[Discussion] Kishi plot blocks the main characters

[so12p]

Rock Lee has a spin off specifically because he's a side character who deosn't get much screen time.Also,have you ever seen those manga pages that have a character popularity poll in them? Lee was never above Sasuke.If he was then surely he would of gotten more screen time.

How can you be so biased against Sasuke that you don't think he's the 2nd main character? It deosn't matter what fan group you're categorized as,it's obvoius that Sasuke is the 2nd main character,and it's a fact.

If Sakura and Kakashi was more useful then Sasuke then how come the Sage didn't give them his power? How come they can't Seal Kaguya.

This came out in chapter 533

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This came out in chapter 245 - Begining of part 2.Who's number 1? At the end of part 1 where Lee was shining the most he ever has?

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This one came out in chapter 60

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Chapter 107 -This one was close - Look at who's fourth & fifth.

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This one came out on chapter 151 - look at the numbers on the bottom.

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Chapter 199

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Chapter 292 - Sasuke didn't even appear yet and look what place he's in.

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lol "It's not Sasuke Shippuden" - lol he was in 1st place,as the most popular character,above Naruto before he even appeared.And who was are Main Character Naruto trying to get for many arcs?


My post>>>>> Your post.

Well, you found a few proof points on popularity over 15 years. I would like to see it graphed over the life of the manga, but props to you for demonstrating your point.

That fact remains that suckske is a side character with no more manga significance than suckuraw and Kakashi. They are all on team 7. It also remains true that despite the popularity numbers you show, the author and publishers of the manga clearly find more value in giving Rock Lee his own headline. Your favorite does not.

As to your post being greater than mine, I concede that you backed up the popularity scores, at least during a very few snapshots in a long history. But you lost on your failure to recognize the main point, which is suckske is and always will be one of many antagonists in the story. Never will he be the protagonist.

EDIT: Just to round out on polling, this can be found in the third data book:

Naruto Databook 3 Character Poll

The third Naruto databook compiled the results of the first six polls to determine the most popular characters overall.
1. Kakashi Hatake - 48,431 votes
2. Naruto Uzumaki - 42,862 votes
3. Sasuke Uchiha - 33,632 votes
4. Iruka Umino - 23,532 votes
5. Shikamaru Nara - 11,211 votes
6. Sakura Haruno - 9,701 votes
7. Neji Hyūga - 9,362 votes
8. Gaara - 8,660 votes
9. Rock Lee - 8,614 votes
10. Itachi Uchiha - 7,067 votes
11. Hinata Hyūga - 6,917 votes
12. Haku - 3,351 votes
13. Might Guy - 2,913 votes
14. Temari – 2,803 votes
15. Minato Namikaze - 2,735 votes
16. Deidara - 2,555 votes
17. Kiba Inuzuka - 2,398 votes
18. Hayate Gekkō - 2,183 votes
19. Jiraiya - 2,055 votes
20. Shino Aburame - 1,853 votes
21. Tsunade - 1,814 votes
22. Ino Yamanaka - 1,781 votes
23. Kabuto Yakushi - 1,772 votes
24. Zabuza Momochi - 1,232 votes
25. Asuma Sarutobi - 1,164 votes
26. Orochimaru - 1,097 votes
27. Tenten - 968 votes
28. Genma Shiranui - 771 votes
29. Kankurō - 645 votes
30. Kimimaro - 626 votes
31. Gamabunta - 581 votes
32. Anko Mitarashi - 580 votes
33. Chōji Akimichi - 412 votes
34. Akamaru - 409 votes
35. Masashi Kishimoto - 283 votes
36. Kurenai Yūhi - 266 votes
37. Nine-Tailed Demon Fox - 242 votes
38. Ibiki Morino - 194 votes
39. Inari - 180 votes
40. Konohamaru Sarutobi - 172 votes
41. Tayuya - 164 votes
42. Tsunade - 161 votes
43. Kimimaro - 148 votes

I seem to recall that out of the six polls, suckske polled higher in popularity in only one. Seems to wreck the whole notion of suckske popularity making more important of a supporting character than Kakashi.

There are further polls, as well, but I think we have beat this horse to death at this point.

 

[Styles]

Well, you found a few proof points on popularity over 15 years. I would like to see it graphed over the life of the manga, but props to you for demonstrating your point.

That fact remains that suckske is a side character with no more manga significance than suckuraw and Kakashi. They are all on team 7. It also remains true that despite the popularity numbers you show, the author and publishers of the manga clearly find more value in giving Rock Lee his own headline. Your favorite does not.

