[Theory] Will of Fire / Curse of Hatred

Thread starter Rabbit Teth
Start date Aug 12, 2014

Rabbit Teth

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Will of Fire / Curse of Hatred

This is an update theory. I’m rehashing some ideas spread across a couple of my older theories and try to turn them into one complete theory. The ideas in this theory are highly speculative. I’m linking storylines within the manga to the legends with which they are associated in the real world. There is therefore considerable risk of spoilers if any of it turns out to be true. Even if none of it developed any further within the story I hope you at least enjoy some dissection of original tales behind Kishi’s art and the stories he’s referencing.

You’ll no doubt have heard of these two concepts before but you may be totally unaware of how they tie into the religious symbolism and messages that underpin the entire story. These messages carry a lot of associated myths and legends that I believe are currently being worked into the Manga. Spoiler health warnings out of the way … read on.

The Will of Fire / Garuda

The Will of Fire is the ethos upon which Konoha was built and which is worshipped in the country at large. Konoha belongs to the Fire Country and the main temple is the Fire Temple. The Will of Fire is the spirit of the country and its main deity is Garuda, at least that’s his name in the real world, in the Manga he goes by Hagoromo. In the Fire Temple he is represented by the figure of Garuda but you can identify him as Hagoromo by the pose he takes, the clue in Hagoromo’s name (it means Feather Mantle or Coat) and by the way he holds his staff.

Garuda

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Hagoromo

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The Tengu are traced back to myths of Garuda (the mythical creature is found in stories in India long before it ever reached Japan). Traditionally Garuda is depicted with a red plumage (more or less the same shade as Hagoromo’s hair) and he is part man part bird:

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The Will of Fire embodies the principles of Hagoromo as passed down through the generations in his teachings of Ninshuu. This is essentially a message of Peace and Love exemplified by his younger son Asura (the figure reincarnated into Naruto):

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Garuda is a mythical creature who is associated with certain myths and legends that have parallels in the current story. In particular, Kishi seems to have taken inspiration from the origin story of Garuda from the Mahabharata (an ancient religious text in India). It is unlikely that the two stories will overlap entirely (Kishi always puts his on spin on the myths and legends that he borrows from) but there are markers that point to the stories coinciding in certain details.

Garuda’s Mother was a princess called Vinata:

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She was the second wife to Kashyapa who depending on which myth you follow is either the Creator or Son of the Creator Brahma. Kashyapa’s first wife was called Kadru and she bore Kashyapa a thousand children who were the Nagas (snakes and dragons). Vinata agreed to bear Kashyapa more sons on two conditions, first that she only have two sons and second that both of them would be more powerful than any of Kadru’s children.

Kaguya’s two sons:

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Kashyapa granted this wish but in order for Vinata’s children to grow strong they needed longer to gestate. For many years the Snakes therefore ruled the world (think of is as a rationalization for Dinosaurs). Vinata grew impatient of waiting for her sons to hatch and decided to crack open one of her eggs. For this sin, her elder son (Garuda’s Brother Aruna) cursed his mother to serve the snakes.

When Garuda came of age he decided to free his mother of her servitude to the snakes. He approached the snakes and bargained for her release. In exchange for his mothers freedom they demanded that Garuda bring them the Amrita.

Amrita aka the Elixir of Life… the Fruit of the Shinju

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In order to retrieve the Amrita, Garuda assaulted heaven defeating all who stood in his way. On his way back to delivering the Amrita, the god of the sky approaches Garuda and asks him not to deliver the fruit of the gods. Garuda agrees but he knows he needs to release his mother from the control of the snakes. Garuda therefore delivers the Amrita to the snakes but tells them that they must perform a ritual before eating the Amrita. The god of the sky, Indra, then swoops in and steals the fruit back from the snakes but not before they’d licked the Amrita. This burnt through their tongues giving them the forked tongue and granted them an incomplete immortality that led them to shed their skins.

Snakes shedding skin / Rebirth

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For allowing Indra to regain the Amrita for the gods, Garuda is granted the right to feast on Naga – the Snakes. Garuda then enters into an eternal conflict with the snakes. He is usually pictured stomping them, eating them or flying them up into the sky to drop them from great height.

Garuda was visited by a further god, Vishnu, who this time asked Garuda to serve as his mount (ride). In exchange Garuda is granted immortality without the need to eat the Amrita.

