[Theory] The Copy Eye Wheel

Rabbit Teth

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The Copy Eye Wheel

The Copy Eye Wheel is the Sharingan, or at least its English translation. There are a lot of explanations about how it works but they don’t fit together. That’s not to say that Kishi has made some kind of mistake. In fact I think we’re not supposed to understand the eyes yet … it is still something of a mystery. I thought I’d overhaul some of what are taken to be mangafacts and show how the real story of the Sharingan is much more complicated.

A lot of the characters in the manga have ideas about how the Sharingan works but none of them are privy to the bigger picture that we as readers are. It is ironic that the ones with the sharpest vision are blind to what is going on around them but I think that is exactly what has been happening.

In order to illustrate this bigger picture you need to go through the different stages of the eyes. Almost every explanation of the Sharingan has been shrouded in misconceptions. As the characters learn of the deceptions they have been led to believe, so do we. With each deception that is uncovered we are learning more and more of a plot to corrupt the Uchiha in order to achieve an as yet unspecified goal.

Stage 1 Sharingan
Not all but most Uchiha we’ve met have awakened the Sharingan. The Uchiha have normal eyes unlike the Hyuuga, until they achieve their first tomoe. The Tomoe is the comma that develops around the pupil. The tomoe is a primarily decorative symbol but can be used to represent other things (I’ll get to what the Tomoe represents later).
Madara gets his when he turns his back on Hashirama
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Obito gets his second tomoe when protecting Kakashi and racing to save Rin
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Sasuke obtains his third Tomoe as part of his determination to catch up to Naruto who had surpassed him.
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Traumatic experiences seem to awaken the eye more than any amount of training, even in the initial stages.
Stage 2 Mangekyo
While not all Uchiha have Sharingan, only a very few are able to transcend its limits and acquire the Mangekyo. In order to acquire the Mangekyo Itachi tells Sasuke that he must kill his best friend. Since then we’ve learned that none of those who acquired Mangekyo killed their best friend. The proximate causes vary but the trigger appears to be loss or the breaking of bonds and the hatred that it fed.
You must kill your best friend:
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Uchiha / Best Friend
1. Madara + Izuna
The first Uchiha for generations to achieve the Mangekyo were Madara and his brother. We do not know what triggered their eyes. We are first shown them using their eyes in action. We do know however that Madara did not kill Hashirama. We can speculate that their father’s death prompted them to awaken their eyes because the MS is how and why they took control of the clan.
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2. Obito / Kakashi
Obito did not kill Kakashi. Because Obito and Kakashi shared the eyes when they both awakened the Mangekyo together we cannot be sure what the exact trigger was. Obito saw Kakashi kill the girl he loved. Kakashi put a chidori through her chest when she jumped in the way of his chidori (more on that later).
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3. Itachi / Shisui
Itachi did not kill Shisui. From Itachi’s account (which seems pretty reliable) – Shisui killed himself and handed his remaining eye to Itachi for safe keeping to prevent it falling into the wrong hands. Shisui then plunged himself into the river and was washed away. We’re not sure how or when either Shisui or Itachi awakened their eyes. I would speculate that Itachi awoke his when seeing his friend die and that Shisui awoke his in his battle with Danzo (which we can expect to see in the future).
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4. Sasuke / Naruto
Sasuke did not kill Naruto. He obtained MS after Itachi gave his life to free Sasuke of Orochimaru. It could be said that Sasuke killed Itachi but I think it’s more accurate to say that Itachi exhausted himself. Itachi only developed his eyes after he learned the truth of his brother’s sacrifice (I’ll explain the time delay later):
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Even more so than during stage 1 emotional responses to extreme circumstances seem to be the trigger behind the development in the eye.
Stage 3 Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (EMS)
If the myths around MS are shaky, then the myths around EMS are downright suspicious. I lose count of all the accounts we’ve been told about the origin of EMS. Itachi tells Sasuke that one brother must kill and take the eyes of the other:
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Madara tells us that he did not kill his brother and that Izuna handed him his eyes voluntarily. He maintains that Tobirama was responsible for killing Izuna:
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The next logical conclusion would be that it is not necessary to kill your brother…you just need to transplant the eyes of another Uchiha.

