Poll: Biggest asspull in the the manga?

[WolfHaley]

How did sasuke master amatarsu then? How did he even leaned how to control sousano?

Training? Sasuke's hobby is training, all that time in-between fighting Killer Bee and Danzo, he learned how to use his Amaterasu in conjunction with his Nature Element to control it.

As for Susano'o, it was reacting with Saske's hate, allowing him to control it at was clearly a basic level, since once he got to a full Susano'o, it took too much of a toll on his eyes and he lost it.

Kakashi isn't a hateful person. One could say strong emotion is enough, not just strong hate, but it still doesn't explain how Sasuke, with all his passion, took ages to stabilize his Susano'o and Kakashi, a non-Uchiha, did it instantly. The argument that Kakashi is a genius doesn't apply, since Kakashi with all his genius was inferior to Orochimaru's, who was inferior to Sasuke's.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

You can't just say he was training inbetween , it was stated that sasuke was recovering from his fight with itachi so how did he learn it even though he was damaged?

Kishi never shows Sasuke training but that doesn't mean he didn't.There was a lot of time passed between after the Itachi fight,the Killer Bee fight,and the Kage Summit.Plenty of time for Sasuke to gain basic mastery over his MS techniques.

 

[Loki d]

I think it's just that people don't like Obito or Kakashi. The Susanoo appears differently based off the user the CHAKRA forms into a humanoid. The user CAN SWITCH BETWEEN FORMS AT WILL. Why didn't Sasuke go Perfect Susanoo is because he was in a building, Danzo fight was running out of chakra. Kakashi gained chakra from Obito+his own that's why he able to go PS. For the other times it was not necessary for them to go PS, they were not in a bad situation or low on chakra

Obito's ashes were right there so why not. Chakra can take the form of a spirit seen as Minato did it, Chakra is in the DNA it is physical and spiritual so why not

 

[V h o]

This is past an asspull, this is a Kishi. The wireless Susanno and Madara seeing through shadow clones was another thing, but this takes the cake. Obito can come from the dead via a bond of chakra and give his DMS to Kakashi, then miraculously Kakashi/Obito has a PS. I guess Obito needed both eyes to use susanoo, but he still can just jump and skip over V1-4 all the way to a stabilized PS. I feel sorry for Itachi.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I think it's just that people don't like Obito or Kakashi. The Susanoo appears differently based off the user the CHAKRA forms into a humanoid. The user CAN SWITCH BETWEEN FORMS AT WILL. Why didn't Sasuke go Perfect Susanoo is because he was in a building, Danzo fight was running out of chakra. Kakashi gained chakra from Obito+his own that's why he able to go PS. For the other times it was not necessary for them to go PS, they were not in a bad situation or low on chakra

Obito's ashes were right there so why not. Chakra can take the form of a spirit seen as Minato did it, Chakra is in the DNA it is physical and spiritual so why not

You don't think it's a little odd how a non Uchiha could do something instantly that took two EMS using Uchiha time and training to pull off?

This isn't about disliking or liking either character.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Training? Sasuke's hobby is training, all that time in-between fighting Killer Bee and Danzo, he learned how to use his Amaterasu in conjunction with his Nature Element to control it.

As for Susano'o, it was reacting with Saske's hate, allowing him to control it at was clearly a basic level, since once he got to a full Susano'o, it took too much of a toll on his eyes and he lost it.

Kakashi isn't a hateful person. One could say strong emotion is enough, not just strong hate, but it still doesn't explain how Sasuke, with all his passion, took ages to stabilize his Susano'o and Kakashi, a non-Uchiha, did it instantly. The argument that Kakashi is a genius doesn't apply, since Kakashi with all his genius was inferior to Orochimaru's, who was inferior to Sasuke's.

Sasuke was recovering from itachi's fight , he had no time to train, and for the sousano, kakashi wanted to protect naruto and sasuke and sakura so it was reacting to his well , hate isn't factor , all it needs is stronge emotions amd kakashi had it.and btw where does it say Sasuke hobby is training?

 

[WolfHaley]

None of them were Sage of the 6 path for even a few seconds and had Kamui to top.
Obito stated OUR chakras are connected to the living world, meaning both him and Rin, their chakras form a bridge that connects them, Kamui is not needed, that's just how Obito chose to transverse to save time, as Rin told him to "Hurry up."