As to your post being greater than mine, I concede that you backed up the popularity scores, at least during a very few snapshots in a long history. But you lost on your failure to recognize the main point, which is suckske is and always will be one of many antagonists in the story. Never will he be the protagonist.

Fail again he's the 2nd main character Kakashi and Sakura are side characters you're obviously trolling.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Well, you found a few proof points on popularity over 15 years. I would like to see it graphed over the life of the manga, but props to you for demonstrating your point.

That fact remains that suckske is a side character with no more manga significance than suckuraw and Kakashi. They are all on team 7. It also remains true that despite the popularity numbers you show, the author and publishers of the manga clearly find more value in giving Rock Lee his own headline. Your favorite does not.

As to your post being greater than mine, I concede that you backed up the popularity scores, at least during a very few snapshots in a long history. But you lost on your failure to recognize the main point, which is suckske is and always will be one of many antagonists in the story. Never will he be the protagonist.

No more significance than Sakura and Kakashi? Who has the Sage entrusted half of his power too? Who is part of the key which is needes to seal Kaguya?Who is Kaguya after? Is she trying to get Kakashi and Sakura's chakra?

What i posted above was character popularity polls from all over the story,granted the last one came out with chapter 531 three years ago,so unfourtunetely i wasn't able to show you Sasuke being in 1st-5th place again,and Lee who got his spin off manga not even on the list.

Maybe if Sasuke came in atleast 8th place at times or didn't even make the top 10 then he would have his own spin off manga which is completely non canon and not even drawn by Masashi.The publishes used Lee because he's an interesting popular character who gets little screen time - not because he's a interesting popular character that gets alot of attention who at times even has more screentime than Naruto - volume 42.

Those popularity polls came out atleast one year apart by the way.

Funny how you say Sasuke has no more significance than Sakura,and Kakashi,and mention how they are on Team 7 but don't mention how Naruto is too.

Sasuke being a antagonist wasn't your main piont,your main piont was Sasuke's a side character,and your method to try to proove that was that Lee was more popular,which is a though i easily destoryed.Now you're switching from "Sasuke's a side character" to "Sasuke's just another antagonist".

Sasuke wasn't always an antagonist.Did you forget part 1 before he left the village? And he's not JUST an antgonist like the others.I will remind you again,Who has our Main Character Naruto been chasing for many arcs? Who is the person Naruto considers a Rival,a friend and said was like a brother?Who has Naruto said he's had a special bond with?

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Has Naruto said this about all the other antagonist? The Sound 5 - Tayuyu,Jirobi,Sakon/Ukon,Kidomaru,Kimmaro,Sasori,Deidara,Kakazu,Hidan,Zetsu,Orochimaru,Kabuto,Kisame,Madara,Has Naruto admired those Antagonist before,were they destined to fight? Yet you say Sasuke's just another antagonist.

 

[so12p]

Ok, the suckske fanboys clearly are ignoring the edit to my post above where it shows that cumulative Kakashi scored higher than suckske (not that popularity polls make an antagonist a protagonist anyway). So I guess we chalk the logic up to fanboys will be fanboys and leave it at that.

 

[itzsquishypants]

@so12p

Not to seem like an ass or anything, but if Kakashi is above Naruto, then wouldn't that make his the side-character?

I know what the real answer is, but do you see where the logic of that poll doesn't make sense. Even you stated that it doesn't. Just because a character in the manga/anime is named after the whole story, doesn't make all characters less important. Whether you or I or anyone else wants to accept it, Sasuke is more than just a side-character. These final chapters have proven that. Sure, Naruto has been stealing the spotlight, but we still have not seen 50% of what Sasuke can do, whereas, we've seen almost all of Naruto's abilities.

Furthermore, since the last chapter came out it also seems like Kakashi will be having a stronger role as well. I can strongly guess that the next few chapters will be about Kakashi and his drive to finally protect his students. Also, I would also bet that Naruto and Sasuke will be sitting in the side-lines for a bit watching their Sensei do some work, which in my opinion, has been long overdue.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Ok, the suckske fanboys clearly are ignoring the edit to my post above where it shows that cumulative Kakashi scored higher than suckske (not that popularity polls make an antagonist a protagonist anyway). So I guess we chalk the logic up to fanboys will be fanboys and leave it at that.