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Garuda is represented in ancient and modern art and religious paintings as either a man bird, an eagle, a kite or a hawk. He is often symbolized in Japanese art by a flaming halo called the Karura Enka. These can be seen at various stages in the manga:

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Here’s another real world Statue of Garuda (with Karura Enko), note the similarities to Sasuke in similar pose (Flute + hat as halo):

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The halo (Karura Enko) and Karura’s Fire-breath (Karura En) are symbolic of the Will of Fire. It represents the cleansing of impure desires. It is also said to purify the victims of the snakes’ venom (see below for more).

Like Garuda, Hagoromo seems to be able to manifest his will as a hawk – notice the Rinnegan watching out for Sasuke:

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Finally, and this might be stretching things too far, but the Hagoromo Clan’s Symbol could be a representation of the Hawk / Garuda’s Eye:

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Japanese Karura Mask

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The Garuda belongs to an ancient tale but it overlaps with many other religious figures. In Japan the Garuda (known as Karura – like Gaara’s mother) is also one of the manifestations of the Amida Sanzon – a group of three Buddha who together guide people to enlightenment and administer the Six Realms. Hagoromo’s message of Ninshuu, his poses and his shepherding of the living all tie him to Amida.

Goddess of Compassion / Kannon

Amida is often portrayed as the head of three Buddha’s who manage the pure land – the Six Realms that Naruto is currently fighting Kaguya in. The symbol for the six realms is a six pointed star known as a (Shatkona) which is also the symbol for Chakra - it looks kind of like this:

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A variation of this symbol represents Kannon, she is represented by the Hexagram in the heart of a Lotus (Padma). The points of the star represent each of the Six Realm and the Lotus is the gateway through which souls are passed into the next world. Kannon is regarded as a mother like figure who represents the virtues of compassion. She hears the suffering of the masses and welcomes the dead into the afterlife through a Lotus:

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Kaguya’s Lotus:

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Kaguya’s Lotus transferring souls into the Pure Land

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Kaguya is linked to the Kannon in a number of ways. She has the same third eye that is represented by the Statue’s diamond mark and she uses the Raigō: Senjusatsu aka Welcoming Approach: Thousand-Armed Murder – the same technique used by Asuma and Chiriku

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Kannon is portrayed in a grand statue in Konoha:

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and as Hashirama’s Wooden Buddha

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She is the figure from whom the Senju take their name. Her 1000 armed statue in the real world is known as the Senju Kannon:

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Because of the connection to the Lotus and to the statues I consider that within the Hagoromo story, Kaguya is supposed to represent Kannon. Her tears show her compassion and while she may be rampaging now, her initial intent was to stop all wars. Somewhere along the way she was infected by the Curse of Hatred – which led her into the service of Naga (penance for eating the fruit per Christian mythology, a Curse from her eldest son per the Garuda myth or just a plain old snake bite who knows…).
Kaguya’s Tears

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Kaguya’s Curse of Hatred

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Kaguya verging on turning into a Naga (Dragon)

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Bunny bitten by Snake… Foreshadowing for the Rabbit Goddess or an explanation of what turned Kaguya bad …???

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All of which brings me to the converse of the Will of Fire…

Curse of Hatred / Seishi

In balance with the Will of Fire is the Curse of Hatred. In Buddhism this is often represented by the Snake at the heart of the Samsara:

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Yama (above) is considered a subordinate to Seishi in Pure Land Buddhism. He governs hell but he answers to Seishi/ Shiva in the legends. Yama has no character I can think of that has any connection though a manifestation of Yama is used by the Naraka Path of Pain.

Seishi however is the third Buddha who completes the Amida Triad who reign over Heaven (Kannon), Earth (Amida) and Hell (Seishi). If Kannon represents compassion then Seishi represents Knowledge and Power. He rules over the three lowest realms – the Naraka Realm (Hell), The Preta Realm (Hell of Hungry Ghosts) and the Animal Realm. His Emblem is the Triangle … connecting the dots that would make Hamura … Jashin:

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Seishi, the real world god / Buddha, corresponds to this Statue in the Manga (note the repeating number three – faces, sets of arms, rings on his staff, bars composing his weapon and prongs on his trident):

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In the real world Seishi is a cognate of both Shiva (god of destruction bearing a snake / Naga):

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… and Shesha (the name of the King of the Nagas) represented here:

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Remind you of anybody…

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I consider that Hamura (through his vessel/vassal Black Zetsu) and Orochimaru are either working together or could even be one and the same.

In addition to the crossovers in the artistic references used for their characters there is the corresponding philosophy focused on Power and Knowledge rather than Spirit and Will:

Knowledge and Power vs Will of Fire

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So how does Hamura fit in with this?

