Re: [DEBATE] KCM Naruto (Kidgamer65 & Evani) vs EMS Sasuke (Unorthodox & RustledJimmi
Everything that isn't replied to is stuff that we agreed on.
Rasengan
It's safe to say that no Rasengan variant except CORS would get past Susano'o, supported by the fact that Chōōdama Rasengan, the strongest non Rasenshuriken Rasengan variant, was already tanked by a ribcage Susano'o [ X ].
Lol. I'm 100% sure Evani already handled this part of unorthodox's post. Ribcage Susanoo has never tanked Cho Oodama Rasengan in this manga. Not once, not ever. As you can see in the scan, the Rasengan hit him, and his Ribcage started to shred away, the
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meaning the Rasengan never exploded on him, meaning that it never tanked it. In fact the shredding simply means the impact from the Rasengan alone was damaging Susanoo let alone the explosion, which once again, never occurred.
Danzo's Fuuton tore a hole in V3 Susanoo's back. FRS does
at least that much damage to it, it most likely heavily damages it. 2 FRS would destroy a V3 Susanoo and kill Sasuke. 1 Cho Oodama FRS would wreck Susanoo, 3-4 FRS would bust open V4 and kill Sasuke.
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Rasenshuriken variants are the only variants Sasuke needs to worry about here, which can be countered by Enton, as it canonically consumed FRS here and here , further evidence that it was consumed, was the fact that the "explosion effect" of Rasenshuriken was completely absent, or rather, it did absolutely nothing besides spread Sasuke's Enton as shown here and here , with that said, Sasuke can choose to either extinguish the flames or tank it, and yes, he would be able to as he has already shown that he can hold the flames without burning himself, choosing the latter choice would only help him in spreading his flames throughout the battlefield to heat up the atmosphere and use Kirin :
As Evani already stated, an equal or greater Enton is needed to completely consume FRS. Nothing but an Enton Arrow is countering COFRS, anything less is simply rendered ineffective and it explodes and kills Sasuke anyway.
Not to mention Naruto can use guided FRS via his chakra arms, so hitting him won't be an issue. The chakra arm simply
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it around the incoming Enton blast, to the
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of his Susanoo.
Finishing Naruto off
Unlike popular belief, Amaterasu can indeed hit Naruto (even though he is that fast), as you can see here , Naruto says "But I'm starting to be able to sense him!", note that he says "I'm STARTING to be able to sense him!", implying that he couldn't do it before, which means that Obito is faster than Naruto (Naruto couldn't react to him, even though one's reaction is always faster than their foot speed), in that same scan you can see that Sasuke is following Obito with his EMS, implying that his Sharingan precog improved since his fight with Ay, the latter being too fast for Sasuke's sharingan to follow at the time. As seen here Amaterasu follows the user's eyesight, so if he could follow someone who was faster than Naruto (as I already proved), there's no doubt he would be able to follow Naruto's speed, and thus he would be able to strike Naruto with Amaterasu and he would be burned alive. And no, Naruto's cloak doesn't protect him from Amaterasu, as Naruto was burned by Roshi's Lava here and here .
Completely wrong. Yes, Sasuke's eye can track Juubito's flight speed, does that mean he can hit anyone slower with Amaterasu? No. Amaterasu converges at the spot where the user's eyesight is. If Naruto Shunshins to Sasuke's rear as Amaterasu converges, just how Ay did it, it won't matter if the Sharingan can follow him, cause he'd be evading the actual jutsu itself. Not to mention Sasuke can't turn his head faster than Naruto can flash Shunshin to his backside, meaning he can't hit him with Amaterasu if he can't see him.
Basically Sasuke's precog being better won't change how fast the jutsu spawns, which isn't instantaneous, its slower than Ay. Tracking wasn't even the main reason Ay evaded Amaterasu, its because the jutsu formed too slow to hit him. Naruto evades it with ease.
Naruto can
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as well as negative emotions. He'd be able to act before Amaterasu ever landed. Naruto can clone feint Amaterasu too.
Ma and Pa can be summoned as well and synced to a clone for a continuous Sage Mode. Ma and Pa have their
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which is filled with chakra so the Sharingan can't see through it, to block Sasuke's vision allowing Naruto to easily flash Shunshin to his rear and slam a Rasen Shuriken into his Susanoo, which will cause heavy damage to any version that isn't V4.
Also, Kabuto could be tracked by Sasuke, yet he still evaded his arrow. Proof that tracking doesn't mean you'll always hit the target.
Naruto has too many counters. Lets not start "Amaterasu GG" here. Please..Lol
What made you come to the conclusion that he stopped his attack ?
He didn't, not before Enton appeared, so its irrelevant.
What the hell ? He would track every single one of their moves but wouldn't be able to react ? Please, explain this.
He'd be able to react, mentally at the very least, but it doesn't mean that he can hit them because he can track them. His moves still have to be fast enough to actually hit Naruto, if they aren't, he evades them.
So ? Sasuke could follow Juubito's movements, who outsped BSM Naruto's reactions, which is faster than his own footspeed, so do you mind explaining how the clones' speed is gonna be a problem to Sasuke here ?
-He can still evade the majority of Sasuke's attacks.
-He can still land his attacks on Sasuke much quicker.
-And his speed can't be tracked if he's not in Sasuke's LoS or if Sasuke can't see him. That's where dust cloud, or Shunshin'ing to Sasuke's rear come into play, since Naruto still moves much faster than Sasuke does.
