Sasuke Speed is if Not on Par Better Then Narutos .

[lanakui8]

@ Bold that's not really true Sasuke used his MS precog to dodge it Same with Naruto who used his sensing to dodge it and both was nearly or somewhat at the last moment I don't see how it was easier than how Sasuke did it

Narutoʻs feat was with more ease because of two factors:
1) Sandaime raikageʻs attack had a greater reach than Eiʻs elbow, therefore it required faster reactions on narutoʻs part.
2) Narutoʻs attack required pinpoint accuracy in order to accurately send the raikageʻs arm back into his scar while Sandaimeʻs arm was moving away from him. Sasukeʻs attack didnʻt require such accuracy and cognitive abilitty.

@ Vote fight I don't think Sasuke used his speed that he used vs Gaara( i could be wrong) considering that was Sasuke's focal point throughout the chuunin exams Sasuke could still dodge but he couldn't react much like he use to till he got 3 tomoe.

Nothing suggests sasuke wasnʻt using his same speed against Gaara. Naruto needed a clone to throw him in order to match sasukeʻs running speed, there were many times when sasuke showed greats speed superiority over base naruto.

It also makes no sense for Sasuke to allow himself to get wtf blitzed by KN0 Naruto if he could stop that with his speed. by that logic, you could pretty much dismiss any speed feat and say X character for some inexplicable reason wasnʻt moving their fastest.

 

[Apêx1]

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Sasuke was still injured from the Itachi fight when he challenged Killer Bee. People should tone down the Sasuke couldn't handle Bee at all when he was tired, and a terrible match-up for someone like Bee who can counter balance his Chidori Katana, is immune to genjutsu, and can't be defeated by strict taijutsu due to his durable body. Though current Naruto is in fact faster than Current Sasuke, EMS Sasuke seemed on par with all the previous Naruto's, speed wise.

 

[Styles]

Narutoʻs feat was with more ease because of two factors:
1) Sandaime raikageʻs attack had a greater reach than Eiʻs elbow, therefore it required faster reactions on narutoʻs part.
2) Narutoʻs attack required pinpoint accuracy in order to accurately send the raikageʻs arm back into his scar while Sandaimeʻs arm was moving away from him. Sasukeʻs attack didnʻt require such accuracy and cognitive abilitty.


Nothing suggests sasuke wasnʻt using his same speed against Gaara. Naruto needed a clone to throw him in order to match sasukeʻs running speed, there were many times when sasuke showed greats speed superiority over base naruto.

It also makes no sense for Sasuke to allow himself to get wtf blitzed by KN0 Naruto if he could stop that with his speed. by that logic, you could pretty much dismiss any speed feat and say X character for some inexplicable reason wasnʻt moving their fastest.

His attack is just like a chidori/Raikiri. Sasuke was closer to the Raikage then dodged it's the same as Naruto same feats just different people

The 2nd part have nothing to do with dodging his attack.


How so? Sasuke's speed against Gaara was just like Lee's without his weights and something Lee said was on par or faster than his own Naruto used his clone to throw him because Sasuke was running towards him when Naruto was still making his Rasengan.

 

[lucario14]

And people wonder why naruto fanboys say the things we say.

fixed

Aww C'mon Naruto faptards, lets give the Sasuke fanbase a break. They've already been embarrassed by how Sasuke was practically useless in the Kaguya fight. Atleast let them believe in their fake beliefs, its all they have left for their precious Sasuke.

I see

Kaguya evaded Sasuke's hit even after he teleported while Naruto blitzed her a few pages later. Naruto and Sasuke aren't on the same speed tier, with Sasuke being inferior.

Sasuke was under the effects of gravity then. If kaguya didn't change dimensions, she would have been hit.

 

[shelke]

Wait, did you just say that base bee is as fast as V2 Ei?
SM Naruto dodged someone whoʻs at least as fast as V1 Ei with even more ease than Sasuke.

Reread Sasuke vs Naruto at VoTe. KN0 Naruto wtf blitzes 2 tomoe Sasuke. 3 tomoe Sasuke blitzes KN0 Naruto. Sasuke didnʻt gain any speed, but his precognition allowed him to blitz someone whoʻs faster than him. Reread pretty much anything that talks about running at your opponent at full speed and how the sharingan allows you to dodge and counter due to precog while no sharingan makes it hard to react. 3 T Sasuke is not even on Eiʻs speed tier, he just has reactions on a totally different level than Ei.

Also, KCM Naruto dodged and could easily perceive Eiʻs fastest punch. Sasuke canʻt even keep track of V2 Eiʻs movements with his MS. So like usually, debate honestly.