Are you unintelligent? You were talking about Rock Lee suppousedly being more popular than Sasuke cause he has his own spin off manga.And i countered that with the mangas popularity polls,which show how popular Sasuke has been and how he's always been above Lee in every one of them,all of the official polls that came out with colored manga pages.

I posted ALL OF THEM.I never said Sasuke was first in all of them.

And that you posted was all the votes of all the character popularity polls that were out at the time which was 3.The polls came out 1 every year so that's the first 3 years of the manga.So Kakashi being voted as the most popular character the first three years puts him above Sasuke now?

Sasuke has always been the 2nd MC.

The list you posted was the combination of the first 3 polls combine.

Here are the specific numbers of each poll.

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[Eveangela]

Rock Lee has a spin off specifically because he's a side character who deosn't get much screen time.Also,have you ever seen those manga pages that have a character popularity poll in them? Lee was never above Sasuke.If he was then surely he would of gotten more screen time.

How can you be so biased against Sasuke that you don't think he's the 2nd main character? It deosn't matter what fan group you're categorized as,it's obvoius that Sasuke is the 2nd main character,and it's a fact.
If Sakura and Kakashi was more useful then Sasuke then how come the Sage didn't give them his power? How come they can't Seal Kaguya?

This came out in chapter 533

You must be registered for see images

This came out in chapter 245 - Begining of part 2.Who's number 1? At the end of part 1 where Lee was shining the most he ever has?

You must be registered for see images

This one came out in chapter 60 - after Lee had kicked Sasuke ass,yet who is still more popular?

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Chapter 107 -This one was close - Look at who's fourth & fifth.

You must be registered for see images

This one came out on chapter 151 - look at the numbers on the bottom.

You must be registered for see images

Chapter 199

You must be registered for see images

Chapter 292 - Sasuke didn't even appear yet and look what place he's in.

You must be registered for see images

lol "It's not Sasuke Shippuden" - lol he was in 1st place,as the most popular character,above Naruto before he even appeared.And who was are Main Character Naruto trying to get for many arcs?

Maybe if Sasuke came in atleast 8th place at times or didn't even make the top 10 then he would have his own spin off manga which is completely non canon and not even drawn by Masashi.Kishimoto deosn't spend any time on it.

My post>>>>> Your post.

You clearly deny manga facts then not to mention Sasuke didn't even use skeletal Susano'o on him.
He saved Raikage but he wanted to speak to Sasuke in a way you're right. ]

I clearly agree with both of you.
But if amaterasu spikes would have come in contact with raikage's body he would have been dead meat...
So yeah more like gaara saved raikage...

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Hey So12p,thiz is for you.

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It would be funny if after all your schitt talking it comes true.

 

[kageking]

Well no shit Sherlock? Honestly do you want a cookie? Want me to rub your belly? Main characters tend to not die an awful lot in their series...could this be a conspiracy??!? QUICK CALL THE NSA

 

[so12p]

@so12p

Not to seem like an ass or anything, but if Kakashi is above Naruto, then wouldn't that make his the side-character?

I know what the real answer is, but do you see where the logic of that poll doesn't make sense. Even you stated that it doesn't. Just because a character in the manga/anime is named after the whole story, doesn't make all characters less important. Whether you or I or anyone else wants to accept it, Sasuke is more than just a side-character. These final chapters have proven that. Sure, Naruto has been stealing the spotlight, but we still have not seen 50% of what Sasuke can do, whereas, we've seen almost all of Naruto's abilities.

Furthermore, since the last chapter came out it also seems like Kakashi will be having a stronger role as well. I can strongly guess that the next few chapters will be about Kakashi and his drive to finally protect his students. Also, I would also bet that Naruto and Sasuke will be sitting in the side-lines for a bit watching their Sensei do some work, which in my opinion, has been long overdue.

Yes, actually it does mean they are not MCs, by definition. Many mangas have multiple MCs, but they are named as MCs. Most stories have a single protagonist (I assume you know what that means). Some stories have multiple protagonists, but it is less common and there are normally not more than a couple. Everyone else in a story is by definition is an antagonist.