Well that would be simple enough but many Uchiha seem to have tried that and all that happened was that they slaughtered each other:
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Instead the eyes are just one component. What distinguishes Madara and Sasuke from all the rest of their clan is not just that they were able to transplant a brother's eyes.
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This might be the full explanation… but the driver behind the process seems to have been BZ. Both Madara and Sasuke have been put into a position where they thought they needed to obtain power and they have been encouraged to break natural laws against fratricide (think Cain and Abel) to do it.
Black Zetsu
What stands out about Black Zetsu is how he has been operating from the shadows for a long time.
Black Zetsu was behind Indra and the lies in the Naka Shrine Tablet:
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…and he conspired to keep wars going between Senju and Uchiha / Indra and Asura hosts:
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When Tobirama said that the Uchiha was cursed by hatred he was not wrong. It is not an accident that the Uchiha keep on losing the ones they love. Almost every progression of an Uchiha’s eyes has been the result of either BZ or Orochimaru or both conspiring behind the scenes.
For more on the Axis between Orochimaru and BZ


Recap - The Curse of Hatred is at the heart of the Samsara. This is the Wheel that makes up part of the name of the Sharingan. At the heart of the Sasmara are three animals that represent the delusions the practitioners endeavor to overcome. The Snake represents the Curse of Hatred:
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If you look closely at the Wheel you can see what the three tomoe and the triple axis of most of the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan is supposed to represent. The Sharingan is a Mandala - a geometric representation of heavenly forces … mostly they represent the curse of hatred and the Samsara which represents the forces of destruction spurring on the path to enlightenment:
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Where there are exceptions to this rule it is because the eyes are not reflecting the Hatred that gave rise to their techniques but something else. Sasuke for instance awoke his from the realization of his brother’s self sacrifice – his MS represents Kannon – who is a goddess of compassion and is represented by the Hexagram which also represents the six realms:
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Kannon
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The secret is quite literally in the eyes.

My theory to explain why the eyes reflect so much hatred is that BZ and Orochimaru have been conspiring to lay waste to any chances of happiness for the clan by engineering the deaths of loved ones, triggering vendettas and conspiring using their pawns (Madara and Tobi are both pawns and victims, while Danzo is just a pawn).
Hence the mysterious and as yet unexplained crises that seem to befall the Cursed clan:
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BZ was there behind Indra:
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BZ was lurking around during the battles between Madara and Hashirama:
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BZ was there watching the battle between Naruto and Sasuke (his very first appearance):
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BZ was in Obito / Spiral when he witnessed Rin’s death (Obito uses the black rods that belong to BZ in the ensuing battle):
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A monument to hate:
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Danzo (Orochimaru’s puppet) sets in motion the Uchiha Massacre:
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…while the Uchiha uprising could have been the result of BZ's machinations (pure speculation):
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… and both BZ and Orochimaru are there to “witness” Sasuke’s fight with Itachi:
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BZ spreads the curse which corrupts the Eyes:
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Orochimaru spreads the curse which corrupts the body:
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Orochimaru has been waiting for a very long time for the right host:
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The only thing he thinks that can stop him is if Sasuke were to be killed:
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… and so he and BZ have worked to make sure the spinning wheel (the Samsara) puts the snake back where it belongs… on top:
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**For more on the Axis between Orochimaru and BZ and their puppets Kabuto and Madara / Tobi**
Some closing comments
The eyes don’t develop with training but because of emotional reactions to events around them. The shape of the Tomoe and the abilities the eyes possess reflect the emotional response and the experience that triggered its awakening:
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If Sharingan means Copy Eye Wheel then this is what the Eye “copies” - the chakra in the brain. The Eyes also allow users to copy techniques used by others but this is not where they took their name from. The Uzumaki are able not only to sense chakra but are also able to determine the emotional state of those around them. Karin undertstands that Sasuke is consumed by hatred (cold):
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…. and that Naruto is full of love (warm):
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This is what is also reflected in the colour of each character’s Susanoo. The shade and tone of Itachi’s is warm while those of Sasuke and Madara are cold.
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Of all the characters only Tobirama seems to have any idea of the workings of the Sharingan. He took Madara’s body after the Valley of the End in order to learn its secrets and his conclusions provide the closest explanation that fits with how the eyes work:
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The eye is not even essential to the powers of the Sharingan. Madara is able to operate Susanoo without his eyes:
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...and Itachi was still able to use Susanoo when the light went from his eyes:
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Kakashi receives the power of the Sharingan not through an eye transplant but through an exchange of chakra:
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Tobirama, through his experiments on the body of Madara after his defeat at the Valley of the End, discovered that the power of the eyes is all in the chakra in the brain.
Experiments:
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Conclusions:
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The Clan is not necessarily evil or destined to become evil. BZ and Orochimaru have been going to great pains to make sure that the only things their eyes reflect is hatred.