Hasn't chakra and powers lingered before?

Dead Minato and Kushihna left his chakra to do the "talk" or help fighting Kurama.
That's completely different than this case. The Minato and Kushina we saw in Naruto were chakra manisfestations meant to emulate them, but had no connection with them in the afterlife, as Minato couldn't recall Naruto learning Sage Mode upon arriving back to the living world, or his meeting with Naruto.
Sage Hogomoro is just floating around somehow even after his death ( beasts said he separate them before death and died). Gives chakra and powers to both Naruto and Sasuke. (How much he had initially?)

Indra and Ashura are transmigrating.
These are good points on it happening before, I'll give you that.
Dan went to visit Tsunade and gave rest of his chakra to Tusnade before disappearing again. (chakra transfer from spirit)
Once again, completely different scenario. Regardless of being alive or dead, Dan had a special technique that allowed him to control his soul. Dan visited Tsunade BEFORE he went to the afterlife, before he left the impure world. These two facts mean this can't be applied to this situation.

Gara was able to be revived by some jutsu and can also use sand now on seemingly greater level(?? but yea) without Shukaku.
Different as well, Chiyo transferred he life force into him so he can be brought back to life while she was still alive and in the impure world, she didn't cross any boundaries.
Kinkaku and ginkaku using Kurama 's chakra for it got ingrained with the contact they had for short period.
What?

It's not like first time it happened.

Susano requirements got corrected when Madara used it while blind. Unless story ends one can only speculate abilities and writers fix it as they need to.
This is one of many retcons Kishi has made to the story. While the use of retcons isn't bad, Kishi has overused them, and that's why this is no excuse. If retcons were alcohol, Naruto would be in the ICU for liver failure and severe alcohol poisoning.

Now you may not like the development or how he used his options and all that but at least stop spamming the same thread topic you guys. -_-

Responses in bold.

 

[hixa kuogame]

Because seeing a technique and doing it are two separate things,Madara had Hashi's DNA but couldn't use his techniques until after Kabuto modified his body as a Edo.

I know this. My point is that, IF you have the neccessary requirments such as Senju DNA or, in Kakashi's case, Obito's chakra and mangekyo sharingans, then he can copy and perform mangekyo sharingan techniques. There should be no reason as to why he can't.

There's a reason he only used the low leveled Mokuton techniques such as the Tree jutsu,Wood clones,Flower Tree World,Wood Dragon,and not the higher leveled ones like the Wood God or Buddha.

Low level Mokuton techniques? all the techniques you listed were top rank techniques. the only reason why he didn't use the Buddha statue was because it requires sage mode, which was the only thing Madara did not have.

Just because he has Hashi's chakra and the ability to copy his Mokuton techs doesn't mean Madara could perform them on the same level or all of them for that matter.

You're not saying anything contrary to what I'm stating.

 

[Vega]

Here's my problem with the Madara no eyes Susanoo one:
Sasuke states that Susanoo is unlocked by those who have awakened the Mangeyko in both eyes.

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Next-
Tobirama stated that after the loss of a loved one/etc. that Special Chakra sprouts inside the brain which affects the Optic Nerve; which in returns causes the Sharingan Eye to to Mangeyko. He then says the Sharingan simply "reflects those feelings."

Spoiler

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So perhaps one could say the real power of Susanoo is in those Special Chakra Sprouts/Optic Nerves. For Madara had already awakened the Mangeyko before-hand so the Optic Nerves still held those Chakra Sprouts enabling him to use Susanoo perhaps, thus staying true to those who have "awakened Mangeyko on both eyes."

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[WolfHaley]

Sasuke was recovering from itachi's fight , he had no time to train, and for the sousano, kakashi wanted to protect naruto and sasuke and sakura so it was reacting to his well , hate isn't factor , all it needs is stronge emotions amd kakashi had it.and btw where does it say Sasuke hobby is training?

