Sage Mode Naruto vs Ei

[Blackdeath667]

Ay should win

 

[KidGamer65]

Are you people seriously implying that base Madara is faster then V2 Ei?

Ei is faster then the 3rd Raikage btw. If Madara was capable of blitzing SM Naruto, as can Ei once he goes V2.

Except Madara didn't blitz Naruto, Naruto blocked his attack. KCM Naruto reacted to Ay, and SM Naruto was stated to have better sensing, and was stated to be able to react faster than he does in KCM, so its a fact that SM can react to Ay.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Except Madara didn't blitz Naruto, Naruto blocked his attack. KCM Naruto reacted to Ay, and SM Naruto was stated to have better sensing, and was stated to be able to react faster than he does in KCM, so its a fact that SM can react to Ay.

Naruto couldn't get out of the way, if Naruto attempts to block a horizontal chop or a vertical one, his arms come off. KCM Naruto was able to dodge thanks to the insane speed it has, WAY better speed then SM Naruto, even if Naruto has slightly better reflexes in SM.

 

[KidGamer65]

Naruto couldn't get out of the way, if Naruto attempts to block a horizontal chop or a vertical one, his arms come off. KCM Naruto was able to dodge thanks to the insane speed it has, WAY better speed then SM Naruto, even if Naruto has slightly better reflexes in SM.

Pretty sure Madara was closer to Naruto than Ay is in this scenario, not to mention Ay starts in his V1 armor, those things combined gives Naruto enough time to use Rasengan, make a clone, etc. He doesn't need to get out of the way.


The difference between SM and KCM's reflexes is large enough for Naruto to use Sage Mode instead, and its large enough for him to actually note it, so I don't know where slightly came from, buts its false.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Pretty sure Madara was closer to Naruto than Ay is in this scenario, not to mention Ay starts in his V1 armor, those things combined gives Naruto enough time to use Rasengan, make a clone, etc. He doesn't need to get out of the way.


The difference between SM and KCM's reflexes is large enough for Naruto to use Sage Mode instead, and its large enough for him to actually note it, so I don't know where slightly came from, buts its false.

Does not matter how close they are, they will be within CQC distance within mere seconds, if not a single second. Rasengan is hardly damaging Ei, if at all.

Naruto used Sage Mode instead thanks to the Precog. Naruto can easily dodge the 3rd Raikage in KCM mode, but he won't be capable of timing his attack as well as he would with Sage Mode.

 

[KidGamer65]

Does not matter how close they are, they will be within CQC distance within mere seconds, if not a single second. Rasengan is hardly damaging Ei, if at all.

Yes, it does. If Ay goes in for a blitz, and gets countered with Rasengan, or anything larger such as Oodama Rasengan, he dies. And lol.

Rasengan=Chidori. Chidori got through Ay's armor and touched his skin, and it

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with the left over strength. Look at where Sasuke hit him.

SM Rasengan>>Rasengan=Chidori. SM Oodama Rasengan>>>>>Rasengan=Chidori. So Rasengan is going to do moderate damage, and Oodama Rasengan is going to kill him.

Naruto used Sage Mode instead thanks to the Precog. Naruto can easily dodge the 3rd Raikage in KCM mode, but he won't be capable of timing his attack as well as he would with Sage Mode.

Meaning he can react faster, as he stated himself. Why he used it doesn't change the overall point, and yes, I know that KCM Naruto can dodge the Raikage.

 

[Kamui Sama]

oops I meant to say when Naruto blocked Madara's attack.

When did that happen?

 

[KidGamer65]

oops I meant to say when Naruto blocked Madara's attack.

When did that happen?

Right here.

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[Killua Zoldyck]

Yes, it does. If Ay goes in for a blitz, and gets countered with Rasengan, or anything larger such as Oodama Rasengan, he dies. And lol.

Ei dodges a Oodama Rasengan, goes behind him, grabs him and smacks his head against the ground.

Rasengan=Chidori. Chidori got through Ay's armor and touched his skin, and it

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with the left over strength. Look at where Sasuke hit him.

