There's no plot twist coming soon guys - it's over.

Zol

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
94
E
And he just so happened to have his 'lingering spirit' equipped with the power to seal his mother?

And that 'lingering spirit' reconstituted himself from Madara's chakra to summon Naruto, Sasuke, and team back WHILE REVIVING DEAD KAGE?

Naruto knew where Black Zetsu was hiding all along but the Sage of Six Paths didn't once notice Black Zetsu?

He left behind a prophecy to the Tailed Beasts saying that they would one day be shown the correct path while he sends his 'lingering spirit' to 'see what happens to Ninshuu?'

He knew exactly what would happen.

And where did the chakra he gave to humans for the purpose of Ninshuu come from in the first place? It was said to be part of the Ten Tails' chakra... so... what gives?

The Sage has been playing innocent all of this time - but he's always been acting. He's silenced Naruto's questions regarding Kaguya.

Which is another interesting little tidbit.

Kaguya - this woman who sought the power of the fruit to put an end to the suffering of humans, who also gave that fruit's power to her sons, decided to all of a sudden turn into an autocratic monster who hated her own sons and wanted nothing more than to reclaim chakra?

Something isn't quite right there.

Of course - Naruto was convinced to seal her before actually getting any kind of a story out of her. You know - the guy who normally talks with his enemies and finds some understanding in them (even if he still has to kill them). He doesn't even bother with Kaguya. He's just: "Yeah - let's seal this *****!"

He's going to find out, very soon, that he should have bothered to hear what the Sage did not tell him about her.


He never revived "dead Kage", he called their spirits (temporarily obviously), which isn't really farfetched seeing he is a powerful spirit himself. And why do you keep mentioning him being a "lingering spirit" as if it was some completely farfetched theory when it is a fact he is one?

What do you mean with Naruto knowing where BZ was hiding? Naruto knew that where was this evil servant of Madara, and thatt's what Hagoromo saw through Naruto. He had no idea of BZ being Kaguya's trumpcard for revival.

Kaguya turning evil from power is strange, but Hagoromo, who never ever was shown to have a hidden agenda at all suddenly being revealed as an evil villain isn't?
 

valandil988

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,077
Reaction score
117
If this is the end it sucks on a level that's over 9000.

If this is the end Kishi really doesn't give a fk anymore.
 

Darth Uchiha

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
4,221
Reaction score
264
If this is the end it sucks on a level that's over 9000.

If this is the end Kishi really doesn't give a fk anymore.

Jeez, I swear, the Naruto fan base is just like the Star Wars fan base, all you guys ever do is complain, complain, complain.
 

Aim64C

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
3,681
Reaction score
608
He never revived "dead Kage", he called their spirits (temporarily obviously), which isn't really farfetched seeing he is a powerful spirit himself. And why do you keep mentioning him being a "lingering spirit" as if it was some completely farfetched theory when it is a fact he is one?

There is a reason for the way I write. Bluntly, it's because I have a deeper knowledge of what is going on and am drawing attention to key phrases you should be googling alongside "sage," "Six Paths," "Eight Trigrams," "Tomoe," and other such phrases that would be of interest to you if you wish to understand what Kishimoto is saying.

Unfortunately - it is essentially lost on western audiences because they see it as a bland sitcom devoid of artistic expression and relevance ('cartoons' in Japan have long been a means of expressing symbolism and conveying complex ideas since before the days of the printing press and comic books).

I can't force you to learn. Only show you the way:



"What is the image of the ideal person, the sage (sheng ren), the real person (zhen ren) in the DDJ? Well, sages wu wei, (chs. 2, 63). In this respect, they are like newborn infants, who move naturally, without planning and reliance on the structures given to them by others (ch. 15). The DDJ tells us that sages empty themselves, becoming void of pretense. Sages concentrate their internal energies (qi). They clean their vision (ch. 10). They manifest plainness and become like uncarved wood (pu) (ch. 19). They live naturally and free from desires given by men (ch. 37) They settle themselves and know how to be content (ch. 46). The DDJ makes use of some very famous analogies to drive home its point. Sages know the value of emptiness as illustrated by how emptiness is used in a bowl, door, window, valley or canyon (ch. 11). They preserve the female (yin), meaning that they know how to be receptive and are not unbalanced favoring assertion and action (yang) (ch. 28). They shoulder yin and embrace yang, blend internal energies (qi) and thereby attain harmony (he) (ch. 42). Those following the dao do not strive, tamper, or seek control (ch. 64). They do not endeavor to help life along (ch. 55), or use their heart-mind (xin) to “solve” or “figure out” life’s apparent knots and entanglements (ch. 55). Indeed, the DDJ cautions that those who would try to do something with the world will fail, they will actually ruin it (ch. 29). Sages do not engage in disputes and arguing, or try to prove their point (chs. 22, 81). They are pliable and supple, not rigid and resistive (chs. 76, 78). They are like water (ch. 8), finding their own place, overcoming the hard and strong by suppleness (ch. 36). Sages act with no expectation of reward (chs. 2, 51). They put themselves last and yet come first (ch. 7). They never make a display of themselves, (chs. 72, 22). They do not brag or boast, (chs. 22, 24) and they do not linger after their work is done (ch. 77). They leave no trace (ch. 27). Because they embody dao in practice, they have longevity (ch. 16). They create peace (ch. 32). Creatures do not harm them (chs. 50, 55). Soldiers do not kill them (ch. 50). Heaven (tian) protects the sage and the sage becomes invincible (ch. 67)."

