My Tier list

[ARGUS]

You underrate Madara. I think that unless the two teens used up their full power, they would have lost. And a Jutsu like IT (Which Hagoromo does not have) is a auto GG against anyone who does not have a Rinnegan.

I am not underrating madara at all
IT was already countered by Sasuke and Naruto, as Sasuke even managed to protect naruto through his susanoo, and the

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the fact is that NON JIN and really old Hagoromos fragments (naruto and Sasuke) pushed madara to his limits,
furthermore hagoromo already has a rinnegan, so he can counter IT rather easily, and even break it,

I am not underestimating madara, but prime hagoromo would wreck madara, he had every ability of the rinnegan, and his juubi was more complete in comparison to madara, who still lacked the 50% kyuubi,
hell you can even compare the CT of both the characters, near Death hagoromos CT managed to form the moon,
he can kill madara through his CT alone,

With the Jinchurikis and Gedo Mazu? I don't think so.

the bijuu are getting overwhelmed by SS and then restrained by mokuton variants,
and hashirama can also use his mokuton variants to catch the TBB and land them right on the bijuu
and if hashirama has intel on kamui, he can create several mokuton clones to disrupt obitos kamui based moveset and flower tree world to bypass his 5 minute limit

as for Edo madara, he can overwhelm the bijuu and restrain them through PS and mokuton variants respectively
and can then just like hashirama use his mokuton clones and flower tree world to counter obitos kamui,
kabuto himself stated that edo madara is superior to rinnegan tobi

I am iffy on this, I will think about it.

Whats there to be iffy about?
MS Obito would comfortably beat SM naruto, the latter wont be able to even land a hit on him, when BM/KCM Naruto struggled to do so, Onoki and the raikage on the other hand simply get wrecked,

Actually Naruto explicitly stated that he would not be capable of beating MS Sasuke after the Pein Arc. I think the War Arc closed that gap, but they are still around the same level. I believe that MS Sasuke's Enton and Amaterasu is more useful then anything in SM Naruto's Arsenal.

If we base on feats, then MS Sasuke and Pein arc SM Naruto are nigh equals, with Naruto edging him slightly
narutos FRS can destroy any susanoo variants bar V3 for sasuke which would burn him out completely,
and he can then use Frog Call to immobilise sasuke and make him lose his susnaoo, thus allowing him to end sasuke

war arc SM naruto needs COFRS and Frog Call and Sasukes is done for,
Frog Song and multiple FRS are just icing on the cake

Thanks man
I will make any confirmed changes tomorrow. Thanks for the contribution guys.

No problem
and gaara shouldnt be above second mizukage, sm naruto and third raikage either

 

[wael reda]

Sasuke is superior to Juubito IMO. The fact that he managed to land a good hit on One-Rinnegan Juudara leads me to believe that he would land a hit much more lethal on Juubito (Who is vastly inferior). PS is the game breaker.



Sasuke's PS >>> Kakashi's PS until we get some feats. Short Range Kamui is intangibility. I am not sure what you mean by dimensional portals. I can name you a couple counters to Kamui, not so much for Enton~Amaterasu.




Sasuke's PS is deadlier then anything Minato has in his arsenal IMO. On top of his Top Tier speed, S/T and Enton~Amaterasu.

Concerning Hashirama, I believe that Sasuke's PS has displayed more destructive feats then anything Hashirama has brought to the table.

With what sasuke is superior?
PS can be destroyed by v1 jiubi obito chakra arms which destroyed the barrier which tanked jiubi sized jiubidoma which will definitely stomp sasuke and his PS
Jiubiobito can evade PS sword by his speed
Yes ,sasuke was able to cut jiubimadara in half ,but there are many reasons make me think that sasuke won't be able to do the same with jiubi obi to

1-madara wasn't flying because he Was taking kakashi's eye but in general jiubi joins fighting style is fighting while they flying ,and sasuke couldn't have done what he did to jiubimadara ,if madara was flying

2-madara wasn't paying attention to assume ,his goal was to take kakashi eye and jump to the other dimension as fast as he can to take his riningan

3-madara's gudomas (which is the main defense to jiubi jins ) was taken away by minato

And even if sasuke managed to hit obito ,he still has super regeneration enabled him to regenerate after his right half was evaporated by his gudomas when he was trying to take control from jiubi
So sasuke has no way to win his offense can't kill jiubi jin and his defense can't stand against any jiubidoma
So jiubiobito is far above sasuke



NO,sasuke's PS isnot stronger than kakashi's ,both can fly and both of them is fast (kakashi 's showed a very good speed and mobility in the last chapter
If both of them can fly and both of them have the same speed and mobility ,what makes you think that kakashi's PS destruction would be inferior to sasuke

I meant by short range kamui that warping the enemy by touching him like obito was doing
Dimensional portals is what obi to used to save assume when kaguya took him to the desert dimension

