Serious Question - Prime Hiruzen, how good was he?

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

After seeing how he used 5 elements with Kage Bushin using only but one seal is testament enough how powerful he was.

Kishimoto always live up to the hype.

this. that shit WAS impressive. way more impressive then that little bullshit battle hiruzen fapboys use as their backing of their hiruzen god theory. everyone that understands what's going on in the story would arrive at the conclusion that the jutsu was imperfect at the time, hence look at how it was used during this world arc. if those two hokages were battling it out with full power back then against Saru, konoha would have been literally buried under the first-sama's juts in a blink of an eye.

only guy (without rinnegan) to ever show full compatibility and mastery of all elements like he did.

well maybe mdi also is capable, but not all 5 at once through kagebushin. really impressive that scene.

although when i realized that she could use two pairings of elemental combination blood limits... that shit blew my mind. the sheer genius of that without specific blood relations to clans with such jutsus, just blows my mind i tell ya.

Steam and lava.... c'mon that shit is incredible. it's said that being able to do one blood limit without having that blood is almost impossible ( but feasible )... BUT TWO?

Mei is beast as well.

 

[Dantee]

yea... in the opening few chapters of a series that just had begun and has been going on now for 15 years.... dude shit like that is irrelevant. It was to grab the attention of the audience as to how magnificent, important and just the will of fire in general was as it embodied itself into a human being called the hokage.

also those words came out of hiruka explaining a buncha little kids how amazing their leader was. Of course Hiruzen is a God to Iruka... can he even use ninjutsu? hahahaa

Further down in the manga Hiruzen in his prime claimed he was the strongest in the group even with Tobirama present.

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There is some truth to this Prime Hiruzen statement after all eh? Oro himself was scared to fight him without the 1st two hokages backing him up. Use that head for a second.

2014rs? hahahaha wow bro you're cool. jimmies not rustled at all eh? this coming from a 2012th-er hahahahaha

Yeah I'm cool and my jimmies never rustled by some noobs logic and unability to read the manga.

 

[ᖇ α z m α η]

Believe the hype .​

 

[NSUNSR]

The fact that Iruka stated that Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, doesn't mean that this statement is true. Hiruzen is below Hashirama in everything:feats, hype, portrayal... Hiruzen could be the second strongest hokage though.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

It is stated in the acutal manga that at his prime he was the strongest of all the Hokage? I find it hard to believe that he was stronger than Hashirama. But Kishi wrote it, why? Is the Hiruzen hype real?

It is real, except Kishimoto changed his mind of Hiruzen being stronger than Hashirama. It was clever how he retconned it, saying that Hashirama's true power was a fairy tale. So really, Hiruzen was more powerful than people thought Hashirama was.

But it was still stated that Hiruzen
>Ei
>Onoki
>Yagura
>Gaara Sr.
>Danzo
>Orochimaru
>Minato
>Tobirama
>/= 7 Gated Gai

The fact that Iruka stated that Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, doesn't mean that this statement is true. Hiruzen is below Hashirama in everything:feats, hype, portrayal... Hiruzen could be the second strongest hokage though.

1. Iruka said Hiruzen "was" the strongest Hokage, and Hiruzen retorted "What do you mean 'was'?" So Hiruzen also stated he was stronger.

2. However, Hiruzen and other people didn't know how powerful Hashirama was going all-out. This makes Hiruzen the 2nd most powerful.

 

[Seventh Sama]

He's probably the strongest shinobi without a KKG or a bijuu.

 

[Rikudo SenninKun Namikaze]

Further down in the manga Hiruzen in his prime claimed he was the strongest in the group even with Tobirama present.

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There is some truth to this Prime Hiruzen statement after all eh? Oro himself was scared to fight him without the 1st two hokages backing him up. Use that head for a second.


Yeah I'm cool and my jimmies never rustled by some noobs logic and unability to read the manga.

hahaha rustled.

inability to read? obviously you can't even see that you lack the same ability as the other guy supposedly. Hiruzen was talking to Danzo, and referring to "all of us" as in, " all of us youngsters here with the 2nd. The second wasn't actually included because he was clearly the stronger one hence him saying to sarutobi no i won't let you sacrifice yourself because he had a way higher chance to make it back alive.

hiruzen just had a higher chance of coming back alive after being the decoy out of past-choji, past-ino, past-danzo and past-shisui, because he was stronger than all his comrades from his graduating class there.




oooh, i forgot... edit...

noobs? wow man that's the g@_|/3st word i HAVEN'T heard in a while hahaha sad. because i bet you're referring to the post count being the "new" part. although that's not what shows it, it's obviously when we signed up to the service and site and started using it. haha so sad.

so many flaws for someone that says he's flawless... although it makes sense. only one with tons of flaws would call themselves perfect. hahaha so sad.