I posted the scans by mentioning the posts. He matched his V2 Lariat. That's all I need to know.

It was also established in part one that without the reaction, Sharingan Pre-cog is useless. But then again, so is your part one example that has nothing to do with this thread or the topic. That is your assumption that Hebi Sasuke's speed was not on par with V1 Ae. nothing but an assumption.

The feat he never repeated again? Madara smashed Gunbai in his face, Obito threw it up, standing still, knocking out KCM clones, KCM Naruto blitzes against Obito by himself utterly failed etc etc. Unless anyone would believe that Madara and Obito are anywhere near V2 Ae. They are in fact, considerabily slower.

 

[lanakui8]

I posted the scans by mentioning the posts. He matched his V2 Lariat. That's all I need to know.

I want you to flat out state how fast you think base bee is in comparison to V2 Ei. Do you believe base bee is just as fast as Ei or close to his speed?

It was also established in part one that without the reaction, Sharingan Pre-cog is useless. But then again, so is your part one example that has nothing to do with this thread or the topic. That is your assumption that Hebi Sasuke's speed was not on par with V1 Ae. nothing but an assumption.

sure without sufficient body speed, sharingan precog alone doesnʻt allow you to blitz someone, but thatʻs irrelevant to your point that because Sasukeʻs precog allows him to blitz V1 Ei, that sasuke can move faster than V1 Ei.

KN0 Naruto speed blitzing 2 tomoe Sasuke, then getting blitzed by 3 tomoe Sasuke conclusively proves that having better reactions allows you to blitz someone who can move way faster than you can. So no, Sasuke blitzing V1 Ei via sharingan precog does not mean Sasuke is anywhere near V1 Eiʻs speed.

The feat he never repeated again? Madara smashed Gunbai in his face, Obito threw it up, standing still, knocking out KCM clones, KCM Naruto blitzes against Obito by himself utterly failed etc etc. Unless anyone would believe that Madara and Obito are anywhere near V2 Ae. They are in fact, considerabily slower.

Narutoʻs clone shunshinned above Madara, he then traveled down with normal speed proven by the fact that he had enough time to form and thrust a bijuudama into madaraʻs gunbai before traveling a few feet.
Naruto never attempted to blitz Obito with a shunshin.

If Naruto performs a speed feat, then naruto gets that speed feat. Narutoʻs speed feat also wasnʻt some random speed feat, it was surrounded by tons of comparison hype comparing Narutoʻs speed to Minatoʻs and Eiʻs. Naruto not using an ability the manga gives him is simply plot hindering naruto in order for the opposition to stand a chance.

So nope, KCM Naruto is canonically faster than V2 Ei whoʻs canonically on a whole different speed tier than Sasuke.

 

[Genjutsu da]

Sasuke is not faster. BM Naruto is faster than Ay, and Sasuke is not faster than Ay. Simple as that

 

[Stormblast]

Naruto is easily 2-3 tiers above Sasuke in speed alone.

 

[shelke]

I want you to flat out state how fast you think base bee is in comparison to V2 Ei. Do you believe base bee is just as fast as Ei or close to his speed?


sure without sufficient body speed, sharingan precog alone doesnʻt allow you to blitz someone, but thatʻs irrelevant to your point that because Sasukeʻs precog allows him to blitz V1 Ei, that sasuke can move faster than V1 Ei.

KN0 Naruto speed blitzing 2 tomoe Sasuke, then getting blitzed by 3 tomoe Sasuke conclusively proves that having better reactions allows you to blitz someone who can move way faster than you can. So no, Sasuke blitzing V1 Ei via sharingan precog does not mean Sasuke is anywhere near V1 Eiʻs speed.


Narutoʻs clone shunshinned above Madara, he then traveled down with normal speed proven by the fact that he had enough time to form and thrust a bijuudama into madaraʻs gunbai before traveling a few feet.
Naruto never attempted to blitz Obito with a shunshin.

If Naruto performs a speed feat, then naruto gets that speed feat. Narutoʻs speed feat also wasnʻt some random speed feat, it was surrounded by tons of comparison hype comparing Narutoʻs speed to Minatoʻs and Eiʻs. Naruto not using an ability the manga gives him is simply plot hindering naruto in order for the opposition to stand a chance.

So nope, KCM Naruto is canonically faster than V2 Ei whoʻs canonically on a whole different speed tier than Sasuke.

He matched his V2 lariat, stepped in again several time to save BM Naruto as well. If he is not just as fast, then he is quite close, close enough that his reaction rates make the rest of the difference.

Sasuke wasn't faster than V1 Ae, he was on par with him, but his reaction was faster.

