[DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmies)

[RustledJimmies]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Arent you supposes to give your verdict after the debate is over?

The debate is over.

 

[moihican]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

LolOh ok,got ya.

 

[Prince Charles]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

@Rj's counter to evani

Your intro

Yeah i agree amaterasu and gen sh1t on summons all day! but at the same time evani did propose some good counter measures and scenario's for the toads?

Your rasegan argument
It sounded good but then I read kg's argument against it in his counters and he sounds pretty correct so Ill have to disagree with you on the whole rib cage tanking the rasegan thing.

I agree with your analysis regarding the whole amaterasu consuming frs and sasuke using the advantage to use kirin! but then I read Kg's counter for that part as well and what he said sounded correct and he gave a counter, instead of throwing the frs and giving sasuke the opportunity to use enton on it, naruto or clones can use chakra arm to guide it around or behind sasuke.

Kg also gave a good counter to your '' finishing off naruto'' part as well.

ON tto your counters

I like how you went back tot he whole sasuke following Ei thing, I didn't see KG comment on it so I presume as he said that you guys agreed on it. Instead of leaving it alone and giving the win to Evani you went back to it and basically said FUK YOU to evani's face and said SASUKE DID FOLLOW EI and I liked that!

So although in evani's counter to unorthodox his rebuttal did sound good but reading what you said I think ill go with your reasoning and the fact that KG didnt comment on it, atleast I didnt see im comment on it? If he did thats my bad

Although like I said if its not mangafact and showed in regards to sasuke seeing through clones! you went back to it and provided some good reasoning and you counter evani's thought on it with a manga scan of madara saying they similar comas, Ill be honest I wouldnt be surprise if sasuke can different clones but at the same time it has not been shown in the manga but I do respect you for not giving up on the matter and providing some good logic! although it isnt fact it doesnt hurt to bring it up in a debate.

Rasenshuriken also travels in a straight line, I don't see your point here. Even Pain dodged Rasenshuriken.

Madara was distracted by Mei's Lava.

Good counter to evani! but then again chakra arms bro...

Regarding your statements about amaterasu finishing off the toads such as this

The toads are non-factors here, they all get killed by Amaterasu .

I didn't see KG comment on that unless im mistaken so i figure you guys agree that, that is the case? weird because evani did provide some good scenario's against that outcome for the toads? But I guess you guys talked after this and agreed evani's scenario was false or something along those lines because I didnt KG comment on that part of your counter so Ill give it you.

I also liked this counter to normal frs that you proposed

Sasuke can surround himself with Enton, if clones try to use FRS variants, they get consumed as soon as they come in contact with the flames.

Nice job making KG say forget about food cart destroyer

The summoner needs to summon above the target to use Food Cart Destroyer, if Naruto jumps above Sasuke, he will be vulnerable to take Amaterasu, Also, I would like to hear you explain how a Toad would survive using food cart destroyer on a Susano'o covered with Enton.

Forget about FCD

Nice counter to Evani

They aren't more potent because the chakra is darker, but KCM Naruto's chakra arms have no durability feats that would make it more durable than the V2 Jinchuuriki's.

I guess evani got a bit cocky?

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Bad
Some of your enton/frs stuff was a bit off like the percentage and etc
and the whole seeing thru clone stuff
and speed scenarios

Kaguya with all three doujutsu (sharingan, rinnegan and byakugan) couldn't tell the difference between Naruto clones btw... So it's safe to assume Madara only had that ability with Hasirama's wood clones (not all clones).

this is true as well

 

[Haizaki]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Lol PC IM NOT COCKYYYY

 

[Prince Charles]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Lol PC IM NOT COCKYYYY

man idk bro all them blue icon faces you fired at unorthodox opening lol

@KG your judgement is coming later

 

[Haizaki]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

man idk bro all them blue icon faces you fired at unorthodox opening lol

@KG your judgement is coming later

Lol unorthodox is cocky though. He told me not to even reply to his post cuz it's over.

