So Obito isn't really dead

[Cael]

If the concept of souls are in naruto, then yea there is an afterlife,

 

[legarcon]

Who besides me is actually glad Obito is finally dead (for the moment)? Yes, he went out more as a hero, but it took him so long to realize the error of his ways (longer than Nagato) and he didn't really show remorse for those that he killed/help kill until after his defeat (whereas Nagato did revive the people he recently killed and essentially admitted defeat to Naruto but could have killed Naruto even in his condition and Konan was there to help kill Naruto if it turned out that way).

Also, because of Nagato's ideology of peace vs. Obito's deluded peace ideology, this is why I still favor Nagato's death over Obito's. Now, Obito dying as a kid, I will feel more sad for but not adult Obito because of how evil Obito became (Yes, Nagato was evil, however, Obito was more evil, to me, and Nagato's tragic childhood I find more justified in being evil vs. Obito's evil largely stemmed from essentially a friendzoning).

you saying that obito became evil just cos he got friendzoned is so short sighted, and a prove that you just browse through the pages without really analizing what the characters mean, that is like saying naruto´s fixation on sasuke return was unfounded, remember that a character can tell you more than what is written in the pages, even so kishi just told you in this chapter what obito´s character mean, obito as a character is the represantation of solitude and one of the most interesting characters in my opinion

 

[RinneBlitz]

Zabuza meant that they were dead, but the next moment they awakened as Edo Tensei. Something like that lol.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Zabuza meant that they were dead, but the next moment they awakened as Edo Tensei. Something like that lol.

He knew that they were dead, and stated that it was not the afterlife, meaning they were in the afterlife just like Kakashi was.

 

[Floydical]

What if people brought back have no memory of the afterlife they experienced? Zabuza might have went to hell but when he was brought back, he had no memory of it cause..... well he was dead and couldn't recall it -_-

 

[legarcon]

What if people brought back have no memory of the afterlife they experienced? Zabuza might have went to hell but when he was brought back, he had no memory of it cause..... well he was dead and couldn't recall it -_-

exactly since memories are store in the brain and when they re death they dont have physical bodies therefore no brain so when they come back they just remember what was stored in they´re brains when they still had them

 

[Aim64C]

If you go by what you're sating then Doctors should not do body transplants on anybody because it inter fears with the natural order. No hearth transplants, we should not prolong life. Naruto did what Doctors have ben working on today, to use the DNA Code to replace damage and missing parts. So your family would be selfish to get you a hearth,kidney,or eye transplant if you needed it. Think about that.

You're wrong, here.

A doctor does what he can do to resolve a problem. Your family does what they can to resolve a problem.

It is natural for people to seek the ability to resolve even greater problems.

But death is a natural consequence of life, and no one should ever seek to prevent all death in every case, as Naruto is doing. Obito plainly stated that he needed to conserve his chakra - and it is very clear that if Naruto fails in defeating Kaguya - there will be far greater problems.

Instead.

Naruto chose to try and save Obito and was wasting his potential on a selfish desire to simply not lose people. Despite the fact that Obito was telling him that he'd made peace with himself. Despite the fact that Sasuke was entering into combat against Kaguya. Naruto was focused on what he wanted to happen because he felt like he could do anything.

This is the path the Sage of Six Paths walked, and it is the path of destruction. It is the Outer Path that believes one's self to be responsible for making the world peaceful rather than realizing that the path to peace is one's acceptance of the world. He is growing to reject the world around him and to hold it in contempt.

Hinata will snap him out of it, though. It is all illustrated in the key:

You must be registered for see images

The Eight Trigrams are depicted as the triangle - Susano'o - the god of the stars and the guiding light.

Of course, to understand this key - you need to do a bit of research into Shinto and Taoist views and symbols. But the key pretty much reveals that Infinite Tsukuyomi places people in a state of sleep - or ignorance of the self/presence (hence the erosion of their identities and the transformation into the blank white Zetsu - meant to be a representation of people made hollow by the doldrums of life). The stars, the navigational aids - are what guide you through until Amaterasu - the sun - guides you.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is an infinite dream world - infinite sleep and infinite complacency.

All of this is consistent with the Shinto concepts of divine presence.

All of this is superimposed on top of the Bagua - the Eight Trigrams of Taoist models of the universe and spiritual presence. The spiral at the center not only represents the moon (Tsukuyomi) - but also represents the cycling of Yin and Yang (as the moon is often the center of Taoist imagery since it is always shifting between light and dark - yin to yang and yang to yin). This is also the symbol for the Uzumaki.

Hinata's namesake will come back into play, here - as it's a direct reference to the moon in this model.

To understand what's happening - you also have to understand how Taoists view destiny.

Naruto's destiny is to play a crucial part in the formation of the next thousand years of destiny.

If you have a pool of water, and you toss a drop of water into that pool - the ripples extend out from the impact according to raw rules of nature that the person throwing the water cannot control. He/she can only choose where and how to introduce that drop.

The fruit is that drop of water. It represents the power to shape destiny - the golden elixir with the power to cast new light upon the Tao. His destiny to be that person was largely set in play the moment Kaguya gave the fruit's power to her sons.

