Top 15 with Explanation....

[Oblivionx]

okay it's my top 15 and not yours so don't bash or troll here... :stfu:
your suggestions with reasoning are welcomed.... :hooray:
edo tensei as in technique is restricted....
also 11 through 15 are pretty close e.g tobirama has a shot on nagato but nagato can defeat more people overall... also DSM kabuto, jiraya and itachi are pretty close but i had to arrange them in some order and this seems legit to me... *_*
n now i'll get straight to the point...

1. Kaguya::::well it's going to take both sasky and naruto to take her down whether you like it or not...
2. Madara:::: with 3 eyes and gudodamas i.e prime well no explanation needed....
3. Hogoromo::::is hyped to create moon, was below only kaguya before madara but is hype only so madara gets the benefit of doubt
4 . Naruto:::: has fire power which equates jubi's jins, has speed to surprise kaguya and durability as well
5. Obito:::: with gudodamas and jubi's sensing and almost immortality(remember was defeated due to tailed beast pulled out which sasuke has no way of doing) hence is above sasuke
6. Sasuke:::: no explanation needed really but his teleportation is a pain along with PS....
7.BM Minato:::: has speed, ftg, fire power of a jin and is one of the best tactician.. and he is above kakashi and gai as ftg betters kamui, BM neutralizes PS and again ftg for 8th gate....
8,9. Kakashi, Gai:::: PS, kamui... we know the force PS is and with kamui snipe... it's one hell of a combo... and Gai has 8th gate which is actually a suicidal move but can still do the job... strongest taijutsu and made a paste of madara... if hit nobody is surviving other than jubi's jins...
10. SM Hashirama:::: well wood style needs no explanation but few may say he beats some from up above so for them and that them being minato as kakashi beats him with kamui and gai needs no explanation... well with ftg minato can literally avoid anything hashirama has and with BM he gets stamina on par with hashirama, also he is better tactician and honestly has all 4 things namely speed, power, genjutsu and reactions while hashirama has 3, power, genjutsu which is useless against minato btw and reactions and latter coming from madara's feat, so by default he loses...
11. Nagato:::: it's actually healthy nagato, so ...
12. DSM Kabuto:::: he has a wide arsenal of moves, and is tenacious as snake...
13. Tobirama:::: merely ftg and GF puts him here....
14. Jirayia:::: again wide arsenal of moves, has SM and itachi hyped him
15. Itachi:::: no explanation needed though he is one of my favs but that's where he stands right now...

about ashura's and indra's power level we don't know anything also i shouldn't have included sage either but i guess we have an idea of his power.....
Enjoy... :flowers

 

[BlacLord™]

Shite list.

Neither BSM Naruto or EMS Sasuke could have took down Juubito alone, it was a combined effort. After receiving the Sage's power, either of them could take down Juubito alone.

 

[Oblivionx]

Shite list.

Neither BSM Naruto or EMS Sasuke could have took down Juubito alone, it was a combined effort. After receiving the Sage's power, either of them could take down Juubito alone.

lol i never said they did... it's current naruto and sasuke not BSM or EMS.....
and did you even read?? i gave reasons to why obito defeats sasuke...

 

[MickNerks]

Having BM Minato above Might Guy and Kakashi is a mistake.

Minato is not stronger than Might Guy, Kakashi, or SM Hashirama

 

[Unorthodox]

Having BM Minato above Might Guy and Kakashi is a mistake.

Minato is not stronger than Might Guy, Kakashi, or SM Hashirama

this but he's obviously a fanboy

 

[elsepa]

this but he's obviously a fanboy

This right here.

 

[ARGUS]

your list doesnt show any explanations, as this is clearly biased

--Lol at BM Minato being above 8th gate guy, the latter blows a whole and tears him apart, his FTG might be faster but minato is never ever reacting to guys speed at all, as EE and NM rip through his avatar,

--SM Hashirama also overwhelms/restrains him through his SS and mokuton variants

--Hagoromo also shits on Juubi Madara,
Non-Jin old hagoromos halves were overwhelming him, and are fighting kaguya,
prime hagoromo would take a dump on this madara

--Jiraiya is also far too high on ur list,
Killer Bee shits on him, Tobiramas FTG is too much for him as well, and Itachis amaterasu and susanoo take him down too,

 

[Oblivionx]

Having BM Minato above Might Guy and Kakashi is a mistake.