Some speculation

When Kakashi’s gift runs out of time he may develop his own unique brand new Sharingan that would be an MS uncorrupted by hate. Only then will we get to see what else the eyes can reflect.
This was Sasuke’s first use of Amaterasu .. his second he performed with his own MS
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***Edit - Post Script on KKG and Genes***
The science of KKG is even messier than the science of the Sharingan. KKG means bloodline limit but don’t let the name confuse you, there is very little reason to believe that the techniques are purely a genetic inheritance. Simply having the right genes is no guarantee that you will inherit a technique.

Two examples jump to mind.

1. Mokuton – no other senju except Hashirama have been able to use mokuton as far as we know. Orochimaru forced the DNA of Hashirama onto 60 different children in order to try and replicate the technique. Orochimaru probably killed Nawaki (Tsunade’s brother and Hashirama’s grandson) in order to try and understand the technique. Mokuton is not a genetic inheritance either to the clan or to those who have been cloned from Hashirama.
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We don't know why Yamato succeeded where so many others failed. Perhaps he just had the right nature affinities to be compatible with Hashirama's technique. Perhaps he had some awakening like the Uchiha have all had while in a Oro's lab (it's probably in the filler somewhere).

2. Magnet release is also not a unique to one branch of families. The third Kazekage is said to have learnt the technique by trying to copy Shukaku. Just as Bijuu bombs were copied by Minato in order to make Rasengan Shape manipulation so too was Magnet release copied from the Bijuu.
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NB Naruto now has Magnet release as one of his new KKG(?) release Rasengans:
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To understand KKG’s there are two miscellaneous pieces of information to keep in mind:

A KKG is simply the ability to perform two nature transformations at once:

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*** on a side note - Mokuton is Earth (Doton) and Water (Suiton) which at least in theory balances out the Blaze Release (Enton as used in Susanoo / Amaterasu / Kagetsuchi…) of the Uchiha which probably (unconfirmed) mixes Fire (Katon) and Lightning (Raiton) – interestingly Naruto has the fifth element which holds the balance between the two***

Second, it is possible to mix more nature tranformations together in order to achieve a Kekkai Tota. There is only one character currently able to mix three nature elements together at once and that is Onoki through his Dust release. What is important about this technique is that it specifically does not appear to have been inherited (despite KKT meaning Bloodline Inheritence). Onoki was taught the technique by Muu (who we have no reason to believe is at all related to Onoki):

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The Uchiha KKG, the Sharingan can not only be transplanted and used effectively – it can be passed to Kakashi through chakra alone …much to Sasuke’s surprise:
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When Kakashi says that you need to be born into a bloodline in order to acquire a KKG, he is mistaken. What the Sharingn cannot copy is chakra which all comes from the Shinju and not any particular clan:
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Bloodline limits that are exclusive to clans are the exception and not the rule. Chakra is the most important element and if chakra can break down the barriers between heaven and hell then it shouldn’t be a surprise that it can break the constraints of genetic inheritance.

Ultimately, all techniques were inherited from Kaguya. Kaguya appears to have only had two children and there are more than two KKGs that were passed down to specific tribes. Kaguya herself only obtained Chakra by eating the fruit of the Shinju.