Chidori also shares an affinity with the armour, so it was capable of, in a sense, neutralizing it. That won't happen with Rasengan. And even if it did, hypothetically speaking, go through, the blunt force damage from a rasengan which gets 80% of it blocked, would be superficial, just like the Chidoris damage was, except it won't actually be visible.

SM Rasengan>>Rasengan=Chidori. SM Oodama Rasengan>>>>>Rasengan=Chidori. So Rasengan is going to do moderate damage, and Oodama Rasengan is going to kill him.

SM Rasengan did nothing to the 3rd Raikage despite hitting him in a joint (a very weak area), who granted does have more durability then V1 Ei, but not by a whole lot. Ei has enough common sense to dodge a Oodama Rasnean, its a non-factor.

Rasengan = No damage whatsoever.
SM Rasengan = Superficial damage.
Oodama Rasnegan = Gets dodged, but even if it hit, Ei comes out with with some minor injury, but could still fight.
SM Oodama Rasengan = Puts some decent injurys on Ei.
FRS = Kills him.

This is all V1 talk, in V2, he can survive even a FRS. Everything would go down a notch (ex. SM Rasengan does nothing, Oodama Rasnegan damage becomes superficial etc...)

Meaning he can react faster, as he stated himself. Why he used it doesn't change the overall point, and yes, I know that KCM Naruto can dodge the Raikage.

No, it does not have anything to do with reacting, its simply timing, as in, he knows exactly when to dodge in order to land a hit.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Since when does Ay's v2 give increase durability? It was never stated to do so

 

[KidGamer65]

Ei dodges a Oodama Rasengan, goes behind him, grabs him and smacks his head against the ground.

Lol, if he charges in with a blitz, and Naruto has clones up, if he hits a clone, he won't have time to dodge anything, he'll get hit by Rasengan and die.

Chidori also shares an affinity with the armour, so it was capable of, in a sense, neutralizing it. That won't happen with Rasengan. And even if it did, hypothetically speaking, go through, the blunt force damage from a rasengan which gets 80% of it blocked, would be superficial, just like the Chidoris damage was, except it won't actually be visible.

Bold is a baseless assumption. It got through because it was strong enough to get through, not because its a Raiton. And yeah, Rasengan's damage would be superficial like Chidori's, but I'm talking about a SM Rasengan or an SM Oodama Rasengan, so no, it'd do worse and it'd hurt Ay.

SM Rasengan did nothing to the 3rd Raikage despite hitting him in a joint (a very weak area), who granted does have more durability then V1 Ei, but not by a whole lot. Ei has enough common sense to dodge a Oodama Rasnean, its a non-factor.

3rd Raikage>>>>>>>>>Ay in durability. Its not close at all. Chidori pierced Ay yet the Raikage tanked FRS. Its not even debatable.

Ay's common sense is irrelevant here. Him blitzing and failing puts him in a position where he can be hit. Its that simple.

Rasengan = No damage whatsoever.

Just as much damage as Chidori as they are equal.

SM Rasengan = Superficial damage.

Nope. Moderate damage as its>>Chidori and Rasengan.

Oodama Rasnegan = Gets dodged, but even if it hit, Ei comes out with with some minor injury, but could still fight.

Oodama Rasengan>>Rasengan=Chidori, so he takes moderate damage, and no he doesn't evade it, not immediately after Shunshin'ing and hitting a Naruto clone. No time to evade.

SM Oodama Rasengan = Puts some decent injurys on Ei.

It blows out his chest.

FRS = Kills him.

Ok.

This is all V1 talk, in V2, he can survive even a FRS. Everything would go down a notch (ex. SM Rasengan does nothing, Oodama Rasnegan damage becomes superficial etc...)

Lol, hell no. His durability doesn't change when he goes V2, only his speed increases since V2 is just him putting more chakra into his armor for the sole purpose of increased speed. And even if it did, you pretty much have zero proof that it pushes him to his father's level of durability.

No, it does not have anything to do with reacting, its simply timing, as in, he knows exactly when to dodge in order to land a hit.