Minato is not stronger than Might Guy, Kakashi, or SM Hashirama

yeah not stronger but ftg is faster than both gai and kamui...
And 8th gate is on time limit... Also avatar might let him take a hit if he can't avoid though i can't imagine that as he has ftg... And how kakashi has a chance?
And i already gave quite a few reasons why minato beats hashirama.. So your counter to those arguments?

 

[Oblivionx]

this but he's obviously a fanboy

are you hurt because i put sasky below naruto?

 

[Oblivionx]

This right here.

read read read.,

 

[Oblivionx]

your list doesnt show any explanations, as this is clearly biased

--Lol at BM Minato being above 8th gate guy, the latter blows a whole and tears him apart, his FTG might be faster but minato is never ever reacting to guys speed at all, as EE and NM rip through his avatar,

--SM Hashirama also overwhelms/restrains him through his SS and mokuton variants

--Hagoromo also shits on Juubi Madara,
Non-Jin old hagoromos halves were overwhelming him, and are fighting kaguya,
prime hagoromo would take a dump on this madara

--Jiraiya is also far too high on ur list,
Killer Bee shits on him, Tobiramas FTG is too much for him as well, and Itachis amaterasu and susanoo take him down too,

you are telling me an ftg user can't get away from a taijutsu user?
Minato jumped infron't of gai in cannon and got away... With 8th gate, gai is a time bomb... Yes i know that EE is dangerous but avatar is just for 1 hit that is if gai can manage it... If minato goes on defense then gai has no way of getting to him... minato's reactions are top notch and you have no proof that minato can't react to gai...

Now on to 2nd part.. I gave quite a beautiful explanation for this but i guess you can't read...
TBB or ftg shit on all other variants of mokuton other than SS... And tell me how SS is going to catch ftg user? It didn't even hit madara.. Did it? After susano was destroyed(a large slow entity) where was SS? Battle continued on but SS didn't make a paste of madara... It has zero speed feats to catch minato let alone minato can teleport it away as well... Or get in CQC with hashirama where it won't attack...
also you said restrain an ftg user... you do remember even god tree couldn't do that.. right? minato avoided it with pure shunshin while naruto got trapped and with ftg it's even easier... don't tell me what god tree couldn't do, hashirama can...

Now to 3rd part... It's not hogoromo's parts, it's naruto and sasuke... They have their own techs, hogoromo didn't had... Also hogoromo admitted that kaguya was stronger.. And i also said i shouldn't have included him as we don't have feats from him... And for hype, DSM kabuto thought he has gotten closer to sage, madara said obito is like sage, so you don't have clear cut definition of his power.. I really shouldn't have included him.. But what's done is done..

Now on to last part, i said 11 through 15 are pretty close... Itachi hyped jiraya in cannon so he is above him... Bee may defeat jiraya but it's debatable and bee loses to tobirama and itachi where jiraya has his chances as SM sensing for ftg though i think i'll move tobirama above him... i can agree to that...

 

[ARGUS]

you are telling me an ftg user can't get away from a taijutsu user?
Minato jumped infron't of gai in cannon and got away... With 8th gate, gai is a time bomb... Yes i know that EE is dangerous but avatar is just for 1 hit that is if gai can manage it... If minato goes on defense then gai has no way of getting to him... minato's reactions are top notch and you have no proof that minato can't react to gai...

speed and reactions/reflexes are two different things,

Minato is never reacting to 8th gate guys speed, meaning that he wont be able to execute FTG to teleport away
yeah once minato is hit by only one hit from EE, he is done for, since the other hits are landed within seconds, and minato is not tracking guys speed as well,

Minatos reactions are no where near 8th gate guy,

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and resulted in his arm getting chopped off,

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, the same guys whose reaction feats, speed and reflexes are no where near juubi madara,
the same guy who was getting ragdolled by 8th gate guy, and struggled to even track him,
yet you think that minato who has far inferior reflexes and reaction feats, would track 8th gate guy, andd beat him,
just because you think ''minatos reactions are top notch'' please, gimme a break

Now on to 2nd part.. I gave quite a beautiful explanation for this but i guess you can't read...