That makes me think that the tribes are not as pure as most people might think. If you go back a thousand years (in the real world), studies have shown that any two people not from an isolated island community, will have common ancestors – the same appears to be true in the Narutoverse.

Naruto is not a manga about the supremacy of eugenics. It is a manga about spirit (chakra) overcoming any obstacle – physical (i.e. genetic) or otherwise.

This is just a theory - I could be totally wrong. If you've got any ideas of your own or disagree with any of my speculation then please feel free to comment below.
 
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Rabbit Teth

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I think that the Sharingan was a Kekkai Genkai and came from a Person' genes; not his chakra.
I won't lie… I was waiting for somebody to bring up genetics and the clans.

The science of KKG is even messier than the science of the Sharingan. KKG means bloodline limit but don’t let the name confuse you, there is very little reason to believe that the techniques are purely a genetic inheritance. Simply having the right genes is no guarantee that you will inherit a technique.

Two examples jump to mind.

1. Mokuton – no other senju except Hashirama have been able to use mokuton as far as we know. Orochimaru forced the DNA of Hashirama onto 60 different children in order to try and replicate the technique. Orochimaru probably killed Nawaki (Tsunade’s brother and Hashirama’s grandson) in order to try and understand the technique. Mokuton is not a genetic inheritance either to the clan or to those who have been cloned from Hashirama.
You must be registered for see images

We don't know why Yamato succeeded where so many others failed. Perhaps he just had the right nature affinities to be compatible with Hashirama's technique. Perhaps he had some awakening like the Uchiha have all had while in a Oro's lab (it's probably in the filler somewhere).

2. Magnet release is also not a unique to one branch of families. The third Kazekage is said to have learnt the technique by trying to copy Shukaku. Just as Bijuu bombs were copied by Minato in order to make Rasengan Shape manipulation so too was Magnet release copied from the Bijuu.
You must be registered for see images

NB Naruto now has Magnet release as one of his new KKG(?) release Rasengans:
You must be registered for see images

To understand KKG’s there are two miscellaneous pieces of information to keep in mind:

A KKG is simply the ability to perform two nature transformations at once:

You must be registered for see images
*** on a side note - Mokuton is Earth (Doton) and Water (Suiton) which at least in theory balances out the Blaze Release (Enton as used in Susanoo / Amaterasu / Kagetsuchi…) of the Uchiha which probably (unconfirmed) mixes Fire (Katon) and Lightning (Raiton) – interestingly Naruto has the fifth element which holds the balance between the two***

Second, it is possible to mix more nature tranformations together in order to achieve a Kekkai Tota. There is only one character currently able to mix three nature elements together at once and that is Onoki through his Dust release. What is important about this technique is that it specifically does not appear to have been inherited (despite KKT meaning Bloodline Inheritence). Onoki was taught the technique by Muu (who we have no reason to believe is at all related to Onoki):

You must be registered for see images

The Uchiha KKG, the Sharingan can not only be transplanted and used effectively – it can be passed to Kakashi through chakra alone …much to Sasuke’s surprise:
You must be registered for see images

When Kakashi says that you need to be born into a bloodline in order to acquire a KKG, he is mistaken. What the Sharingn cannot copy is chakra which all comes from the Shinju and not any particular clan:
You must be registered for see images
Bloodline limits that are exclusive to clans are the exception and not the rule. Chakra is the most important element and if chakra can break down the barriers between heaven and hell then it shouldn’t be a surprise that it can break the constraints of genetic inheritance.

Ultimately, all techniques were inherited from Kaguya. Kaguya appears to have only had two children and there are more than two KKGs that were passed down to specific tribes. Kaguya herself only obtained Chakra by eating the fruit of the Shinju.

That makes me think that the tribes are not as pure as most people might think. If you go back a thousand years (in the real world), studies have shown that any two people not from an isolated island community, will have common ancestors – the same appears to be true in the Narutoverse.

Naruto is not a manga about the supremacy of eugenics. It is a manga about spirit (chakra) overcoming any obstacle – physical (i.e. genetic) or otherwise.
 
