approach Itachi undetected. Nor is it within the thread's stipulations, considering you determined him to fight like he did against Kakashi. Since he's unaware of Itachi's Kuchiyose, he'd have no reason to actually use Mizu Bunshin; he'd arrogantly believe in his counter to Itachi's Sharingan. If Itachi was to summon the crows while Zabuza was still forming the seals for Kirigakure no Jutsu, he'd not even get a chance to create Bunshin.

Like i've said as well, in the mist the reaction speed is slower.
Don't take that statement out of context; Kakashi said his reactions were hampered because he was unable to see. In conclusion, the same applies to Zabuza, whose eyes are constantly closed. After all, his sense of hearing does not replace his vision. Jiraiya implied that even sensory types are unable to perfectly defend against attacks they're unable to see [ ]. To put it in a nutshell, I don't see your point.


Zabuza on the other side like you said can pinpoint locations via sound, and fight accurately. It's not as if as well the crows don't have different sounds than ninja movements. Zabuza could perfectly identify Kakashi's movements to Sakura's/Gato's
As I've pointed out above, Zabuza isn't fighting as accurately as regular, either. Like I explained various times already, he's not approaching Itachi without being noticed. Your second remark isn't applicable to this situation, considering he roughly knew Sakura's and Gatou's position. Itachi's sounds, if he makes any at all, aren't mixed with those of the crows, they're completely masked by them.

Itachi won't be capable to perform his combos to defeat Zabuza in the mist as well as he normally does because of the pressure of fighting in the mist while not knowing the real location of the opponent/being attacked from everyside without actually knowing said location.
Weak point, considering Itachi is trained to stay calm even in the most bizzare situations [ ]. Thanks to the crows, he will know where Zabuza attacks from; as soon as he has been located, no fancy combinations are needed. Not to mention that Itachi's swift Bunshin feints, instand handseals and fast speed work as perfectly inside the mist as they do outside.
 

Apêx1

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Itachi low diff.
-Crows distract Zabuza while also giving his location away. Crows can assemble and disperse, making them a hard target to defeat.
-Explosive Kage Bunshin scatters the mist to an extent, and allows for traps in the case Zabuza comes close to it.
-Itachi's reaction speeds are beyond Zabuza's comprehension, he reacts to everything Zabuza attempts, if Kakashi could.
 

Benjamin King

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How does that help if he can't see Zabuza in the mist? Itachi uses these clones in offensive manoeuvers but inside Zabuza just the fact of not being capable to see the opponent/identify his location puts you on the pressure/defensive rather quickly and even lower your reflexes [ ] Zabuza had the advantage to be capable to perfectly fight in the mist [ ]

Zabuza could also send water clones to feint Itachi without him even knowing considering that inside the mist the sharingan precognition won't help to see the opponents attacks

Kakashi already located and sensed Zabuza just fine in the mist. And you shouldn't underestimate Itachi's sensing; he was able to feel Orochimaru and fight him while blind.

Suiton Bunshin is created from the user's Chakra at 10% power. Itachi will notice the difference in Chakra Flow between the clones and real Zabuza.​
 

sasori345

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Itachi win still, his reaction speed will do the job, Zabuza has to come close range to touch him.
As soon as they are close range, Itachi will put him in genjutsu just like when he attempted to use genjutsu on Kakashi's clone.
But Zabuza use clones too so it can fails too_Only way for Itachi to win is close range using his speed because he has no way to detect Zabuza unless if he's a sensor but i'm not sure.
 

Beans2

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Itachi mid dif. Add Haku to make it fair
 

Demonic.

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Itachi wins.

If Itachi can react to Kakashi popping out of the ground he can react to this clown that's slower.
 

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Doesn't matter how thick the mist was at that time - better vision means better vision. When a mastered Sharingan works better inside thin mist, it also works better inside thick mist. Logical, isn't it? Kakashi was, by the way, still able to block a great number of Shuriken at once [ ], which was ascribed to his Sharingan.
He luckily blocked those shurikens because he was miraculously watching his back at the exact same moment. Obviously Sharingan could still help to show close meter objects better. And i don't see where a slightly better vision would change anything

Which I never claimed.
Okay

Neither do the birds; they can simply use their claws to cling to Zabuza. Not to mention that moving is easier said than done while being attacked by a swarm of crows; already a few of them were enough to temporarily stop even EMS Sasuke, whose level is far above Zabuza's. Should he try to move regardless, he'll just run into more of them - you get the idea. Using the crows, Itachi can lay a tight surveillance web working similar to Gaara's sensory sand. Gathering isn't even necessary for them to give away Zabuza's position; if those who discovered him first start cawing, Itachi will know his position immediately. And so will nearby crows, resulting in more and more of them swarming Zabuza. In conclusion, moving is not much of an option. Even a few seconds are enough, considering Itachi's vast fighting pace.
They cling on him to do what next? It's not like by doing that, Itachi would know his location better unless you think Itachi is somehow connected to his crows eyes via network or something, something i don't think has been showed in the manga. It doesn't work like Gaara's sensory sand that reacts to his chakra on contact, so the example isn't that great i believe. So how will he know exactly if one of his crows identify Zabuza's location without actually going back to Itachi?