Your explanation was ''minato has 4 things, and hashirama has 3'' great theory, and then you insult me that i cant read

TBB or ftg shit on all other variants of mokuton other than SS... And tell me how SS is going to catch ftg user? It didn't even hit madara.. Did it? After susano was destroyed(a large slow entity) where was SS? Battle continued on but SS didn't make a paste of madara... It has zero speed feats to catch minato let alone minato can teleport it away as well... Or get in CQC with hashirama where it won't attack...
also you said restrain an ftg user... you do remember even god tree couldn't do that.. right? minato avoided it with pure shunshin while naruto got trapped and with ftg it's even easier... don't tell me what god tree couldn't do, hashirama can...

Hashirama can use his mokutons to hold the TBBs and can redirect them right back at minato,
SS is going to overwhelm the FTG user, its AOE easily bypasses the limits of FTG meaning that minato is getting overwhelmed, hashirama dooesnt need to restrain him, seeing how he has the means to simply overwhelm him, and can also outlast his 5/8 min limit
furthermore minatos kurama avatar is just as durable as PS (if not then even less), the same PS which was destroyed by only one chojo kobetsu, moreover i said restrain his bijuu chakra, not the FTG user, so ur wrong there as well,

i wont bother with a minato fapboy, if he doesnt even read my posts properly and is too reluctant to admit the fact that he is wrong or that his character can lose

Now to 3rd part... It's not hogoromo's parts, it's naruto and sasuke... They have their own techs, hogoromo didn't had... Also hogoromo admitted that kaguya was stronger.. And i also said i shouldn't have included him as we don't have feats from him... And for hype, DSM kabuto thought he has gotten closer to sage, madara said obito is like sage, so you don't have clear cut definition of his power.. I really shouldn't have included him.. But what's done is done..

Umm, Naruto and sasuke can only compete with god tiers mainly due to recieving the sun and moon power from non-jin old hagoromo, without him, their BSM and EMS form respectively gets shat on by any god tier,

the fact that you think naruto/sasukes own techniques are superiorr to the guy who is the father of all shinobi and the founder of ninshuu then you need to read the manga properly,

if you dont wannt to include hagoromo on ur list then thats fine,but he shits on madara,
his deathbed CT created the moon, yet full powers madaras CT is nothing in front of it,
and obito was referred as the sage just like madara, due to both of them possessing the senju/uchhiha powers alongside the juubi, it doesnnt mean that they are comparable to the sage,

Now on to last part, i said 11 through 15 are pretty close... Itachi hyped jiraya in cannon so he is above him... Bee may defeat jiraya but it's debatable and bee loses to tobirama and itachi where jiraya has his chances as SM sensing for ftg though i think i'll move tobirama above him... i can agree to that...

--Bee shits on Jiraiya, his TBB barrages nuke him off the planet
--Killer Bee can also beat Tobirama under favourable conditions, seeing how once goes full hachibi then theres no way at all tobiramma can even hurt him,
--i wont bother with itachi vs jiraiya, if ur gna use the part 1 hype statement rather than feats than ill just let that go,

but all i would say is that jiraiya is far too high in ur list, and killer bee is a more suitable candidate then jiraiya

 

[Oblivionx]

speed and reactions/reflexes are two different things,

Minato is never reacting to 8th gate guys speed, meaning that he wont be able to execute FTG to teleport away
yeah once minato is hit by only one hit from EE, he is done for, since the other hits are landed within seconds, and minato is not tracking guys speed as well,

Minatos reactions are no where near 8th gate guy,

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and resulted in his arm getting chopped off,

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, the same guys whose reaction feats, speed and reflexes are no where near juubi madara,
the same guy who was getting ragdolled by 8th gate guy, and struggled to even track him,
yet you think that minato who has far inferior reflexes and reaction feats, would track 8th gate guy, andd beat him,
just because you think ''minatos reactions are top notch'' please, gimme a break

though i'm tired right now but still will reply one more time...
didn't lee through kunai right infront of gai and minato teleported there?
okay, lets finish this debate with you showing me a one scan where madara failed to track gai... happy now??
i hope you know the meaning of track as there's a difference between getting tracked and getting hit as madara was clearly going easy on gai and didn't had ftg either... madara didn't use limbo, right... and didn't had ftg to instantly get out of EE's radius... just one scan where madara failed to track gai without any distraction.. remember track...