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ROHAN

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I won't lie… I was waiting for somebody to bring up genetics and the clans.

The science of KKG is even messier than the science of the Sharingan. KKG means bloodline limit but don’t let the name confuse you, there is very little reason to believe that the techniques are purely a genetic inheritance. Simply having the right genes is no guarantee that you will inherit a technique.

Two examples jump to mind.

1. Mokuton – no other senju except Hashirama have been able to use mokuton as far as we know. Orochimaru forced the DNA of Hashirama onto 60 different children in order to try and replicate the technique. Orochimaru probably killed Nawaki (Tsunade’s brother and Hashirama’s grandson) in order to try and understand the technique. Mokuton is not a genetic inheritance either to the clan or to those who have been cloned from Hashirama.
You must be registered for see images

We don't know why Yamato succeeded where so many others failed. Perhaps he just had the right nature affinities to be compatible with Hashirama's technique. Perhaps he had some awakening like the Uchiha have all had while in a Oro's lab (it's probably in the filler somewhere).

2. Magnet release is also not a unique to one branch of families. The third Kazekage is said to have learnt the technique by trying to copy Shukaku. Just as Bijuu bombs were copied by Minato in order to make Rasengan Shape manipulation so too was Magnet release copied from the Bijuu.
You must be registered for see images

NB Naruto now has Magnet release as one of his new KKG(?) release Rasengans:
You must be registered for see images

To understand KKG’s there are two miscellaneous pieces of information to keep in mind:

A KKG is simply the ability to perform two nature transformations at once:

You must be registered for see images
*** on a side note - Mokuton is Earth (Doton) and Water (Suiton) which at least in theory balances out the Blaze Release (Enton as used in Susanoo / Amaterasu / Kagetsuchi…) of the Uchiha which probably (unconfirmed) mixes Fire (Katon) and Lightning (Raiton) – interestingly Naruto has the fifth element which holds the balance between the two***

Second, it is possible to mix more nature tranformations together in order to achieve a Kekkai Tota. There is only one character currently able to mix three nature elements together at once and that is Onoki through his Dust release. What is important about this technique is that it specifically does not appear to have been inherited (despite KKT meaning Bloodline Inheritence). Onoki was taught the technique by Muu (who we have no reason to believe is at all related to Onoki):

You must be registered for see images

The Uchiha KKG, the Sharingan can not only be transplanted and used effectively – it can be passed to Kakashi through chakra alone …much to Sasuke’s surprise:
You must be registered for see images

When Kakashi says that you need to be born into a bloodline in order to acquire a KKG, he is mistaken. What the Sharingn cannot copy is chakra which all comes from the Shinju and not any particular clan:
You must be registered for see images
Bloodline limits that are exclusive to clans are the exception and not the rule. Chakra is the most important element and if chakra can break down the barriers between heaven and hell then it shouldn’t be a surprise that it can break the constraints of genetic inheritance.

Ultimately, all techniques were inherited from Kaguya. Kaguya appears to have only had two children and there are more than two KKGs that were passed down to specific tribes. Kaguya herself only obtained Chakra by eating the fruit of the Shinju.

That makes me think that the tribes are not as pure as most people might think. If you go back a thousand years (in the real world), studies have shown that any two people not from an isolated island community, will have common ancestors – the same appears to be true in the Narutoverse.

Naruto is not a manga about the supremacy of eugenics. It is a manga about spirit (chakra) overcoming any obstacle – physical (i.e. genetic) or otherwise.
I was a bit surprised when this thread suddenly jumped out. o_o Very nice explanation nonetheless. I agree. U_U
 

NaruSasuRival

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This is one of the good theories on Sharingan. I also like the post on KKG, and I would encourage you not to take seriously those who are refusing the facts. In the manga, KKG when transmitted as bloodline limit assumed that people of the same bloodline share the same chakra nature. It is basically a chakra inheritence, and can be equate with gene if and only if chakra are tied to DNA, which I don't think is true because of Mokuton, etc.