Perfect Kamui is far above amatrasu and enton ,perfect kamui is better offense and much better defense than amatrasu and enton
You can compare enton and amatrasu to just offensive kamui though offensive kamui is still superior ,but there is no way to compare amatrasu and enton to all kamui abilities at the same time

That is way I think they are at the same level



I think bm avatar with its ttb ,multiple ttb and giant ttb can easily be combared to PS and enton
(minato can even teleport with his avatar since he touches his chakra ,then we have a teleporter bm avatar ,he can teleport his ttb directly on a mark next to the enemy or on the enemy by his s/t barrier ,also with his chakra arms ,spreading his marks in the battlefield and marking the enemy would be much easier )

That is why I think they are at the same level


Budaha is nearly bigger than jiubi and has 1000 arms ,the one arm can hold full kiubyi like a small cat
I think the destruction of this 1000 arms can be compared to sasuke 's PS 's ,also it can absorb chakra impressively

 

[Dave Stevenson]

bad list starts from seven

 

[PSYPHON]

This is list is so bad Kankuro is above Hidan Asuma Neji Choji Lee Darui probably and Mifune
I see some people underrastimate Kankuro too much

 

[Zee U]

Tier 7:

~Six Paths of Pein
~Killer Bee
~Naruto Uzumaki (KCM)
~Spiral Zetsu (Yamato filling)
~Kabuto Yakushi (DSM)
~Itachi Uchiha (Healthy Condition)
~Tobirama Senju
~Minato Namikaze (Base)

Tier 8:

~Mū
~Ōnoki (W/O Back problems)
~Sasuke Uchiha (MS)
~Ei (W/Both arms)
~Gaara (War Arc)
~Naruto Uzumaki (War Arc Sage Mode)
~3rd Raikage
~2nd Mizukage
~Danzo Shimura
~Hiruzen Sarutobi (Young)

Tier 9:

~Jiraiya (Sage Mode)
~Orochimaru (Healthy Condition)
~Might Gai
~Kisame Hoshigaki
~Shisui Uchiha
~Obito Uchiha (MS)
~Kakashi (War Arc MS)
~Itachi (Sick)
~Naruto Uzumaki (Pein Arc - Sage Mode)
~Sasori
~Sasuke Uchiha (Hebi)
~Deidara
~Kakuzu


Tier 10:

~Yagura
~Yugito Nii
~Fū
~Utakata
~Han
~Roshi
~Kinkaku
~Ginkaku

Tier 11:

~Obito Uchiha (Attack On Konoha)
~Jiraiya (Base)
~Tsunade
~Sakura Haruno
~Kakashi Hatake (MS Pein Arc)
~Orochimaru (Medium State of Sickness)
~Kimmimaro (Healthy Condition)
~Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
~Mei Terumi
~Hanzō (Mortal)

I'm gonna adress this, starting for tier 11.

- Kakashi under Sakura and Tsunade? Even if it was Pein Arc, he clearly has better feats.

- Isn't Sasuke immune to poison/highly resistant to it? Orochimaru himself drugged him. I highly doubt that Sasori's poison, neutralized by Sakura, is capable of incapacitating, let alone kill, Sasuke. But that's mostly speculation.

- Shisui shouldn't even be up there. KA is highly situational and Obito knows about it.

- Kisame, Gai and Jiraiya stronger than Obito? Gai has intel, but Kisame/Jiraiya both know nothing about Kamui.

- Hiruzen is pretty much featless and his hype has been retconned, i personally wouldn't put him past Hanzo, even when younger.

- How are Ei and Sasuke stronger than War Arc Naruto, who can summon Ma and Pa and stay in SM for a extended period of time? I adressed Sasuke vs Pre War Arc Naruto in

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thread, and Ei isn't winning againts Naruto, especially without intel on Frog Fu.

- Healthy Itachi is featless, so i guess you speculated a bit on his abilities. I won't adress his position.

- 6POP stronger than Bee and KCM Naruto?

 

[Inert Brian]

Pretty good list.

The only changes I would make are:

Drop Nagato to Tier 7, his power is
more compareable to them, than
the people in tier 6.

Move Spiral Zetsu up to Tier 6.

Ms Obito should be in Tier 7, not
tier 9. With Kamui he was capable
of taking on KCM Naruto, and Gai.

C is an elite jonin, he's in Tier 17?

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

I'm gonna adress this, starting for tier 11.

- Kakashi under Sakura and Tsunade? Even if it was Pein Arc, he clearly has better feats.

I actually disagree, his stamina was terrible, that's what brings him down against many opponents (Remember, this is general power levels, not circumstantial ones).

- Isn't Sasuke immune to poison/highly resistant to it? Orochimaru himself drugged him. I highly doubt that Sasori's poison, neutralized by Sakura, is capable of incapacitating, let alone kill, Sasuke. But that's mostly speculation.

