[Proof] Sasuke may be right.

[TrollKing]

Yes and? I don't know why people want to blame Hashirama and Ashura for everyone as if they can control human nature. Meanwhile both or at least Hashirama made life better for people.

I'm against the corrupted system that they support which they shouldn't be. It happened dated as far back as ashura era. They might try to make life easier for people, but their system is not working.

When the law is corrupted, do you blame the citizens or the government?

 

[V h o]

I'm against the corrupted system that they support which they shouldn't be. It happened dated as far back as ashura era. They might try to make life easier for people, but their system is not working.

When the law is corrupted, do you blame the citizens or the government?

Explain to me how it is worse than before? Is the entire system corrupt for someone like Danzo, because eliminating the system doesn't eliminate another Danzo from being born.

Edit: And how is the system not working? It has done what its goal was.

 

[TrollKing]

Explain to me how it is worse than before? Is the entire system corrupt for someone like Danzo, because eliminating the system doesn't eliminate another Danzo from being born.

Number 1 thing I can think of is that ashura and hashi is too soft to be a leader, they tolerate someone not supposed to be tolerate. The entire system compose of people like danzo(of different levels). Ashura hashi allow their emotion to dictate their judgement, that is a very bad trait a leader can have. A leader has to have good judgement and intelligence. If a leader lacks both, the leader would certainly be manipulated by people or simply by the system

 

[V h o]

Number 1 thing I can think of is that ashura and hashi is too soft to be a leader, they tolerate someone not supposed to be tolerate. The entire system compose of people like danzo(of different levels). Ashura hashi allow their emotion to dictate their judgement, that is a very bad trait a leader can have. A leader has to have good judgement and intelligence. If a leader lacks both, the leader would certainly be manipulated by people or simply by the system

Can you name another Danzo since the system is so full of these Danzo like characters? Secondly tell me how Hashirama was such a emotional wreck where his emotions dictated his judgement? You're making a lot of claims with no form of proof to back it up.

 

[TrollKing]

Can you name another Danzo since the system is so full of these Danzo like characters? Secondly tell me how Hashirama was such a emotional wreck where his emotions dictated his judgement? You're making a lot of claims with no form of proof to back it up.

Danzo is a just a typical type of guy, most might not go all the way to kill whole clan, but most will simply create strife. Hashi hasn't demonstrated any quality trait of leader except good heart. He created konoha so that he can protect his people just like any village(fail system). He should have solve whatever he had between him and madara than to go extreme(let him free to go or kill him).

 

[V h o]

Danzo is a just a typical type of guy, most might not go all the way to kill whole clan, but most will simply create strife. Hashi hasn't demonstrated any quality trait of leader except good heart. He created konoha so that he can protect his people just like any village(fail system). He should have solve whatever he had between him and madara than to go extreme(let him free to go or kill him).

So you can't even name another Danzo but claim there are so many? How is it Hashirama's fault for who believes what? Yet again you still can't tell me how Hashirama's was a bad hokage, I mean he was even praised as the god of shinobi and picked by the people, yet you claim he was bad yet again.

Hashirama created the concept of a village, there were no villages prior to this and other lands decided to follow suit behind this. Hashirama's leaf village had many other people from various lands that he welcomed in. Also if Hashirama wanted to protect his own people, why would he want balance in the system? Surely if he cared for his own people only, he could have destroyed rival villages.

At this point, you seem to just repeating the same stuff people said before yet not prove anything. Bar the few problems (Uchiha Massacre, Hyuga event, Danzo, etc.) there have been less and I dare say little issues, but still people want to call the system a failure based on the rare events that occur, as if they're common events.

 

[TrollKing]

So you can't even name another Danzo but claim there are so many? How is it Hashirama's fault for who believes what? Yet again you still can't tell me how Hashirama's was a bad hokage, I mean he was even praised as the god of shinobi and picked by the people, yet you claim he was bad yet again.

Hashirama created the concept of a village, there were no villages prior to this and other lands decided to follow suit behind this. Hashirama's leaf village had many other people from various lands that he welcomed in. Also if Hashirama wanted to protect his own people, why would he want balance in the system? Surely if he cared for his own people only, he could have destroyed rival villages.

At this point, you seem to just repeating the same stuff people said before yet not prove anything. Bar the few problems (Uchiha Massacre, Hyuga event, Danzo, etc.) there have been less and I dare say little issues, but still people want to call the system a failure based on the rare events that occur, as if they're common events.