Your explanation was ''minato has 4 things, and hashirama has 3'' great theory, and then you insult me that i cant read

and anything wrong with it??

Hashirama can use his mokutons to hold the TBBs and can redirect them right back at minato,
SS is going to overwhelm the FTG user, its AOE easily bypasses the limits of FTG meaning that minato is getting overwhelmed, hashirama dooesnt need to restrain him, seeing how he has the means to simply overwhelm him, and can also outlast his 5/8 min limit
furthermore minatos kurama avatar is just as durable as PS (if not then even less), the same PS which was destroyed by only one chojo kobetsu, moreover i said restrain his bijuu chakra, not the FTG user, so ur wrong there as well,

really kifflom, redirect at an S/T user who has S/T barrier... and what about multiple TBB... and you talking about limits of ftg?? there are no limits to ftg...
if you restrict already prepared marking which aren't in this case, minato still had markings outside obito's barrier which exceed AOE of anything hashirama has... those markings were created during battle... minato had a kunai at the ocean during battle... and this isn't the versus thread, it's about who is better overall and for that purpose minato gets his already prepared markings anywhere in the world.. but still,
like last one we can end this debate with one scan too... just give me a scan of SS catching madara or anything that's fast and small... since SS seems to be your best argument...

i wont bother with a minato fapboy, if he doesnt even read my posts properly and is too reluctant to admit the fact that he is wrong or that his character can lose

how sweet of you huh! if i was so reluctant then i wouldn't have moved tobirama above jiraya with your suggestion... but i won't blame you, it's human nature to consider others like you yourself are... and yes i like minato so do i like itachi... itachi is 15 you know...

Umm, Naruto and sasuke can only compete with god tiers mainly due to recieving the sun and moon power from non-jin old hagoromo, without him, their BSM and EMS form respectively gets shat on by any god tier,

the fact that you think naruto/sasukes own techniques are superiorr to the guy who is the father of all shinobi and the founder of ninshuu then you need to read the manga properly,

if you dont wannt to include hagoromo on ur list then thats fine,but he shits on madara,
his deathbed CT created the moon, yet full powers madaras CT is nothing in front of it,
and obito was referred as the sage just like madara, due to both of them possessing the senju/uchhiha powers alongside the juubi, it doesnnt mean that they are comparable to the sage,

1st, BSM naruto and EMS sasuke defeated a jubi's jin... you know what that means??
i never said they techs are superior... now did i?? that's the point.. naruto and sasuke are using their techniques using sage's chakra, that's why they are so strong.. but the point is, it's not just sage's chakra you know... naruto and sasuke can't win against any of god tiers still without using any of their techs... no kagebunshin, naruto is screwed.. now PS or swapping, sasuke gets shiited on...

yes hogoromo is god of shinobi and all and that's why he's in top 3, isn't that... and yeah that moon feat that we didn't see, that's why i put him so high up in the list... but that's it.. we didn't see him fighting so you don't know if he could have fought limbo madara... without feats he gets to 3.. madara fought and showed us feats, he deserves a little credit...

--Bee shits on Jiraiya, his TBB barrages nuke him off the planet
--Killer Bee can also beat Tobirama under favourable conditions, seeing how once goes full hachibi then theres no way at all tobiramma can even hurt him,
--i wont bother with itachi vs jiraiya, if ur gna use the part 1 hype statement rather than feats than ill just let that go,

but all i would say is that jiraiya is far too high in ur list, and killer bee is a more suitable candidate then jiraiya

you know of summons jiraya has?? bee won't even get time to prepare TBB if he summons all of them... also you he can send complete 8 tails underground with that swamp tech he used on manda... i'm not saying jiraya wins.. i'm saying it's debatable...
and tobirama has ftg to avoid anything bee has.. and once he is marked which is even easier to do once he goes hachibi then tobirama can simply blow him up or wait up till BM goes out and slit his throat...
n yeah, it's been debated in many thread and jiraya has always come out as victor other than threads in which spoiled itachi fans trolled....

finally 11-15 are close, bee's not up there because jiraya stands better chance against others like itachi and tobirama then bee does... it's not just between them, it's between everyone... 11-15 may be better than each other... like tobirama vs itachi, i think tobirama wins 6/10.. you may think itachi wins 6/10.. but at the end of day, it's very close.. so leave the close fights up to the opinion...