It doesn't matter to me. A still guy with no movement got blitzed and didn't even shrug. Naruto was constantly trying to hit Obito. One time he Kamui-ed out, and another time, he knocked two of his clones out by simply throwing Gunbai above. KCM's speed is nothing special if Madara and Obito had no trouble following it. Which would explain why Sasuke had no trouble matching and even outpacing him.

Even after these examples? I don't think so.

 

[lanakui8]

He matched his V2 lariat, stepped in again several time to save BM Naruto as well. If he is not just as fast, then he is quite close, close enough that his reaction rates make the rest of the difference.

So you literally believe that base bee is almost as fast as V2 Ei, and at least on the same speed tier?

Sasuke wasn't faster than V1 Ae, he was on par with him, but his reaction was faster.

based on what? 3 tomoe sharingan sasuke wasnʻt as fast as KN0 NAruto, yet Sasuke was blitzing Naruto worse than he was blitzing Ei.

It doesn't matter to me. A still guy with no movement got blitzed and didn't even shrug. Naruto was constantly trying to hit Obito. One time he Kamui-ed out, and another time, he knocked two of his clones out by simply throwing Gunbai above. KCM's speed is nothing special if Madara and Obito had no trouble following it. Which would explain why Sasuke had no trouble matching and even outpacing him.

If Naruto never used his flash shunshin in any of those instances, then none of those instances are positive arguments for Narutoʻs flash shunshin. Did naruto use his flash shunshin against Obito? Did he use it against Madara? Do characters always move at their fastest speeds?

By your logic, Base Naruto is just as fast as 3 T Sasuke since base Naruto runs just as fast as Sauske when they fight the juubilings.

And if base beeʻs speed is on par with V2 Eiʻs speed, then MS Sasuke shouldnʻt even be able to track base beeʻs speed, yet do white zetsus have problems tracking base bee? Does itachi or nagato have problems tracking base Bee?

Even after these examples? I don't think so.

Since none of your examples show kcm naruto using his shunshin to try and blitz someone then they do, KCM Naruto is faster than V2 Ei and plot is the only thing that stops naruto from using his speed against opponents.

The double standards you use show your biased. Evaluate sasuke by the same standard and heʻs not even faster than base naruto.

 

[lanakui8]

His attack is just like a chidori/Raikiri. Sasuke was closer to the Raikage then dodged it's the same as Naruto same feats just different people

are you saying that dodging an attack has nothing to do with the reach of the attack?

The 2nd part have nothing to do with dodging his attack.[/QUTOE]
But it does show superior speed and reactions since narutoʻs required both in order to land a much more pinpointed attack.

How so? Sasuke's speed against Gaara was just like Lee's without his weights and something Lee said was on par or faster than his own Naruto used his clone to throw him because Sasuke was running towards him when Naruto was still making his Rasengan.

Why does sasukeʻs speed against gaara being = leeʻs without weights mean anything? Sasuke was using that speed against Naruto, Naruto was just a lot faster and more reflexive than gaara. Plus if you reread the fight, Sasuke did have a great speed advantage on naruto, he blitzed naruto and instantly appeared in front or on the side of naruto on multiple occasions.

So you agree then, that Narutoʻs clone threw naruto in order for naruto to match sasukeʻs running speed?

 

[shelke]

So you literally believe that base bee is almost as fast as V2 Ei, and at least on the same speed tier?


based on what? 3 tomoe sharingan sasuke wasnʻt as fast as KN0 NAruto, yet Sasuke was blitzing Naruto worse than he was blitzing Ei.


If Naruto never used his flash shunshin in any of those instances, then none of those instances are positive arguments for Narutoʻs flash shunshin. Did naruto use his flash shunshin against Obito? Did he use it against Madara? Do characters always move at their fastest speeds?

By your logic, Base Naruto is just as fast as 3 T Sasuke since base Naruto runs just as fast as Sauske when they fight the juubilings.

And if base beeʻs speed is on par with V2 Eiʻs speed, then MS Sasuke shouldnʻt even be able to track base beeʻs speed, yet do white zetsus have problems tracking base bee? Does itachi or nagato have problems tracking base Bee?


Since none of your examples show kcm naruto using his shunshin to try and blitz someone then they do, KCM Naruto is faster than V2 Ei and plot is the only thing that stops naruto from using his speed against opponents.

The double standards you use show your biased. Evaluate sasuke by the same standard and heʻs not even faster than base naruto.

Already gave you the scans and explained it. Why pointlessly press on it?

An irrelevant example, since it's from part one.