 

[KidGamer65]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

^ Alright bro. btw, I didn't reply to the Sasuke tracking Ay stuff cause he said it was irrelevant, as Sasuke tracked Juubito (which is true)

 

[Prince Charles]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

^ Alright bro. btw, I didn't reply to the Sasuke tracking Ay stuff cause he said it was irrelevant, as Sasuke tracked Juubito (which is true)

oh alright bro

 

[Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

KCM Naruto takes this .

 

[Gold Lightning]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

I've never thought EMS Sasuke was above KCM Naruto. So it'll be interesting to see the verdict of this, can't wait.

 

[ARGUS]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Lol unorthodox is cocky though. He told me not to even reply to his post cuz it's over.

Hes not cocky, he's realistic
Almighty Unorthdox >>> All

 

[BlacLord™]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Sasuke would win.

Ramp up Naruto to BSM, or even BM and then things get interesting.

 

[Bogard]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Sasuke would win.

Ramp up Naruto to BSM, or even BM and then things get interesting.

He isn't winning KCM Naruto with perfect and legged Susanoo restricted and gets wrecked by BM let alone BSM Naruto

 

[KidGamer65]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Sasuke would win.

Ramp up Naruto to BSM, or even BM and then things get interesting.

Did you read the restrictions?

 

[ARGUS]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Sasuke would win.

Ramp up Naruto to BSM, or even BM and then things get interesting.

BM naruto would wreck EMS Sasuke with these restrictions,
and even if sasuke is unrestricted, his PS has nothing against Narutos firepower,
BSM is overkill

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

I'll go post by post to make this simple.

Spoiler

Unorthodox; Your counter was rather simple, not in a negative way. But it merely held what I believe everyone would of expected it to. Really, only a few points struck out to me. The assumption that EMS Sasuke can see the difference between Shadow Clones. There wasn't much evidence put forth by you to help this other than using the point that Madara was capable of doing this, which isn't too strong. I also feel like you underwhelmed the Fuuton Rasenshuriken when suggesting that it would immediately be over taken when in contact with Enton wrapped around Susano'o. I realize you may not of just went into grander detail on the quantity of Enton surrounding Susano'o, but from what we saw Sasuke use previously leaves me with honest doubts it would engulf the entire Fuuton Rasenshuriken before it erupts.


Evani; I felt like you did a good job at debunking a few claims from Unorthodox. Such as the tracing Ay's movements and your creative solution to summonings not being instantly defeated by Sasuke. Though, I do feel as if these points weren't or shouldn't of been too much of a focus. After all, Sasuke had kept tabs on a superior opponent than V2 Ay and I highly doubt boss summons will turn the tide of battle or help to do so. Brownie points for providing these arguments nonetheless, though.


The use of Ma's dust cloud jutsu was interesting, a decent counter to Amaterasu and blinding Sasuke temporarily as it was shown the Sharingan being useless in a similar situation. That being Zabuza's Mist. Your argument based on Naruto evading Amaterasu was a bit choppy. I agree with you, but you really didn't post much to support it other than, "He can,". Which was just lack luster, in my opinion at the least. Altogether, a good post and counter to Unorthodox's opener.

The Next post belongs to that over used meme, Rustle Jimmies: You started with the simple explanation on why Summonings are useless here, at least on the larger spectrum of things. But I feel like you were too cut and dry for this, especially considering Evani's prior post gave insight on how they may not be instantly defeated and can provide their uses.

I'll admit; Your "Finishing Off Naruto," section was great and at first convinced me. But, after reading Kidgamer69's counter to it I just can't give you the win for this argument, despite giving such a great one for it. I don't believe Unorthodox managed to counter it well enough in his last post. But, I'll get more on this in my next two or so paragraphs. As for the rest; It was fairly sound. The chakra potency between the KCM and V2 is something I agree with you on.

