~So let me try to understand this character Naruto Uzumaki~
- Thread starter Dannie
- Start date
- Status
Anyone who follows Self is selfish. Isn't this what Naruto does? Why did he forgive Obito, when he had killed Uchiha Clan as well, and countless other shinobis? Who gives him the right to decide for everyone?
Shadow Phantasm
Active member
Naruto only cares how he feels, and how he feels determines the words that he says despite what the other person has done in his life. Obito could kill Sakura and Hinata and he would still be regarded as "the coolest" because after all, it just takes a normal phrase of "I wanted to become Hokage". Once those words are spoken, criminal or no, you are deemed cool in Naruto's heart. That's how he's selfish.
Wait a second. Where in the hell did you get that Naruto forgiving Obito = everyone forgives Obito? Naruto is free to forgive whoever he wants as he can only forgive obito for the wrongs obito did to Naruto and that's all he's doing.
Selfish is absolutely not just following self, selfish is valuing yourself above others, and that's obviously not what Naruto is doing when he forgives.
I am just baffled at how either utterly delusional people who say this stuff are, or how completely agenda ridden one would have to be to assert something like this as true.
Do you literally believe that had Obito continued with the infinite tsukuyomi plan, and simply muttered the phrase "I wanted to become hokage" that Naruto would have said "he was the coolest"?
To anyone reading the manga with even the slightest shred of objectivity, it's completely obvious that Naruto is referring to the reformed Obito as 'the coolest', the same obito who was ready to sacrifice his life to revive all the people in the war, the same obito who willingly died for naruto with a smile. That's the obito that naruto thought was the coolest, and that Obito would obviously never kill Sakura or Hinata. Naruto being able to not hold grudges for someone's past and evaluate them for the person they are in the here and now shows immeasurable maturity, as getting mad or holding grudges doesn't do anything to help naruto.
Last edited:
Really, that much was evident when Naruto and his moronic father stopped Sasuke and Kakashi from killing him. That is selfish. No one bothered to speak out as they were indebted to Naruto.
I am not talking about self, but Self. Not a single person in this manga is selfless as they all follow their own ideologies.
Uchihajin Sasuke
Active member
How in the world is that selfish? Naruto and Minato stopped Kakashi from killing Obito in no way shape or form means that justice would not be served, Naruto even told Obito that he should give up and pay for his crimes normally. Selfish is letting your emotions run wild and killing someone before they are properly tried.
That's absolutely a misuse of the word "selfless". Selfless has nothing to do with whether you follow your own ideologies or not, since it could be someone's own ideology to be selfess, yet that would lead to a logical contradiction. If you mean 'selfless' as in literally having zero value for yourself, then sure you can accuse Naruto of that, but that's not much of an accusation.
However not being selfless in no way shape or form means one is selfish as selfish by definition is:
1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
And naruto's entire motives are for others, it doesn't matter what he has to personally sacrifice in order to do so.
So you just automatically assumed it would be, even after Naruto's gushing sentiments? Whatever you say man. Also, that is not what selfish means, no offense, even in this context.
Don't throw dictionary meanings pointlessly in my face, as it has purely ascetic connotations. Naruto idealizing a political seat alone disqualifies him from being Selfless.
Natsu Shazneel
Banned
Awards
And I am absolutely baffled at the amount of stupidity that comes out of every single one of your posts.
You are trying to use an example of "if Obito was still bad and carried through with his plans" to try and guilt me, but at the end of it all, he still should not be admired for the things that people have been saying for the past 19 pages.
Don't be delusional. This Obito. That Obito. Present Obito. Past Obito. It is trash. Obito is still the same goddamn person so I really don't care "which Obito" he was referring to. He still killed Neji regardless if he wants to become Hokage or not. he still summoned the Kyubi regardless if he wanted to become Hokage or not. He still formed the Akatsuki regardless if he wanted to become Hokage or not. He still started a war and killed countless people regardless if he wanted to become Hokage or not, so I'm not really seeing your insignificant opinion here.
Naruto admires the Obito who wanted to become Hokage? Ok, well if you want to use that stupid argument, then how does he STILL admire someone after all the things I have just said. Surely if Naruto had any respect for himself and other people, he would not be admiring someone who caused him pain just because of a title of Hokage, but no, I guess since Naruto shares the same dream as this criminal then it's all ok, said and done.