 

[Dantee]

hahaha rustled.

inability to read? obviously you can't even see that you lack the same ability as the other guy supposedly. Hiruzen was talking to Danzo, and referring to "all of us" as in, " all of us youngsters here with the 2nd. The second wasn't actually included because he was clearly the stronger one hence him saying to sarutobi no i won't let you sacrifice yourself because he had a way higher chance to make it back alive.

hiruzen just had a higher chance of coming back alive after being the decoy out of past-choji, past-ino, past-danzo and past-shisui, because he was stronger than all his comrades from his graduating class there.




oooh, i forgot... edit...

noobs? wow man that's the g@_|/3st word i HAVEN'T heard in a while hahaha sad. because i bet you're referring to the post count being the "new" part. although that's not what shows it, it's obviously when we signed up to the service and site and started using it. haha so sad.

so many flaws for someone that says he's flawless... although it makes sense. only one with tons of flaws would call themselves perfect. hahaha so sad.

You should feel bad. Your post is assumptive at best Hiruzen was talking about everyone Tobirama included. He even said he wouldn't die which Tobirama surely did at the end of the fight Lol. Looks like you ran out of argument and now you're rambling about bs. You even negged me for not replying when you took longer to reply back to me. Stop acting like a child when the argument doesn't go your way. I have a manga scan and you have your assumptions good luck in fantasy land.

Oh and yeah I said noob rofl. Calm down and eat a snickers

 

[startup97]

Spoiler

Believe in the Hype

Spoiler

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Hiruzen knows all Hidden Leaf Jutsu which equals =
Hiruzen (sarutobi clan)
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning
Fire Release: Great Flame Technique
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet
Earth Release: Earth Flow River
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)
Telescope Technique


Hiruzen w/ Enma
Beast Human Clone
Dynamic Marking
Fang Passing Fang
Fang Rotating Fang (Manga only) - Capable of crushing stone
Fang Wolf Fang - The power is great enough to dent a Rashōmon gate
Four Legs Technique
Human Beast Combination Transformation: Double-Headed Wolf
Passing Fang


Aburame Clan
Secret Technique: Insect Gathering
Insect Clone Technique
Human Cocoon Technique
Insect Jamming Technique
Insect Jar Technique
Parasitic Destruction Insect Technique
Secret Technique: Insect Cocoon
Secret Technique: Insect Sphere
Secret Technique: Insect Tornado
Spindle Formation

Akimichi clan
Butterfly Bullet Bombing
Calorie Control
Double Human Bullet Tank
Human Bullet Tank
Multi-Size Technique
Partial Multi-Size Technique
Spiked Human Bullet Tank
Super Multi-Size Technique
Super Open Hand Slap

Nara clan
Black Spider Lily
Shadow Gathering Technique
Shadow Imitation Shuriken Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Shadow Sewing Technique
Shadow–Neck Binding Technique

Yamanaka Clan
Mind Body Disturbance Technique
Mind Body Switch Technique
Mind Clone Switch Technique
Mind Disturbance Dance Performance Technique (Anime only)
Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique
Yamanaka Clan Telepathy

Uchiha Clan
Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson
Manipulating Windmill Triple Blades
Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment

Other Hidden Leaf Tech
Water Clone Technique
Water Release: Water Colliding Wave (Anime only)
Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique
Water Release: Water Encampment Wall
Water Release: Water Trumpet
Chidori
Demonic Illusion: Hell Viewing Technique
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
Earth Release: Multiple Earth-Style Wall (Anime only)
Eight Gates
Evil Sealing Method
Eye Mind Reading
Front Lotus
Lightning Beast Running Technique
Lightning Cutter
Lightning Release Shadow Clone
Lightning Transmission (Manga only)
Lion Combo
Multiple Shadow Clone Technique
One Thousand Years of Death
Rasengan
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Imitation Technique
Eight Trigrams Mountain Crusher
Eight Trigrams One Hundred Twenty-Eight Palms
Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven
Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms
Eight Trigrams Thirty-Two Palms
Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm
Eight Trigrams Vacuum Wall Palm
Hyūga Main Family's Juinjutsu
Palm Bottom
Protection of the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms
Water Needle
Shadow of the Dancing Leaf
Silent Killing
Summoning: Earth Release: Tracking Fang Technique
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough
+ Neutalizer technique, Ghost Transformation, Bringer of Darkness and all 8 Gates at will.

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"The sandaime, in particular, was a genius nicknamed the 'Professor,' and was called the strongest of all the Hokage".

the Sandaime was the strongest.

Databook 1, Page 117

The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.

Databook 1, Page 119

"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.

DB2 Pg 84
Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

"Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills." DB2 Pg 84

Konohamaru paragraph:

Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage.

He who even holds the affectionate name of "Professor," being well-versed in every jutsu that exists in the village of Konohagakure

 

[startup97]

Seeing how he was capable of using all 5 Elements to an A rank level simultaneously with clones in a weakened Edo State with 1 hand seal is good enough for me.

 

[Dantee]

Seeing how he was capable of using all 5 Elements to an A rank level simultaneously with clones in a weakened Edo State with 1 hand seal is good enough for me.

The hype is to real.

 

[startup97]

The hype is to real.

Can't wait for the Hokages to spice things up when they reach Kaguya.

