Kisame & Itachi vs. Pain & Konan

[Beans2]

Pain solos

 

[TRE MERCER]

Next time read the OP. It says Pain not Deva path. Pain is them all.

Not to mention it requires just a clap

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. 30M is more than enough.

Quit posting these raw links x it or spoil it cuzzo. Pain has been referred to as Deva path alone multiple times. Even if there all there at once they still lose.

 

[Haizaki]

You can't compare this to Itachi's proficiency in Genjutsu; it's ludicrous. Inferior Genjutsu users have caught easily Pein's in Genjutsu [

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]. On top of that, Sharingan: Genjutsu can be only broken by another Sharingan if tried individually (or via partner method) [

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]. That's more than enough time for either Kisame or Itachi to take out that Pain at that instant with; e.g. Amaterasu, Suiton: Suiryūdan no Jutsu, Katon: Gōkakyū no Jutsu etc.​

I hope you're not serious. That genjutsu is stronger than Tsukoyomi and it's not about inferior genjutsu users here. It's about the genjutsu itself. Pretty sure that's stronger than Tsukoyomi from what we've seen. It's a genjutsu shield so genjutsu won't break through easily at the very least. Any other genjutsu can be broken by the paths.

Nakara path is there to rejuvenate and Tsukoyomi doesn't kill straight after. Amaterasu isn't coming out straight after that. Kisame's entire arsenal gets absorbed or repelled. Bansho tenin easily deals with him. Not to even mention summonings.

 

[Haizaki]

Quit posting these raw links x it or spoil it cuzzo. Pain has been referred to as Deva path alone multiple times. Even if there all there at once they still lose.

Lol so what?

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They are all Paths of Pain and Naruto refers to all as Pain

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.

Lol Ok.

 

[Rιver]

I hope you're not serious. That genjutsu is stronger than Tsukoyomi and it's not about inferior genjutsu users here. It's about the genjutsu itself. Pretty sure that's stronger than Tsukoyomi from what we've seen. It's a genjutsu shield so genjutsu won't break through easily at the very least. Any other genjutsu can be broken by the paths.

Nakara path is there to rejuvenate and Tsukoyomi doesn't kill straight after. Amaterasu isn't coming out straight after that. Kisame's entire arsenal gets absorbed or repelled. Bansho tenin easily deals with him. Not to even mention summonings.

Do you comprehend your words...? Magen: Gama Rinshō is not on Tsukuyomi's level; Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu that cannot be broken even with Sharingan, and requires both Kekkei Genkai and a Sharingan. Then again, Sharingan has been said to be able to defeat - not break, but defeat all Genjutsu [

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].

Itachi already has intel on Naraka, so why wouldn't he take it out the second the fight starts in the first place?

We've already seen how summonings were handled [

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].​

 

[Haizaki]

Do you comprehend your words...? Magen: Gama Rinshō is not on Tsukuyomi's level; Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu that cannot be broken even with Sharingan, and requires both Kekkei Genkai and a Sharingan. Then again, Sharingan has been said to be able to defeat - not break, but defeat all Genjutsu [

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].​

Of course, someone who takes into account hyperboles. First you're going by the fact that it was said to defeat all genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu despite it not even seeing taijutsu sometimes

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Manga disagrees with you anyways

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.

Itachi already has intel on Naraka, so why wouldn't he take it out the second the fight starts in the first place?

They also have intel on him. He's not taken out someone right from the start with this formation especially when Nakara is at the very back

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We've already seen how summonings were handled [

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].

​

You think he's going to finish them off at once despite some being able to fly, go invisible and at least 2 attacking on land. Pretty sure Asura path can come into play as well.

 

[Rιver]

Of course, someone who takes into account hyperboles. First you're going by the fact that it was said to defeat all genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu despite it not even seeing taijutsu sometimes

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Manga disagrees with you anyways

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.

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Then I wonder what happened here [

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], although what Shikamaru meant was her area of effect as well is the fact that it can be used without revealing yourself at all. She never implied the strength of the jutsu.​

They also have intel on him. He's not taken out someone right from the start with this formation especially when Nakara is at the very back

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1. Katon: Gōkakyū no Jutsu can be used as a distraction.

2. If Naruto alone found a way, why wouldn't Itachi and Kisame?​

You think he's going to finish them off at once despite some being able to fly, go invisible and at least 2 attacking on land. Pretty sure Asura path can come into play as well.