This whole war is, essentially, over who gets to cast the drop of water - the fruit. Kaguya was never supposed to use the fruit on the Earth. She was supposed to take the fruit, as countless before her had, and ascend to a different plane (or just another planet - basically not try and use it to control events on the earth).

Thus, when Naruto's destiny was molded by the Taiji - so, too, was Hinata's. As Neji correctly observed during the Chunin exams. "You and Hinata share the same destiny. Yes, there can be no mistake, your destiny is to lose to me."

His statements only seemed false because we did not understand what Neji 'saw' versus what he interpreted. The process of divination is an interesting one within Taoism. No matter what the process of divination reveals - it is not the entirety of what is to be, only a part of it. Some people believe that divination only shows what you are supposed to see (or what you need to see) - while others insist it is simply a fragment that you choose to interpret.

Regardless, the point is that there is a whole lot going on here beneath the obvious plot. The symbol on Naruto's palm - the full moon - is the symbol of return - it is the process of Yang becoming Yin. Yin is often a reference for the human mind in reference to the divine mind. There are multiple connotations, here - but it goes along with the idea that the Sage has corrupted Naruto by giving him the power that he did.

It is a power that is not Naruto's own and it has led him to believe that he can do anything (and therefor should). Even though his intentions are noble ones and come from the idea that no one should have to sacrifice or give of themselves for his sake - it is ultimately a destructive path that goes against every crux of Taoist, Buddhist, and even many Shinto teachings.

 

[Angelic.]

^^^ i like the idea naruto could lose himself with his new power. he said ''i feel like i can do anything'' but he tried saving obito and thought he could be loved but he realisticly couldnt. what if sasuke has to snap him out of it and take away that power? it would be a good twist. itachi told naruto that if he acts alone and relies on power then he'll lose himself and become like tobi.
i think obito might rub off on naruto too much. those who entrust and those who are entrusted cant always be keeping that promise.

obito said become hokage at all cost, but what if he doesnt? as tobi said ''what would they think of you if you fail?'' well we know that rin is proud of obito and itachi of sasuke no matter what. naruto needs to learn that too. that promises cant always be kept. especially if sasuke wants to be hokage too... naruto may just end up having to go back on his word.

 

[Aim64C]

^^^ i like the idea naruto could lose himself with his new power. he said ''i feel like i can do anything'' but he tried saving obito and thought he could be loved but he realisticly couldnt. what if sasuke has to snap him out of it and take away that power? it would be a good twist. itachi told naruto that if he acts alone and relies on power then he'll lose himself and become like tobi.
i think obito might rub off on naruto too much. those who entrust and those who are entrusted cant always be keeping that promise.

obito said become hokage at all cost, but what if he doesnt? as tobi said ''what would they think of you if you fail?'' well we know that rin is proud of obito and itachi of sasuke no matter what. naruto needs to learn that too. that promises cant always be kept. especially if sasuke wants to be hokage too... naruto may just end up having to go back on his word.

I don't think Sasuke is any more enlightened than Naruto, at this point.

He, too, has been corrupted by the Sage - though in a slightly different way.

Sasuke was a 'lost' individual, before. He found some answers when he spoke with the previous Hokage - but he was still quite tantric. The sage changed that, giving him a power that, much like Naruto - makes him feel as if he can do what he feels is necessary. Note that we do not see the conversation between Hagoromo and Sasuke - we only see the conversation from Naruto's perspective and are filled in on the fact that Sasuke has been chatting with the Sage the entire time, too.

But was it the same conversation?

Hagoromo was quick to dissuade Naruto from asking about Kaguya and directed the course of the conversation onto Madara.

Sasuke, on the other hand, knew immediately that he and Naruto could seal Kaguya and steered Naruto toward that end.

Think about how out of character that is for Naruto, at this point. He hasn't been 'himself' in dealing with Kaguya. There is almost never an enemy he fails to empathize with or to show concern for their person. Kaguya is exempted from this - she is a machine for him to fight against (or so his behavior suggests).

What would her story reveal? Is there a solution that does not involve sealing her?

If sealing her was such a good idea - why is she not currently sealed?

If it was Naruto and Sasuke's spirit that called to Hagoromo and -that- is why he was able to travel to the present... then why is he appearing before the edo Hokage?

Perhaps the Sage's intentions are noble ones. Perhaps he is knowingly devious. Perhaps he has deluded himself into thinking he is capable of 'doing right' in this manner. Regardless - he's walking a heretical and destructive path, having guided Naruto and Sasuke along it.

Which brings me back to Sasuke and my statements about the power of the fruit.

Naruto wants to bring about peace in the world.

Sasuke wants to create a peaceful world.

There's a difference in what those two goals imply. Sasuke wants a world that is fundamentally different - where the laws of life are different, where a dream-like paradise -is- reality (not just an illusion under IT).

Naruto wants -this- world to be a place where people are always happy and satisfied. Currently, at least.

Perhaps the idea is that the Sage will suggest that, through the power of the fruit - everyone's dream can become their own independent reality within IT. That it -could- be real.