You brought up and defended Sasuke's insight and how he can potentially see through clones. I'm more mixed on this; As you did present some more (limited, albeit,) evidence for this. On to the seeing through the dust cloud; Can't say I agree with your assertions. He may be able to see chakra, but with a thick cloud of chakra around him I doubt his ability to see through it well enough. Good post, all in all. Felt that you could of put forth a better argument for the fuuton rasenshuriken discussion.


Kidgamer69's post; You started with what is become a rather comment post from you; The Susano'o being shredded by the Odama(?) Rasengan. You put down a good deal of information on your reasonings behind this, following up with how the rasengan variants stack up to Susano'o. I'll take your power adjustment and comparison to Danzo's fuuton with a grain of salt, as there were different factors at play. But I pretty much found your first section to be well founded.


You followed up with the statement that Enton must be comparable to the fuuton rasenganshuriken if it is to engulf it (At a break back speed,); Which I feel like your side has been responding better and better to this more so then not.

Spoiler

Completely wrong. Yes, Sasuke's eye can track Juubito's flight speed, does that mean he can hit anyone slower with Amaterasu? No. Amaterasu converges at the spot where the user's eyesight is. If Naruto Shunshins to Sasuke's rear as Amaterasu converges, just how Ay did it, it won't matter if the Sharingan can follow him, cause he'd be evading the actual jutsu itself. Not to mention Sasuke can't turn his head faster than Naruto can flash Shunshin to his backside, meaning he can't hit him with Amaterasu if he can't see him.

Basically Sasuke's precog being better won't change how fast the jutsu spawns, which isn't instantaneous, its slower than Ay. Tracking wasn't even the main reason Ay evaded Amaterasu, its because the jutsu formed too slow to hit him. Naruto evades it with ease.

Naruto can sense chakra in this mode as well as negative emotions. He'd be able to act before Amaterasu ever landed. Naruto can clone feint Amaterasu too.

Ma and Pa can be summoned as well and synced to a clone for a continuous Sage Mode. Ma and Pa have their dust cloud, which is filled with chakra so the Sharingan can't see through it, to block Sasuke's vision allowing Naruto to easily flash Shunshin to his rear and slam a Rasen Shuriken into his Susanoo, which will cause heavy damage to any version that isn't V4.

Also, Kabuto could be tracked by Sasuke, yet he still evaded his arrow. Proof that tracking doesn't mean you'll always hit the target.

Naruto has too many counters. Lets not start "Amaterasu GG" here. Please..

This basically was the best argument on either side for Naruto evading Amaterasu. As I mentioned earlier, your explanation on how Naruto evades this was far better than the competitions. The speed of Amaterasu itself and how it doesn't matter if Sasuke can react to Naruto, but if the techniques speed is slower than Naruto's was the most integral part. At least for me. The Dust Cloud expansion is nothing more then what was brought up earlier, still nice to see however. I felt like you also managed to bring more evidence supporting your sides claim of Sasuke not being able to see through the clones

Moving onto Unorthodox's last post. I didn't find your counter to Kidgamer's beginning portion all too good, in all honesty. at least not on why a massive rasengan couldn't rip through a Susano'o skeleton, comparing it to an attack that works differently really confused me. Though, I'll admit your strategy on using the limbs of the Susano'o as an extra buffer are good.


You really didn't do too well of a counter against the next part, either. As the facts stand the fuuton rasengshuriken has shown to be comparable to if not surpassing Danzo's fuuton with their War Arc feats of even slicing through the Juubi. As for the Enton/Amaterasu argument, not sure how you disproved any earlier claims of how comparable enton is required to quickly defeat a Rasenshuriken, the Yasaka Magatama's I just don't see as quick enough counters to this technique.


The rest of your post was long, so forgive me but I will cut down to the arguments that I felt were important. The Dust v. Sharingan discussion you expanded on. I don't really see how noticing chakra in an open environment is a counter to the sharingan being blinded by a chakra formed cloud of dust. If it were not for the fact that he would be surrounded by chakra, I would agree with you. The speed of shadow clones, you set forth a good scan to help your case. But, even with that, Evani in his next post had even found a way to counter it. All in all, I felt like your counters were a bit shallow or near sighted.