Again, your talking circumstantial, this Tier list is based on overall power.

- Shisui shouldn't even be up there. KA is highly situational and Obito knows about it.

Obito knowing about it does not mean others do. I agree Koto alone is overrated, but apparently he was very fast and I don't doubt that he may have had Susanoo.

- Kisame, Gai and Jiraiya stronger than Obito? Gai has intel, but Kisame/Jiraiya both know nothing about Kamui.

Overall, MS Obito is overrated. He needs to touch you, and not many characters would let him do that. Clones (Which many characters can produce) is a good way to counter MS Obito, since Kamui is basically the only thing in his arsenal.

- Hiruzen is pretty much featless and his hype has been retconned, i personally wouldn't put him past Hanzo, even when younger.

His feats as an Edo (Making 4 clones and using huge elemental spam with each) was considered as something Young Hiruzen would also be capable of doing. Fact is, if his stamina is not poor, Hiruzen can be deadly.

- How are Ei and Sasuke stronger than War Arc Naruto, who can summon Ma and Pa and stay in SM for a extended period of time? I adressed Sasuke vs Pre War Arc Naruto in

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thread, and Ei isn't winning againts Naruto, especially without intel on Frog Fu.

Ei would blitz Naruto just as a blind Madara had done. There is no way Madara is faster then V2 Ei, and Naruto was only able to dodge with the speed of KCM. The 3rd Raikage was only as fast as V1 Ei mind you. As for Sasuke, Enton and Susanoo make him a far more dangerous opponent then SM Naruto, as their are few that can counter it. I have my debts about wether SM Naruto would win in a fight as well.

- 6POP stronger than Bee and KCM Naruto?

CST

With what sasuke is superior?
PS can be destroyed by v1 jiubi obito chakra arms which destroyed the barrier which tanked jiubi sized jiubidoma which will definitely stomp sasuke and his PS
Jiubiobito can evade PS sword by his speed
Yes ,sasuke was able to cut jiubimadara in half ,but there are many reasons make me think that sasuke won't be able to do the same with jiubi obi to

Obito's chakra arms are not even close to as strong as those of Kaguya's, and it took 4 of them to destroy PS. Juubito cannot evade his sword, EMS Sasuke was able to force Juubito into blocking with his 3rd Stage Susanoo. With his recent massive upgrade, Juubito is not dodging anything.

1-madara wasn't flying because he Was taking kakashi's eye but in general jiubi joins fighting style is fighting while they flying ,and sasuke couldn't have done what he did to jiubimadara ,if madara was flying

For half the fight against Tobirama/Minato/Naruto Juubit was on the ground........

2-madara wasn't paying attention to assume ,his goal was to take kakashi eye and jump to the other dimension as fast as he can to take his riningan

He was paying attention, he just did not care to counter. But Juubito's reflexes are worse then Juudara's, so I doubt he would even be capable of reacting to Sasuke.

3-madara's gudomas (which is the main defense to jiubi jins ) was taken away by minato

That's true.

And even if sasuke managed to hit obito ,he still has super regeneration enabled him to regenerate after his right half was evaporated by his gudomas when he was trying to take control from jiubi
So sasuke has no way to win his offense can't kill jiubi jin and his defense can't stand against any jiubidoma
So jiubiobito is far above sasuke

Not as good as that of Juudara's. and if he is on the ground, Sasuke can finish him off.

NO,sasuke's PS isnot stronger than kakashi's ,both can fly and both of them is fast (kakashi 's showed a very good speed and mobility in the last chapter
If both of them can fly and both of them have the same speed and mobility ,what makes you think that kakashi's PS destruction would be inferior to sasuke

Sasuke's PS's destructiveness is superior to that of Kakashis. Same goes for its durability. He has no feats with it, that's what makes me think its inferior.

I meant by short range kamui that warping the enemy by touching him like obito was doing
Dimensional portals is what obi to used to save assume when kaguya took him to the desert dimension

Kakashi won't be capable of touching many opponents, like I said, his PS is his best weapon.
He can't do that without Kaguya opening her dimension first and him using Kamui to get into it.

Perfect Kamui is far above amatrasu and enton ,perfect kamui is better offense and much better defense than amatrasu and enton
You can compare enton and amatrasu to just offensive kamui though offensive kamui is still superior ,but there is no way to compare amatrasu and enton to all kamui abilities at the same time

I agree that Kamui is a better defence, but its not a better offence.

I think bm avatar with its ttb ,multiple ttb and giant ttb can easily be combared to PS and enton
(minato can even teleport with his avatar since he touches his chakra ,then we have a teleporter bm avatar ,he can teleport his ttb directly on a mark next to the enemy or on the enemy by his s/t barrier ,also with his chakra arms ,spreading his marks in the battlefield and marking the enemy would be much easier )

We are talking about a meteor of which a small chunk, was as big as a mountain range, and PS cut the meteor up entirely. Nothing short of Jubidamas and Naruto's Bijudamas (Basically Jubidamas) are comparable to Sasuke's PS in terms of destructiveness (In terms of Bijudamas at least).