Kisame can travel in his Suiton: Suiryūdan no Jutsu [

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] or Itachi can use Amaterasu to bring it down.​

 

[genii96]

Pain solos..genjutsu barriers protect him from occulkar/basic genjutsu
animal + preta stomps kisame
the rest beat itachi

 

[genii96]

Pain solos..genjutsu barriers protect him from occulkar/basic genjutsu
animal + preta stomps kisame
the rest beat itachi

 

[Haizaki]

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Then I wonder what happened here [

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], although what Temari meant was her area of effect as well is the fact that it can be used without revealing yourself at all. She never implied the strength of the jutsu.​

Both looking at their eyes to free each other of the Genjutusu? Lol that means it's stronger? Absolutely Ridiculous. That in no way implies it is stronger. Comparing the strength of the genjutsu prowess is different from 2 people casting a genjutsu on themselves to free each other. They both couldn't move individually

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and free themselves individually.

Lol Shikamaru you mean. It's as simple as what it is. No grasping at straws. He said dealing with hearing is the worst. Nothing else to it.

1. Katon: Gōkakyū no Jutsu can be used as a distraction.

2. If Naruto alone found a way, why wouldn't Itachi and Kisame?​

Because Naruto=/= Itachi and Kisame. He has summonings and clones as well as Ma and Pa to support and had access to Senjutsu as well. Smoke bombs were used to distract and get behind the formation. Not to mention Deva's Powers weren't available to him for quite a while.

Kaiten gets easily dealt with. Animal path can fly and see from above. Their vision is shared.

Kisame can travel in his Suiton: Suiryūdan no Jutsu [

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] or Itachi can use Amaterasu to bring it down.​

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]

Ok? It can travel and what happens? More like Asura path can blast him off while summoning the shark to travel with this

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or

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It moves in the air making it hard for Itachi to hit it. While the others on land can distract him. The dogs can even split apart making it even harder to deal with all the summons.

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[MadaraReturns]

kitachiiii

 

[Blackdeath667]

Pain solos..genjutsu barriers protect him from occulkar/basic genjutsu
animal + preta stomps kisame
the rest beat itachi

itachi alone can take out al least 4 paths..add in kisame

 

[super yang]

lol at the konan lowballing, Kisame is the useless 1 here.
he cant touch Konan & Itachi would need amaterasu or bust against her.

Anyway, 4 different paths can solo Kisame, while Itachi will be on the defensive all day long...Konan would conceivably score both of their kills in the melee & commotion.

Amegakure wins.

 

[Haizaki]

itachi alone can take out al least 4 paths..add in kisame

While they are together? Lol

 

[Unorthodox]

Itachi & Kisame win more time than not

 

[Rιver]

Both looking at their eyes to free each other of the Genjutusu? Lol that means it's stronger? Absolutely Ridiculous. That in no way implies it is stronger. Comparing the strength of the genjutsu prowess is different from 2 people casting a genjutsu on themselves to free each other. They both couldn't move individually

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and free themselves individually.

Lol Shikamaru you mean. It's as simple as what it is. No grasping at straws. He said dealing with hearing is the worst. Nothing else to it.

I didn't mean actually that, but it could be interpret like that. While Sharingan can break out of any Genjutsu, even Shikamaru broke out of Mateki: Mugen Onsa by breaking his finger [

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], while Sasuke & Madara who controlled Manda and Kurama took both a blast of Shī Ō, multiple Bijū Dama's and hits from Shin Sūsenju without getting broke from the illusion.

On top of that, Mateki: Mugen Onsa =/= Magen: Gama Rinshō.

There are multiple examples; sound based Genjutsu will always be inferior to Sharingan: Genjutsu, let alone Mangekyō types.​

Because Naruto=/= Itachi and Kisame. He has summonings and clones as well as Ma and Pa to support and had access to Senjutsu as well. Smoke bombs were used to distract and get behind the formation. Not to mention Deva's Powers weren't available to him for quite a while.

Kaiten gets easily dealt with. Animal path can fly and see from above. Their vision is shared.

Because Naruto, Ma & Pa had more intel that Itachi & Kisame in this case? Please. Itachi without even knowing what Chibaku Tensei is found a way to counter it, while Naruto who had been almost trapped in this jutsu before was panicking. Itachi is the best when it comes to analysing, countering and finding a way out of a jutsu - Mateki: Mugen Onsa is a fine example. Not to mention, the fact that he knows all about Pein, it would be a child's play for him.

Kaiten...?​

Ok? It can travel and what happens? More like Asura path can blast him off while summoning the shark to travel with this

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or

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It moves in the air making it hard for Itachi to hit it. While the others on land can distract him. The dogs can even split apart making it even harder to deal with all the summons.

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Because Asura Path didn't blow himself up [

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]? He'd be killing every Pein near his vicinity, including Naraka, while Kisame with his durability (who took a Hirudora with hardly any severe damage) would most likely only be severely damaged and Itachi can protect himself with Susano'O. Only Animal Path would be left, and I doubt he'd last more than five seconds against Itachi.