This is a kids story, kishi won't wasted 20 characters just to make it look like reality as an example (in only one aspect). In manga there's only one hashi/naruto, but in reality there are millions of them. In manga population is like millions(99.99% nameless), in reality there is 7 billion

God of shinobi is a title of how violent he is, not what a great leader he is, so that is irrelevant. Whether he failed to create a good system or he follow a failed system is not that difference. If he's for the world sake, what he needed to create is not a konoha but rather to be the leader who protect all villages. If you think that's dictating, then perhaps he should've stopped dreaming about being hokage.(he wants world peace, but I'm not talking about wishful thinking here, I'm talking about actual action).

You deflect all by saying few rare events. The ninja world or the whole nv have nothing but problems.kids go to school to learn to use kunai and ninjutsu for what? Hurt people. Since part 1 naruto telling about being hokage and to make everyone knowledge him because of what?? He's a jin-and suffer due to failed system. Kakashi had such a sad life, why?? Ninja world system. Gaara same thing. The whole akatsuki are like nagato/obito/itachi, normal people won't go nuts, what does that tell you?? Ninja world failed. Why Zabuto and haku killing people?? Ninja world made them killing machines. And there's a lot more for all 693 chapters. Why we expecting more action? Because ninja world is a very violent world, and those characters been training very hard and getting spoonfed powerup for what?? To hurt and to kill people

The manga made no real changes and resolution to the problem the previous generation created. However you assume the laws and rules are different now, that what happened in the past will not repeat again because you trust in naruto's words. The whole manga been focusing the aftermath of a war. It doesn't mean its all good now just because world war 3 doesn't happen the next day world war 2 ended.

 

[UzumakiWade]

The tailed beasts are harmless to humans now so if they are a virus their basically one that wont harm the computer but rather help defend it.

The kage's are not useless files, they are the main sources that keep all the other applications in the computer running. The real virus here is Sasuke, the antivirus is Naruto and the tailed beasts. He wants to destroy the computer just because it doesn't function properly even though it can be repaired to become a better computer which will run properly. It might take time but it is better than completely destroying the computer and just rebuilding a new one when you can repair it and add new parts in it to make it run even better.

 

[TrollKing]

The tailed beasts are harmless to humans now so if they are a virus their basically one that wont harm the computer but rather help defend it.

The kage's are not useless files, they are the main sources that keep all the other applications in the computer running. The real virus here is Sasuke, the antivirus is Naruto and the tailed beasts. He wants to destroy the computer just because it doesn't function properly even though it can be repaired to become a better computer which will run properly. It might take time but it is better than completely destroying the computer and just rebuilding a new one when you can repair it and add new parts in it to make it run even better.

Viruses are viruses. I think what you referring to is "infected programs". There's no good virus nor can virus becomes harmless. A harmless virus is a useless virus , and its completely useless

 

[UzumakiWade]

Viruses are viruses. I think what you referring to is "infected programs". There's no good virus nor can virus becomes harmless. A harmless virus is a useless virus , and its completely useless

Okay, wrong example, they are part of the antivirus like Naruto.

 

[V h o]

This is a kids story, kishi won't wasted 20 characters just to make it look like reality as an example (in only one aspect). In manga there's only one hashi/naruto, but in reality there are millions of them. In manga population is like millions(99.99% nameless), in reality there is 7 billion

God of shinobi is a title of how violent he is, not what a great leader he is, so that is irrelevant. Whether he failed to create a good system or he follow a failed system is not that difference. If he's for the world sake, what he needed to create is not a konoha but rather to be the leader who protect all villages. If you think that's dictating, then perhaps he should've stopped dreaming about being hokage.(he wants world peace, but I'm not talking about wishful thinking here, I'm talking about actual action).

You deflect all by saying few rare events. The ninja world or the whole nv have nothing but problems.kids go to school to learn to use kunai and ninjutsu for what? Hurt people. Since part 1 naruto telling about being hokage and to make everyone knowledge him because of what?? He's a jin-and suffer due to failed system. Kakashi had such a sad life, why?? Ninja world system. Gaara same thing. The whole akatsuki are like nagato/obito/itachi, normal people won't go nuts, what does that tell you?? Ninja world failed. Why Zabuto and haku killing people?? Ninja world made them killing machines. And there's a lot more for all 693 chapters. Why we expecting more action? Because ninja world is a very violent world, and those characters been training very hard and getting spoonfed powerup for what?? To hurt and to kill people

The manga made no real changes and resolution to the problem the previous generation created. However you assume the laws and rules are different now, that what happened in the past will not repeat again because you trust in naruto's words. The whole manga been focusing the aftermath of a war. It doesn't mean its all good now just because world war 3 doesn't happen the next day world war 2 ended.