Whether Kishi is borrowing from the symbolism of the Amida Sanzon (which places snakes around the shoulders of Shiva and is the origin for much of Orochimaru’s design) or whether Kishi is borrowing from the legend of Garuda (with it’s many parallels to the story so far)… one thing seems certain and that’s that Hamura is likely in cahoots with the Snakes / Naga.

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What little we know of Hamura suggests that he did not live past the fight with his mother when she went on a rampage as the Juubi. Translations argue over whether Hamura had the Juubi sealed inside him alongside his brother but Madara’s vision of the Juubi hints that Hamura was consumed during the struggle. The figure in the Juubi’s mouth has three rings on his staff representing the three hell realms of Seishi and just like the statues of Seishi/Shiva above.

Hagoromo and Hamura vs the Juubi (sealing their mother):

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Hamura in the Juubi’s mouth:

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What about Black Zetsu?

BZ talks about his birth coming about during the sealing of Kaguya:

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I’m not sure how BZ and Orochimaru are connected… but one way I can think that they might be is if Orochimaru were the Yang chakra (white) released by Hamura before being consumed and Black Zetsu were the Yin chakra (black). Orochimaru's emblem for the Sound Village is a blank Taijitu (Yin Yang Symbol) which is supposed to equally balance Light and Dark but is only white (a sign of imbalance and evil in Japan according to the wiki):

But surely that would be one enormous Asspull? Well no. Kurama was split into Yin and Yang chakra when being sealed inside Naruto. There was no appreciable difference between Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama except their appearance. The two were even able to co-operate together:

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But what evidence is there of actual co-operation?

Up until recently there was none. What stood out to me a couple of chapters ago was how Kabuto was able to collect so many corpses for Edo Tensei.

Not only are there the corpse of Itachi and presumably others from Akatsuki that BZ was responsible for disposing of but which Kabuto ended up being able to threaten to use against Tobi later on:

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Then – pretty recently - BZ takes credit for pointing Kabuto in the direction of Madara’s corpse:

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From Tobi’s surprise it seems as though this wasn’t part of Tobi’s plan:

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Both Madara / Obito and Kabuto were stooges to their respective snakes.

But hang on, BZ isn’t a snake… is he?

Well I think he might be. You will notice a pattern in characters that have been surrounded by either BZ or Oro. They usually end up housing some undefined black substance (Curse Seal Venom from Oro or Black Rods / Mini BZ for BZ). They also usually end up pulling out some kind of Dragon / Naga technique. Here’s some examples:

1. Oro Venom Cursed Seal Transformation (NB the branching venom and changing skin tone)

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2. Madara
BZ will emerging from him + Cursed Seal style transformation

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Naga

…of course Madara uses his Hashirama’s Wood Dragon but within the context of the Kannon Statue the dragon (a depiction of Makara) sits upon a mini Buddha on Kannon's head. The mini Budddha on Kannon's head is traditionally Amida which would make the dragon a manifestation of Seishi…

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3. Deidara
Black Zetsu Transformation

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Naga

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4. Kabuto
Dragon (Naga) Sage Mode that he “learnt” from the snakes in Ryuchidou

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Naga

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5. Sasuke
Cursed Seal

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Naga

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6. Nagato
Black rods

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Naga

…sprouting from the Gedo Mazo when impalled by BZ’s black chakra rods

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7. Obito
BZ

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Naga (thanks Obikage)

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8. Orochimaru in true Naga form

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I would suggest that the Black Rods, the Cursed Seal and Black Zetsu himself are all variations on Snake Venom… Snake Venom that Garuda / Hagoromo can cleans with his flames.

Taking the leap that Hamura is Jashin and that BZ and Oro have been working in tandem – then what was the point of them hiding in the shadows?

If there is an axis of evil at play then the precepts of Lord Jashin seem to be pertinent. Jashin demands Blood and Sacrifice to quench his thirst. You can see this in both the attitude of Manda (Oro’s Snake Summon) and in the preaching of Hidan (Jashin’s priest in Akatsuki).

Jashin feeds off Carnage and Blood Rituals

Jashinism

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The Snakes feed off Human Sacrifice

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How else does Jashin manifest himself?