What do you mean with Naruto knowing where BZ was hiding? Naruto knew that where was this evil servant of Madara, and thatt's what Hagoromo saw through Naruto. He had no idea of BZ being Kaguya's trumpcard for revival.

Come now, let's think about this.

Naruto was able to sense where Black Zetsu was. Using abilities very similar to the Sage (and abilities the Sage could be said to have as the Jinchuriki of the Ten Tails).

How, then, could the Sage have missed Black Zetsu?

The only person to claim Zetsu was unnoticed by the sage is Black Zetsu. He seemed rather adamant about excusing the Sage - so that leads me to suspect that Black Zetsu is -not,- in fact, a creation by Kaguya. He might be created -from- Kaguya - but not -by- Kaguya.

The alternative is that Black Zetsu was not unnoticed but simply allowed to be.



You will find a more lengthy explanation and supporting evidence there.

Kaguya turning evil from power is strange, but Hagoromo, who never ever was shown to have a hidden agenda at all suddenly being revealed as an evil villain isn't?



This is the most likely explanation for why Kaguya suddenly changed.

Hagoromo, in his attempt to relieve his mother of her suffering (or perhaps for some other reason), sealed away her compassion for humanity so that she could leave the Earth behind and finally take her place amongst the divine beings.

Her compassion, however, was keeping her from carrying out the duty that was assigned to her. Every thousand years, an Ototsuki consumes the fruit of the God Tree tended by the Uzumaki. The Ototsuki then uses the chakra to gaze upon the Dao/Tao using the Byakugan, before ascending to the realm of divine beings.

With the power of the fruit distributed amongst her children and humans, and her compassion for said creatures removed in the attempt to get her to let go of things that caused her pain - she set forth to reclaim all of that chakra and fulfill her duty (although the whole army part might also be revenge against the Ototsuki for bestowing a duty upon her that caused her such grief).

These two threads also explain in great detail why the Sage has always been GeDo - Misguided.





There are two others you might find of interest along these same lines:





Some of the older threads are quite antiquated and I've learned a lot more since then.

Of course - this is the thread 'to rule them all.'



That is the theory that was compiled out of over a year of research, discussion, and debate.

What is unfortunate is that western audiences have absolutely none of the ground work to really begin to understand the symbolism and the deeper message. They simply see "Kishimoto ripped of DBZ" or "It's just like [insert movie]."

I understand why this is - Americans have been fed sitcoms, movies, and cartoons with self-concluding plot lines where the only expectation is depictions of violence, humor, or a combination thereof. The idea that a comic book is used as a means of communicating philosophical ideas/concepts is about as alien to us as Moon Rabbits are.

Of course - even a cursory look at Japanese culture will reveal the reverence for Princess Kaguya, the Moon Rabbit, beings like the Kitsune, etc. It's all there if you want to learn about it. You just have to be willing to accept the idea that the 'comic' was written for a different culture intending to convey deep meanings. Therefor you have to study the culture enough to catch the references to decipher the meaning.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
244
Reaction score
12
I just want to quickly point out the editor's note that was missing in the MangaPanda translation, but made it into the *********** translation. It says:

"The long strands of fate finally end here..."

Take that as you will. I think it's over. If it weren't over, you'd think the editor's note would be something more along the lines of "Kaguys is sealed, but is the battle truly over?" It's still quite possible, but the editor's note seems, to me, that it's implying it's over.
 

Aim64C

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
3,681
Reaction score
608
I just want to quickly point out the editor's note that was missing in the MangaPanda translation, but made it into the *********** translation. It says:

"The long strands of fate finally end here..."

Take that as you will. I think it's over. If it weren't over, you'd think the editor's note would be something more along the lines of "Kaguys is sealed, but is the battle truly over?" It's still quite possible, but the editor's note seems, to me, that it's implying it's over.

That's because the power of the fruit is the power to decide destiny.

It is the divine inspiration that allows one to view the Tao - it is True Yang - the Divine Elixir.

Everything up to this point has been part of Destiny. Now the next thousand years of Destiny will be cast by the one who wields the power of the fruit.
 