Budaha is nearly bigger than jiubi and has 1000 arms ,the one arm can hold full kiubyi like a small cat
I think the destruction of this 1000 arms can be compared to sasuke 's PS 's ,also it can absorb chakra impressively

Its destructiveness is comparable to Madara's PS swords + Bijudamas, but that's inferior to Sasuke's PS destructiveness.

Due to his close relation to her, he may not have considered the power of his Jinchuriki form as his own. He probably still recognized that power as his mothers. Though he did call her more powerful than his norm.​

​

I feel like that would be a stretch. I don't see what reason he would have to not talk about his peak of power.

There was a huge difference.

He went form getting blitzed by Base Rikudo Naruto to keeping up with Kurama Rikudo Naruto. He also became immortal as well as gained a large amount of the Juubi's power.​

​

He did not get blitzed, he actually reacted to his attack just fine. Furthermore, he was still injured (I am aware that he said that his injuries where not the reason why he was getting overpowered, but that does not change the fact that he was still recovering). He was basically immortal before absorbing the Shinju as well, he literally regenerated half his body.

Almost all of the characters in that tier and above have some sort of flight.

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for a period of time before he used Night Gai as well, yet Madara isn't in much worse condition. In fact, Madara's commenting on how Gai's attacks aren't working.​

​

They where working, he was spitting out blood. They just where not capable of putting on immense amount of damage.

Becoming mortal didn't boost his overall power but a small amount. The biggest boost it gave him was the full power of his Rinnegan, no longer having a fake. Though these powers don't really change the fact that they're all weaker than what he's already shown. Perfect Susano'O is his full power, that hasn't changed.​

He went from getting blitzed by Lee to blitzing SM Naruto, and then on top of that he got SM and was able to use Gedo Mazu.

He would be stronger than his Edo form, but his Edo form with the aid of an Edo Tensei Nagato and a Edo Tensei Itachi would be able to deadlock him.

Again, I don't see how they deal with Limbo, even if they see it, they won't be capable of harming it and they are not fast enough to get around the Limbo clone either.

By "hang" I mean he pushes Itachi to High Diff, I never said he beat him.​

​

I don't even think he can accomplish that much. Assuming SM Naruto means Naruto without the aid of Kurama, he is very prone to Genjutsu, knowing how weak he is to it. He had no way around Susanoo, not only because of its durability, but thanks to Yata Mirror. Which blocks all his Jutsu. And Amaterasu would limit his movements (Where he can go). I don't see Itachi having much trouble with SM Naruto.​

I am not underrating madara at all
IT was already countered by Sasuke and Naruto, as Sasuke even managed to protect naruto through his susanoo, and the

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the fact is that NON JIN and really old Hagoromos fragments (naruto and Sasuke) pushed madara to his limits,
furthermore hagoromo already has a rinnegan, so he can counter IT rather easily, and even break it,

IT was only countered thanks to Sasuke, Naruto would not be capable of countering it alone and neither would the people without a Rinnegan. Furthermore, they never really pushed Madara to his limits, he implied that he was toying with them right before he got the third eye. Hagoromo can counter it but other may not. IT makes Madara overall a deadlier opponent, does not mean he would win in a fight against him.

I am not underestimating madara, but prime hagoromo would wreck madara, he had every ability of the rinnegan, and his juubi was more complete in comparison to madara, who still lacked the 50% kyuubi,
hell you can even compare the CT of both the characters, near Death hagoromos CT managed to form the moon,
he can kill madara through his CT alone,

Madara also had every ability of the rinnegan. I think that the portion of the Shinju that Madara absorbed is worth just as much of chakra as the 50% Kurama + the little chakra he lost to Obito if not more. The CT moon is definitely odd hype, but I would go as far as to wager Madara could replicate it, as he used IT which is a world wide affecting Jutsu, as well as Jukai Koutan which was also a world wide technique, and he still has enough power to fight.

the bijuu are getting overwhelmed by SS and then restrained by mokuton variants,
and hashirama can also use his mokuton variants to catch the TBB and land them right on the bijuu
and if hashirama has intel on kamui, he can create several mokuton clones to disrupt obitos kamui based moveset and flower tree world to bypass his 5 minute limit

Yes, Hashirama can do that, but if he does that, by the time he restricts all the 6 Biju, he will be running low on stamina, and if he will not, he has to face Gedo Mazu, and he will definitely be running low on stamina after that. And then he has to face rinnegan Obito himself. Its too much.

