[Discussion] "It will break the Monster Trio"

[WolfHaley]

Every time there is a thread about who will join the Strawhats and a character like Jimbei comes up, people say they won't join yet because they are stronger than a member of the Monster Trio.
"They're stronger than Zoro tho"
"Sanji can't beat them"

But why does this matter? When has Oda showed any care for preserving the ranking of Monster Trio? The Monster Trio thing was made prominent in two arcs, Thriller Bark where Nami called them the monster trio half-assedly and Enies Lobby with the CP9's ranking. However, I don't think this ranking is important to Oda.

I think the ranking system and Monster Trio ranking were introduced simply to be abolished and serve a pivotal point in the story. An example of what I'm talking about comes from a huge inspiration of Oda's, Dragon Ball Z. The only reason power levels, a ranking system, was established in the first place was to show how meaningless it was and to serve a plot point of having the villains take them too seriously and underestimate, leading to their downfall. I think the Monster Trio ranking serves a similar purpose for two main reasons.

The first is the arcs that the rankings are introduced in, Enies Lobby, and something that happened in the arcs. The first arc, Thriller Bark, it took the efforts of the entire crew to bring down the main villain. Secondly, in the arc the ranking was "made official", Sanji says something very interesting to Usopp. He tells him that there are things he can do, and Usopp can't, and there are things Usopp can do, but he can't. It's made clear in this arc that the Strawhats will do whatever they are capable of, and if they slack somewhere, someone else who is strong in that area will take it up. Whatever you're weak at, that's someone else's strength, whatever you're strong at, that's someone else's weakness. The Strawhats work as a machine, each part doing its job for the whole to survive. So a ranking system would make no sense, it doesn't matter what order the Strawhats are listed in in strength because they all have a weakness that someone else will be the strength for. The ranking serves but one purpose: To emphasize that. Just like how power levels in Dragon Ball Z were introduced just to become useless, the ranking of the Monster Trio was introduced just to be useless.

The second reason is who has been fighting who after the timeskip. In Punk Hazard, Sanji took on Vergo, who was stronger than Monet, who Zoro fought. While Law ultimately ended up being the one to defeat Vergo and not Sanji, this was the first hint to Oda throwing away the Luffy takes best villain-Zoro takes second best-Sanji takes third system. In fact, Law defeating Vergo is in of itself a hint to Oda breaking this system, as Vergo was arguable the strongest antagonist on Punk Hazard, and Luffy didn't face this villain but instead faced the second strongest. On Dressrosa, the same has happened. Sanji confronted the strongest villain, while Zoro was running around Dressrosa. Now Zoro is taking on Doffy's strongest executive, while Sanji is left to confront a Yonko, and it's looking like Luffy will need help against the final villain of his arc, and that he's getting it whether he likes it or not. My guess is, as the series goes on, the system will continue to be broken and not take place because it was only invented to develop the plot point that a ranking doesn't matter since everyone has their role.

In short, the ranking of Luffy>Zoro>Sanji>rest of Strawhats does not matter anymore, nor will it matter again. It can be broken by interjecting someone between Luffy and Zoro, or between Zoro and Sanji. As long as Luffy is number one, it doesn't matter who is second, third, fourth and so on.

 

[Red Swag]

zoro being the 2nd strongest matters. hes the first mate. the rest dont.

 

[WolfHaley]

zoro being the 2nd strongest matters. hes the first mate. the rest dont.

The first mate doesn't have to be the second strongest. Not only that, but the first mate is whoever will take over for the captain if he is unable to do something about the current situation and give orders to the crew, something Sanji and Nami have done.

 

[Tobiramas]

Jinbe is weaker than Zoro anyway

 

[Love Cook]

Jinbe is weaker than Zoro anyway

I don't think that was the point of this thread.

On-topic:

I think this is an interesting way to approach this, because you could be right that the M3 is something that the fanbase eventually ran away with after Oda named them once like that in an arc from five years ago.

There is no evidence that it's as set in stone as many people would like to believe here.

Especially in the second half of the NW I expect soooo much names who could interfere with that ranking. There are still three yonkou and their crew, Dragon, WG and a new admiral and Schishibukai and 9 supernova's to go and new ones like Barto and Cavendish.