1. It was one of the citings in the Databook entry for Sasuke

2. He clearly trained with his Amaterasu, as his vision was shown to have gotten even worse during his time recovering between his fight with Killer Bee and fighting Danzo. Itachi, who used his Mangekyo before its formal introduction at least a few times, didn't come close to having that level of blindness despite Sasuke's few usages of it as well. While Sasuke went on to spam his techniques, it's clear by comparison that Sasuke used his Mangekyo off-screen. Given that his hobby has been cited as training, and his skill with Amaterasu and Enton increased to Kagutsuchi, it's clear that he trained for it.

3. Sasuke also feels passion and strong emotion, Uchihas are noted for their strong emotion, but that wasn't enough for him to instantly stabilize his Susano'o, despite being a greater genius than Kakashi AND being an Uchiha.

 

[Dannie]

Yes, it definitely the biggest asspull known to man.

I don't care what anyone says from this point on. Kakashi receiving PS was completely asinine, especially considering the fact that Kakashi was one of the main characters in this manga that somewhat acted like a ninja and didn't go off the handle with overpowered explosions, like mediocre techniques (nothing too extravagant) , deceptive and creative battle styles, as opposed to everyone else who started to pull these overpowered techniques from their ass and completely ruin the main theme of "ninja".
Kishimoto completely ruined this character, which further proves my point that he is an incompetent author who lacks consistency. Kishimoto fell off the deep end and I don't think he can redeem himself after this shit that I have seen today.

Another thing that irritated me was the fact that Kakashi just literally just pissed all over the Uchiha pride and development! Madara, Sasuke and Itachi all progressed with their lineage when it comes to their blood line and then Kakashi comes in, in like fcking 2 minutes and summons a PS. Madara and Sasuke needed EMS just to achieve PS. Then suddenly Kakashi, who receives a pair of rotted MS eyes, pulls out PS. Where did the chakra come from? How can he even sustain such a huge entity when he's not blood related? What was all of Sasuke and Madaras work for?

 

[hixa kuogame]

Obito stated OUR chakras are connected to the living world, their chakras form a bridge that connects them, Kamui is not needed, that's just how Obito chose to transverse to save time, as Rin told him to "Hurry up."

No where did Obito say this. He said "Chakra is the power that connects these two worlds" meaning that chakra is still a medium in the afterworld or at least, that bridge point between the two worlds which Rin was waiting in. Obito is the only one with Kamui meaning he's the only one that could teleport to the living world.

 

[Mortune]

Sasuke states that Susanoo is unlocked by those who have awakened the Mangeyko in both eyes.

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Next-
Tobirama stated that after the loss of a loved one/etc. that Special Chakra sprouts inside the brain which affects the Optic Nerve; which in returns causes the Sharingan Eye to to Mangeyko. He then says the Sharingan simply "reflects those feelings."

Spoiler

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So perhaps one could say the real power of Susanoo is in those Special Chakra Sprouts/Optic Nerves. For Madara had already awakened the Mangeyko before-hand so the Optic Nerves still held those Chakra Sprouts enabling him to use Susanoo perhaps, thus staying true to those who have "awakened Mangeyko on both eyes."

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Okay I get it so Kishi is saying that since Kakashi and Obito had both felt tramatic loss and unlocked MS already all they had to do is try it? I would have understood if he just came out with ribs or unstabilized susanoo, but rushing the field with PS on the first try! KISHI COME ON DUDE!!

 

[Loki d]

Susanoo is CHAKRA forming into a humanoid, the user can switch modes at will. There is no training needed. Sasuke was fighting back to back if you recall plus they were S-rank ninjas. The Susanoo is chakra, the sharingan contains chakra, IT IS ALL CHAKRA

Obito's ashes were right there he wasn't dead for 5mins. Just like what Jiraiya did touching Naruto on the shoulder after death, Asuma came days after to stand next Shikamaru maybe there was chakra in the lighter, you guys are the asspulls

 

[Avani]

Responses in bold.

That's too messed up to reply as it won't even let me quote you properly.

I am not saying everything is the same. All of them are slightly different to each other. I was referring to the similarity of the recurring theme. I added what part I was referring to in Minato's example. The chakra/spirit of dead person separated but still lingering. From then on, we saw it repeatedly in different forms and adding more to.

Now one can explore how Kishi used that theme and is presenting of soul/spirit/chakra ....

[Mini rant].....or may just complain what he did with it in the recent chapter 1000th times.