On Sharingan, I have made a thread on BZ and the Sharingan - that is how BZ's eyes also hold the same basic powers as the Sharingan. I could relate Orochimaru also to the Sharingan to see how the Curse seal actually have some symbiotic relationship with the Sharingan. By symbiotic, I mean that the Curse seal power makes the Sharingan user stronger while feeding simutaneously on the Sharingan chakra.

Thus, it seems that Uchiha, BZ, and Orochimaru are actually linked by the hatred thingy, and therefore the Sharingan. In my opinion, Orochimaru created conditions to possess the Sharingan while I have started to believe BZ gave the Sharingan to Indra in order to control him.
 

Rabbit Teth

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nice theory
nice thread. i agrre completely tbh
Thanks

Sasuke got his third tomoe from awknowledging Naruto and his bond as friends,he already surpassed Naruto via CM,hence the ass kicking he gave Naruto before the got his third tomoe.
Naruto and Sasuke are always chasing each other. Sasuke was still bitter about his chidori not being up to scratch against Rasengan. I count Naruto and Sasuke as roughly on a par - I'm not really putting one ahead of the other in case it provokes any fanboy hate. The manga says that Sasuke's eyes reflect determination. At that moment he wants to catch up with Naruto in order to go on and face his brother (having read the phrase before I wrote this I then couldn't find the page to put it in the original post):
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This is one of the good theories on Sharingan. I also like the post on KKG, and I would encourage you not to take seriously those who are refusing the facts. In the manga, KKG when transmitted as bloodline limit assumed that people of the same bloodline share the same chakra nature. It is basically a chakra inheritence, and can be equate with gene if and only if chakra are tied to DNA, which I don't think is true because of Mokuton, etc.

On Sharingan, I have made a thread on BZ and the Sharingan - that is how BZ's eyes also hold the same basic powers as the Sharingan. I could relate Orochimaru also to the Sharingan to see how the Curse seal actually have some symbiotic relationship with the Sharingan. By symbiotic, I mean that the Curse seal power makes the Sharingan user stronger while feeding simutaneously on the Sharingan chakra.

Thus, it seems that Uchiha, BZ, and Orochimaru are actually linked by the hatred thingy, and therefore the Sharingan. In my opinion, Orochimaru created conditions to possess the Sharingan while I have started to believe BZ gave the Sharingan to Indra in order to control him.
Thanks. Normally most students have to be tested in order to check what nature affinity they have (the paper test). The Uchiha though all have a fire affinity.
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Interesting point about the eyes and Black Zetsu. I'd overlooked that when I originally read your thread. I was too busy writing this to pay proper attention but I think you could be right.

This is really only a theory for now. I've written a couple of theories on the same theme and I've been getting worried that I'm starting a new Tobidara era based around Orochimaru. I've got a couple more out there ideas but I tend to cut them out of the theories in case it dilutes the rest.

A rough idea I'd had was that BZ and Orochimaru might make up one whole. I put some of this in the other theory but the basic idea is that Oro and BZ are the yin and yang halves of Naga. Oro got the body and BZ got the eyes.

Somebody else wrote a theory speculating that BZ had byakugan. I disagree with that idea. It sort of looks true in the Manga but in the anime the eyes are the wrong colour. Interestingly though the colour of Oro and BZ's eyes both match up:
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Another random thought I had was that BZ could be Orochimaru's Dragon Sage Mode. BZ has all the qualities of the victims from Rychido (which ties him to the snakes and the Naga myth from my other theory):
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In the Naga myths, the snakes strive to transcend just as humans are able to. In order to to become like Buddha they must take human form and then they can reach enlightenment. I thought that this might be one of the reasons why BZ / Oro might want Sasuke's body. BZ and or Oro's Dragon Sage Mode could be what we were shown in the run up to the Gokage Meeting
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The only reason why Sasuke might not be ready is that he doesn't have enough hate yet. If this were true then it wouldn't bode well for Sakura. Now I'm just rambling.
 
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jiraiya nindo

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Nice theory. Just one point. You said the tsuchikage is the only person who can combine three elements together and that isn't all the way true. The tsuchikage isn't the only character that can do a kekkei tota. Technically, naruto by virtue of having his gudoudama means that he can combine at least 4 nature transformations thus exceeding the kekkei tota.
 