The classic Luffy fights the boss, Zoro nr.2 and Sanji nr.3 also hasn't been done since Thriller Bark, so I think you're right on this. because once could be a coincidence, but if it happens 3 arcs in a row it's not a coincidence anymore. Doesn't mean the hierarchy has changed for now. But I can see people like Jimbei disturbing that ranking.

And before all speculation if he's stronger than Luffy, Zoro or Sanji, there is no evidence for any of that so save that discussion for when he pops up again and shows some more.

 

[U mAd]

first of all jinbei>zoro too.but no reason he cant join cause if luffy's gonna become pirate king he'll need one more in the M3 league to make in M4. her's how its gonna be.
1.luffy vs fleet admiral(akainu)
2.zoro vs1st admiral(fujitora but i prefer someone stronger become admiral and fight zoro)
3.sanji vs 2nd admiral(kizaru)
4.jinbei or next crewmate who'll be as strong as M3 to fight the 3rd admiral.(green bull)

 

[YellowFang]

Absolutely, M3 is not a solid concept in OP... It was just for the arc where multiple enemies of close power levels were met, so each of the M3 fought their most suited combatant...

Because I firmly believe that Luffy and Sanji would have a harder time against a swordsman that Zoro could handle relatively easier... and vice-versa...

Mugiwaras are open for any new crew member, it won't effect the chemistry of crew whatsoever... They are all there with their specific purposes...

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

zoro being the 2nd strongest matters. hes the first mate. the rest dont.

1. Strawhats don't have a first mate. Other than the self appointed Ussop.

2. All Strawhats matter.



OT: Except like DBZ, we consistently see the same people have legit fights whole everyone else looks like a joke in comparison.


Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy basically will always get a good fight.

Luffy vs Doflamingo

Zoro vs Pica

Sanji vs Tamago


Everyone else just depends. Punk Hazard is also the first time the strongest antagonist wasn't running the show. Because Joker serves Caesar, who sends over people. Regardless, look what happens.


Luffy vs a Gas Logia who becomes a poison gas Logia.

Zoro vs a Snow Logia even though she was leagues below him.

Sanji vs Vergo who outclassed him, but the latter still managed to actually injure Vergo


Who else got a fight that arc?! Franky. Because he happened to be outside when 5 and Buffalo arrive.


Even when they don't have equals, they still get the fights. Which shows Oda attributes a value to their rank as number 1,2, and 3. At the very least as of now. If Jinbei joined and bumped Zoro and/or Sanji down one spot, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference because all four basically exist as the upper echelon, and will definitely receive fights.

I don't think that was the point of this thread.

On-topic:

I think this is an interesting way to approach this, because you could be right that the M3 is something that the fanbase eventually ran away with after Oda named them once like that in an arc from five years ago.

There is no evidence that it's as set in stone as many people would like to believe here.

Especially in the second half of the NW I expect soooo much names who could interfere with that ranking. There are still three yonkou and their crew, Dragon, WG and a new admiral and Schishibukai and 9 supernova's to go and new ones like Barto and Cavendish.

The classic Luffy fights the boss, Zoro nr.2 and Sanji nr.3 also hasn't been done since Thriller Bark, so I think you're right on this. because once could be a coincidence, but if it happens 3 arcs in a row it's not a coincidence anymore. Doesn't mean the hierarchy has changed for now. But I can see people like Jimbei disturbing that ranking.

And before all speculation if he's stronger than Luffy, Zoro or Sanji, there is no evidence for any of that so save that discussion for when he pops up again and shows some more.

Not to mention how on Skypia Nami alloted Robin in with Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji...but given how Oda keeps going with her that group up makes no sense.

 

[Tobiramas]

I don't think that was the point of this thread.

I know, the point was to say that as a first mate, everyone who will join the crew would be as well below Luffy as they would be below him

 

[Love Cook]

I know, the point was to say that as a first mate, everyone who will join the crew would be as well below Luffy as they would be below him

First of all he isn't the first mate, and if he was what does rank have anything to do with it ?

Why would there be a line between Luffy and Zoro and the rest ? If Jimbei joins he has a good chance of coming in between Luffy and Zoro.