Naruto already stated that he reacts faster due to better sensing and precognation, so he reacts faster. That simple.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Since when does Ay's v2 give increase durability? It was never stated to do so

V2 is Ei pouring maximum chakra in the armour, V1 armour is Ei pouring regular chakra into the armour. In other words, the armour gets stronger once in V2, and thus, it becomes thicker and more durable.

Lol, if he charges in with a blitz, and Naruto has clones up, if he hits a clone, he won't have time to dodge anything, he'll get hit by Rasengan and die.

.......................

Are you under the impression that Ei won't notice Naruto making the clones once charging for the blitz? No.

Bold is a baseless assumption. It got through because it was strong enough to get through, not because its a Raiton. And yeah, Rasengan's damage would be superficial like Chidori's, but I'm talking about a SM Rasengan or an SM Oodama Rasengan, so no, it'd do worse and it'd hurt Ay.

Is not baseless, its normal affinity knowledge. SM Rasengan damage would be superficial, I agree that SM Oodama Rasengan can put some hefty damage on him.

3rd Raikage>>>>>>>>>Ay in durability. Its not close at all. Chidori pierced Ay yet the Raikage tanked FRS. Its not even debatable.

Ay's common sense is irrelevant here. Him blitzing and failing puts him in a position where he can be hit. Its that simple.

Not at all, Ei has amazing durability himself. If the 3rd Raikage was a human, he would have been insanely injured from FRS.

But he won't fail, he won't be 'missing' Naruto.

Also, why would Ei not go V2? He went V2 off the bat against Madara and Minato. He did not go V1 right away against Naruto because he wanted to convince him to go back first.

Just as much damage as Chidori as they are equal.

Chidori shares an affinity, rasengan does not. I someone was clad in fire, and was ready to tank an attack from a fire user and an attack from a lightning user both of which have equivalent amount of power put into them. Its more likely that the fire would offset and burn the person who is tanking then the lighting, which cannot offset the fire.

Nope. Moderate damage as its>>Chidori and Rasengan.

Nope, superficial damage seeing as how Rasengan is not doing any damage.

Oodama Rasengan>>Rasengan=Chidori, so he takes moderate damage, and no he doesn't evade it, not immediately after Shunshin'ing and hitting a Naruto clone. No time to evade.

He takes minimum damage as a SM Rasengan would get shrugged off. He is not hitting a Naruto clone if Naruto makes it in plain sight.

It blows out his chest.

Its not killing him, but it will injure him significantly.

Lol, hell no. His durability doesn't change when he goes V2, only his speed increases since V2 is just him putting more chakra into his armor for the sole purpose of increased speed. And even if it did, you pretty much have zero proof that it pushes him to his father's level of durability.

His own durability does not change, but the armour gets thicker , which is especially useful against Ninjutsu. His strength increases as well btw.

Naruto already stated that he reacts faster due to better sensing and precognation, so he reacts faster. That simple.

Show me the panel. And reacts faster is not reacts WAY faster.

 

[QdonEms]

Ay v2 stomps SM naruto....naruto cant even react to his movements

 

[KidGamer65]

V2 is Ei pouring maximum chakra in the armour, V1 armour is Ei pouring regular chakra into the armour. In other words, the armour gets stronger once in V2, and thus, it becomes thicker and more durable.

Still no evidence that leads me to believe the jump is great enough to let anyone say he'll tank FRS, or even Oodama Rasengan.

.......................

Are you under the impression that Ei won't notice Naruto making the clones once charging for the blitz? No.

That's irrelevant anyway, since Naruto can have a clone take a hit for him. Ay moves in a linear matter and Naruto can react to him, so doing so won't be hard at all. Even if Ay hits Naruto, SM Jiraiya blocked/tanked the Yak's attack with no real damage.

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Naruto would block most of Ay's attacks.

Is not baseless, its normal affinity knowledge. SM Rasengan damage would be superficial, I agree that SM Oodama Rasengan can put some hefty damage on him.

Lol Since when was that normal affinity knowledge? Chidori's feat was attributed to its power, not its element.

Not at all, Ei has amazing durability himself. If the 3rd Raikage was a human, he would have been insanely injured from FRS.

Still nothing compared to his father, and no, the Raikage straight up tanked it. Edo Tensei doesn't increase durability nor was the feat attributed to his Edo Tensei state.