Evani: This part will be extremely brief, and I apologize for it. It's just for the fact that as I read this, I have been sitting here for close to two and a half hours now. You successfully countered the argument Orthodox presented on why Sasuke could see through the clones. The sharinnegan's capabilities leading one to believe that it should have all the insight of it's former eyes stacked on.

I was a bit skeptical at the end portion you added on. But, the sheer difference in power between a large rasengan and rasenshuriken is evident enough. As well as the AoE a rasengshuriken of average sizes can expand too. I once more apologize for not including more. But, the reason for this is that Unorthodox either didn't counter the previous post well enough that I felt it needed to even expand on to it anymore. Or, it didn't seem like something that truly effected the sides of the match up.

Spoiler

Spoiler

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Spoiler

Spoiler

God damn read the reasoning first before skipping to this, ye' ass holes.

Spoiler

The winners go to those defending Naruto; Evan and Kidgamer69. Though, I will tip my hat at the other team, particularly RustledPanties. His post was rather well done and it's a shame he didn't get a second chance to counter Team 1.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

RustledPanties ? Lol, looks like TheAsshurtCenturion is still mad that Esdese > Budo. Anyways, thanks for judging.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

RustledPanties ? Lol, looks like TheAsshurtCenturion is still mad that Esdese > Budo. Anyways, thanks for judging.

I still have yet to see any counters to Budo elbow slapping the *****. No problem, and good debate man

 

[RustledJimmies]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

I still have yet to see any counters to Budo elbow slapping the *****. No problem, and good debate man

Freezing time hax GG Thanks bro.

 

[Unorthodox]

Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi

Kaguya with all three doujutsu (sharingan, rinnegan and byakugan) couldn't tell the difference between Naruto clones btw... So it's safe to assume Madara only had that ability with Hasirama's wood clones (not all clones).

Madara clearly saw right threws Naruto's bushin

I'll go post by post to make this simple.

Spoiler

Unorthodox; Your counter was rather simple, not in a negative way. But it merely held what I believe everyone would of expected it to. Really, only a few points struck out to me. The assumption that EMS Sasuke can see the difference between Shadow Clones. There wasn't much evidence put forth by you to help this other than using the point that Madara was capable of doing this, which isn't too strong. I also feel like you underwhelmed the Fuuton Rasenshuriken when suggesting that it would immediately be over taken when in contact with Enton wrapped around Susano'o. I realize you may not of just went into grander detail on the quantity of Enton surrounding Susano'o, but from what we saw Sasuke use previously leaves me with honest doubts it would engulf the entire Fuuton Rasenshuriken before it erupts.


Evani; I felt like you did a good job at debunking a few claims from Unorthodox. Such as the tracing Ay's movements and your creative solution to summonings not being instantly defeated by Sasuke. Though, I do feel as if these points weren't or shouldn't of been too much of a focus. After all, Sasuke had kept tabs on a superior opponent than V2 Ay and I highly doubt boss summons will turn the tide of battle or help to do so. Brownie points for providing these arguments nonetheless, though.


The use of Ma's dust cloud jutsu was interesting, a decent counter to Amaterasu and blinding Sasuke temporarily as it was shown the Sharingan being useless in a similar situation. That being Zabuza's Mist. Your argument based on Naruto evading Amaterasu was a bit choppy. I agree with you, but you really didn't post much to support it other than, "He can,". Which was just lack luster, in my opinion at the least. Altogether, a good post and counter to Unorthodox's opener.

The Next post belongs to that over used meme, Rustle Jimmies: You started with the simple explanation on why Summonings are useless here, at least on the larger spectrum of things. But I feel like you were too cut and dry for this, especially considering Evani's prior post gave insight on how they may not be instantly defeated and can provide their uses.

I'll admit; Your "Finishing Off Naruto," section was great and at first convinced me. But, after reading Kidgamer69's counter to it I just can't give you the win for this argument, despite giving such a great one for it. I don't believe Unorthodox managed to counter it well enough in his last post. But, I'll get more on this in my next two or so paragraphs. As for the rest; It was fairly sound. The chakra potency between the KCM and V2 is something I agree with you on.