Madara stated that only he could tell the difference between Hashirama's Bunshins with hiseye techniques (Dojutsu), who else had EMS in his time ? Now who has EMS in this battle ? Madara stated that both of them have the same Choku Tomoe [X], so, do you mind giving me a reason why Sasuke wouldn't be able to replicate this feat ?
Yeah...no. Madara and Hashirama clashed many times, most of those times he had the MS, not the EMS. The only times they clashed where he had EMS is VoTE, and when he first got it. Madara was able to see through clones simply because his eyes were special, and because of how often he fought Hashirama. Stands to reason he could see through them most of the time they were enemies, meaning he could see through clones with just his Sharingan.
Sasuke, just like Obito, Kakashi, and Sakura, all have the
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above their heads when they see "Naruto" get killed by Kaguya. If he can see through clones, there is no reason to be surprised. If he could see through clones, it would have been noted somewhere, just like the rest of his abilities.
We don't know the exact reason Madara was able to see through clones, don't give his feats to Sasuke.
Rasenshuriken also travels in a straight line, I don't see your point here. Even Pain dodged Rasenshuriken.
Madara was distracted by Mei's Lava.
When its thrown it does, but as shown above Naruto can use chakra arms to guide it, and he can use more than one a time with the use of clones.
Sasuke can surround himself with Enton, if clones try to use FRS variants, they get consumed as soon as they come in contact with the flames.
1. That amount of flame would cut it for a normal FRS, but anything
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or
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big requires more. Otherwise it'll simply go through the Enton and hit Sasuke's Susanoo.
2. Naruto can fire it from above. So that kind of shield won't cut it.
3. Naruto can fire
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at a time via clones. From above.
Aoda doesn't need to face Naruto's summons, Sasuke easily gets rid of the summons with Amaterasu.
The summoner needs to summon above the target to use Food Cart Destroyer, if Naruto jumps above Sasuke, he will be vulnerable to take Amaterasu, Also, I would like to hear you explain how a Toad would survive using food cart destroyer on a Susano'o covered with Enton.
Forget about FCD, though Aoda is useless here. FRS would casually kill it.
False, Enton didn't completely consume FRS, yet Rasenshuriken's "exploding effect" was completely nullified [X][X], in fact, it only helped Sasuke in spreading Enton, which would allow him to quickly heat up the atmosphere and use Kirin, thus ending the match.
How is this even a counter?
1. An equal one creates what you posted. The wind is used to fuel the flame and the Rasengan remains in tact allowing the flame to explode. Proof that it is equal?
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Not to mention that wasn't even a normal sized FRS. [
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]
2. A weaker one than equal isn't going to consume FRS.
It took a mini forest full of Amaterasu and two dragon flame bombs to the sky to prep Kirin. Sasuke isn't surviving long enough to do that, nor will Naruto let him.
I already proved that Sasuke can see the color of Chakra, which means he would be able to see Naruto and his Chakra arms coming from the ground, allowing Sasuke to escape with his hawk.
Once again, how is this a counter? Evani stated that Naruto can use the Dust Cloud to prevent Sasuke from seeing him. The Dust Cloud is Ninjutsu, made with chakra, meaning if he tries to see through it, he'll only end up seeing the Dust Cloud and he won't be able to see the chakra arms coming to get him. He can see the color of chakra, but he has to see the chakra first to be able to see its color, obviously. Lol.
How Naruto beats Sasuke
-Amaterasu has been countered above.
-Any projectile such as Susanoo arrows, Enton Magatama, are rendered useless since Naruto can evade them or feint out with a clone.
-Summonings are fodder for FRS or a SM clones enhanced strength.
-Genjutsu is pointless since Naruto has Kurama to snap him out of it.
The only issue is getting past Enton and landing FRS (Or other attacks) on Sasuke, and even that isn't really that big of an issue. Naruto has guided chakra arms,
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, who can all use his jutsu like FRS, and
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Naruto couldn't use Bijuu Rasengan before as he hadn't gotten the chakra ratio down for the Bijuu Dama yet, but later its shown
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, but
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. So there is no reason why he can't use Bijuu Rasengan at this point, which is hyped to be stronger than a KCM FRS since he tanked it, but Naruto was ready to use this to injure him. So it'd obliterate a V3 Susanoo, the same Susanoo that was opened up by Danzo's enhanced Fuuton. Clones can use this (as that was a clone) and they can all combine it with Flash Shunshin, Sasuke may be able to track them, but he won't be able to swipe the clones that attack all at the same time. (2 or 3 at a time, don't try to say that I'm implying all 14 clones will use these attacks at the same time)
The SM Naruto clone with Ma and Pa can even use
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to paralyze Sasuke while three clones slam a Rasen Shuriken onto his Susanoo, which is GG no re. The SM Naruto clone can even stay in the background while the original and the clones keep Sasuke busy, allowing him to charge up Chou Oodama FRS (The largest one) and completely nuke Sasuke's Susanoo into oblivion while the real Naruto Shunshin's away.
If it ever lands, which it won't.
You guys say this, but Sasuke has to prep the arrow before he can fire it, and he's only shown to fire one at a time. Naruto has clones, so he can fire 2 Chou FRS at a time. How will Sasuke counter both? He hits one but the other one kills him. This doesn't even include 2 other clones that could be behind the Susanoo, hitting him with Bijuu Rasengan (stronger than FRS) or just a normal FRS.