These are nothing but excuses. What was stopping him from using it? The guy tripped over a root, as a result Chojiru ended up handling Zetsu, got burnt and his face was smashed in by Jins, it was Bee that rescued him again. Keep on clinging to that one example for good measure. That's all you have anyway, as the overwhelming evidence goes against it.

Whatever Base Bee did against Sasuke doesn't matter to me. his war feats against Ae and with BM Naruto prove that he's certainly faster than the latter. Yeah, let's lean on Plot again when all hope for argument is lost.

Says the guy who refuses to buy seven examples I have quoted and desperately clings to just one because it suits him.

 

[lanakui8]

Already gave you the scans and explained it. Why pointlessly press on it?

I want you to come out and say that you believe base bee has comparable speed to V2 Ei. If you believe that, why do you have a problem coming out and saying it?

An irrelevant example, since it's from part one.

An explanation about how speed and reactions work being in part 1 in no way shape or form means itʻs irrelevant to part 2. Thatʻs like saying the rasengan in part 2 isnʻt created via three steps of shape manipulation. So nope, Sasuke is not on the same speed tier as V1 Ei.

These are nothing but excuses. What was stopping him from using it? The guy tripped over a root, as a result Chojiru ended up handling Zetsu, got burnt and his face was smashed in by Jins, it was Bee that rescued him again. Keep on clinging to that one example for good measure. That's all you have anyway, as the overwhelming evidence goes against it.

Plot is stopping naruto from using it, or it could be naruto needing more chakra or not having tons of clones spammed in order to use it.
Since KCM Naruto never used flash shunshin on any of the occasions youʻve mentioned then none of that is evidence that KCM Narutoʻs flash shunshin isnʻt > V2 Eiʻs max speed. No character moves at their fastest speed all the time.

Whatever Base Bee did against Sasuke doesn't matter to me. his war feats against Ae and with BM Naruto prove that he's certainly faster than the latter. Yeah, let's lean on Plot again when all hope for argument is lost.

Wait, did you just say base bee is even faster than BM Naruto?

Says the guy who refuses to buy seven examples I have quoted and desperately clings to just one because it suits him.

None of the examples youʻve given are of Naruto using his flash shunshin. unless you can prove that characters always move at their fastest speeds, then simply bringing up examples of characters not moving at their fastest speed (aka not using shunshin) has nothing to do with them moving at their fastest speed.

And once again, by your logic, 3T sasuke is only as fast as base Naruto since he doesnʻt outspeed naruto when they run on multiple occasions.

 

[shadowcb]

Sasuke speed is not even on pair with KM Naruto's speed and Madara is faster than Sasuke physical speed. He has the eye and body power and Kabuto further enhanced him based his prime. A character doesn't have to perform a jutsu/ability multiple times prove they have achieved a feat.

@shelke, The reason Naruto never used his full speed against Obito was the same reason Guy never used his gates against Obito. The answer is "PLOT". Guy didn't have a problem using his gates earlier against the jinchuuriki. Naruto and Guy would have been too much for Obito to handle if they were using their full speed.

 

[shelke]

I want you to come out and say that you believe base bee has comparable speed to V2 Ei. If you believe that, why do you have a problem coming out and saying it?

An explanation about how speed and reactions work being in part 1 in no way shape or form means itʻs irrelevant to part 2. Thatʻs like saying the rasengan in part 2 isnʻt created via three steps of shape manipulation. So nope, Sasuke is not on the same speed tier as V1 Ei.


Plot is stopping naruto from using it, or it could be naruto needing more chakra or not having tons of clones spammed in order to use it.
Since KCM Naruto never used flash shunshin on any of the occasions youʻve mentioned then none of that is evidence that KCM Narutoʻs flash shunshin isnʻt > V2 Eiʻs max speed. No character moves at their fastest speed all the time.


Wait, did you just say base bee is even faster than BM Naruto?


None of the examples youʻve given are of Naruto using his flash shunshin. unless you can prove that characters always move at their fastest speeds, then simply bringing up examples of characters not moving at their fastest speed (aka not using shunshin) has nothing to do with them moving at their fastest speed.

And once again, by your logic, 3T sasuke is only as fast as base Naruto since he doesnʻt outspeed naruto when they run on multiple occasions.

I don't believe it. I already told you. Man, you are irritating. Can't you read?

Still irrelevant, as Sasuke blitzed several individuals without his Sharingan in part two. Until you have no proof that he isn't, then you have nothing.

If plot is the only thing you have, then good for you. I certainly am under no obligation to buy this fiction.

Yes, base Bee is faster. He reacted better to stop the Shurikens Obito threw out. Naruto in BM was standing oblivious. BM's speed is not godly, as you make it sound like. If anything, it's marginally superior than KCM. It was in BM that he couldn't land a hit on Obito, it was his BM clone that blitzed Madara and availed nothing.