.... surely you can't be serious. If there were millions of Hashirama/Naruto, then peace would've happen, unless you believe those 2 are causing war?

I haven't deflected one thing for one, all the "bad" events are few, you act as if these events happen all the time. God forbid people can move on and live in the present.

Secondly you keep bringing the past up, as if the present and even the future is following that same past, when it clearly isn't. It's like we are reading a different manga or something. Did the SA happen or not?


I assume it is different because it clearly is different, the fact that the SA was formed is groundbreaking, and you ignoring that or emphasizing the small bad (and yes the bad is not even frequent).

 

[Uchihajin Sasuke]

Logic wise Sasuke is right, but since this is shounen I doubt his revolution will happen.

 

[TrollKing]

.... surely you can't be serious. If there were millions of Hashirama/Naruto, then peace would've happen, unless you believe those 2 are causing war?

I haven't deflected one thing for one, all the "bad" events are few, you act as if these events happen all the time. God forbid people can move on and live in the present.

Secondly you keep bringing the past up, as if the present and even the future is following that same past, when it clearly isn't. It's like we are reading a different manga or something. Did the SA happen or no
I assume it is different because it clearly is different, the fact that the SA was formed is groundbreaking, and you ignoring that or emphasizing the small bad (and yes the bad is not even frequent).

I said in manga there is 1 ashura and hashi. Millions of them in real life of course in personality not chakra control nor biju power. There is nothing new under the sun. Such character(personality/way of thinking) exist everywhere and I'm very familiar with them

You still insisting on "few". If all these events that compose in all 693 chapters is only a very few, then neither anybody needed to change, the ninja world doesn't need to change, then there's no need to argue, theres no need for kids to train so hard to fight, there's no need for war. Then the manga is very pointless since the manga is about achieving peace. Why achieving peace?? Apparently because its far from peace?!!

Like I said, the manga didn't introduce any way to "better" the already existing ninja world. What makes you think it turned 180 degree when no changes has made?

If you talking about SA as shinobi alliance, then it doesn't mean anything. Madara/zetsu whoever is is that powerful enough to destroy the world, of course everyone going to come together to get rid of the biggest threat first. If aliens invade the earth, do you think there's a country rather die in alien's hand than to cooperate with all other countries?? You see SA as something to celebrate, but SA is actually the last resolve to fight against the fruit of the ninja world

 

[V h o]

I said in manga there is 1 ashura and hashi. Millions of them in real life of course in personality not chakra control nor biju power. There is nothing new under the sun. Such character(personality/way of thinking) exist everywhere and I'm very familiar with them

If there was millions of people following their mindset there wouldn't be wars, or do you think theses millions of this mindset cause wars?

You still insisting on "few". If all these events that compose in all 693 chapters is only a very few, then neither anybody needed to change, the ninja world doesn't need to change, then there's no need to argue, theres no need for kids to train so hard to fight, there's no need for war

Insist? There are a few. Are there countless holocausts happening everyday? When did war equal genocide? Are you deciding to change topic now? They are ninja what are they suppose to train for, cooking? Even before ninja/chakra people fought in wars, yet you act as if this is going to change.

Like I said, the manga didn't introduce any way to "better" the already existing ninja world. What makes you think it turned 180 degree when no changes has made?

Stop what problems? I have asked this consistently and you ignored the question? What spectacular problems are there? Wars? those were before chakra and basically a part of human nature, so neither ashura nor Hashirama nor Naruto etc. are to blame.

No changes.... the SA, an union between nations is not a change to you? Does the form of an alliance mean nothing here? Has there ever been a time when the nations came together like that? Evidently things have changed.

It's obvious to me that you're either trolling or just in denial, when times have been getting better and you can't deny that, and that's why you keep referring to past events as if they are the future.

If you talking about SA as shinobi alliance, then it doesn't mean anything. Madara/zetsu whoever is is that powerful enough to destroy the world, of course everyone going to come together to get rid of the biggest threat first. If aliens invade the earth, do you think there's a country rather die in alien's hand then to cooperate with all other countries?? You see SA as something to celebrate, but SA is actually the last resolve to fight against the fruit of the ninja world

Nonetheless they came together to stop a minority, to stop something that the SA/ninja world was/is against. Sasuke's plan does nothing to change human nature, to change ideology.