Either Kisame kills/drives them away with Suikōdan no Jutsu, or Itachi seals them with Totsuka, or they get burned by Amaterasu.​

 

[Haizaki]

I didn't mean actually that, but it could be interpret like that. While Sharingan can break out of any Genjutsu, even Shikamaru broke out of Mateki: Mugen Onsa by breaking his finger [

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], while Sasuke & Madara who controlled Manda and Kurama took both a blast of Shī Ō, multiple Bijū Dama's and hits from Shin Sūsenju without getting broke from the illusion.

On top of that, Mateki: Mugen Onsa =/= Magen: Gama Rinshō.

There are multiple examples; sound based Genjutsu will always be inferior to Sharingan: Genjutsu, let alone Mangekyō types.​

I don't know why you're saying all this when it's irrelevant. Sound genjutsu has been said by the manga to be the worst. There's nothing more to it. Your words won't change the manga. Sound Genjutsu is stronger than that which requires sight.

DB entry:

Spoiler

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The most powerful as stated. GR> Tsukoyomi

Uh shikamaru broke out of it or was almost killed? Deidera saw though Sasuke's illusion and countered.

Because Naruto, Ma & Pa had more intel that Itachi & Kisame in this case? Please. Itachi without even knowing what Chibaku Tensei is found a way to counter it, while Naruto who had been almost trapped in this jutsu before was panicking. Itachi is the best when it comes to analysing, countering and finding a way out of a jutsu - Mateki: Mugen Onsa is a fine example. Not to mention, the fact that he knows all about Pein, it would be a child's play for him.

Kaiten...?​

Lol Please? Itachi analyzed the orb means what? Naruto was controlled by the nine tails at that time and wasn't in his right senses and even aimed towards the orb with a TBB

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. Itachi only countered because he had B and Naruto with him. True he analyzed it but he was helped because it took a TBB, Rasenshuriken and Magatama to destroy it. He has full intel here but that's different from taking them out.

I meant Katon Lol. Mugen onsa is a fine example because he had Sasuke there with him? Lol. That was what saved him.

Because Asura Path didn't blow himself up [

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]? He'd be killing every Pein near his vicinity, including Naraka, while Kisame with his durability (who took a Hirudora with hardly any severe damage) would most likely only be severely damaged and Itachi can protect himself with Susano'O. Only Animal Path would be left, and I doubt he'd last more than five seconds against Itachi.

Either Kisame kills/drives them away with Suikōdan no Jutsu, or Itachi seals them with Totsuka, or they get burned by Amaterasu.​

Please Please show me a scan of him blowing up?

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That's when next he appeared. Unless you can show me a scan of him being brought back by Nakara which was in a different position at that time. There's no scan of him being revived so he's not getting blown up.

Lol doesn't matter. Susanoo comes out, the CT comes out. Even if CT isn't used, Magatama is useless. That's his only distant attack while in Susanoo. There's also the fact that he can't hold this on for long. He eventually tires out while the Paths can fight much longer.

Uh Kisame can easily be finished with chakra rods. All of them can use chakra rods

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There's also the fact that Pain can levitate

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. The summonings would be a problem as well. I wonder how he focuses on all and Pain at the same time.

Sukodan no jutsu is fodder. Gai could even stand on top of it with no enhancements

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. It gets absorbed or repelled

 

[Rιver]

I don't know why you're saying all this when it's irrelevant. Sound genjutsu has been said by the manga to be the worst. There's nothing more to it. Your words won't change the manga. Sound Genjutsu is stronger than that which requires sight.

DB entry:

Spoiler

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The most powerful as stated. GR> Tsukoyomi

Uhmm shikamaru broke out of it or was almost killed? Deidera saw though Sasuke's illusion and countered.

Databook also stated that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are necessary for Susano'O; we all know how that turned out. It's expired and outdated. So no, it isn't. The most powerful Genjutsu is the Infinite Tsukuyomi, as implied many times. It can only be canceled by another Samsāra.

Doesn't change the fact he broke out of it with just a finger snap while Manda and Kurama didn't with blasts that could shatter mountains with ease. Are you really arguing that Itachi is inferior to Fukasaku and Shima in terms of Genjutsu...?​

Lol Please? Itachi knew about the orb means what? Naruto was controlled by the nine tails at that time and wasn't in his right senses and even aimed towards the orb with a TBB

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. Itachi only countered because he had B and Naruto with him. True he analyzed it but he was helped because it took a TBB, Rasenshuriken and Magatama to destroy it. He has full intel here but that's different from taking them out.

I meant Katon Lol. Mugen onsa is a fine example because he had Sasuke there with him? Lol. That was what saved him.

Because A. That was Naruto's consciousness and B. Naruto remembered anything and C. It hasn't been stated that he loses consciousness once he goes past 4th tail? That wasn't Naruto, and doesn't change the fact that Naruto didn't try to do anything after Nagato unleashed Chibaku Tensei. Instead he decided to sob and cry about how strong it was, while Itachi stayed absolutely calm and focused.