Rabbit Teth

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Nice theory. Just one point. You said the tsuchikage is the only person who can combine three elements together and that isn't all the way true. The tsuchikage isn't the only character that can do a kekkei tota. Technically, naruto by virtue of having his gudoudama means that he can combine at least 4 nature transformations thus exceeding the kekkei tota.
Onoki is the only (living) confirmed character to be able to combine three elements. It is a suspicion from Hiruzen that Obito was combining 4 elements but it is unconfirmed. I left it out to avoid getting distracted from the point that KKG and KKT aren't necessarily genetic - but you've got a point. Here are the references from the manga:
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I wrote another theory a while back that Madara might be able to combine all five elements into one attack. It is totally unconfirmed and there is a translation argument at the heart of it, but Madara makes reference to a technique called Ringa (which he decides against using). When I went looking for what Ringa could be all I could find were references to a Buddhist Crown called the Ringa Crown and a Ringa Buddha. The crown has five sides and the Budha is the Buddha of the Five Paths which led me to believe that Ringa might be the holy grail of the combined 5 element technique. I still think Madara might come back in some form so I hold out some hope for that theory:
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Hyuga Prodigy

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Nice theory It's interesting to note that BZ and orochimaru have conspired which almost took up the entire series. but I don't think the black rod belong to BZ. Just in the last chapter, BZ was pinned down by the black rod and couldn't move, and we all know that it's made of guadama.
 

Rabbit Teth

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Nice theory It's interesting to note that BZ and orochimaru have conspired which almost took up the entire series. but I don't think the black rod belong to BZ. Just in the last chapter, BZ was pinned down by the black rod and couldn't move, and we all know that it's made of guadama.
I don't really include any material to support that assertion in this theory but I do go into it in a lot more detail in the main theory of which this is a branch. The original theory was too long to fit into one post (I'm not even kidding). So I cut most of the Uchiha parts out which make up this thread. I think the Curse of Hatred goes a lot further than just the Uchiha and I think the black rods are just one component of it (including Obito's black rods pre Juubi Jinchuuriki stage, Nagato's black rods and the the black staff in the Gedo Mazo). For more check out the main theory and the section on Seishi:


This theory is probably getting to the stage where it will collapse in on itself. It could fall apart any chapter but it's fun to speculate.
 

Angelic.

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the black rods certainly show themselves at points when people lose it and go crazy. they change after. obitos when rin dies and nagatos from the gedo when yahiko died. but not sasuke tho...

also i think ringa is a mistranslation of limbo. r's and l's thing..
 

Rabbit Teth

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the black rods certainly show themselves at points when people lose it and go crazy. they change after. obitos when rin dies and nagatos from the gedo when yahiko died. but not sasuke tho...

also i think ringa is a mistranslation of limbo. r's and l's thing..
Yeah, I wrote the theory before I knew there was even any disagreement over the translation. It just goes to show you can find a matching myth for anything if you go looking for it. I don't speak japanese so I have no ground to argue what the Kanji says. From what I found usually limbo is written like so リンボ but in that instance it was written like this リンガ which was interpreted as Ringa by the Mangapanda translators. *********** went for Limbo if I remember correctly. Honestly I don't know whether that theory holds any water but I thought it was worth bringing up (it's sort of KKG / nature transformation related). I doubt many noticed or care.
 

ROHAN

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I wrote another theory a while back that Madara might be able to combine all five elements into one attack. It is totally unconfirmed and there is a translation argument at the heart of it, but Madara makes reference to a technique called Ringa (which he decides against using). When I went looking for what Ringa could be all I could find were references to a Buddhist Crown called the Ringa Crown and a Ringa Buddha. The crown has five sides and the Budha is the Buddha of the Five Paths which led me to believe that Ringa might be the holy grail of the combined 5 element technique. I still think Madara might come back in some form so I hold out some hope for that theory:
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Well, considering that the Rinnegan could manipulate all five elements; it's not far-fetched to say that he could combine all five into one element.
 
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