 

[Koha]

Sasuke was never made to be right about anything.He was create to be wrong in His thinking and actions so you could see Sasuke the wrong next to Naruto the Right.

They're both not entirely right, it's not as black and white as your statement sounds.... In the end only their views compromised can actually pave the way for true peace.

 

[TrollKing]

If there was millions of people following their mindset there wouldn't be wars, or do you think theses millions of this mindset cause wars?

Your mind too simple. To easier explain this to you, I would say you have a very similar mindset as hashi/ashura that's why you agree with him and thus believe if the world has million people think like you in this aspect, there will be no war. The fact is there been countless people like that agreeing with
his way of thinking and there's still always wars. Just here this base alone, you can find almost everyone agree with this "democratic ways"

Insist? There are a few. Are there countless holocausts happening everyday? When did war equal genocide? Are you deciding to change topic now? They are ninja what are they suppose to train for, cooking? Even before ninja/chakra people fought in wars, yet you act as if this is going to change.

In a story telling, just like your everyday life. Just because you don't hear anyone robbing today doesn't mean there's no robbing going on today. Just because you don't hear anyone die today doesn't mean theres no one die today. And kishi certainly don't have enough room to squeeze every details and repeat it in a 17 pages chapter. This is a ninja manga, they have villages, and we see who rules the villages and who are the bosses. They are ninjas, not president nor ceo who not suppose to do the fighting

Stop what problems? I have asked this consistently and you ignored the question? What spectacular problems are there? Wars? those were before chakra and basically a part of human nature, so neither ashura nor Hashirama nor Naruto etc. are to blame.

The problem exist the whole time before chakra existed. Having chakra and ninja didn't help but also made the war more gruesome. Ashura and hashi not to be blame?? The leaders are the one who responsible for their generation. If they allow same problem to happen, then they failed to be the leader

No changes.... the SA, an union between nations is not a change to you? Does the form of an alliance mean nothing here? Has there ever been a time when the nations came together like that? Evidently things have changed.

A union to fight the war that they couldnt handle. That doesn't mean they are buddy buddy now. This is solely war related. It's not changes of the ninja world nor the system. This is only temporary to solve the biggest threat they facing. The SA will not last forever. SA is to clean up the war caused by the ninja system

It's obvious to me that you're either trolling or just in denial, when times have been getting better and you can't deny that, and that's why you keep referring to past events as if they are the future.

You better state specifically what better times are. It doesn't mean its getting better just because world war 3 doesn't happen the next day world war 2 ended.

Nonetheless they came together to stop a minority, to stop something that the SA/ninja world was/is against. Sasuke's plan does nothing to change human nature, to change ideology.

Here's an example: a certain psycho kid shoot up at the school. All the police unite together with the school to arrest the kid. Afterwards, they put the kid to jail and be happy forever. Why the kid shoot up? Because of school didn't care about bullying. Did they make any changes?? No to me (yes to you, because you said the school united together with the police to arrest the psycho kid). What can someone like sasuke do?? Change the system to be bullies free. And what sasuke can do is not known. All we know its that he determined to make a change of the whole corrupted world

 

[V h o]

Your mind too simple. To easier explain this to you, I would say you have a very similar mindset as hashi/ashura that's why you agree with him and thus believe if the world has million people think like you in this aspect, there will be no war. The fact is there been countless people like that agreeing with
his way of thinking and there's still always wars. Just here this base alone, you can find almost everyone agree with this "democratic ways"

You're very response further proves that there were/are different view points, which is why there were wars.

In a story telling, just like your everyday life. Just because you don't hear anyone robbing today doesn't mean there's no robbing going on today. Just because you don't hear anyone die today doesn't mean theres no one die today. And kishi certainly don't have enough room to squeeze every details and repeat it in a 17 pages chapter. This is a ninja manga, they have villages, and we see who rules the villages and who are the bosses. They are ninjas, not president nor ceo who not suppose to do the fighting

So we have to ignore the manga to allow you're opinion to be believed :|

If the manga isn't detailing war/genocide then it shouldn't be assumed. Secondly robbery and basic crime is a given, and those were not the "few" problems I was talking about.