It all depends on who would join. You can't say in advance that Luffy's and Zoro's position are set in stone.

 

[sravan]

i personally don't mind any strong fighter joining the SHs and breaks M3.I think the crew needs strong fighters in future to survive.But M3 will always be special for me.I think Bartholomew,jimbei,kuzan should join SH's soon

 

[narutorikudoumode]

Wondering were Jinbei will be ranked will be a discussion when he arrives and shows us his battle prowess. Who knows how stronger he's gotten over the two year time period, I doubt he just sat around and did nothing while the strawhats trained endlessly for those two years. And even though we have seen only a glimpse of his power on fishman island we can't say for sure were he would ranked as some people say. If I remember correctly he was linked with Sanji that arc. But back to the topic, There's no ranking right now but something should be obvious to the reader, Luffy will most likely take on the strongest fighter during an Arc and Zoro and Sanji will take on the second and third strongest. One of the only reasons why this hasn't been happening for the latest arcs is because of the characters, more specifically their allies such as Law and Jinbei. So if you would take those two out of the equation then it would be back to normal. Like other mangakas Oda has a pattern himself, don't be so sure that Oda will break from his pattern so quickly unless he has an ulterior motive for it.

 

[Fireplay]

Jinbe will join after M3 surpasses him or he'll die before he gets to join.

 

[WolfHaley]

1. Strawhats don't have a first mate. Other than the self appointed Ussop.

2. All Strawhats matter.



OT: Except like DBZ, we consistently see the same people have legit fights whole everyone else looks like a joke in comparison.


Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy basically will always get a good fight.

Luffy vs Doflamingo

Zoro vs Pica

Sanji vs Tamago


Everyone else just depends. Punk Hazard is also the first time the strongest antagonist wasn't running the show. Because Joker serves Caesar, who sends over people. Regardless, look what happens.


Luffy vs a Gas Logia who becomes a poison gas Logia.

Zoro vs a Snow Logia even though she was leagues below him.

Sanji vs Vergo who outclassed him, but the latter still managed to actually injure Vergo


Who else got a fight that arc?! Franky. Because he happened to be outside when 5 and Buffalo arrive.


Even when they don't have equals, they still get the fights. Which shows Oda attributes a value to their rank as number 1,2, and 3. At the very least as of now. If Jinbei joined and bumped Zoro and/or Sanji down one spot, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference because all four basically exist as the upper echelon, and will definitely receive fights.



Not to mention how on Skypia Nami alloted Robin in with Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji...but given how Oda keeps going with her that group up makes no sense.

Wondering were Jinbei will be ranked will be a discussion when he arrives and shows us his battle prowess. Who knows how stronger he's gotten over the two year time period, I doubt he just sat around and did nothing while the strawhats trained endlessly for those two years. And even though we have seen only a glimpse of his power on fishman island we can't say for sure were he would ranked as some people say. If I remember correctly he was linked with Sanji that arc. But back to the topic, There's no ranking right now but something should be obvious to the reader, Luffy will most likely take on the strongest fighter during an Arc and Zoro and Sanji will take on the second and third strongest. One of the only reasons why this hasn't been happening for the latest arcs is because of the characters, more specifically their allies such as Law and Jinbei. So if you would take those two out of the equation then it would be back to normal. Like other mangakas Oda has a pattern himself, don't be so sure that Oda will break from his pattern so quickly unless he has an ulterior motive for it.

It's like you didn't even read.

You say they get legit good fights, here's the thing, Vergo vs Sanji was not a legit fight like Sanji has had before, seeing as how Vergo outclassed him. Zoro vs Monet wasn't a legit fight like Zoro has had before because he curbstomped Monet, Tashigi even contributed to the fight as well, so it was 2 vs 1. You say Oda won't break the pattern unless he has an ulterior motive, Oda HAS broken the pattern though, three arcs in a row, and the ulterior motive is to stress that a ranking in the Strawhats don't matter because they work together as a machine.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

There has never been direct confirmation from Oda that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will always be the M3. All he confirmed was that Chopper, Nami and Usopp will always be the W3 and that Usopp will always be the weakest SH.