Kifflom, i know you like to fight, and honestly, i'm not a fan of yours... but i can assure you 1 thing, i'm not like you... you show me evidence and i'll accept it... show me scans and i'll definitely change the order...

 

[ARGUS]

though i'm tired right now but still will reply one more time...
didn't lee through kunai right infront of gai and minato teleported there?

He managed to teleport due to the kunai being tagged by minatos marking, and that was a matter of speed not reflexes, and
Again, i already know that FTG is faster than guys speed, and i am well aware of that, however minato lacks the reflexes to react to him and evade his attacks

okay, lets finish this debate with you showing me a one scan where madara failed to track gai... happy now??

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, nor could he track to 8th gate guys speed, and also

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,
Night moth was even worse, he couldnt even do anything at all against the attack and

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i can show more scans, however these 3 scans should be evident enough to state thhat madara was extremely struggling against 8th gate guys speed,

i hope you know the meaning of track as there's a difference between getting tracked and getting hit as madara was clearly going easy on gai and didn't had ftg either... madara didn't use limbo, right... and didn't had ftg to instantly get out of EE's radius... just one scan where madara failed to track gai without any distraction.. remember track...
and anything wrong with it??[

I am well aware of that,,
Madara going easy or not, he still got blitzed by Guy once he used Night Moth,
how could he use Limbo when he struggled to even react to Guys speed?? and was also well aware that guy couldve evaded the attack with ease,
@bold - Lol Madara doesnt have FTG so ur mistaken there, not to mention that FTG wouldnt have helped anyways
and i am talking about reacting, not tracking,
rinnegan madara reacted to FTG, yet Juubi Jin Madara failed to react to 8th gate guys speed, thats all there is to it

really kifflom, redirect at an S/T user who has S/T barrier... and what about multiple TBB... and you talking about limits of ftg?? there are no limits to ftg...
if you restrict already prepared marking which aren't in this case, minato still had markings outside obito's barrier which exceed AOE of anything hashirama has... those markings were created during battle... minato had a kunai at the ocean during battle... and this isn't the versus thread, it's about who is better overall and for that purpose minato gets his already prepared markings anywhere in the world.. but still,
like last one we can end this debate with one scan too... just give me a scan of SS catching madara or anything that's fast and small... since SS seems to be your best argument...

S/T barrier cant just redirect multiple targets at once, thats why its not happening,, and hashiramas mokuton variants can hold off the TBB perfectly and throw them right back at Minato on top of the fact that the AOE of multiple TBBs along with Chojo Kobetsu would hurt minato more than Hashirama since not only would all the marked locations be destroyed but SS clearly has a hiigher durability in comparison to the kurama avatar,

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, despite the fact that kurama is faster than SS,
Minato resorting to his human state in BM is bad since his durability would drastically decrease thus resulting in him getting crushed by either SS, or getting his chakra taken away by mokujin or mokuryu,
and in his human form he cannt resort to forming TBB and would be unable to evade the large scale attacks as well,
SS doesnt need to lift him or the kurama avatar up, it can overwhelm it through chojo kobetsu,

how sweet of you huh! if i was so reluctant then i wouldn't have moved tobirama above jiraya with your suggestion... but i won't blame you, it's human nature to consider others like you yourself are... and yes i like minato so do i like itachi... itachi is 15 you know...

Sorry,, but i didnt notice u move Tobirama above jiraiya,
and Ok call me a fanboy, i dont take it as an offense, but just one question,
who do yu think im a fanboy of???