Remember the figure representing the Curse of Hatred for Itachi:

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Remember the spectre that controls the Hell Realms and is the power behind Impure World Resurrection:

NB Triple Spiral

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… and Remember the triple spiral design in the Uzumaki Shrine showing souls burning in black flames beneath the eyes / hair

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I believe his true form however is that of the Shinigami

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The Shinigami carries the prayer beads like those of the followers of Jashin

Shinigami

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Hidan

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if the Uzumaki put up the Shrine to Jashin then it might explain why Uzushiogakure ended up destroyed

Uzumaki Shrine – home to the Shinigami Mask / the Triple Spiral / Burning Souls

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Destruction of Uzushiogakure

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The Shinigami bears close resemblance to the Cursed Seal

Shinigami

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Sasuke with Cursed Seal

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Also note how the Shinigami’s hair can trap victims just like Kaguya (Hamura’s mother) and Itachi’s Seishi Manifestation

Shinigami

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Kaguya

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Seishi

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…and guess who has the same grin as Oro and Juugo’s clan from Ryuchidou (home to the snakes)

Shinigami

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Juugo’s Clan

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Orochimaru:

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Itachi’s Seishi Manifestation

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So the snakes feed off carnage and sacrifice. They are the embodiement of the Curse of Hatred and they represent the ideals of their King, Jashin – Power and Knowledge.

What are their goals and who's doing all the dirty work?

First to spread war. Between Orochimaru and Black Zetsu they have infiltrated each of the special ANBU forces of the five countries. Deidara belonged to Iwagakure (the Blast Corps), Kisame was Kirigakure’s Seven Swordsmen of the Mist, Orochimaru was able to masquerade as Kazekage for a while in Sunagakure and it is quite possible that Kumogakure’s special Kinkaku Force was also under the command of one or other snake. Orochimaru at least was able to infiltrate Kumogakure to poison the Jinchuuriki of the Eight Tails (the Hachibi’s Horn is in Orochimaru’s collection). Orochimaru was also heavily involved with Danzo and Konoha’s prototype Bloody Mist special training and Human Experiments.

It is worth noting in particular the despite the ANBU being primarily responsible for destroying the corpses of their countries, Kabuto has been able to amass a who’s who of each of the Great Nations:

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A lot of people clearly haven’t been doing their jobs properly.

If the Snakes were behind ANBU then almost every single war between the Five Great Countries could be attributed to the Snakes:
Madara told Iwagakure what to do:

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Guy in the Shadows (Madara? BZ/ Obito? BZ/ Someone else?) had Kirigakure under his thumb

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…and Oro looks a hell of a lot like a strong candidate to be the as yet unrevealed 3rd Mizukage from the First Gokage Meeting of the Five Great Nations

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Orochmaru killed the 4th Kazekage and took his place

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Given the possession of Kinkaku and Ginkaku in Kabuto’s collection – it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Oro or BZ were in command of Kumogakure’s Kinkaku Force (Kumogakure’s Special Unit) who attacked the Second Hokage (later assinating him) and Raikage and kidnapped both Kushina and Hinata

Kinkaku Force is often translated into English as the Master Bounty Hunter Unit but they have Kinkaku’s name

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Assassination of the 2nd Hokage

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Kidnap of Kushina

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Kidnap of Hinata

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As for Konoha – Danzo might have been nominally in charge but he seems to have been the guinea pig of Orochimaru and was co-operating with him long after Oro attacked the leaf… in secret. It seems strange that Sharingan ended up both in Tobi’s Sharingan collection and in Danzo’s Arm unless there was some covert co-operation between Orochimaru and BZ. It would also make sense how and why Root did nothing to invervene when Pain attacked Konoha:

Co-operation

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Experimentation – Sharingan in Danzo’s arm

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…and in Tobi’s collection

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Tobi wasn’t working with Danzo or Orochimaru. Itachi secretly worked against Madara / Tobi and Orochimaru. That leaves BZ to have supplied the Sharingan to Orochimaru.

Root sit back and watch Konoha get turned to rubble in the Yamato Works:

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What doesn’t make sense is why if the Shinigami were Jashin, would he allow himself to be used to attack Orochimaru. I have not real answer to this except to suggest that it could be an elaborate ploy by an immortal to get away with starting a war without the messy job of actually having to administer a conquered village. Who would want to be Hokage?

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Not to mention the suspicious side mission Kabuto ran during the invasion to perform tests on Hinata (the heir to Kaguya’s Royal Blood and the Dojutsu of Byakugan):

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All in all the grasp of Orochimaru and BZ covers the entire Ninja World. It’s ethos is the curse of hatred. It is not overly concerned with conquest so long as there is strife. It revels in human sacrifice, corrupting the powerful and then using their bodies once it is done with them … and all in the name of Jashin. At the end of this arc I expect Hamura to be reborn.

Getting back down to earth again, a lot of this is just speculation but the above highlights the very real links that exist between Orochimaru, Black Zetsu and Jashin. Quite what the true relationship is between them all is shrouded in mystery. The above theory could be tweeked any number of ways. Naga could be one character or they could be many. However I think this is a good starting point for speculation on where a part three might delve.