The problem exist the whole time before chakra existed. Having chakra and ninja didn't help but also made the war more gruesome. Ashura and hashi not to be blame?? The leaders are the one who responsible for their generation. If they allow same problem to happen, then they failed to be the leader

And what was the problem? Yet again you're blaming human nature on 2 people. Was Hashirama the leader of the entire world or just the leaf village?

A union to fight the war that they couldnt handle. That doesn't mean they are buddy buddy now. This is solely war related. It's not changes of the ninja world nor the system. This is only temporary to solve the biggest threat they facing. The SA will not last forever. SA is to clean up the war caused by the ninja system

@bold: Your assumption, yet again. The villages have already been connected via naruto's chakra, so why should "world war 3" happen, because you say so? Because the past dedicates the future?

You better state specifically what better times are. It doesn't mean its getting better just because world war 3 doesn't happen the next day world war 2 ended.

Pick whatever time and compare it to the future, and all of them were better in the future. My point that things are changing for the better, however you refuse to believe that and still assume "world war 3" will happen. Change doesn't occur over night.

Here's an example: a certain psycho kid shoot up at the school. All the police unite together with the school to arrest the kid. Afterwards, they put the kid to jail and be happy forever. Why the kid shoot up? Because of school didn't care about bullying. Did they make any changes?? No to me (yes to you, because you said the school united together with the police to arrest the psycho kid). What can someone like sasuke do?? Change the system to be bullies free. And what sasuke can do is not known. All we know its that he determined to make a change of the whole corrupted world

In this example it's acknowledged that the "psycho kid" is wrong, that the sole kid is wrong yes? Sasuke is this sole kid, but he just has more power to continue his pursuit of his belief. Unless you believe that school was wrong and that the psycho kid is truly right, despite there being few of these "psycho kids".

 

[alt for spamming]

Sasuke antivirus? Kages unwanted files? Sasuke is wrong, open your window and allow fresh air in. Please.

You must be registered for see images

 

[TrollKing]

You're very response further proves that there were/are different view points, which is why there were wars.

nope, the reason theres war is not because of different opinion. That's way too simplistic way to say it. To make it simple, you can stop war if you can stop death(which is too far to have anything to do with opinion)

So we have to ignore the manga to allow you're opinion to be believed :|

If the manga isn't detailing war/genocide then it shouldn't be assumed. Secondly robbery and basic crime is a given, and those were not the "few" problems I was talking about.

My bolds were facts both from real world and manga, don't see what opinion you saying in your opinion. The manga already told you there are problems everywhere, genocide is just one of them in one form. What I'm saying is not only genocide, but I include all the reasons those ninja been fighting for. And apparently there are sufficient problems big and small alike for them ninjas to cry and fight about. My "robbery quote" is just an example of real life as ninja world hatred is given as well

And what was the problem? Yet again you're blaming human nature on 2 people. Was Hashirama the leader of the entire world or just the leaf village?

It was a quick quote, in no way I'm blaming entire human race on two people or the same person(ashura). I'm criticizing the ninja world and whoever support its way

@bold: Your assumption, yet again. The villages have already been connected via naruto's chakra, so why should "world war 3" happen, because you say so? Because the past dedicates the future?

Just because their chakras are connected to naruto now, doesn't mean they will stay connected forever nor they all agree with him 100% and will be friends forever. Being optimistic is good, but failed to acknowledge the failure will only let the history repeat itself

Pick whatever time and compare it to the future, and all of them were better in the future. My point that things are changing for the better, however you refuse to believe that and still assume "world war 3" will happen. Change doesn't occur over night.

My world war 2 and 3 is a parable. Again~just because my house has not collapsed today doesn't mean my house is durable and safe to live in(using a different parable)

In this example it's acknowledged that the "psycho kid" is wrong, that the sole kid is wrong yes? Sasuke is this sole kid, but he just has more power to continue his pursuit of his belief. Unless you believe that school was wrong and that the psycho kid is truly right, despite there being few of these "psycho kids".

No, in my example sasuke is not the psycho kid. The psycho kid is the war/genocide/caged jin/slavery/discrimination.. etc.. the police and school are the SA and the kages. The school rules are the ninja system.

The school failed at either two things or both

1. Regulate good rules that enable kids to learn and grow up healthy mentally

2. Enforce the rules with zero tolerance

 

[Glad Of War]

Logic wise Sasuke is right, but since this is shounen I doubt his revolution will happen.

Yea sadly plotnojutsu comes into play here.