1st, BSM naruto and EMS sasuke defeated a jubi's jin... you know what that means??
i never said they techs are superior... now did i?? that's the point.. naruto and sasuke are using their techniques using sage's chakra, that's why they are so strong.. but the point is, it's not just sage's chakra you know... naruto and sasuke can't win against any of god tiers still without using any of their techs... no kagebunshin, naruto is screwed.. now PS or swapping, sasuke gets shiited on...

Juubito would wreck BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke, he was focusing too much energy on the god tree which had nerfed him quite a bit, not to mention that he wouldve killed naruto and sasuke had it not been for them being backed up 2 FTG users, with one of them having BM as well,
his firepower is far too high for their defenses as his mere

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along with sasukes Susanoo (amped by naruto&jugo) and resulted in

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,
my point is that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke would get wrecked against juubito,
their kyuubi susanoo is no where near the juubis power,

moreover, the main reason naruto and sasuke could even use these techniques to such extent is because of the sages powers, without them, any god tier would take a dump on them, heck even RT madara wrecked them

yes hogoromo is god of shinobi and all and that's why he's in top 3, isn't that... and yeah that moon feat that we didn't see, that's why i put him so high up in the list... but that's it.. we didn't see him fighting so you don't know if he could have fought limbo madara... without feats he gets to 3.. madara fought and showed us feats, he deserves a little credit...

The moon feat alone should be sufficient enough for his place above madara, since his CT dwarves madaras, despite him being in his death bed,
and his two halves are currently fighting kaguya who shits on madara, so yes, hagoromo is above madara,

you know of summons jiraya has?? bee won't even get time to prepare TBB if he summons all of them... also you he can send complete 8 tails underground with that swamp tech he used on manda... i'm not saying jiraya wins.. i'm saying it's debatable...

Honestlly

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, and each summon is getting overwhelmed by one of them completely,
seeing how the

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, jiraiya was also brought to the brink of his death by KN4,
Killer Bees hachibi firepower is far too much,
and Yomi Numa is not sinking hachibi before it charges one small TBB and blows jiraiya off, or Killer Bee can just resort to his humman form and negate its doton effect through his raiton affinity

and tobirama has ftg to avoid anything bee has.. and once he is marked which is even easier to do once he goes hachibi then tobirama can simply blow him up or wait up till BM goes out and slit his throat...
n yeah, it's been debated in many thread and jiraya has always come out as victor other than threads in which spoiled itachi fans trolled....

Not really, Tobirama doesnt have any method to hurt Bee once he goes full hachibi mode,
he simply fires off many TBBs as that results in his FTGs limits being succumbed, meaning that he is not evading the attacks, and is getting killed,
Tobirama also doesnt have the S/T barrier to redirect the attacks back at Bee,
and yeah the only way tobirama beats him is if he can mark killerr bee before he goes full hachibi,,
otherwise without edos, tobirama loses to him more times than not,,
like i said, i wont bother with iitachi vs jiraiya,,

finally 11-15 are close, bee's not up there because jiraya stands better chance against others like itachi and tobirama then bee does... it's not just between them, it's between everyone... 11-15 may be better than each other... like tobirama vs itachi, i think tobirama wins 6/10.. you may think itachi wins 6/10.. but at the end of day, it's very close.. so leave the close fights up to the opinion...

Killer Bee stands a better chance against most of the people compared to Jiraiya, his firepower is far too high to be just ignored and his speed and swords work is also very impressive,
hheck killer bee can even beat DSM Kabuto under favourable conditions,
and i agree with you on tobirama beating itachi, i dont know why you are making judgements that i think itachi would win,

Kifflom, i know you like to fight, and honestly, i'm not a fan of yours... but i can assure you 1 thing, i'm not like you... you show me evidence and i'll accept it... show me scans and i'll definitely change the order...

Lol What!, i always concede whenever im wrong, and im not fighting against u, i dont know where u got that from
and it also seeems that you have some personal vendetta against me, however this is just a mere argument,, i dont take it to a personal level, nor am i trying to insult you, or any other user on the base,

 

[Red Slayer]

not bad list but i don't agree complatly

 

[Oblivionx]

not bad list but i don't agree complatly

good..........