My post was made because there are so many possibilities of discussion if people start discussing the actual happening instead of only complaining about character panel times. I chose your post because you at least put some effort in and I wanted to add more scope to it.

Dunno how come people do not get bored reading their own same post over and over... but then we have FGers with 1000000000 posts and counting. >_>[/Mini rant]


Edit: GARA: I was not talking about Chhiyo even remotely but him being able to use sand on such a big scale as if he was still a jinchuriki. That once he had the ability he didn't lose it even after death and retained it without shukaku. And I remember the previous Hokage could use iron sand and Gold sand so perhaps shukaku only augmented on it. Still that was some huge chakra Gara used back then.

I remember the part about his mother protecting him but she couldn't help him during akatsuki attack. Yea there was a chaos back then over this issue too.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Kishi never shows Sasuke training but that doesn't mean he didn't.There was a lot of time passed between after the Itachi fight,the Killer Bee fight,and the Kage Summit.Plenty of time for Sasuke to gain basic mastery over his MS techniques.

Actually kishi, showed us sasuke training plenty of times like when he defeated thoese shit loads of ninjas or when he went inside the chamber on orochimarus hideout, also we saw team hebi alot early in part 2 like when they went to the hot spring's, but we never saw sasuke or training why? Like I said before Yoi can't say a character did something off-screen , kishi would've hinted it like he did with shikamaru perp, also kakashi said he train on kamui which mean when character does something kishi hints it , so there is nothing such as off-screen training

 

[Loki d]

No where did Obito say this. He said "Chakra is the power that connects these two worlds" meaning that chakra is still a medium in the afterworld or at least, that bridge point between the two worlds which Rin was waiting in. Obito is the only one with Kamui meaning he's the only one that could teleport to the living world.

No he is not the only. It's not teleporting exactly it's more complex. Chakra connects both worlds that is how EDO TENSEI is POSSIBLE getting a persons DNA that contain their chakra, there are many cases. It happened many times different situations

 

[Vega]

Okay I get it so Kishi is saying that since Kakashi and Obito had both felt tramatic loss and unlocked MS already all they had to do is try it? I would have understood if he just came out with ribs or unstabilized susanoo, but rushing the field with PS on the first try! KISHI COME ON DUDE!!

Not exactly, those were my thoughts on Madara using Susanoo without the eyes. That doesn't exactly work in Kakashi's case though, since feeling the traumatic loss wouldn't affect him the same way it did to Obito granted the latter is an Uchiha. If the power lies in the Optic Nerves, then the only way Kakashi could get Susanoo would be if the usage of the Mangeyko eyes back-tracks the chakra affecting the nerve; and producing the same effect a pure-blooded Uchiha would have. To say that is a big assumption though, so it fits an asspull.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

1. It was one of the citings in the Databook entry for Sasuke

2. He clearly trained with his Amaterasu, as his vision was shown to have gotten even worse during his time recovering between his fight with Killer Bee and fighting Danzo. Itachi, who used his Mangekyo before its formal introduction at least a few times, didn't come close to having that level of blindness despite Sasuke's few usages of it as well. While Sasuke went on to spam his techniques, it's clear by comparison that Sasuke used his Mangekyo off-screen. Given that his hobby has been cited as training, and his skill with Amaterasu and Enton increased to Kagutsuchi, it's clear that he trained for it.

3. Sasuke also feels passion and strong emotion, Uchihas are noted for their strong emotion, but that wasn't enough for him to instantly stabilize his Susano'o, despite being a greater genius than Kakashi AND being an Uchiha.

I am talking about the time period between itachi's fight and killer b's fight but you talking about afterwards when ge was about to fight danzou, like I said we saw team hebi alot of Times in early part 2but yet we didn't sasuke training even once after he defeated oro

 

[hixa kuogame]

No he is not the only. It's not teleporting exactly it's more complex. Chakra connects both worlds that is how EDO TENSEI is POSSIBLE getting a persons DNA that contain their chakra, there are many cases. It happened many times different situations

That proves my point even further. You cannot just climb back into the living world unless there is a specific jutsu or technique giving such dictation, such as rinne tensei, edo tensei, or a S/T technique that has the literal capabilities to shift between dimensions.

You're basically telling me that someone can just come back to the living world briefly and spiritually and do as they'd like. By that logic why would Obito even use kamui?