 

[Dantee]

Can't wait for the Hokages to spice things up when they reach Kaguya.

Same I hope the sage can power the third into his prime.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

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Viz says that Hiruzen at age 16 has accomplished more than Tobirama has in his entire lifetime.

 

[startup97]

Same I hope the sage can power the third into his prime.

Can't wait to see it happen. It's amazing to think that Kishi never forgot his past hypes back from 100's of chapters ago.

He never forgot the hype of the 8 Gates, the Byakugan being older than the Sharingan, the reference with Kakashi stating to team 7 that he doesn't "like" them and now states that he "loves" them. All these examples from 100's of chapters ago proves that Kishi never forgot the Hype and will eventually prove Hiruzen worthy of his title.

 

[startup97]

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Viz says that Hiruzen at age 16 has accomplished more than Tobirama has in his entire lifetime.

Believe in the Hype!

 

[Dantee]

Can't wait to see it happen. It's amazing to think that Kishi never forgot his past hypes back from 100's of chapters ago.

He never forgot the hype of the 8 Gates, the Byakugan being older than the Sharingan, the reference with Kakashi stating to team 7 that he doesn't "like" them and now states that he "loves" them. All these examples from 100's of chapters ago proves that Kishi never forgot the Hype and will eventually prove Hiruzen worthy of his title.

Exactly haters will be irate during these upcoming chapters.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

this. that shit WAS impressive. way more impressive then that little bullshit battle hiruzen fapboys use as their backing of their hiruzen god theory. everyone that understands what's going on in the story would arrive at the conclusion that the jutsu was imperfect at the time, hence look at how it was used during this world arc. if those two hokages were battling it out with full power back then against Saru, konoha would have been literally buried under the first-sama's juts in a blink of an eye.

That wasn't prime Hiruzen, either.

 

[ChrisWolf]

First of all he had a lot more chakra which means he could use many different and larger scale jutsus at once, plus make many shadow clones.Secondly he mastered every jutsu in the leaf which means with more chakra and all that jutsu he could combine shadow clones with sealing techs large scale fire style jutsu with wind style, water style with wind, he could use shadow shuriken techs and mix fire and wind style with those....

we can also assume that in his Prime he would of been able to use the 8 gates very well as well since that is a jutsu of the leaf, although we don't know that for sure some of you may have good reason to believe he couldn't but you can see where my logic lies at least.You combine all these techs and more coming one after another then you realize he can attack in a variety of different ways allowing him the perfect strategy for every situation. Thirdly after seeing his massive earth wall against Edo tobi and his large firstyle tech we can surmise that in his prime with more chakra he could use a variety of more large scale jutsu and combine them using them consecutively for more effect, so maybe he isn't
Quite as large scale of a fighter as madara or hashi but you can see how in his prime he could make up for it or come close.

Fourthly in his young age he would of been much quicker and more agile which means he would be able to use other techs much easier then the older version we saw against oro so that does give him a slight more advantage then the 69 year old version we saw. Fifthly he has enma, enma can transform into a large Bo staff which can change size and length and seems to be extremely powerful and durable.....in his young age, no, in his prime hiruzen would have been a serious beast with it. Imagine how much more deadly a youthful hiruzen would have been with the staff....

Going by all these details, not counting the reaper death seal, I say he could put up a better match against hashi or madara in his prime then any other Kage at this point in the manga.

 

[Dantee]

First of all he had a lot more chakra which means he could use many different and larger scale jutsus at once, plus make many shadow clones.Secondly he mastered every jutsu in the leaf which means with more chakra and all that jutsu he could combine shadow clones with sealing techs large scale fire style jutsu with wind style, water style with wind, he could use shadow shuriken techs and mix fire and wind style with those....

we can also assume that in his Prime he would of been able to use the 8 gates very well as well since that is a jutsu of the leaf, although we don't know that for sure some of you may have good reason to believe he couldn't but you can see where my logic lies at least.You combine all these techs and more coming one after another then you realize he can attack in a variety of different ways allowing him the perfect strategy for every situation. Thirdly after seeing his massive earth wall against Edo tobi and his large firstyle tech we can surmise that in his prime with more chakra he could use a variety of more large scale jutsu and combine them using them consecutively for more effect, so maybe he isn't
Quite as large scale of a fighter as madara or hashi but you can see how in his prime he could make up for it or come close.

Fourthly in his young age he would of been much quicker and more agile which means he would be able to use other techs much easier then the older version we saw against oro so that does give him a slight more advantage then the 69 year old version we saw. Fifthly he has enma, enma can transform into a large Bo staff which can change size and length and seems to be extremely powerful and durable.....in his young age, no, in his prime hiruzen would have been a serious beast with it. Imagine how much more deadly a youthful hiruzen would have been with the staff....

Going by all these details, not counting the reaper death seal, I say he could put up a better match against hashi or madara in his prime then any other Kage at this point in the manga.

I agree completely. People aren't seeing the possibilities Hiruzen as in his prime state. He mastered all elements!