Furthermore, having every single Biju as well as Gedo Mazu gives Obito the edge in variety which would be useful against other opponents.

as for Edo madara, he can overwhelm the bijuu and restrain them through PS and mokuton variants respectively
and can then just like hashirama use his mokuton clones and flower tree world to counter obitos kamui,
kabuto himself stated that edo madara is superior to rinnegan tobi

Same thing goes for Madara (Edo's can run out of stamina, as proven by Minato). Edo Madara is superior to Rinnegan Tobi, but not Rinnegan Tobi + 6 Biju + Gedo Mazu.

Whats there to be iffy about?
MS Obito would comfortably beat SM naruto, the latter wont be able to even land a hit on him, when BM/KCM Naruto struggled to do so, Onoki and the raikage on the other hand simply get wrecked,

I would not be so quick to say that. SM Naruto us reflexes that would allow him to avoid Obito's touch and hit Obito the second he try's to. Heck, he can do it with his SM clones (as proven against 3rd Raikage), so just in case something does go wrong, Obito will end up using Kamui on the clone, and I am pretty sure you know what would happen from their. Ei's speed makes him a deadlier opponent then MS Obito and Ōnoki can possibly even beat Obito. Jinton Haxx and GG Gravity Touch Haxx puts Ōnoki ahead of the guy.

If we base on feats, then MS Sasuke and Pein arc SM Naruto are nigh equals, with Naruto edging him slightly
narutos FRS can destroy any susanoo variants bar V3 for sasuke which would burn him out completely,
and he can then use Frog Call to immobilise sasuke and make him lose his susnaoo, thus allowing him to end sasuke

No. MS Sasuke's feats are superior to Pein Arc Naruto's. Destroying Susanoo is pointless because Sasuke can remake it, meanwhile, using FRS drains Pein Arc Naruto of half of his SM stamina, using another one would revert him back to base. At which point he simply gets blitzed.

war arc SM naruto needs COFRS and Frog Call and Sasukes is done for,
Frog Song and multiple FRS are just icing on the cake

Sure, but COFRS would take longer then FRS to make, he gets hit by Amaterasu. Even if Naruto where to win, they are still of the same Tier.

No problem
and gaara shouldnt be above second mizukage, sm naruto and third raikage either

Gaara's versatility puts him up their, there is no denying that Gaara is one if the most versatile characters in the manga, and that makes him deadly for a wider range of opponents, for example, MS characters like Itachi and Obito. ​

 

[Zee U]

Ei would blitz Naruto just as a blind Madara had done. There is no way Madara is faster then V2 Ei, and Naruto was only able to dodge with the speed of KCM. The 3rd Raikage was only as fast as V1 Ei mind you. As for Sasuke, Enton and Susanoo make him a far more dangerous opponent then SM Naruto, as their are few that can counter it. I have my debts about wether SM Naruto would win in a fight as well.



CST

Madara never blitzed Naruto. In fact, he put up a

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. Even then, that was a worn out Sage Mode Naruto after using a Chou Odama Rasenshuriken and fighting for an entire war, Madara was completely fresh and he used a Sunshin. Ei doesn't engage istantly in V2, even when bloodlusted (Sasuke fight), but assuming he does Naruto tracks and senses him and blocks his attack with his sage strenght. Ei's attacks are completely linear and Sage Mode's capabilities exceed those of KCM in regards to sensing and, of consequence, reactions. If Ei engages in CQC he either gets:

a. heavily damaged by a Senpou Rasengan, the same one that

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his father through the Raiton Armor and highly damaged Juubito to the point of making him

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. Pretty much the same when Sasuke chidori'd him, except he's now facing a faster opponent with better reactions, intel on his speed and better offense

b. thrown away by Naruto's superb physical strenght paired with Frog Fu

Not to mention that Naruto can always clone feint him with his Sage Mode clones. Summoning Ma and Pa won't even be necessary.

-----------------------------------

Using CST isn't a viable tactic againts either of his opponents:

- It takes time to charge and this time he would have his other paths on the field

- Bee can resist to it in Bijuu Mode since he managed to not die to his Bijuudama

- Naruto can use his number of clones to counter it: Pain won't know which one is real and if the real one is actually amongst them, so wasting chakra (and ST uses) on CST won't be exactly viable. Even then, Naruto, even after distributing his chakra to the entire alliance, survived to Tenpenchii. I doubt CST would kill him if it landed.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Madara never blitzed Naruto. In fact, he put up a

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. Even then, that was a worn out Sage Mode Naruto after using a Chou Odama Rasenshuriken and fighting for an entire war, Madara was completely fresh and he used a Sunshin. Ei doesn't engage istantly in V2, even when bloodlusted (Sasuke fight), but assuming he does Naruto tracks and senses him and blocks his attack with his sage strenght. Ei's attacks are completely linear and Sage Mode's capabilities exceed those of KCM in regards to sensing and, of consequence, reactions. If Ei engages in CQC he either gets:

