Although I do agree with you, but we still don't know of the details of that battle. Whose to say that both Mu and Onoki didn't want to utilize an island radius Jinton (or any type of Jinton for that matter) because of the innocent civilians within the vicinity?
They weren't in any kind of busy area. There is nothing but that one building near where they were at, so bystanders can't be an excuse. What the manga shows and heavily implies is that a Madara not going all out>>Mu and a younger Onoki. Onoki believes this as well, only more proof that the result was because of Madara's strength, and not any limitations they put on themselves.
Mu was on the floor along with Onoki. Meaning Mu got his ass beat too. Unless you think he was playing on the floor for the lulz...lmao. Onoki not saying us doesn't mean Mu didn't fight too, it only means he only referenced himself. Especially when Mu was shown on the floor with Onoki. Don't try and deny manga fact.
And no. Anyone who is objectively looking at that panel knows that they aren't standing, they are laying on the floor.
"ABC Logic is trash" is a poor excuse. Madara having PS doesn't mean anything as its inferior to Shinsuusenju in size, destructive capacity, and it can take as much damage as PS can before being rendered completely useless. Don't know why we are even talking about PS considering Madara shat on Mu and Onoki without going anywhere near full power let alone using Perfect Susanoo.
Mu beating Hashirama, when the weaker/on par Madara spanked him without going full power is a joke.
ok let's forget this thread, let's forget hashirama
I'm only asking you for one panel, where's Madara fighting Mū, as you said " Madara already spanked these two "
where did you know that ? How did you know the battle's details ? By simply saying Madara stomped him ? Mū might fly and said " I don't give a fk about onoki"
I personally believe that Madara's visual prowess allowed him to see Mu. In fact I think any MS user is able to see Mu, but that's just special action on my part.
On topic:
By Hype, Hashirama should win.
However realistically and logically speaking, the Particle style should stomp Hashirama into the ground.
There's no way Hashriama can possibly detect Mu, nor can he reach or catch either of the two simultaneous. A huge jinton from both Tsuchikage in the air should be enough to kill Hashirama.
ok let's forget this thread, let's forget hashirama
I'm only asking you for one panel, where's Madara fighting Mū, as you said " Madara already spanked these two "
where did you know that ? How did you know the battle's details ? By simply saying Madara stomped him ? Mū might fly and said " I don't give a fk about onoki"
I don't need to know the battle's details to know the conclusion. I don't care what happened during the fight because the manga already showed the result. Mu had Onoki's help yet he was laying on the floor, defeated, and Madara was standing up right, appearing to be perfectly fine. Meaning Mu got shat on. That simple. I've already provided the panels. If you want to deny them, go ahead. It won't change the facts.
Onoki's largest Jinton was made with Tsunade buffing his chakra, and it was nowhere near the size of the turtle island. Onoki ran out of chakra against Madara, and he didn't do anything that comes close to using a Jinton the size of the Turtle Island. Conclusion? Onoki nor Mu can use a Jinton that large until they show it.
Not to mention if they get that far away, Hashriama would easily evade it, since Edo Madara was closer and still managed to evade Jinton. In fact he let himself get hit. Lol.
What about further away from the building? Weren't they at Iawagukre?
KidGamer65 said:
What the manga shows and heavily implies is that a Madara not going all out>>Mu and a younger Onoki. Onoki believes this as well, only more proof that the result was because of Madara's strength, and not any limitations they put on themselves.
Onoki's largest Jinton was made with Tsunade buffing his chakra, and it was nowhere near the size of the turtle island. Onoki ran out of chakra against Madara, and he didn't do anything that comes close to using a Jinton the size of the Turtle Island. Conclusion? Onoki nor Mu can use a Jinton that large until they show it.
Also, Mu solemnly stated that "numbers mean nothing to me" to Onoki. Doesn't that insinuate that they both could contrive island radius Jintons? Just curious.
Also, Mu solemnly stated that "numbers mean nothing to me" to Onoki. Doesn't that insinuate that they both could contrive island radius Jintons? Just curious.
I know, but I'm looking for actual refutations. I never picked a side. I'm just trying to continue the debate.
Dude. I don't need to look at their feats when Madara canonically shitted on Mu without going full power. No need to look at feats when the manga pretty much tells me the conclusion.
He could kill the island, or he could destroy most of it if not all of it by doing what he did with the Flower Tree World and moving his beam around. No way that he's making one the size of that island.
And he said that he was running low on chakra so it'd be his last shot. Byakugo chakra has shown to power up people's jutsu. And once again, what Onoki did in that battle would require less chakra than a turtle island sized Jinton, and he still ran out of chakra.
And what's stopping both Onoki and Mu from using conical Jintons that don't require charge times, to pulverize Hashirama's Wood Release techniques?
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I'm not picking any sides. I'm merely attempting to further the debate. Thank you.
All Jinton requires a charge time. That's a fact. It not being explicitly shown doesn't change that. A charge time that Hashirama takes advantage of. The moment they try to use Jinton, he counters and kills them with Mokuton.
Doesn't Hashirama going into Sage Mode require prep time, of which he has to stand in a stationary state to gather natural energy? Making him open to a Jinton, maybe?
Doesn't Hashirama going into Sage Mode require prep time, of which he has to stand in a stationary state to gather natural energy? Making him open to a Jinton, maybe?
lol at Kidgamer's posts about portrayal. "EMS Madara was stronger than them so Hashirama is stronger too." It doesn't work like that. Let's stick strictly to feats.
Jinton tears through any of Hashirama's defenses and two jinton users swinging large-scale jintons around like a laser sword is not something Hashirama can avoid. Having no intel makes it even worse for Hashirama since he will try to block it and not dodge.
Onoki and Mu also have defensive capabilities that counter Hashirama's ninjutsu; the majority of Mokuton formations are rendered useless due to flight and myonomijin (whatever it's called, those wooden gate things that Hashirama slammed down on the Juubi) are countered as well: Mu senses them and dodges, and Onoki uses Lightened Boulder to counter (the same way he stopped Madara's meteor.)
lol at Kidgamer's posts about portrayal. "EMS Madara was stronger than them so Hashirama is stronger too." It doesn't work like that. Let's stick strictly to feats.
That's how strength works buddy. Match ups are another thing, but Hashirama poops on them even with that. Arguing that they stand a chance no matter what is dumb anyway...but I'll humor you people.
Jinton tears through any of Hashirama's defenses and two jinton users swinging large-scale jintons around like a laser sword is not something Hashirama can avoid. Having no intel makes it even worse for Hashirama since he will try to block it and not dodge.
Jinton needs to be charged, Madara already evaded it in canon, and the bold is fanfic. In no way can they use Jinton like that. For a swing? Yeah. As some kind of sword? No. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Onoki and Mu also have defensive capabilities that counter Hashirama's ninjutsu; the majority of Mokuton formations are rendered useless due to flight and myonomijin (whatever it's called, those wooden gate things that Hashirama slammed down on the Juubi) are countered as well: Mu senses them and dodges, and Onoki uses Lightened Boulder to counter (the same way he stopped Madara's meteor.)
If they even get in the air before getting obliterated by Hashirama, all they can do is fly to evade his techniques. He'd simply outlast them if they tried this tactic.
Myojinmon=/=Chakra. So Mu isn't going to sense it, and the counter for Onoki is legit.