Relative to the popularity polls, it was the other two guys (suckske fanboys, judging from their posts) that argued that suckske was more popular than kakashi and therefore he was more important that suckuraw and kakashi. That is why I posted the stats to show their logic is incorrect because kakashi actually scored cumulative higher over time than suckske. That's it and not my position at all that popularity has anything to do with the importance of an character role an author assigns. The fact is that suckske is simply one of Team 7. He is not more important than suckuraw or kakashi. He is NOT a MC because Kishimoto has never said that he is a MC. He is an antagonist. If you have read the manga for more than a month, you know that as an antagonist, the role of suckske is to motivate Naruto, and underachiever, to strive to improve his physical strength and technique. My opinion is that suckske is no longer needed once Naruto achieves that goal (which he has). Since he has now achieved that goal, Kishimoto needs to continue Naruto's development in other areas because he is not ready to become hokage. So Kishimoto needs to introduce a new rival to motivate Naruto in those other areas. Suckske's usefulness as an antagonist is done, so it would be better for Kishimoto to kill him off so that the introduction of a new rival for further story development is cleaner. Fanboys don't like to hear that, of course. On the other hand, Sakura (correctly spelling her name out of respect for that group) would agree she is just as important as suckske. Similarly, kakashi fans believe he is just as important.

So there you have, the correct explanation of my replies. Take it or leave it, but insisting suckske is somehow more important to the story than every other antagonist is an indication that you may have crossed to the dark side of being a fanboy, as well.

BTW - I could not give a rats a$$ about any of the three. I do not like the suckske character, but I also do not like suckuraw. Kakashi to me is ok, but probably not in my top 10 favs. Naruto himself POSSIBLY makes my top five favs, but there are other characters that I like more because I find them more relatable and interesting. That does not make those antagonists MCs, only fanboys make illiterate arguments like that.

 

[itzsquishypants]

@so12p

While I do agree that Sasuke is not the main character of the show, I still do think that he still has some relevance still within the storyline itself. While he may not be that rival figure for Naruto like he was back in Part I and first half of Part II, we still cannot discount him as an important figure within the story itself. Kishimoto has kept him in the story for this long and has even given him half of the power from the SO6P, so in essence, he is a major contributor to the storyline. I am not saying that he is the main character, but he is a pretty consistent character (as is Kakashi and as is Sakura).

I also do not really have an interest in Naruto or Sasuke as a character because their development at this point has been, well, bleh. They've been given WAY too much in terms of power-ups and have just become "those" characters.

Though, I still think that Sasuke is a pretty big value to the manga nonetheless.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Yes, actually it does mean they are not MCs, by definition. Many mangas have multiple MCs, but they are named as MCs. Most stories have a single protagonist (I assume you know what that means). Some stories have multiple protagonists, but it is less common and there are normally not more than a couple. Everyone else in a story is by definition is an antagonist.

Relative to the popularity polls, it was the other two guys (suckske fanboys, judging from their posts) that argued that suckske was more popular than kakashi and therefore he was more important that suckuraw and kakashi. That is why I posted the stats to show their logic is incorrect because kakashi actually scored cumulative higher over time than suckske. That's it and not my position at all that popularity has anything to do with the importance of an character role an author assigns. The fact is that suckske is simply one of Team 7. He is not more important than suckuraw or kakashi. He is NOT a MC because Kishimoto has never said that he is a MC. He is an antagonist. If you have read the manga for more than a month, you know that as an antagonist, the role of suckske is to motivate Naruto, and underachiever, to strive to improve his physical strength and technique. My opinion is that suckske is no longer needed once Naruto achieves that goal (which he has). Since he has now achieved that goal, Kishimoto needs to continue Naruto's development in other areas because he is not ready to become hokage. So Kishimoto needs to introduce a new rival to motivate Naruto in those other areas. Suckske's usefulness as an antagonist is done, so it would be better for Kishimoto to kill him off so that the introduction of a new rival for further story development is cleaner. Fanboys don't like to hear that, of course. On the other hand, Sakura (correctly spelling her name out of respect for that group) would agree she is just as important as suckske. Similarly, kakashi fans believe he is just as important.

So there you have, the correct explanation of my replies. Take it or leave it, but insisting suckske is somehow more important to the story than every other antagonist is an indication that you may have crossed to the dark side of being a fanboy, as well.

BTW - I could not give a rats a$$ about any of the three. I do not like the suckske character, but I also do not like suckuraw. Kakashi to me is ok, but probably not in my top 10 favs. Naruto himself POSSIBLY makes my top five favs, but there are other characters that I like more because I find them more relatable and interesting. That does not make those antagonists MCs, only fanboys make illiterate arguments like that.

You're a Sasuke hater, woe is you, however your pathetic and unintelligent rants will not change the fact that Sasuke and Naruto are both key to the fight. The sage of six paths said so. So with that said, enjoy being solo'd just by the fact the sage of six paths gave Sasuke and Naruto half of his chakra