[VS] Nagato and Itachi vs. EMS Madara

makosheva7

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NAGATO AND ITACHI

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VS.

EMS MADARA

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Nagato is healthy. Itachi is healthy.

Starting distance: 75 m
Location: Rocky Battlefield
Restrictions: Kyuubi for Madara
Intel: Itachi knows about basic MS Sharingan techs, but not about EMS techs. Madara knows about Uchiha techs.

Mindset: IN CHARACTER


Scenario 2:

Madara has the Kyuubi under his control
 

KidGamer65

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Itachi becomes a non factor the moment Perfect Susanoo comes out. He can't tank its attacks, he can't evade its attacks, nor can he damage the construct. Nagato can block PS swing, once. Then during his cooldown, the second blade comes down and Itachi and Nagato die a terrible death.

Madara mid diff.
 

LustyLover

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Itachi becomes a non factor the moment Perfect Susanoo comes out. He can't tank its attacks, he can't evade its attacks, nor can he damage the construct. Nagato can block PS swing, once. Then during his cooldown, the second blade comes down and Itachi and Nagato die a terrible death.

Madara mid diff.

Wouldn't they be able to fly above PS?
 

QdonEms

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Itachi becomes a non factor the moment Perfect Susanoo comes out. He can't tank its attacks, he can't evade its attacks, nor can he damage the construct. Nagato can block PS swing, once. Then during his cooldown, the second blade comes down and Itachi and Nagato die a terrible death.

Madara mid diff.

XD oh gawd.
 

LustyLover

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Before he cuts them down? No. Though how would that help anyway?

You sure? I'm sure Itachi could maintain his shield for a few seconds to hit the skies.

Easier to evade PS strikes.

Just exploring options is all. Though, imo, Madara should win unless they have a way to get through PS.
 

KidGamer65

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You sure? I'm sure Itachi could maintain his shield for a few seconds to hit the skies.

You mean the shield that has nothing but hyperbole supporting its power? Yata isn't tanking PS. Though even if we say it can, Madara simply keeps hammering at them, Itachi's Susanoo drops due to stamina issues, then Madara finishes them both off as they still have no way of hurting it.

Easier to evade PS strikes.

Not really. Its range extends much farther than the blade itself, and they don't have the speed to outright evade then.
 

LustyLover

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You mean the shield that has nothing but hyperbole supporting its power? Yata isn't tanking PS. Though even if we say it can, Madara simply keeps hammering at them, Itachi's Susanoo drops due to stamina issues, then Madara finishes them both off as they still have no way of hurting it.

Since it's supported by both the databook and manga and has yet to be disproven, yes, I'll believe it. Itachi only needs to sit there for a few seconds with it until Nagato summons the two birds which would take approximately two to three seconds. Itachi can definitely wait out that long.



Not really. Its range extends much farther than the blade itself, and they don't have the speed to outright evade then.

Agreed. While I believe Madara wins this, I doubt the blades would be fast enough to outright blitz Itachi, though.

Just thought I'd add that once in a Genjutsu Susano'o will be deactivated. If Madara doesn't break his Genjutsu fast enough Nagato would kill him with chakra missiles.
 
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KidGamer65

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Since it's supported by both the databook and manga and has yet to be disproven, yes, I'll believe it. Itachi only needs to sit there for a few seconds with it until Nagato summons the two birds which would take approximately two to three seconds. Itachi can definitely wait out that long.

Yet to be disproven=/=Fact. Hyperbole is hyperbole however. Databook and Manga both saying it doesn't make it any more valid. PS was stated to smash all things in the universe, and everything the blade has hit, has been cut. Does PS smash all things in the universe? Nope.


No, cause even when he takes flight, he won't be evading PS slashes. So they'll need someone to protect them from attacks, that'd be Yata Mirror, operating under the assumption that is blocks every attack.






Agreed. While I believe Madara wins this, I doubt the blades would be fast enough to outright blitz Itachi, though.
Sasuke's EMS pre cog let him tag Juubito with a slower and weaker Susanoo. Itachi isn't going to evade them.

Just thought I'd add that once in a Genjutsu Susano'o will be deactivated. If Madara doesn't break his Genjutsu fast enough Nagato would kill him with chakra missiles.

Itachi isn't making eye contact with Madara while he's on top of PS.
 

LustyLover

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Yet to be disproven=/=Fact. Hyperbole is hyperbole however. Databook and Manga both saying it doesn't make it any more valid. PS was stated to smash all things in the universe, and everything the blade has hit, has been cut. Does PS smash all things in the universe? Nope.

Redudant because it's already been disproven; it failed to pierce Hashirama's Mokuton when it grabbed his sword. It also said one swing would be able to smash all things in the universe yet failed to in one swing and instead sliced some mountains, so that disproves it as well. If it's been hailed to be able to do something and has failed to be contradicted then there's nothing to do but accept it. Not doing so would be going against the manga itself with no proof to counter it.