But he won't fail, he won't be 'missing' Naruto.

He'll be running right into a clone, only to get an Oodama Rasengan to his chest from the original or another clone. Killing him. And he won't be evading it as he'll have no time to evade right after using Shunshin.

Also, why would Ei not go V2? He went V2 off the bat against Madara and Minato. He did not go V1 right away against Naruto because he wanted to convince him to go back first.

Never said that he wouldn't.

Chidori shares an affinity, rasengan does not. I someone was clad in fire, and was ready to tank an attack from a fire user and an attack from a lightning user both of which have equivalent amount of power put into them. Its more likely that the fire would offset and burn the person who is tanking then the lighting, which cannot offset the fire.

And where is the proof for anything that you are stating? Bringing another example doesn't really mean much when there is nothing backing it.

Show me the panel. And reacts faster is not reacts WAY faster.

Its been posted here twice now.

"This Sage Mode Frog Pair...has a wider danger sensing rang and it's faster"

That comes from viz.

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Naruto states his sensing is better, meaning he reacts faster. And I never said its way faster, just faster, fast enough that there is a difference otherwise Naruto wouldn't have pointed it out, meaning he isn't getting blitzed.

 

[Xlad]

Are you people seriously implying that base Madara is faster then V2 Ei?

Ei is faster then the 3rd Raikage btw. If Madara was capable of blitzing SM Naruto, as can Ei once he goes V2.

Not one bit. But I don't see why Naruto would bother moving out of his way in the first place. On top of that, he wondered why Madara cut himself, thus making it a surprised attack. Naruto would needed the "!" expression to indicate him being blitzed.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Not one bit. But I don't see why Naruto would bother moving out of his way in the first place. On top of that, he wondered why Madara cut himself, thus making it a surprised attack. Naruto would needed the "!" expression to indicate him being blitzed.

What a poor excuse, might as well say Naruto noticed Sai was sweating. He was clearly blitzed, there is nothing more that needs to be said.

Still no evidence that leads me to believe the jump is great enough to let anyone say he'll tank FRS, or even Oodama Rasengan.

The leap has the same difference that there is between V1 speed and V2 speed. Pretty huge.

That's irrelevant anyway, since Naruto can have a clone take a hit for him. Ay moves in a linear matter and Naruto can react to him, so doing so won't be hard at all. Even if Ay hits Naruto, SM Jiraiya blocked/tanked the Yak's attack with no real damage.

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Naruto would block most of Ay's attacks.

If he has a clone take a hit for him, then who will help him make hold the Oodama rasengan. And Ei dodged Jūgos laser from point blank range (despite having his hand inside Jūgo), Naruto is not hitting Ei. Yak = Fodder compared to Ei, KCM Naruto said that if he took a direct hit from V1 Ei it would have been GG, SM Naruto is not more durable then KCM Naruto.

Also, we are talking about horizontal/vertical chop which is a piercing attack, a regular sword was able to pierce through SM Madaras skin, who is far more durable then SM Naruto, lightning chop cuts his hands off.

Still nothing compared to his father, and no, the Raikage straight up tanked it. Edo Tensei doesn't increase durability nor was the feat attributed to his Edo Tensei state.

They have unlimited endurance as an Edo Tensei, so any cells that would have been destroyed in the process, would have not made a difference as an Edo, but they sure as hell would if he was a living human.

He'll be running right into a clone, only to get an Oodama Rasengan to his chest from the original or another clone. Killing him. And he won't be evading it as he'll have no time to evade right after using Shunshin.

No, Ei will knock the clone out of the way and hit the real one. If he noticed that Naruto is making a Oodama rasengan he will dodge. Jūgos laser has a larger AoE then Oodama Rasengan.

And where is the proof for anything that you are stating? Bringing another example doesn't really mean much when there is nothing backing it.

Dude, don't be ignorant. You are smart enough to understand what I am saying, the example was simply support, its common sense. The same affinity attack could offset one another, just like Sasukes chidori did with Eis armour or Kakashi did with Gian, another affinity cannot offset another affinity.

That comes from viz.