Does not matter, Naruto was not able to dodge the attack, putting up a guard won't help against someone like Ei who would chop his arms clean off. Naruto was still in Sage Mode, that's all that matters. He instantly went V2 against Minato........

a. heavily damaged by a Senpou Rasengan, the same one that

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his father through the Raiton Armor and highly damaged Juubito to the point of making him

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. Pretty much the same when Sasuke chidori'd him, except he's now facing a faster opponent with better reactions, intel on his speed and better offense

lol Naruto won't be capable of doing anything short of putting his guard up, making a rasengan is completely out of the question. Sasuke just barely got through V1 with Chidori, he would have no made it through the thickness of V2. Rasengan is not doing any better. Ei's father was not injured from the Rasengan in the slightest, and Juubito's durability is weak to Sage Mode enhanced attacks (Just like his Goudodama).

b. thrown away by Naruto's superb physical strenght paired with Frog Fu

He's not getting punched away, Naruto is not reacting to V2. Period.

Not to mention that Naruto can always clone feint him with his Sage Mode clones. Summoning Ma and Pa won't even be necessary.

His clones also get blitzed. Only unlike him, they would pop if Ei just knocked them away. Ma and Pa would not be needed, I agree, because they would not make a difference against Ei.

- It takes time to charge and this time he would have his other paths on the field

He has his other Paths distract, while he 'charges' it and when he is done, he has the paths go 'offline' and uses CST.

- Bee can resist to it in Bijuu Mode since he managed to not die to his Bijuudama

CST > Bijudama.

- Naruto can use his number of clones to counter it: Pain won't know which one is real and if the real one is actually amongst them, so wasting chakra (and ST uses) on CST won't be exactly viable. Even then, Naruto, even after distributing his chakra to the entire alliance, survived to Tenpenchii. I doubt CST would kill him if it landed.

He does not have to know which one is the real one, he hits the entire battlefield with it. Tenpenchii is pretty fodder of a technique, it was only capable of destroying one of Madara's V2 Susanoo arms (Second weakest Susanoo version). Naruto is not tanking CST.

 

[Zee U]

Does not matter, Naruto was not able to dodge the attack, putting up a guard won't help against someone like Ei who would chop his arms clean off. Naruto was still in Sage Mode, that's all that matters. He instantly went V2 against Minato.......

A worn out Naruto wasn't able to dodge a surprise attack of a speedster like Madara. That doesn't mean nothing.
Chopping? Yeah, no. A imperfect sage like Jiraiya tanked a 100 meters Yak's

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, Liger Bomb, Ei's strongest attack causes a crater of... 2 meters Lol? Naruto won't even be fazed by that shit. Not to mention that if Ei does try to grab him he gets *****slapped into the oblivion.

He istantly went V2 againts a superior speedster. He does know nothing about Sage Mode Naruto.

lol Naruto won't be capable of doing anything short of putting his guard up, making a rasengan is completely out of the question. Sasuke just barely got through V1 with Chidori, he would have no made it through the thickness of V2. Rasengan is not doing any better. Ei's father was not injured from the Rasengan in the slightest, and Juubito's durability is weak to Sage Mode enhanced attacks (Just like his Goudodama).

Yes, he does. Unless you can establish why Ei can exceed SM's superb reflexes and Frog Fu. Senpou Rasengan is on a whole another tier than Sasuke's chidori. 3rd Raikage was injured, you can clearly see his arm cracking in the panel page i posted before. Juubito isn't weak to Senpou attacks, he is vulnerable to them. Let's not twist manga statements now.

He's not getting punched away, Naruto is not reacting to V2. Period.

Back up your assertion with an argument, please.

His clones also get blitzed. Only unlike him, they would pop if Ei just knocked them away. Ma and Pa would not be needed, I agree, because they would not make a difference against Ei.

No, they don't. Like Naruto's SM clone counter blitzed 3rd Raikage, Ei would be no different. Ma and Pa can easily paralyze Ei with Frog Song, letting Naruto Rasengan his face. Let's be serious there, those two frogs are a factor in nearly every fight.

He has his other Paths distract, while he 'charges' it and when he is done, he has the paths go 'offline' and uses CST.

Except mere paths aren't taking one on one Naruto's clones, let alone the real one. Assuming he pulls off one CST, Patsh being "offline" means nothing, since as you said those paths won't magically disappear from the battlefield and, of consequence, CST's aoe.

CST > Bijudama.

Back up your assertion.

He does not have to know which one is the real one, he hits the entire battlefield with it. Tenpenchii is pretty fodder of a technique, it was only capable of destroying one of Madara's V2 Susanoo arms (Second weakest Susanoo version). Naruto is not tanking CST.