No, cause even when he takes flight, he won't be evading PS slashes. So they'll need someone to protect them from attacks, that'd be Yata Mirror, operating under the assumption that is blocks every attack. Sasuke's EMS pre cog let him tag Juubito with a slower and weaker Susanoo. Itachi isn't going to evade them.

@Bold, what does that mean?

Itachi isn't making eye contact with Madara while he's on top of PS.

He can remotely use Genjutsu via Shisui's MS implanted in his crow and send it towards Madara.


Just so I'm clear, I agree with your premise; I agree that Madara would win with medium difficulties. They'd be on defense the entire time with literally no reliable offense. They'd be dealt a lethal blow eventually.
 
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KidGamer65

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Redudant because it's already been disproven; it failed to pierce Hashirama's Mokuton when it grabbed his sword. It also said one swing would be able to smash all things in the universe yet failed to in one swing and instead sliced some mountains, so that disproves it as well. If it's been hailed to be able to do something and has failed to be contradicted then there's nothing to do but accept it. Not doing so would be going against the manga itself with no proof to counter it

It didn't hit the hand. He caught it. Everytime his PS blade successfully hit a Mokuton construct, or anything else, it was cut. No exceptions. That doesn't mean it can cut everything in the universe.

@bold: One slash smashing all things in the universe means that anything it slashes in this universe will be destroyed. Not sure where you got, the whole universe would be destroyed from.


Agreeing that Yata Mirror blocks all attacks is a logical fallacy. No Limits Fallacy. You are using a hyperbolic statement and basing Yata Mirror's power off of that even though there is literally nothing else in this entire manga that supports it blocking all attacks. So many hyperbolic statements made in the DB, and each one has turned out to be false. I have zero reason to believe Yata Mirror is special.


@Bold, what does that mean?
Sasuke's EMS precognition was good enough to let him force Juubito to block. If Juubito couldn't outright evade like he was doing before, then Itachi isn't going to outright evade it either.




He can remotely use Genjutsu via Shisui's MS implanted in his crow.

At this point of his life, he doesn't have the crow, he gave it to Naruto. Not to mention his crow gets torn to bits if it gets within 100 meters of Madara's PS.
 

NSUNSR

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Itachi is a non factor. Madara still beats Nagato. With Kurama, Nagato stands 0 chance.
 

LustyLover

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It didn't hit the hand. He caught it. Everytime his PS blade successfully hit a Mokuton construct, or anything else, it was cut. No exceptions. That doesn't mean it can cut everything in the universe.

@bold: One slash smashing all things in the universe means that anything it slashes in this universe will be destroyed. Not sure where you got, the whole universe would be destroyed from.

Yeah, I reread that. The way it was worded leaves it open to two interpretations that could really be seen as either way, so I didn't realize it as first.

However, a PS slash still failed to pierce an object:

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It's disproven.

Sasuke's EMS precognition was good enough to let him force Juubito to block. If Juubito couldn't outright evade like he was doing before, then Itachi isn't going to outright evade it either.


Sasuke's Susano'o was enhanced by Juugo's Senjutsu; his striking speed reflects that. Its speed would be faster than Madara's regular PS slashes.


Agreeing that Yata Mirror blocks all attacks is a logical fallacy. No Limits Fallacy. You are using a hyperbolic statement and basing Yata Mirror's power off of that even though there is literally nothing else in this entire manga that supports it blocking all attacks. So many hyperbolic statements made in the DB, and each one has turned out to be false. I have zero reason to believe Yata Mirror is special.

Manga and databook support it. Nowhere was it implied nor stated it was a hyperbole. As annoying as it could be, until prove otherwise its statement is fact.


At this point of his life, he doesn't have the crow, he gave it to Naruto. Not to mention his crow gets torn to bits if it gets within 100 meters of Madara's PS.

I don't see why he can't get his crow. Itachi still possessed his arsenal prior to giving Naruto the crow so he has it here. If Madara tries to strike the crow down Nagato pushes his blades back with ST.
 
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LustyLover

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Itachi is a non factor. Madara still beats Nagato. With Kurama, Nagato stands 0 chance.

Kurama's restricted.

Imo team two wins. I don't even know why I'm debating tbh, but does Nagato get the Gedo Mazo?
 

KidGamer65

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Yeah, I reread that. The way it was worded leaves it open to two interpretations that could really be seen as either way, so I didn't realize it as first.

However, a PS slash still failed to pierce an object:

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It's disproven.

Kaguya destroyed it before hit her, she didn't tank it. Otherwise there would have been no reason to dodge . Not to mention even Naruto's chakra arm cut her.



Sasuke's Susano'o was enhanced by Juugo's Senjutsu; his striking speed reflects that. Its speed would be faster than Madara's regular PS slashes.