Mistraal

Leaf Village Regular 🍃
Regular
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
656
Reaction score
52
kaguyas backstory, hamura, ninja tools, spiral zetsu, bijuu, sasuke, kages, rds, oro?

those are on my mind.

The stupid fruit too that was supposed to appear. None of this has been settled.

If Kishi ends it now it would be a disgrace.
 

valandil988

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,077
Reaction score
117
That contrasts against GeDo. That is the same conclusion that Taoists and Buddhists came to, separately. Seek to do nothing, yet never leave anything in your life undone. That is the Hyuuga way.

As fancy as that sounds it doesn't mean anything. The classic oxymoron of, "Do Nothing to Do Something" doesn't really hold water with me its just a fancy way of stating something unrealistically idealistic.

Then in that case my own brand of rampant procrastination which means I "Seek to do nothing" yet always end up doing it is completely correct. Yep always knew I was a highly evolved being.

I agree with it in terms of Naruto but in reality its just as meaningless as everything else.

Jeez, I swear, the Naruto fan base is just like the Star Wars fan base, all you guys ever do is complain, complain, complain.

Yeah so? Do you disagree? Do you like the ending if it is indeed the ending? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.
 
Last edited:

QuimicVital

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
92
Reaction score
8
How could this be the end? Kishi's a good writer, and it's very basic for any writer to have a climatic ending. It's called climax. Anyone can tell that was not one. I'm sure he didn't draw such a creepy face for Hagoromo in the very end, with that very suspicious last phrase, for no apparent reason. Plus we've been having so many new puppetmasters as final villains it shouldn't even be surprising.
 
Last edited:

valandil988

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,077
Reaction score
117
How could this be the end? Kishi's a good writer, and it's very basic for any writer to have a climatic ending. It's called climax. Anyone can tell that was not one. I'm sure he didn't draw such a creepy face for Hagoromo in the very end, with that very suspicious last phrase, for no apparent reason. Plus we've been having so many new puppetmasters as final villains it shouldn't even be surprising.


Finally some sense :p
 

Aim64C

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
3,681
Reaction score
608
As fancy as that sounds it doesn't mean anything. The classic oxymoron of, "Do Nothing to Do Something" doesn't really hold water with me its just a fancy way of stating something unrealistically idealistic.

Then in that case my own brand of rampant procrastination which means I "Seek to do nothing" yet always end up doing it is completely correct. Yep always knew I was a highly evolved being.

This is as silly as saying that starving one's self is Wei Wu Wei.

There are things that must be done, yet one never seeks to impose what is done. Eating because you are hungry or working because a task needs accomplished is perfectly natural and normal.

Forcing yourself to eat is not natural and often results in abnormal behavior from the body. There is a time to eat and a time not to eat. There is a time to exercise discipline and a time to yield to instinct.

Even the 'unnatural' can be 'natural' within the course of leaving nothing undone.

That is actually the entire plot that is about to unfold. Naruto is the child of prophecy -because- nothing must be left undone. It is now time for the Uzumaki and the Hyuuga to finish what was started. Hagoromo must be laid to rest. The power of the fruit must be used to cast the next shadow of destiny. The Holy Tree must be restored to its natural role.

Chakra is now natural to people - to remove it from them is just as unnatural as originally giving it to them was. Although a vehicle for removing their chakra without necessarily killing them has been introduced (since everyone is under IT - there is probably some way, using the fruit, to bring about that eventuality - it's the Galactic Lay-Line).

If you really want to know who the true Sage in the series is - it's Jiraiya.

He lived within his abilities and passed on his ideals naturally. He died in peace and was content to leave the future in the hands of those who succeeded him. He did the best he knew to do and let the future handle the future.

This is in stark contrast to the behavior of the Sage - who is operating against the teachings of Buddhism and Taoism.

Jiraiya, on the other hand, is a very good example of the life of a Sage. He's turned a flaw (perversion) into an asset (author of smut that people enjoy). He offered training/advice only when it was sought - and left much of the work to be done by his student to learn his own lessons.

I agree with it in terms of Naruto but in reality its just as meaningless as everything else.

To the wise, there is meaning to be found in anything. To the foolish, anything is found to be meaningless.

Not everything that is meaningful is useful - a distinction worth making in this discussion; but the only way something can be meaningless is if you are incapable of applying whatever it is to your being. Finding something meaningless (particularly when it comes to philosophy) is generally an admission that you lack the ability to grow/learn as a person.

Not every meaning may be immediately useful - and not every meaning is going to have universal application. Nor will every meaningful thing have life-changing implications. But there is always an opportunity to take the experience just had and apply it to your development as a person. That which can't be found meaningful should be pondered when time is available. The more meaningless something appears, generally, the more profound the meaning is when you discover it.

Of course - two identical things can mean ten completely different things to two different people.
 
Top