Wrong. It doesn't work as perfectly, but it still does in general. If there is more than one Zabuza, the crows will split up; Itachi will be aware of the fact that Zabuza has cloned. He simply replies using his own Mizu Bunshin to go after each one. The crows might even be enough to dispose of the Mizu Bunshin themselves, considering how weak they are; Genin Sasuke defeated 10 of them single-handedly.
It's not like Itachi ever displayed mizu bunshin. To be capable to do that he would have to copy Zabuza's movement first, something impossible inside the mist. Not to mention that even if the crows know their location and somehow go back to tell it to Itachi, it's not like the mizu bunshins won't be moving themselves, so in the end it will come back to square one, with a Itachi still not knowing how to pinpoint them. Zabuza showed the capacity to completely vanish from Kakashi's sight despite being 5meters infront of him an instant earlier. Like i've said, it's not like they will remain stabile and i disagree with the crows being capable to take them out. Yes they weren't that strong, but just one of Zabuza's water clone was capable to deal with enter team7 bar Kakashi in the first fight. Sure they weren't as strong as later on, but Sasuke at the very least already displayed good skills enough puting above mere crows, not making me believe such mere crows will be enough to take them out like you mention

Besides my strategy around the mizu bunshin isn't really to take Itachi out. I know they are weak, but they could be good for diversions
In the end, that strategy isn't getting Zabuza anywhere, considering he still won't be able to approach Itachi undetected. Nor is it within the thread's stipulations, considering you determined him to fight like he did against Kakashi. Since he's unaware of Itachi's Kuchiyose, he'd have no reason to actually use Mizu Bunshin; he'd arrogantly believe in his counter to Itachi's Sharingan. If Itachi was to summon the crows while Zabuza was still forming the seals for Kirigakure no Jutsu, he'd not even get a chance to create Bunshin.
Well with the mizu bunshin acting as diversions i don't see why Zabuza couldn't silent kill Itachi. He managed to feint Kakashi with that manoeuver(someone who feinted Itachi later on, on 2occasions) by using a 3steps water clone plan. I did put him in the second fight against Kakashi mindset, but it's not like he suddenly forgot his skills. He used that plan against Kakashi during the first fight. I don't see why he won't try the same method if needed


Don't take that statement out of context; Kakashi said his reactions were hampered because he was unable to see. In conclusion, the same applies to Zabuza, whose eyes are constantly closed. After all, his sense of hearing does not replace his vision. Jiraiya implied that even sensory types are unable to perfectly defend against attacks they're unable to see [ ]. To put it in a nutshell, I don't see your point.
Don't think like this. Zabuza isn't like a normal ninja. Zabuza didn't seem to have problems fighting eyes close. It's his fighting style. The genius of silent killing, expert in fighting in the mist where the visibility is close to zero, so Zabuza won't be as handicaped as Itachi, not at all. It's like Gai is an expert in fighting while looking at people's body movements. It all depends on fighting style adaptation

Weak point, considering Itachi is trained to stay calm even in the most bizzare situations [ ]. Thanks to the crows, he will know where Zabuza attacks from; as soon as he has been located, no fancy combinations are needed. Not to mention that Itachi's swift Bunshin feints, instand handseals and fast speed work as perfectly inside the mist as they do outside.
Kakashi is a very calm and composed ninja himself, but he was getting frustrated just by staying inside the mist. Sure Itachi is a calm ninja, but how do you think he would react just by staying in a mist not knowing how to find and defeat an opponent the more the time past. Sure it becomes frustrating. I know however that it won't impact much. It would depend on how you exactly view that crow strategy because for me the way you presented it doesn't give a clear advantage in Itachi finding Zabuza and defeating him
 

NSUNSR

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This is how the fight goes. Zabuza uses Hiden Mist Jutsu. Itachi gets out of the mist while also making an explosive clone. Zabuzu cuts through the clone, which explodes and kills him.
 
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