We’ll probably only know how close Hamura was to the snakes when we get a look at what he was riding. In his battle to seal his mother he stood atop a helmet:

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You can tell it is a helmet by the Shinobi-no-o that ties around the top. This is the band that sometimes was worn around Samurai helmets and which was tied in much the same knot and with the same materials as this helmet:

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If any of this theory …correction … these theories is/are true then I expect the White Snake to be Hamura’s friendly summon:

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Of course there is probably too much material for the Manga to run through in a couple of weeks or even months. I think this story could last through Part 3 – What you could call the start of a new era project…YeeHa!

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We're gonna need a bigger snake…

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…or a holy hand grenade (Rasengan FTW)

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Because you know there’s nothing quite like the Curse of Hatred:

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…to spin the wheel of life:

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…all it needs is a new wind

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Last edited: Aug 15, 2014

Reactions: HalcyonDays, ROHAN, johnny335704 and 3 others

IcedFox

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#2

So friggin lengthy, and I don't have enough time to read it all. I will read it when I get back home from work though!

So far I've reached thourgh half of it, and god damn man, you put alot of effort in this.

Well done!

KayaUzumaki

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#3

It's a lot to read through, but very well thought out. +rep!

Angelic.

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#4

nice.
i remeber tobi saying ''will you stay a snake or become a hawk'' about sasuke. sasukes snake venom was taken away. he has both snake and hawk summons.

also obito here is said to be a snake.

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he was controlled by juubi at the time

Last edited: Aug 12, 2014

Draxus

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#5

That last part with Oro has absolutely nothing to do with Kaguya. That was symbolism for Oro (snake) sneaking up and swallowing up his unsuspecting prey "whoever he's watching" (rabbit).

Rabbit Teth

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#6

obikage said:
nice.
i remeber tobi saying ''will you stay a snake or become a hawk'' about sasuke. sasukes snake venom was taken away. he has both snake and hawk summons.

also obito here is said to be a snake.
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he was controlled by juubi at the time

I cut some similar stuff about Sasuke out. As if this wasn't long enough I might have to add a new section. Good spot on Obito. I had blanked most of that war section out from my memory. There's one exception to the rule on dragons but there's nothing definitive to say he wasn't cursed as well. In fact he'd be a prime target if we ever get to find out more about the Bloody mist era.

Draxus said:
That last part with Oro has absolutely nothing to do with Kaguya. That was symbolism for Oro (snake) sneaking up and swallowing up his unsuspecting prey "whoever he's watching" (rabbit).

The Samsara has many variations. Most of them have a Hawk (/bird), a Snake and a Rodent (that would be a Rabbit in this case) or pig. The Samsara turns up all over the place in the manga. It represents the futility of moving from one delusion to the next. Lust turns to Greed turns to Hatred (or some variation thereon) is the meaning. The message is to escape the hum drum cycle of life and transcend to greater understanding of the world and one's emotions. Animals are often used as metaphors in the manga (like Neji's Bird in the cage). I think Kishi is closing Part 2 while continuing the story about the curse of hatred and that he's signposted his message along the way in traditional fashion. That's the theory anyway.

jutsu

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#7

read all almost an hour and a half
really a great theory here

when you mentioned bout the black marks I reminded to Hidan's Curse jutsu in which his skin turns black like BZ but he doesn't have a Naga technique

Last edited: Aug 12, 2014

johnny335704

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#8

Nice Theory however long one. + Rep. Some links are really good between Indian mythology stories & manga.

ROHAN

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#9

Amazing Theory. + Rep and Five Stars.

Seventh Sama

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#10

Good read, however this is too complex even for kishi....

Rabbit Teth

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#11

jutsu said:
read all almost an hour and a half
really a great theory here

when you mentioned bout the black marks I reminded to Hidan's Curse jutsu in which his skin turns black like BZ but he doesn't have a Naga technique

… and this is the abridged version. If Kishi were taking this angle then there's no way the Manga is wrapping up in a couple of months, at least in my opinion.

I left Hidan out because he doesn't obviously follow the Dragon pattern. That said, there is definitely a case to be made for him fitting the snake venom induced transformation pattern that also fits with the Shinigami and most of Akatsuki. I focused on the ones that are overtly connected to snakes but both Hidan and Kakuzu go through similar processes as well.

Snake Venom Transformation

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Kaguya goes through the process (NB bottom left hand corner);

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Kakuzu:

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… and Hidan:

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Obito even makes a joke about Madara being connected to the Shinigami because of his Scythe – but the observation connects Madara to Hidan and the Shinigami as well

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