In what universe is a V3 Susanoo enhanced by Senjutsu faster than Perfect Susanoo, which is two levels above V3 Susanoo? Not to mention Itachi is light years slower than Obito is, so it doesn't even need to be as fast as Sasuke's strike.


Manga and databook support it. Nowhere was it implied nor stated it was a hyperbole. As annoying as it could be, until prove otherwise its statement is fact.
The fact its worded "Repels allattacks" automatically means that its a hyperbolic statement. And it falls under the No Limits Fallacy since you, the wording the DB and Manga gave, are implying that it has no limits, which is a hyperbole in itself.



I don't see why he can't get his crow. Itachi still possessed his arsenal prior to giving Naruto the crow so he has it here. If Madara tries to strike the crow down Nagato pushes his blades back with ST.

Then during the cool down its GG Crow.
 

LustyLover

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Kaguya destroyed it before hit her, she didn't tank it. Otherwise there would have been no reason to dodge . Not to mention even Naruto's chakra arm cut her.

That's not the point I am attempting to convey. The fact is that when Kaguya's chakra arm collided with his PS slash, the PS slash failed to break through it and was instead overwhelmed; it means that Madara's statement was disproven whereas Itachi's remains as a fact.

In what universe is a V3 Susanoo enhanced by Senjutsu faster than Perfect Susanoo, which is two levels above V3 Susanoo? Not to mention Itachi is light years slower than Obito is, so it doesn't even need to be as fast as Sasuke's strike.

Minato's reaction speed is on par with the likes of Tobirama, someone whom responded to Juubito mid-blitz; Bee's reaction speed stalemated with Minato's and Itachi's proved to equal Bee's when they fought each other. If Itachi can react to Juubito whom responded to a Susano'o slash then he can replicate the feat.

The fact its worded "Repels allattacks" automatically means that its a hyperbolic statement. And it falls under the No Limits Fallacy since you, the wording the DB and Manga gave, are implying that it has no limits, which is a hyperbole in itself.

Until I see a manga scan contradicting it I'm going to have to accept it, hyperbole or not, which it isn't. The databook goes into further detail explaining as to how and why it negates all attacks and they don't word it in that fashion.

Then during the cool down its GG Crow.

The swords would be recovering from the recoil of the ST. By the time they're fit to slash at it Shisui's eye will already be in range.
 

makosheva7

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Kurama's restricted.

Imo team two wins. I don't even know why I'm debating tbh, but does Nagato get the Gedo Mazo?

he gets whatever he needs and is capable of getting.
 

KidGamer65

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That's not the point I am attempting to convey. The fact is that when Kaguya's chakra arm collided with his PS slash, the PS slash failed to break through it and was instead overwhelmed; it means that Madara's statement was disproven whereas Itachi's remains as a fact.

Except you don't know if that is what happened. All we see is PS go in, and then come out destroyed. Naruto punched through those chakra arms with his enhanced strength, and stalemated them with his own chakra arms, briefly. One isn't deflecting a PS slash. Not a chance.



Minato's reaction speed is on par with the likes of Tobirama, someone whom responded to Juubito mid-blitz;
Base Minato? Where's the proof?


Bee's reaction speed stalemated with Minato's

Uh, no, it didn't. B managed to predict Minato coming after him, thus set up his sword appropriately. That doesn't even begin to translate into their reaction speeds stalemating.

and Itachi's proved to equal Bee's when they fought each other.
Once again, no, it didn't. Itachi evading B's seven sword strike doesn't mean his reactions are on par with B's. It means his reactions are fast enough to evade B's attacks, which would translate to striking speed. Not reaction speed. Doesn't matter if it did though since B's reactions have never once been demonstrated to be on par with Minato's, and Minato (Base) has no feat that compares to Tobirama's.

If Itachi can react to Juubito whom responded to a Susano'o slash then he can replicate the feat.

Except Itachi can't react to Juubito.




Until I see a manga scan contradicting it I'm going to have to accept it, hyperbole or not, which it isn't. The databook goes into further detail explaining as to how and why it negates all attacks and they don't word it in that fashion.
Its a logical fallacy, so using it as an argument isn't going to fly. Its that simple. The DB explaining how it does it, doesn't mean that it can do it to every single attack.

The swords would be recovering from the recoil of the ST. By the time they're fit to slash at it Shisui's eye will already be in range.

1. He has two swords, and only needs to attack with one at time. That negates this.

2. Recoil from ST would be like what? A few seconds? PS is as tall as a Mountain. Itachi's crow isn't flying across a Mountain height's distance in a few seconds.
With the Gedo Mazo here then Nagato has a sure way of combating PS.

Gedo throws out attacks weaker than Bijuu Dama that didn't scratch PS, and it has defensive feats that lead me to believe it'll tank a PS slash, so its just one more thing that gets obliterated by Madara's blade.
 
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