Those seven examples easily overwhelm that one plot shield. guess what? That WAS plot.

 

[Styles]

are you saying that dodging an attack has nothing to do with the reach of the attack?

The 2nd part have nothing to do with dodging his attack.[/QUTOE]
But it does show superior speed and reactions since narutoʻs required both in order to land a much more pinpointed attack.


Why does sasukeʻs speed against gaara being = leeʻs without weights mean anything? Sasuke was using that speed against Naruto, Naruto was just a lot faster and more reflexive than gaara. Plus if you reread the fight, Sasuke did have a great speed advantage on naruto, he blitzed naruto and instantly appeared in front or on the side of naruto on multiple occasions.

So you agree then, that Narutoʻs clone threw naruto in order for naruto to match sasukeʻs running speed?

Do I have to show a manga scan of Sasuke being head close and dodging Raikages attack? It's the same as when Naruto did it in SM and KCM no different than the other.

Naruto's speed never increased or his reaction time during that little time span how can he react to Sasuke's speed but not Lee's something Lee said was on par or even faster than his own.?

Naruto used his clones to throw him towards Sasuke because Sasuke jumped off the waterfall and ran towards Naruto when Naruto was still making his Rasengan Sasuke had that advantage because his Chidori started before Naruto made a clone and made a Rasengan.

 

[lanakui8]

Do I have to show a manga scan of Sasuke being head close and dodging Raikages attack? It's the same as when Naruto did it in SM and KCM no different than the other.

Except sandaime raikageʻs attack had greater reach than Eiʻs elbow....

Naruto's speed never increased or his reaction time during that little time span how can he react to Sasuke's speed but not Lee's something Lee said was on par or even faster than his own.?

based on what did narutoʻs speed or reaction time not increase during that little time span? Are you saying that VoTe naruto that fought Naruto in chapter 230 = pre-chuunin exam naruto who fought lee in chapter 30?

Naruto used his clones to throw him towards Sasuke because Sasuke jumped off the waterfall and ran towards Naruto when Naruto was still making his Rasengan Sasuke had that advantage because his Chidori started before Naruto made a clone and made a Rasengan.

So what? If Sasuke had an advantage, then it just proves even more that Narutoʻs speed and reactions have improved to the point where he can match sasukeʻs speed with a cloneʻs help. Chidori by definition requires the user to move at their top speed toward their target. Sasuke must have been running at his maximum speed at naruto.

 

[lanakui8]

I don't believe it. I already told you. Man, you are irritating. Can't you read?

you explicitly stated that ʻif heʻs not just as fast, then heʻs close and his reactions make up for itʻ. How does that not = same level of speed?

Still irrelevant, as Sasuke blitzed several individuals without his Sharingan in part two. Until you have no proof that he isn't, then you have nothing.

Sasuke blitzing several individuals without his sharingan in part 2 has absolutely nothing to do with my argument. Sasukeʻs natural reactions and speed were simply just far superior to the people he blitzed. So nope, until you can prove that Sasuke is as fast as V1 Ei, thereʻs an even greater speed gap between sasuke and V1 Ei as there was between KN0 Naruto and Sasuke at VoTe.

If plot is the only thing you have, then good for you. I certainly am under no obligation to buy this fiction.

Wait, but YOUʻRE the one whoʻs crying that Naruto doing that to Ei was plot. So you canʻt claim plot since your entire argument rests on plot and therefore youʻve bought into your own fiction.

Yes, base Bee is faster. He reacted better to stop the Shurikens Obito threw out. Naruto in BM was standing oblivious. BM's speed is not godly, as you make it sound like. If anything, it's marginally superior than KCM. It was in BM that he couldn't land a hit on Obito, it was his BM clone that blitzed Madara and availed nothing.

Our discussion ends here then. If you believe that base bee is faster than BM Naruto, then I donʻt think theirʻs any point in discussing anything concerning Naruto with you as youʻve proven you have no desire to evaluate this manga objectively.

Those seven examples easily overwhelm that one plot shield. guess what? That WAS plot.

oh the irony:

If plot is the only thing you have, then good for you. I certainly am under no obligation to buy this fiction.

And no, since you have not addressed my arguments that none of those seven examples showed naruto using his shunshin and therefore are not applicable to naruto using shusnhin, then youʻve conceded that point.

 

[bencoby]

It's still not helping him get an edge over Naruto any time soon.

 

[demon sage]

It's not like it was hard considering everything we witnessed in the manga these last few chapters.

^^^This they can't accept the truth.