Its like people can't notice the reason Oda had Jimbei delay his recruitment. Its to give the "M3" time to surpass him before he joins.

 

[U mAd]

i personally don't mind any strong fighter joining the SHs and breaks M3.I think the crew needs strong fighters in future to survive.But M3 will always be special for me.I think Bartholomew,jimbei,kuzan should join SH's soon

......

 

[WolfHaley]

There has never been direct confirmation from Oda that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will always be the M3. All he confirmed was that Chopper, Nami and Usopp will always be the W3 and that Usopp will always be the weakest SH.

Its like people can't notice the reason Oda had Jimbei delay his recruitment. Its to give the "M3" time to surpass him before he joins.

That's what I'm talking about, why is it essential for Luffy, Zoro and Sanji to surpass him before he joins? People who say this are missing the entire point.

 

[narutorikudoumode]

It's like you didn't even read.

You say they get legit good fights, here's the thing, Vergo vs Sanji was not a legit fight like Sanji has had before, seeing as how Vergo outclassed him. Zoro vs Monet wasn't a legit fight like Zoro has had before because he curbstomped Monet, Tashigi even contributed to the fight as well, so it was 2 vs 1. You say Oda won't break the pattern unless he has an ulterior motive, Oda HAS broken the pattern though, three arcs in a row, and the ulterior motive is to stress that a ranking in the Strawhats don't matter because they work together as a machine.

Did you notice what I said before you replied? Lol, I said I quote, "There are no rankings right now", I even said that the normal rankings haven't been parallel to the other arcs since the latest ones. Once again I said that one of the main reasons why the rankings have been somewhat scattered is because of the characters, preferably Laws(Punk Hazard and Dressrosa) and Jinbei(Fishman Island) but I almost forgot to name Smoker, Tashigi,the marines, and the Revs who have/had the same enemies as the straw hats, so of course there will be different rankings, there are more enemies.

Most fights that we have seen so far have only been scuffles, we haven't seen any serious fights out of the straw hats since the time skip, unless you call Fishmen Island arcs fights serious(Not including Luffy)? And when I say Ulterior motive, I'm saying that Oda is introducing characters, The Revs, Alliance, and Marines, to show how much they have grown so far since the time skip and also to tell us where exactly they may rank next to the straw hats.

Didn't read? lol you just didn't understand what I was saying..

 

[Vandenre1ch]

That's what I'm talking about, why is it essential for Luffy, Zoro and Sanji to surpass him before he joins? People who say this are missing the entire point.

Your missing some points as well. Oda has already confirmed Chopper, Nami and Usopp as the W3 and said that they'll always be the W3. This was after Chopper, Nami and Usopp were referred to as the W3. Thought not directly confirned yet, is it too far fetched to think that the M3, Luffy Zoro and Sanji, will always the the top 3 SHs? You know, since they have been portrayed as the top 3 SHs since the beginning of One Piece? Jimbei, a man who was equal to Luffy as of Fishman Island, delaying his recruitment supports that. Jimbei fits all of the SH criterias perfectly and completely follows the SH recruitment pattern so he'll definately be a SH.

I just noticed something, most of the people who goes against the M3 thing usually wants people like Kuzan or Sabo to join. Your all thinking in present tense. If someone joins the SHs, the M3 has to be stronger than them. Theres no evidence or hints in the manga that goes against that.

 

[Fireplay]

Your missing some points as well. Oda has already confirmed Chopper, Nami and Usopp as the W3 and said that they'll always be the W3. This was after Chopper, Nami and Usopp were referred to as the W3. Thought not directly confirned yet, is it too far fetched to think that the M3, Luffy Zoro and Sanji, will always the the top 3 SHs? You know, since they have been portrayed as the top 3 SHs since the beginning of One Piece? Jimbei, a man who was equal to Luffy as of Fishman Island, delaying his recruitment supports that. Jimbei fits all of the SH criterias perfectly and completely follows the SH recruitment pattern so he'll definately be a SH.

I just noticed something, most of the people who goes against the M3 thing usually wants people like Kuzan or Sabo to join. Your all thinking in present tense. If someone joins the SHs, the M3 has to be stronger than them. Theres no evidence or hints in the manga that goes against that.

Preach mah negga preach!