The question is that he doesn't know if the real one is there, pal. Tenpenchii destroyed mountain ranges, a feat that immensely trumps Nagato's mere CST. Again, Susanoo wasn't fazed because Tenpenchii isn't a concentrated attack, let alone a concentrated attack on Madara himself. Naruto is, by feats.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

A worn out Naruto wasn't able to dodge a surprise attack of a speedster like Madara. That doesn't mean nothing.
Chopping? Yeah, no. A imperfect sage like Jiraiya tanked a 100 meters Yak's

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, Liger Bomb, Ei's strongest attack causes a crater of... 2 meters Lol? Naruto won't even be fazed by that shit. Not to mention that if Ei does try to grab him he gets *****slapped into the oblivion.

He istantly went V2 againts a superior speedster. He does know nothing about Sage Mode Naruto.

Umm yes it does, being worn out is not an excuse as he was able to fight for a long time afterwards and Ei is even more of a speedster then Madara in V2. And do you even have proof that he was worn out or are you simply assuming?

Your joking right? Ei's chops where able to casually crack Susanoo and even breach through Susanoo to hit Sasuke at one point. Madara's SM durability is far greater then Naruto's, and yet Sasuke was able to casually pierce through this durability with his sword. Ei's chop will cut Naruto's arms off clean off wether you like it or not. Why would Ei try to grab him when he's going for a chop? And no, Naruto can't react to him, so he is not slapping anyone.

Yes, he does. Unless you can establish why Ei can exceed SM's superb reflexes and Frog Fu. Senpou Rasengan is on a whole another tier than Sasuke's chidori. 3rd Raikage was injured, you can clearly see his arm cracking in the panel page i posted before. Juubito isn't weak to Senpou attacks, he is vulnerable to them. Let's not twist manga statements now.

I already have, if Madara can do it then Ei can as well. Quiet honestly, this is about as solid of evidence as one can possibly have, I don't see how you can disapprove this.

No his arm was not cracking, those where usual Edo cracks. You can see in the panel next to it that there was no visible damage done to his arm. Sure, he is 'vulnerable' to it, that does not change a thing in this context.

Back up your assertion with an argument, please.

I already have.

No, they don't. Like Naruto's SM clone counter blitzed 3rd Raikage, Ei would be no different. Ma and Pa can easily paralyze Ei with Frog Song, letting Naruto Rasengan his face. Let's be serious there, those two frogs are a factor in nearly every fight.

Yes they will. Of course Ei would be different, he's many times faster then the 3rd. Even Madara is a lot faster then him. Ma and Pa get blitzed, unless your going to assume that Naruto has mastered fusing with them, in which case they get blitzed together.

Except mere paths aren't taking one on one Naruto's clones, let alone the real one. Assuming he pulls off one CST, Patsh being "offline" means nothing, since as you said those paths won't magically disappear from the battlefield and, of consequence, CST's aoe.

If it is a BL battle, Nagato won't care if some of his paths get destroyed, he can easily replace them. Especially if the intent is to win at any costs. Animal Path would be a very good distraction, the other Paths can be Meatshields, it does not take long to charge it.

Back up your assertion.

Really? Are you under the impression that a Bijudama can destroy Konoha? Or even come close to it? A much smaller ST was able to destroy three boss summons that are of the same mold as Hachibi in terms of durability, a CST is destroying Hachibi.

The question is that he doesn't know if the real one is there, pal. Tenpenchii destroyed mountain ranges, a feat that immensely trumps Nagato's mere CST. Again, Susanoo wasn't fazed because Tenpenchii isn't a concentrated attack, let alone a concentrated attack on Madara himself. Naruto is, by feats.

Naruto would have to leave the battlefield, which he would not do even if he had full intel, as he would never know when Deva Path is about to use CST. So what? Point is, V2 Susanoo of Madara's would not be capable of tanking CST, and KCM Naruto's durability is no better then ribcage Susanoo, probably worse then even that considering the fact that V1 Ei's mere punch was hyped to have killed him if it landed directly (By Naruto himself whilst in the KCM state).

 

[Team7monaa]

Nice List ^_^

 

[Zee U]

Umm yes it does, being worn out is not an excuse as he was able to fight for a long time afterwards and Ei is even more of a speedster then Madara in V2. And do you even have proof that he was worn out or are you simply assuming?

Naruto didn't fight for a "long time" afterwards. He used BM for a few minutes, only to be stomped by Rinnegan Madara afterwards. I'm not using proof, i'm using common sense: Naruto panted heavily after the Kyuusanoo combo, created a Chou FRS, fought for an entire war, had his chakra spread to the alliance and do you think he wasn't worn out? Are we serious there?

Your joking right? Ei's chops where able to casually crack Susanoo and even breach through Susanoo to hit Sasuke at one point. Madara's SM durability is far greater then Naruto's, and yet Sasuke was able to casually pierce through this durability with his sword. Ei's chop will cut Naruto's arms off clean off wether you like it or not. Why would Ei try to grab him when he's going for a chop? And no, Naruto can't react to him, so he is not slapping anyone.

