[Discussion] Donquixote Doflamingo; Not As Great As You Think

Vandenre1ch

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First of all: Oda is a genius and a real puppeteer. His ability to move the "strings above our heads" is amazing as he used a character as a medium to fool, manipulate and decieve us into thinking that this character is godly and untouchable, and caused reactions from many of fandom that was all according to Oda's deceptive plan.

That character is Donquixote Doflamingo

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We were being tricked by Oda all this time people and I shall liberate you all with the truth. But first, lets take a look at Oda's sneaky build up to this charismatic enigma known as Doflamingo.

Weaving the Strings
From the very beginning, Doflamingo was portrayed as an OP monster. His weird ability to control people seemed unstoppable and he had a bounty 340 million. 340 million was big deal at the time. It was revealed in an era of One Piece were alot of readers thought bounites=strength and Doflamingo had the highest bounty we've ever seen.

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His influence and success as a businessman hinted that he had alot of pull in illegal activites.

Notice Doffy's jolly roger in a public auction house.
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And the biggest amount of gasoline that was poured into the fire was his attitude and performance at Marineford. He was laughing and enjoying the enitre war. Whitebeard, The admirals, Garp, Sengoku, Shanks, none seemed to bother him. It really made it seem that Doflamingo was THAT powerful. A true top dog.

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The illusion of Doflamingo being uber powerful was further cemented by his muder attempt on Moriah and pulling his weight around a government official. Makes you think "Wow. Doffy must be truly powerful if the government gives him personal special missions yet he can still do what he wants."

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By the end of Part 1, Doflamingo seemed like top 10 material. Almost evey top 20 lists made by fans had Doflamingo in the top 10. Oda's plan of deception was a success. All that was left was for Oda to test the hype he had built for Doflamingo. It call came to the test in Punk Hazard. When Joker was revealed to be Doflamingo, readers went CRAZY. Its was so odd that Doflamingo would get re-introduced so early in the New World. Alot of readers assumed that Luffy won't fight Doffy until he gets to the 2nd half of the New World similar to Big Mam.
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If getting re-introduced wasn't enough, how about getting directly involved with the affairs of the SHs? When Doflamingo left Dressrosa and was on his way to Punk Hazard, jaws dropped. Readers didn't know how the hell the SHs would get away from Doflamingo if he caught them. He seemed so powerful that he would slaughter them all.
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Once again, Oda had us fooled. However, he left direct and indirect clues to the true nature of Donquixote Doflamingo.

Cutting the Strings Part 1
This is the beginning Doffy's "fall from grace." The man who would laugh at everything and seemingly in contol at all times, was being played and showing fear. This showed that Doffy was only human and that he gets back into a corner just like everybody else. He's no one special.

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Being confronted by Kuzan was a true test of Doflamingo's standing in the top dogs. Some can interpted this as "Doffy ran away from Aokiji" but thats not the case. Doflamongo still disobeyed Kuzan by trying to kill Smoker and taunted him. Doflamingo knew that Kuzan isn't someone that he should screw with at the time. Doflamingo at the very least, stood his ground.
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The scan your about to see explains everything. The nonchalant Doflamingo who laughed his way through the Marineford war was sweating because of the power of an Admiral up close.

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When Doflamingo taunted Fujitora, he only did that because he knew Fujitora wouldn't fight back.

Cutting the Strings Part 2
Take a look at these 2 sets of scans.

Set 1
1.1
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1.2
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1.3
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Every person Doflamingo has fought and defeated so far were injured beforehand. If Oda truly wanted to portray Doflamingo as being ultra powerful, shouldn't he let Doffy defeat people when they are at full strength? Cause look at this:

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An injured Law still got a hit in. When I first this, I was disappointed. Doffy didn't really seem as powerful as I thought he was and he was my absolute favorite character at the time. Most readers interpted this scene this way: "Wow Law is stronger than I thought." Actually, its "Wow Doffy is not as strong as I thought."

Set 2
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There has simply been too many occasions of Doflamingo being caught of guard. One could argue that the puppet can't use CoO and couldn't ise CoO when fighting Smoker being he was not focused, but what about Sanji? Doflamingo noticed Sanji at the last minute and he was focused and calm in that situation.

It leads me to believe Doflamingo has weak/no CoO Not good enough? Then lets take a look and scan set 2.2.

2.2
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Just about every attack Doflamingo has blocked or dodged were very linear and directly in his line of sight. I have yet to see someone try to attack Doffy's blind spot. It makes sense actually. Everytime an attack gets thrown at him that weren't in his line of sight to begin with, either lands or is barely blocked in the nic' of time.

Doflamingo's CoO is atleast very poor.