The loss of Obito, Neji, etc is enough to push Naruto to consider that idea. If it's no longer a 'lie' and they will no longer die because of IT ... then what's wrong with it? Everyone will be happy.

It will be about that point when Hinata pops out of somewhere and has a bunch of people accusing Kishimoto of playing fan-service (because they don't actually pay attention to things). I have my suspicions that she's intrinsically tied to Kaguya (though my theories on how are stepping out on limbs). It could go that Hinata discovers Kaguya (or the part of her that is Kaguya) within IT. Perhaps as Hinata's personality is scrubbed away by IT - the heart of Kaguya emerges.

Or - perhaps Kishimoto will go for a tragic ending and everyone's personality is obliterated in IT and an army of white zetsu are used by Kaguya to force Naruto to kill the 'people' he once knew. Perhaps their transformations are only partial.

I don't -want- the manga to end that way... but sometimes the stories that end the way you want them to are just not very gratifying at the end. Perhaps that is why some of the 'greatest' stories and anime have endings that are regarded as being somewhat open or cryptic as to what the ending means for the characters.

 

[JustSomeDerp]

You're wrong, here.

A doctor does what he can do to resolve a problem. Your family does what they can to resolve a problem.

It is natural for people to seek the ability to resolve even greater problems.

But death is a natural consequence of life, and no one should ever seek to prevent all death in every case, as Naruto is doing. Obito plainly stated that he needed to conserve his chakra - and it is very clear that if Naruto fails in defeating Kaguya - there will be far greater problems.

Instead.

Naruto chose to try and save Obito and was wasting his potential on a selfish desire to simply not lose people. Despite the fact that Obito was telling him that he'd made peace with himself. Despite the fact that Sasuke was entering into combat against Kaguya. Naruto was focused on what he wanted to happen because he felt like he could do anything.

This is the path the Sage of Six Paths walked, and it is the path of destruction. It is the Outer Path that believes one's self to be responsible for making the world peaceful rather than realizing that the path to peace is one's acceptance of the world. He is growing to reject the world around him and to hold it in contempt.

Hinata will snap him out of it, though. It is all illustrated in the key:

You must be registered for see images

The Eight Trigrams are depicted as the triangle - Susano'o - the god of the stars and the guiding light.

Of course, to understand this key - you need to do a bit of research into Shinto and Taoist views and symbols. But the key pretty much reveals that Infinite Tsukuyomi places people in a state of sleep - or ignorance of the self/presence (hence the erosion of their identities and the transformation into the blank white Zetsu - meant to be a representation of people made hollow by the doldrums of life). The stars, the navigational aids - are what guide you through until Amaterasu - the sun - guides you.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is an infinite dream world - infinite sleep and infinite complacency.

All of this is consistent with the Shinto concepts of divine presence.

All of this is superimposed on top of the Bagua - the Eight Trigrams of Taoist models of the universe and spiritual presence. The spiral at the center not only represents the moon (Tsukuyomi) - but also represents the cycling of Yin and Yang (as the moon is often the center of Taoist imagery since it is always shifting between light and dark - yin to yang and yang to yin). This is also the symbol for the Uzumaki.

Hinata's namesake will come back into play, here - as it's a direct reference to the moon in this model.

To understand what's happening - you also have to understand how Taoists view destiny.

Naruto's destiny is to play a crucial part in the formation of the next thousand years of destiny.

If you have a pool of water, and you toss a drop of water into that pool - the ripples extend out from the impact according to raw rules of nature that the person throwing the water cannot control. He/she can only choose where and how to introduce that drop.

The fruit is that drop of water. It represents the power to shape destiny - the golden elixir with the power to cast new light upon the Tao. His destiny to be that person was largely set in play the moment Kaguya gave the fruit's power to her sons.

This whole war is, essentially, over who gets to cast the drop of water - the fruit. Kaguya was never supposed to use the fruit on the Earth. She was supposed to take the fruit, as countless before her had, and ascend to a different plane (or just another planet - basically not try and use it to control events on the earth).

Thus, when Naruto's destiny was molded by the Taiji - so, too, was Hinata's. As Neji correctly observed during the Chunin exams. "You and Hinata share the same destiny. Yes, there can be no mistake, your destiny is to lose to me."

His statements only seemed false because we did not understand what Neji 'saw' versus what he interpreted. The process of divination is an interesting one within Taoism. No matter what the process of divination reveals - it is not the entirety of what is to be, only a part of it. Some people believe that divination only shows what you are supposed to see (or what you need to see) - while others insist it is simply a fragment that you choose to interpret.

Regardless, the point is that there is a whole lot going on here beneath the obvious plot. The symbol on Naruto's palm - the full moon - is the symbol of return - it is the process of Yang becoming Yin. Yin is often a reference for the human mind in reference to the divine mind. There are multiple connotations, here - but it goes along with the idea that the Sage has corrupted Naruto by giving him the power that he did.

It is a power that is not Naruto's own and it has led him to believe that he can do anything (and therefor should). Even though his intentions are noble ones and come from the idea that no one should have to sacrifice or give of themselves for his sake - it is ultimately a destructive path that goes against every crux of Taoist, Buddhist, and even many Shinto teachings.

This blew my mind you my friend deserve a like