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Naruto states his sensing is better, meaning he reacts faster. And I never said its way faster, just faster, fast enough that there is a difference otherwise Naruto wouldn't have pointed it out, meaning he isn't getting blitzed.

Don't play me for a fool, mangapanda is about as far from a Viz translation as it possibly gets.

Either way, he says sense better, not give better reflexes, and then he adds "with this I can dodge the enemy at the last moment" to support my argument.

 

[Eternal Sage]

Naruto mid-high diff.
People are definitely underrating SM sensing and reflexes

 

[KidGamer65]

The leap has the same difference that there is between V1 speed and V2 speed. Pretty huge.

Gonna need proof for this, cause so far nothing backs up your claims, at all.

If he has a clone take a hit for him, then who will help him make hold the Oodama rasengan. And Ei dodged Jūgos laser from point blank range (despite having his hand inside Jūgo),

Lol, his other clones . Or did we forget that he can make well over even 4 clones, not to mention he can

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And how in the world is him Shunshin'ing, hitting a clone and Naruto taking that time to hit him with Rasengan, the same as Ay dodging Jugo's laser, when he hit Jugo, was stationary for a while, and then dodged the laser?

Oh wait, its not the same thing. He has not time to evade an Oodama Rasengan from Naruto and his clones right after running right into a Naruto clone, nor does he know where the original is since he can mix with his clones, nor can he blitz Naruto before the latter can react. Instead of using Oodama Rasengan, they'd be able to use multiple FRS to kill him instead.

Naruto is not hitting Ei.

He'll hit him, quite easily at that.

Yak = Fodder compared to Ei,

Liger Bomb is one of Ay's strongest attacks, and that Yak's attack caused a crater far deeper than Liger Bomb and far wider. "Fodder to Ay" isn't an argument or a counter argument.

KCM Naruto said that if he took a direct hit from V1 Ei it would have been GG, SM Naruto is not more durable then KCM Naruto.
[/QUOTE]

Also, we are talking about horizontal/vertical chop which is a piercing attack, a regular sword was able to pierce through SM Madaras skin, who is far more durable then SM Naruto, lightning chop cuts his hands off.

Lol, based on what?

They have unlimited endurance as an Edo Tensei, so any cells that would have been destroyed in the process, would have not made a difference as an Edo, but they sure as hell would if he was a living human.

Unlimited endurance=/=Higher durability. For his cells to be destroyed it'd have to pierce him first, except it can't pierce him, as shown and stated. Him being an Edo Tensei had nothing to do with it, at all.

No, Ei will knock the clone out of the way and hit the real one.

Ay stopping to hit the clone period, or doing anything at all gives Naruto enough time to hit him with Rasengan.

If he noticed that Naruto is making a Oodama rasengan he will dodge. Jūgos laser has a larger AoE then Oodama Rasengan.

He isn't going to notice anything at all when Naruto has over a dozen clones covering him, and Jugo's laser having a larger AoE than Rasengan is completely irrelevant to the point. He won't have time to dodge, its really that simple.

Dude, don't be ignorant. You are smart enough to understand what I am saying, the example was simply support, its common sense. The same affinity attack could offset one another, just like Sasukes chidori did with Eis armour or Kakashi did with Gian, another affinity cannot offset another affinity.

I understand what you are saying, and I'm asking for the proof. Cause so far THERE IS NONE WHATSOEVER. Get proof that Chidori pierced him because of its element and not its power.

If Common Sense is the best evidence you have, then this portion of the debate might as well be over as "Common Sense" isn't any form of an argument, its what people do when they have no argument.

Don't play me for a fool, mangapanda is about as far from a Viz translation as it possibly gets.

Lol. I've posted Mangapanda, ***********, and VIZ, so I don't really care which translation you prefer, cause they all say the same thing that fuels my point.

Either way, he says sense better, not give better reflexes, and then he adds "with this I can dodge the enemy at the last moment" to support my argument.

Meaning he can react faster. Better sensing=Faster reaction. EMS Sasuke will react faster than MS Sasuke because he has better precognation. Its not that hard a concept to grasp.