 

[Oblivionx]

He managed to teleport due to the kunai being tagged by minatos marking, and that was a matter of speed not reflexes, and
Again, i already know that FTG is faster than guys speed, and i am well aware of that, however minato lacks the reflexes to react to him and evade his attacks

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, nor could he track to 8th gate guys speed, and also

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,

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look at this image... does it show madara failed to react?? can't you see black shield?? this clearly shows that madara couldn't take the attack not that he couldn't react...
now the next image..

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the previous page to this easily shows why minato wins and even here kakashi kamuied the shield first so how madara failed to react again?? when kamui and ftg, the two of the fastest jutsus helped gai on the way and madara still clearly saw gai coming i.e tracked him... and not only madara, minato was also able to track him and thus used ftg... you say ftg is faster but minato can't react... well minato teleported in front of full speed gai and then teleported away... isn't that reacting... it's not that he raced with gai.. he reacted by teleporting away before gai got to him...

Night moth was even worse, he couldnt even do anything at all against the attack and

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i can show more scans, however these 3 scans should be evident enough to state thhat madara was extremely struggling against 8th gate guys speed,

this is image of previous page where night moth started... you say madara was blitzed... you know what blitz means?? madara was able to think that he distorted space and was easily able to track him... this scan proves that gai can't hit minato as at this instant minato teleports to another marking... and may be teleport back when gai is wondering where minato went and deliver a killing blow...

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I am well aware of that,,
Madara going easy or not, he still got blitzed by Guy once he used Night Moth,
how could he use Limbo when he struggled to even react to Guys speed?? and was also well aware that guy couldve evaded the attack with ease,
@bold - Lol Madara doesnt have FTG so ur mistaken there, not to mention that FTG wouldnt have helped anyways

lol they were talking during the battle but madara couldn't have used limbo right?? which doesn't even require hand signs... XD sorry it was really funny... and just for the record, gai can't see or sense limbo so he can't avoid it either....
you didn't even understand what i said lol... i said madara didn't had ftg to move instantly outta the way, that's why he had to tank attacks...

and i am talking about reacting, not tracking,
rinnegan madara reacted to FTG, yet Juubi Jin Madara failed to react to 8th gate guys speed, thats all there is to it

1st rinnegan madara reacted to non BM minato's ftg and BM enhances both striking speed and reflexes... 2nd madara was going easy on gai... his not using limbo proves it.. he wanted to see gai's power and jubi's tanking just like how he wanted to test jubi's power when no one was it's jin...
3rd tell me the working of hirashingiri 1st before telling me non jin madara reacted to ftg... i didn't see any marking near madara and kunai was in tobirama's hand and he was in motion i.e running which point towards a shunshin attack like naruto's against kaguya and in manga shunshin and hirashin have been mixed togather...

S/T barrier cant just redirect multiple targets at once, thats why its not happening,, and hashiramas mokuton variants can hold off the TBB perfectly and throw them right back at Minato on top of the fact that the AOE of multiple TBBs along with Chojo Kobetsu would hurt minato more than Hashirama since not only would all the marked locations be destroyed but SS clearly has a hiigher durability in comparison to the kurama avatar,

only mokujin can do that and it hasn't been shown to redirect or capture multiple TBBs, just like minato hasn't been shown to redirect multiple TBBs... so don't be biased here...
so are you saying hashirama will remain damage-less even if he gets hit with multiple TBBs?? and minato has ftg?? which you clearly don't understand as you are thinking of minato the same as madara... SS is obviously more durable, i didn't say it isn't...

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, despite the fact that kurama is faster than SS,
Minato resorting to his human state in BM is bad since his durability would drastically decrease thus resulting in him getting crushed by either SS, or getting his chakra taken away by mokujin or mokuryu,
and in his human form he cannt resort to forming TBB and would be unable to evade the large scale attacks as well,
SS doesnt need to lift him or the kurama avatar up, it can overwhelm it through chojo kobetsu,

switching between avatar mode and human form is very fast... and i said small and fast.. kurama is neither small nor fast... i wasn't talking about anything faster than SS, i was talking about fast in general like fast shinobis, kunais etc... the fact that madara avoided SS after PS was destroyed shows that it's a non factor in this match up... but obviously you will skip this part like you did earlier...