So yeah, you can spare me the irrelevant juncture because at the end of the day, he is still talking to the same person, despite which version you are trying to muster, it is still Obito, and what Obito did is despicable, and the fact that Naruto can admire and cling onto his wishes makes him even more delusional and selfish. But I guess I can't really blame him entirely. He did get his pathetic morals from his father.
Last edited:
why is the bolded true?
Well that's your problem. Naruto obviously is not evaluating Obito in the same way you are, he can separate the current Obito from the one who committed all of those acts of atrocity. Naruto shouldn't be blamed for your own inability to grasp that, or to understand that people change.
For the millionth time, Naruto admires the current Obito who obviously would not have done all those things if given the opportunity to do them. So none of what you typed is even relevant as the Obito naruto admired obviously isn't the same one that did all that stuff.
Well then that's completely your problem. Your own inability to recognize or acknowledge that people do change over time and that although the person who died before Naruto is called 'Obito' he's a completely different person from the one who fell into darkness and wanted to destroy reality. No one is arguing what Obito did wasn't despicable, however it's obvious that he's changed, and the person that he has changed into, someone who'd willing give his life for the shinobi alliance and naruto is very admirable.
So no, just because you believe that despite all Obito has done, that he's still the same murderous psychopath despite the manga and everything showing otherwise doesn't in anyway imply that Naruto is selfish for thinking the new Obito is admirable.
Uchihajin Sasuke
Active member
Naruto sucks... it baffles me that kishi made a pathetic excuse of a main character. He is more like a sidekick to Sasuke in every aspect.
Natsu Shazneel
Banned
Awards
+1 rep. Agree with everything you said. What people also seem to forget is that having a main character like Naruto acknowledge a character like Obito, is a way to show his importance as a character to the manga itself. Obito has done all the worst crimes in the world but he changed in a sense that he saved his comrades by sacrificing himself.
All his life he was used and manipulated by people close to him. He deserved to leave this way, he deserved to be acknowledged this way. Why? Because he changed from a bad being he was!
Its easy to say I will change yet not easy to show it. That is a big step that people seem to underestimate in this certain context. Naruto is capable of reading hearts, he is able to sense evil within those hearts. When Obito was dying he was not dying because he was evil. He was dying by a pure of heart. Hence why Naruto went the lengths he did to call him the coolest or awesome.
I think the real message that Kishi is trying to show here is that, You could be the worst criminal on earth. Yet once you realize your mistakes there is always a chance for you to change. By making a difference and showing that you want to change is the only way to make up for the crimes you did. Now if we were to go by what most people here are saying, that are against Obito. Should we just end up killing our selves if we commit a similar mistake? Should we just say we can never be a greater being anymore since we killed so many people? The key question here is would you not want to be forgiven for all your sins if you whole heartedly wanted to change? Its easier to sit there and make a judgement on someone over there past mistakes. Yet when that judgement comes on you, you will be begging for mercy in a fear of guilt. I do not agree with what Obito did in the past, I just admire that he was willing to change when the time came to make a difference. Doing that after all you did, is a huge step for any character.
Last edited:
I'm not assuming anything, Naruto literally told Obito that he should accept his punishment:
You must be registered for see links
Kakashi reitterated that statement:
You must be registered for see links
Also, I believe it's YOU who's just assuming that because Minato and Naruto didn't want a defeated Obito to die right there and then, that both actually believed Obito shouldn't be punished for his crimes.
Why does naruto idealizing the hokage seat mean he's being selfless? His reasons for being hokage have massively evolved from wanting everyone to acknowledge him, to bringing peace to the ninja world. How is that not selfless?
In addition to that, literally selfless is not the exact opposite of selfishness. You don't have to be literally selfless as in not caring for yourself in order to not be selfish which is ONLY caring for yourself. Your original post was taking a jab at Naruto being selfish which Naruto absolutely is not. He puts everyone in front of him, if he pursues a goal he only does it because he truly believes its for the good of everyone not himself, and that's why he's able to forgive Obito so easily because hatred and anger for the stuff Obito did before are completely useless and if Naruto is to preach peace, he can't have that in him.
Here is the thing - compensation doesn't always equate punishment. I am assuming it?
It's what the seat represents and the ideals it supports. Naruto is selfish, and that term expands into something beyond what you highlighted. Any ideology you have, or you support, automatically makes it a product of what your self covets. It means whatever you are doing it is to satisfy the self.
- Status