P.S. Don't forget that Doflamingo always has atleast one of his executives by his side. Could they be trying to cover Doffy's weakness?

Conclusion
Doflamingo has poor CoO and relies on his natural reflexes. He is used to blocking/dodging linear attacks and can be caught off guard quite easily(its easy to surprise him). Seems like Luffy might be a bad match up for Doffy.

Oda made Doffy look like a monster and placed hidden clues for us figure out that would reveal the truth. Doffy's character is all about lies and deception and Oda used Doffy as a medium(similar to how the Gorosei are using Doffy as a medium in the underground affairs) to lie and decieve us into believing Doffy was a monster. Its up to us to liberate ourselves. Apparantly, some readers are still being manipulated by Oda's deception. Some readers still say "I call BS if Luffy beats Doflamingo in a 1v1."

A forgot to put scans for this, but Doflamingo can't contol individuals with stong wills.
Weak Wills=Complete Control(fodder, Atmos, VA Stainless, Bellamy)
Strong Wills=Can only be restrained(Jozu, Sanji)
Unbendable Wills=Can't control at all(Luffy, Chinjao, other top dogs)


Agree?
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Or Disagree?
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The7thHokage

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I can agree to that, yesh.

But Luffy only got to reach Doffy with his Red Hawk with the help of Law who used Shambles to move Luffy towards Doffy. All I can say is that it doesn't seem all that impossible, Doffy looked like an absolute beast during this chapter, and then BAM! Get flamed assface! He looked like he had it all planned out and got bit in the ass.

Nice thread you got there.
 

Vandenre1ch

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I can agree to that, yesh.

But Luffy only got to reach Doffy with his Red Hawk with the help of Law who used Shambles to move Luffy towards Doffy. All I can say is that it doesn't seem all that impossible, Doffy looked like an absolute beast during this chapter, and then BAM! Get flamed assface! He looked like he had it all planned out and got bit in the ass.

Nice thread you got there.
Doffy knew what Law was planning but he STILL got hit by Red Hawk. I take that as another hint to his "bad" reflexes.

Thanks! Took 2 hours to do this.....it was pretty annoying finding all thses scans...
 

Red Swag

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naahh. luffy and law needs to beat doflamingo right now. that is whats happening. they coulda done the same with fujitora.
 

Fireplay

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Nice thread.

I think its too early to say that DD isn't all that though. Look at it this way...

DD's right hand man was killed
His business has been ruined
His grave has already been dug (Kaido)
All of his plans have been ruined

All because of Law and his resentment towards DD. Anyone would get pissed, doesn't matter how high up in the ladder they are.

I t isn't over yet though. DD still hasn't gone all out yet he took out Sanji, Law and Luffy with ease. He isn't invincible but he's pretty damn powerful. I don't think DD has poor CoO either. I mean Law teleported him right in front of a charging Luffy. I've seen much MUCH worse.

I never once thought that DD was top 10. I know he is powerful but i don't overrate him.

Overall a nice thread.
 
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Olorin

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I still think Dofy is a monster (though not as high as some people hold him, for example I think Ace was > Doflamingo, not to even talk about Marco or any Admiral), he took out Law and he fodderized Sanji

But I do think Many people severely underestimate Luffy

But I do remember threads back at PH about how Dofy would be handled after Big Mom and maybe even after Kaido XD
 
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Uzumaki Macho

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I still think Dofy is a monster (though not as high as some people hold him, for example I think Ace was > Doflamingo, not to even talk about Marco or any Admiral), he took out Law and he fodderized Sanji

But I do think Many people severely underestimate Luffy
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Infinite Facepalm: When a finite number of facepalms aren't enough.
 

Olorin

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Infinite Facepalm: When a finite number of facepalms aren't enough.
Meticulous wording, flawless writing and above all a well though out theme, you sir deserve an award ... Will the "hillbilly pen for the best wannabe argument" do?
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Meticulous wording, flawless writing and above all a well though out theme, you sir deserve an award ... Will the "hillbilly pen for the best wannabe argument" do?
So saying Doflamingo>Ace makes me a hillbilly huh, I never knew. I guess 90% of the posters in this section are hillbilly too.
 