Sorry,, but i didnt notice u move Tobirama above jiraiya,
and Ok call me a fanboy, i dont take it as an offense, but just one question,
who do yu think im a fanboy of???

i'll tell you.. it's power... hashirama, madara i.e powerhouses...

Juubito would wreck BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke, he was focusing too much energy on the god tree which had nerfed him quite a bit, not to mention that he wouldve killed naruto and sasuke had it not been for them being backed up 2 FTG users, with one of them having BM as well,
his firepower is far too high for their defenses as his mere

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along with sasukes Susanoo (amped by naruto&jugo) and resulted in

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,
my point is that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke would get wrecked against juubito,
their kyuubi susanoo is no where near the juubis power,


moreover, the main reason naruto and sasuke could even use these techniques to such extent is because of the sages powers, without them, any god tier would take a dump on them, heck even RT madara wrecked them

yeah i agree if obito wasn't nerfed then he would have won... but that's how it was... you think madara wasn't nerfed?? or kaguya isn't being nerfed right now?? only thing sage added was enhancement and sealing jutsu... i'm not denying that naruto and sasuke got stronger but they got stronger due to utilizing that chakra with their techs... i'll give you an example...
who do you think is stronger outta the two...
hashirama with sage's chakra (hypothetical) or naruto with sage's chakra??

The moon feat alone should be sufficient enough for his place above madara, since his CT dwarves madaras, despite him being in his death bed,
and his two halves are currently fighting kaguya who shits on madara, so yes, hagoromo is above madara,

yeah an off panel moon feat.. lets leave this as i prefer on panel feats...

Honestlly

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, and each summon is getting overwhelmed by one of them completely,
seeing how the

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, jiraiya was also brought to the brink of his death by KN4,
Killer Bees hachibi firepower is far too much,
and Yomi Numa is not sinking hachibi before it charges one small TBB and blows jiraiya off, or Killer Bee can just resort to his humman form and negate its doton effect through his raiton affinity

the only issue is summons won't give any time at all to hacibi to fire off anything like that... i can say they cut hachibi to pieces as toads are more mobile than hachibi and use swords....
CST has nothing to do here.. it's attack radius is in all directions at the same time and is pretty fast in use as well...
huh! lets put it this way jiraya use yomi numa then summons toad at it's head... bye bye bee...
resort to human form?? needle attack ends him...

Not really, Tobirama doesnt have any method to hurt Bee once he goes full hachibi mode,
he simply fires off many TBBs as that results in his FTGs limits being succumbed, meaning that he is not evading the attacks, and is getting killed,
Tobirama also doesnt have the S/T barrier to redirect the attacks back at Bee,
and yeah the only way tobirama beats him is if he can mark killerr bee before he goes full hachibi,,
otherwise without edos, tobirama loses to him more times than not,,
like i said, i wont bother with iitachi vs jiraiya,,

it's easier to mark hachibi than bee due to it's large size and no swords play in CQC... and the issue between you and me is that you think ftg has a limited range while i think it doesn't... tobirama can throw his kunais far away and already placed markings can be used as well...

Killer Bee stands a better chance against most of the people compared to Jiraiya, his firepower is far too high to be just ignored and his speed and swords work is also very impressive,
hheck killer bee can even beat DSM Kabuto under favourable conditions,
and i agree with you on tobirama beating itachi, i dont know why you are making judgements that i think itachi would win,

yeah power... like i said... and no KB stands no chance against DSM as suigetsu was able to stall him though with advantage but kabuto has a lot more than just suigetsu... flute genjutsu ends him...

Lol What!, i always concede whenever im wrong, and im not fighting against u, i dont know where u got that from
and it also seeems that you have some personal vendetta against me, however this is just a mere argument,, i dont take it to a personal level, nor am i trying to insult you, or any other user on the base,

 

[ARGUS]

will edit it later... though i updated the list...

Dude I'm not forcing yu to do anything.
It's ur list. And everyone has a right to their opinions

 

[Oblivionx]

Dude I'm not forcing yu to do anything.
It's ur list. And everyone has a right to their opinions

good advice.....