Katon isn't even needed here.​

Lol Please Please show me a scan of him blowing up?

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That's when next he appeared. Unless you can show me a scan of him being brought back by Nakara which was in a different position at that time. There's no scan of him being revived so he's not getting blown up.

Does that really matter? Whether he blew himself up or not is not the case here, you're trying to tell me that they can stay in their formation without moving an inch, let alone get destroyed?​

Lol doesn't matter. Susanoo comes out, the CT comes out. Even if CT isn't used, Magatama is useless. That's his only distant attack while in Susanoo. There's also the fact that he can't hold this on for long. He eventually tires out while the Paths can fight much longer.

Uhmm Kisame can easily be finished with chakra rods. All of them can use chakra rods

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There's also the fact that Pain can levitate

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. The summonings would be a problem as well. I wonder how he focuses on all and Pain at the same time.

Sukodan no jutsu is fodder. Gai could even stand on top of it with no enhancements

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. It gets absorbed or repelled

Chibaku Tensei requires the deactivation of all paths, excluding Deva Path. If Itachi has full intel, he'd finish Deva Path before the jutsu is activated.

If chakra rods didn't kill Kakashi nor Jiraiya, what makes you think it will damage Kisame let alone kill? You've also forgot the fact that he can regenerate.

Only Deva Path can do so. How is he then countering Amaterasu?


That's not the point, the point is he can travel within it. Once he is near Animal Path, all he'd need to do is control remotely Samehada and bring it down or finish it off with another Suikōdan no Jutsu that is targeted at ground.
​

 

[Haizaki]

Databook also stated that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are necessary for Susano'O; we all know how that turned out. It's expired and outdated. So no, it isn't. The most powerful Genjutsu is the Infinite Tsukuyomi, as implied many times. It can only be canceled by another Samsāra.

Doesn't change the fact he broke out of it with just a finger snap while Manda and Kurama didn't with blasts that could shatter mountains with ease. Are you really arguing that Itachi is inferior to Fukasaku and Shima in terms of Genjutsu...?​

Yeah it is outdated but still ranked Gama Rinsho ahead of Tsukoyomi even while Tsukoyomi was introduced before it. IT wasn't known or even shown by that time. It is something Itachi cannot use anyways.

Don't try to use other factors to state that the DB was wrong about GR being stronger than Tsukoyomi when nothing implies it is. Has anyone been shown to break GR? None.

Nobody argued that Fukusaku and Shima are superior. I already told you. The fact that they have access to a better and stronger genjutsu doesn't mean they are in fact better and stronger in terms of overall use of Genjutsu. It is the genjutsu itself that is stronger.

Doesn't change the fact that sound genjutsu is superior to sight. GR is stronger that Itachi's Tsukoyomi which you brought up.

Because A. That was Naruto's consciousness and B. Naruto remembered anything and C. It hasn't been stated that he loses consciousness once he goes past 4th tail? That wasn't Naruto, and doesn't change the fact that Naruto didn't try to do anything after Nagato unleashed Chibaku Tensei. Instead he decided to sob and cry about how strong it was, while Itachi stayed absolutely calm and focused.

Katon isn't even needed here.​

Ok? So how does this help?

Katon isn't needed but you brought it up.

Does that really matter? Whether he blew himself up or not is not the case here, you're trying to tell me that they can stay in their formation without moving an inch, let alone get destroyed?​

You brought up the fact that he got destroyed and I simply replied with scans that he didn't. No. The formation requires Nakara staying at the back further showing that he won't be taking out right from the start like you implied. You're also ignoring the fact that Itachi would succumb to the strain of his MS attacks.

Chibaku Tensei requires the deactivation of all paths, excluding Deva Path. If Itachi has full intel, he'd finish Deva Path before the jutsu is activated.​

It requires deactivation of all the Paths? Please show a scan of this. Because all the Paths except Deva were eliminated means he has to deactivate them? All it requires is just an orb to be formed. Even if they are deactivated, how does that save them when the orb is pulling them? This is said without proof that they'll even be deactivated.

He'll finish Deva? More like he'll have more to worry about.

If chakra rods didn't kill Kakashi nor Jiraiya, what makes you think it will damage Kisame let alone kill? You've also forgot the fact that he can regenerate.

Lol they don't need to kill. Pain would restrict their movements and can even control them since it disrupts their chakra

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Only Deva Path can do so. How is he then countering Amaterasu?

How he counters Amaterasu?

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That's not the point, the point is he can travel within it. Once he is near Animal Path, all he'd need to do is control remotely Samehada and bring it down or finish it off with another Suikōdan no Jutsu that is targeted at ground.

I already told you

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prevents him from doing so

 

[PSYPHON]

Pain solos since KA dosen't work on dead bodies