Olorin

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So saying Doflamingo>Ace makes me a hillbilly huh, I never knew. I guess 90% of the posters in this section are hillbilly too.
No I never said you are a hillbilly, I simply awarded you an award of theirs

What I meant was that memes are insta replies for the gang that couldn't shoot straight, instead of simply disagreeing with me you had to post an idiotic meme

It started as a gradual decline of the language of Shakespeare

It continued with dumbing down the language enogh to cram it into 140 characters

Than ppl simply started the # to pass on messages or even attempt arguments

And finally we got to the point where an individual is almost more likely to reply with a meme (ie a thinly veiled insult) than with a coherent sentence
 
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Punk Hazard

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I agree that Doffy isn't as strong as we all thought, but I think you're starting to underestimate him a bit. Well thought out thread indeed, but I think Doffy got caught off-guard because:

1. The first two times were clones, so probably weaker
2. He underestimated the duo, he got overconfident.

Doffy will definitely have trouble taking out Law and Luffy, but it's not gonna be a baby shake for them either.
 

Tomato God

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No I never said you are a hillbilly, I simply awarded you an award of theirs

What I meant was that memes are insta replies for the gang that couldn't shoot straight, instead of simply disagreeing with me you had to post an idiotic meme

It started as a gradual decline of the language of Shakespeare

It continued with dumbing down the language enogh to cram it into 140 characters

Than ppl simply started the # to pass on messages or even attempt arguments

And finally we got to the point where an individual is almost more likely to reply with a meme (ie a thinly veiled insult) than with a coherent sentence
If anything that is the human mind becoming greater. For some reason you view the ability to fit complex thought into a less than thirty words as a flaw, shakespear wrote sonnets. People now can convey the same feeling with less effort and more impact due to mass sharing. Don't lie and belittle human ingenuity.

"I have loved and lost without loving at all. You never saw me. You still moved on. Both are hell"

The main theme of Shakespearian liturature in less than 140 characters. Bitch
 
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Punk Hazard

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You should also take into account that Doffy was able to turn and see Luffy about to attack him, meaning if someone attacks from his blind spot, he has the potential to eliminate the blind spot with his reflexes.
 

Bogard

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1- Sanji's meal brought everyone back at full power. Smoker was at 100%

2- Sanji only received small and superficial injuries against Viola when he is a superhuman fighter. It wouldn't have made any difference in the fight against Doflamingo

3- The only one i agree with is against Law and eventhen Law's room ability(influencing his stamina) had close to no impact in the battle considering Doflamingo defeated him with superior combat ability

4- Narutobase members are just noob. Ever since i realised Doffy was an arc villain, i never put him far above the likes of Law/Luffy/Zoro, so it's not surprising to me that in combo, they can pressure him

5- Latest chapter prove nothing however. Doflamingo just underestimated them
 

Vandenre1ch

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I agree that Doffy isn't as strong as we all thought, but I think you're starting to underestimate him a bit. Well thought out thread indeed, but I think Doffy got caught off-guard because:

1. The first two times were clones, so probably weaker
2. He underestimated the duo, he got overconfident.

Doffy will definitely have trouble taking out Law and Luffy, but it's not gonna be a baby shake for them either.
The thread puppets are still a mystery so I didn't use those to support my claims. Just a quick thought to bring up in case what I said about them is true.

Doflamingo>Luffy and Law but Luffy+Law>Doffy. Even though Doffy low diffed injured Law, he still got hit. Fresh Law would atleast push Doflamingo to med difficulty. Luffy would atleast push Doffy to high difficulty. Them together is too much which is why I think ragdoll Bellamy and Trebol are there. To even the odds as you can say.
 

Punk Hazard

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The thread puppets are still a mystery so I didn't use those to support my claims. Just a quick thought to bring up in case what I said about them is true.

Doflamingo>Luffy and Law but Luffy+Law>Doffy. Even though Doffy low diffed injured Law, he still got hit. Fresh Law would atleast push Doflamingo to med difficulty. Luffy would atleast push Doffy to high difficulty. Them together is too much which is why I think ragdoll Bellamy and Trebol are there. To even the odds as you can say.
You sound like Law nailed a relevant attack on Doffy. He made an insignificant scratch, you're hyping it beyond what it really is at this point.

I disagree that Luffy would push Doflamingo higher than Law would, as I believe Law edges ahead of Luffy, so we shouldn't assess Doffy's power by comparing their individual capabilities against him, as that'd just start a whole new argument.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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You sound like Law nailed a relevant attack on Doffy. He made an insignificant scratch, you're hyping it beyond what it really is at this point.

I disagree that Luffy would push Doflamingo higher than Law would, as I believe Law edges ahead of Luffy, so we shouldn't assess Doffy's power by comparing their individual capabilities against him, as that'd just start a whole new argument.
Didn't Law just admit this chapter that Luffy is the best in the Worst Generation(excluding BB of course)?
 

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I want Doffy to parasite Luffy. Ever since his first introduction decades ago, we still don't know how to get out of it. I won't like that Oda make Doffy defeated without showing us how to get through his parasite technique. I even wonder why he didn't do it on Luffy
 
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