Erm, dude. I just showed you a scan of a freaking boss sized summon that put a freaking big hole into a freaking big METAL pipe, an attack that Jiraiya tanked. Are YOU joking, Mr. Killua? Ei's Horizontal Chop managed to break a Susanoo ribcage and lowly damage Sasuke, are you comparing that feat to the Yak's one?. Madara's SM durability isn't greater than Naruto's, unless you can prove it. A in training SM Naruto fell from a absurdly high rock into several stalagmites and wasn't even hurt and a incomplete SM Jiraiya tanked a giant Yak's attack that caused a hole so deep we didn't even manage to see its end. Madara was cut clean by Sasuke's normal chidori sword, do you seriously think that its durability is great, let alone "far greater" than SM Naruto? Yes, he can.


- Sensing and reflexes far greater than KCM Naruto's, as said by Naruto himself.
- A clone already counterblitzed 3rd Raikage at the last second, and the latter was AT least as fast as V1 Ei.
- KCM Naruto, not even experienced with his Sunshin, managed to react POINT BLANK to Ei's fastest attack

Then, i gladly ask you again for some PROOF on your part, since assertions aren't part of debates.

I already have, if Madara can do it then Ei can as well. Quiet honestly, this is about as solid of evidence as one can possibly have, I don't see how you can disapprove this.

Already did. Quite honestly, this "solid evidence" is just a mere misunderstanding or/and underrating SM Naruto's capabilities.

No his arm was not cracking, those where usual Edo cracks. You can see in the panel next to it that there was no visible damage done to his arm. Sure, he is 'vulnerable' to it, that does not change a thing in this context.

No, since those cracks weren't present in EVERY single panel he was on. So, someone can come to this logical conclusion:

- SM Rasengan came into contact with 3rd's arm
- Cracks appear on his arm
- Damage is done

It's pretty simple.

Yes they will. Of course Ei would be different, he's many times faster then the 3rd. Even Madara is a lot faster then him. Ma and Pa get blitzed, unless your going to assume that Naruto has mastered fusing with them, in which case they get blitzed together.

Madara isn't a lot faster than him, not when he was overwhelmed by a tired Sasuke in cqc even while using Sage Mode. SM Naruto's best feat is that of blitzing Pain from an enormous distance: he is a speedster, not quite as much as KCM Naruto or Raikages, but he IS fast. Madara was never portrayed as such and was being literally manhandled by V1 Ei, who with both arms was dodged and stabbed by a Kage Summit 3T Sasuke.

If it is a BL battle, Nagato won't care if some of his paths get destroyed, he can easily replace them. Especially if the intent is to win at any costs. Animal Path would be a very good distraction, the other Paths can be Meatshields, it does not take long to charge it.

Except that Nagato isn't sure that his attack can kill a Bijuu/KCM Naruto. Him being BL doesn't mean he magically becomes a suicidal. It does take a good chunk of seconds to charge it, that's plenty of time to be blitzed by clones and V2 Bee.

Really? Are you under the impression that a Bijudama can destroy Konoha? Or even come close to it? A much smaller ST was able to destroy three boss summons that are of the same mold as Hachibi in terms of durability, a CST is destroying Hachibi.

What the heck?

- You see

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That's a incomplete Bijuudama from KN6 Naruto, weakened further by Bansho Tenin. Using this

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, that Bijuubomb is at least 1/4 of the Chibaku Tensei crater.

- Using this other

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, Bijuu Hachimaki's crater is by a good gap larger than CST's one and standard bijuudamas are nearly the

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. Not only that, but Bijuudama vaporizes, CST simply destroys.

- Three Boss summons aren't even CLOSE to the Hachibi in terms of durability, don't know if you are actually serious there man. Gamabunta was heavily damaged by one incomplete Shukaku's Renkudan, and said that he couldn't take many of those. Do you seriously think that some Renkudans from an incomplete Shukaku are stronger than a Bijuudama? Do you seriously think that some toads are surviving a Bijuudama?

Naruto would have to leave the battlefield, which he would not do even if he had full intel, as he would never know when Deva Path is about to use CST. So what? Point is, V2 Susanoo of Madara's would not be capable of tanking CST, and KCM Naruto's durability is no better then ribcage Susanoo, probably worse then even that considering the fact that V1 Ei's mere punch was hyped to have killed him if it landed directly (By Naruto himself whilst in the KCM state.

Naruto or Ma and Pa can sense chakra, so he would know when a big jutsu comes into play. Unless you think that Tenpenchii is inferior to CST, and i ask to prove it then, he is tanking it.


PS: Narutobase for some reasons block Narutoforums threads. To see those calcs that i have post, sostitute that strange first part of the link with

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