 

[Scooby Doo]

SM Naruto beat the 3rd Raikage who is supposed to be stronger than Ay.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Gonna need proof for this, cause so far nothing backs up your claims, at all.

He pours more chakra into his armour, FACT. The more chakra he puts into his armour the larger and more effective it becomes, FACT.

Lol, his other clones . Or did we forget that he can make well over even 4 clones, not to mention he can

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And how in the world is him Shunshin'ing, hitting a clone and Naruto taking that time to hit him with Rasengan, the same as Ay dodging Jugo's laser, when he hit Jugo, was stationary for a while, and then dodged the laser?

That's not a Oodama Rasengan buddy. Ei charges, Naruto makes a clone, Ei hits the clone while Naruto makes the rasengan, Naruto attacks Ei and Ei dodges.......heck, Ei could just follow up on the real one while he is making the clone like Madara followed up on Sai.

Oh wait, its not the same thing. He has not time to evade an Oodama Rasengan from Naruto and his clones right after running right into a Naruto clone, nor does he know where the original is since he can mix with his clones, nor can he blitz Naruto before the latter can react. Instead of using Oodama Rasengan, they'd be able to use multiple FRS to kill him instead.

Why the hell not? Is the Naruto clone holding him down? No, the clone goes poof once it gets hit, there is absolutely nothing stopping Ei from dodging the Oodama Rasengan in the exact same way he dodged the Laser. Naruto would need to make the clone, Shunshin far away, make another clone, make FRS and throw it before Ei hits his clone and shunshins to him, that's not happening.

He'll hit him, quite easily at that.

He won't hit him, let alone easily.

Liger Bomb is one of Ay's strongest attacks, and that Yak's attack caused a crater far deeper than Liger Bomb and far wider. "Fodder to Ay" isn't an argument or a counter argument.

Seems you completely ignored the part where Ei's regular punch would have KO'd KCM Naruto if he did not block. And your also wrong the Yak part, not only did Ei's liger bomb create a much larger crater, but most of his damage was soaked up by Susanoo and he had no momentum whatsoever, while the Yak had plenty of momentum.

Lol, based on what?

Did you miss the part where he tanked an attack from every single Biju? I would be hard pressed to find a feat that would allow Naruto to tank a hit from just one Biju.

Unlimited endurance=/=Higher durability. For his cells to be destroyed it'd have to pierce him first, except it can't pierce him, as shown and stated. Him being an Edo Tensei had nothing to do with it, at all.

Do you know how FRS works? It attacks the cells, there won't be any visible damage if the character has some decent durability, the real damage would be on the inside.

Ay stopping to hit the clone period, or doing anything at all gives Naruto enough time to hit him with Rasengan.

First of all, he does not need to stop to hit the clone, he hits the clone and continues on his journey of blitzing. Secondly, even if he did stop, it would only be for a split second, not enough time for Naruto to land a blow.

He isn't going to notice anything at all when Naruto has over a dozen clones covering him, and Jugo's laser having a larger AoE than Rasengan is completely irrelevant to the point. He won't have time to dodge, its really that simple.

Now Naruto can make over a dozen SM clones? (And don't bring up the feats in the Kurama world, where Hachibi's hand tanked Kuramas Bijudama). And even if he does, Ei blitzes all of them. He WILL have time to dodge, like you say, its that simple.

I understand what you are saying, and I'm asking for the proof. Cause so far THERE IS NONE WHATSOEVER. Get proof that Chidori pierced him because of its element and not its power.

If Common Sense is the best evidence you have, then this portion of the debate might as well be over as "Common Sense" isn't any form of an argument, its what people do when they have no argument.

Raikiri neutralized Gian. Chidori neutralized Lightning Armour. Why did Kakashi not use another Jutsu to stop Gian?

Meaning he can react faster. Better sensing=Faster reaction. EMS Sasuke will react faster than MS Sasuke because he has better precognation. Its not that hard a concept to grasp.

So now better sensing = reacting faster? So Karin has better reaction speed then Minato? What a great argument that is LOL. This concept is flawed, I don't see why anyone would want to grasp this concept. Better precognition helps react better, but it does not automatically give better reflexes. Especially not way better reflexes.