You brought up and defended Sasuke's insight and how he can potentially see through clones. I'm more mixed on this; As you did present some more (limited, albeit,) evidence for this. On to the seeing through the dust cloud; Can't say I agree with your assertions. He may be able to see chakra, but with a thick cloud of chakra around him I doubt his ability to see through it well enough. Good post, all in all. Felt that you could of put forth a better argument for the fuuton rasenshuriken discussion.


Kidgamer69's post; You started with what is become a rather comment post from you; The Susano'o being shredded by the Odama(?) Rasengan. You put down a good deal of information on your reasonings behind this, following up with how the rasengan variants stack up to Susano'o. I'll take your power adjustment and comparison to Danzo's fuuton with a grain of salt, as there were different factors at play. But I pretty much found your first section to be well founded.


You followed up with the statement that Enton must be comparable to the fuuton rasenganshuriken if it is to engulf it (At a break back speed,); Which I feel like your side has been responding better and better to this more so then not.


This basically was the best argument on either side for Naruto evading Amaterasu. As I mentioned earlier, your explanation on how Naruto evades this was far better than the competitions. The speed of Amaterasu itself and how it doesn't matter if Sasuke can react to Naruto, but if the techniques speed is slower than Naruto's was the most integral part. At least for me. The Dust Cloud expansion is nothing more then what was brought up earlier, still nice to see however. I felt like you also managed to bring more evidence supporting your sides claim of Sasuke not being able to see through the clones

Moving onto Unorthodox's last post. I didn't find your counter to Kidgamer's beginning portion all too good, in all honesty. at least not on why a massive rasengan couldn't rip through a Susano'o skeleton, comparing it to an attack that works differently really confused me. Though, I'll admit your strategy on using the limbs of the Susano'o as an extra buffer are good.


You really didn't do too well of a counter against the next part, either. As the facts stand the fuuton rasengshuriken has shown to be comparable to if not surpassing Danzo's fuuton with their War Arc feats of even slicing through the Juubi. As for the Enton/Amaterasu argument, not sure how you disproved any earlier claims of how comparable enton is required to quickly defeat a Rasenshuriken, the Yasaka Magatama's I just don't see as quick enough counters to this technique.


The rest of your post was long, so forgive me but I will cut down to the arguments that I felt were important. The Dust v. Sharingan discussion you expanded on. I don't really see how noticing chakra in an open environment is a counter to the sharingan being blinded by a chakra formed cloud of dust. If it were not for the fact that he would be surrounded by chakra, I would agree with you. The speed of shadow clones, you set forth a good scan to help your case. But, even with that, Evani in his next post had even found a way to counter it. All in all, I felt like your counters were a bit shallow or near sighted.


Evani: This part will be extremely brief, and I apologize for it. It's just for the fact that as I read this, I have been sitting here for close to two and a half hours now. You successfully countered the argument Orthodox presented on why Sasuke could see through the clones. The sharinnegan's capabilities leading one to believe that it should have all the insight of it's former eyes stacked on.

I was a bit skeptical at the end portion you added on. But, the sheer difference in power between a large rasengan and rasenshuriken is evident enough. As well as the AoE a rasengshuriken of average sizes can expand too. I once more apologize for not including more. But, the reason for this is that Unorthodox either didn't counter the previous post well enough that I felt it needed to even expand on to it anymore. Or, it didn't seem like something that truly effected the sides of the match up.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

God damn read the reasoning first before skipping to this, ye' ass holes.

Spoiler

The winners go to those defending Naruto; Evan and Kidgamer69. Though, I will tip my hat at the other team, particularly RustledPanties. His post was rather well done and it's a shame he didn't get a second chance to counter Team 1.

OMG we losing and you just try to shit all over my second post im hurt we cant lose this.

also i would like to add even if we lose this EMS Sasuke > KMC Naruto and i would like a re trial