[Discussion] Oda needs to take his head out of Zoro's green a....
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I didn't expect him to be weaker. Since Zoro has become much stronger than pre-TS i expected him to be pit against real fighters. Not some fodders that he keeps neg-diffing. I mean think about it. Just because Zoro is the "brawn" type character does not mean that he can spend 90% of an arc getting lost and sleeping and 10% fighting against the 2nd strongest opponent. And Luffy beating Chinjao isn't really bs since Chin is way past his prime and he didn't even have his drill at the time. Thats like fighting a swordless Mihawk, its justified.
If Oda plans on making Zoro do useless things 90% of the arc and then miraculously showing up to the final battle, he might aswell make him skip that one aswell. Since he's lost 90% of the time, he should be lost during the fight aswell and not show up to neg-diff everyone on sight.
Also, although Sanji isn't your brawn type of character that never stopped him from fighting. Zoro fights for the thrill of fighting whereas Luffy and Sanji's fights are often them trying to protect something. Outside of battle, Sanji uses his brains but that doesn't take away the fact that he is indeed a part of the brawns of the SH's. Sanji is both brain and brawn type of character.
P.S. My point is that the one liners don't fit his style. He sounds cheesy as hell at times.
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KGB Kakuzu
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Except,
1. No display of Haki.
2. Couldn't land a legitimate blow against his opponent.
3. Closest he gets is an omnidirectional strike that is dodged while Zoro is distracted.
4. Pica is panting/wheezing and stressed.
Comparatively with Vergo
1. He's shown the most use of Armament Haki to date.
2. Was besting down Sanji while not even trying.
3. Shows definite skill in combat.
4.Took Smoker and Law to defeat him, and lost while suddenly defying logic and blatantly charging a man who cuts anything in his room (literally pulling a Tashigi).
No, I do not see how anyone can think Pica without question trumps Vergo. Especially when someone like Elizabello II who's hardly the strongest of the Colloseum gladiators could blow up his generated arm in co-operation with Chinjao. A group currently getting absolutely wrecked by the Executes (Dellinger).
OT: Yeah I agree. The amount if people going over board is honestly approaching Itachi 2.9.... And I'm not ok with that. Especially since I know, like Itachi, there will always be respectable Zoro fans out there.
But from a story prospective its a 50/50. On one side, taking on this level of opponent is good because it means your really can live a confrontation with a Yonko crew. On the other hand, it makes for bland writing when you one shot everything. More so when all the tension of this arc, not to mention Pica's own personal hype, is tarnished with not only looking like a joke against Zoro, but then being finished with a "You're not on my level." The most enjoyable moment in that fight was Zoro saying Pica dared to threaten Luffy.
The other problem is it generates a ludicrous power gap between mid-and monster trio. The way they've been writing Brook, Franky, and Robin basically has so far shown them to be around the level of Executives. But now the M3 is low riffing the Top Executives?! I mean what is literally the point of bringing along the rest if the crew when 90% of it can't even handle part of an enemy group. More so, how could Law POSSIBLY have factored a 30% win chance with Kaido. Since Kaido has his own executives, who now should THRASH everything Doflamingo has while he trashes Doflamingo. Leaving the M3, and Law to fight the ENTIRETY of Kaido's elite. Because the rest of the crew would be screwed fighting the fodder given they can't take the basic of Doffy's crew.
I think that's my largest disappointment. It creates a power gap thst more so cripples the SH's instead of making the M3 look good.
What a mature and well thought out response....oh whoops. Sarcasm keyboard was on.
That's the OP's point. Who in the New World. The strongest sea. The place where only the strong survive. Has given Zoro ANY competition. Who?
Issho is the only one who has. Guess what, Oda couldn't even let Zoro go down without pulling a lash back thst Fujitora HAS to give a respective nod to. An occasional Zoro vs Monet is great. Because we can say, "shit Zoro's Badass." But when we reach the culmination of basically a Saga (build up since PH), and we STILL see nothing but one shots from Zoro...it gets old. The greatest moments are won from the tough fights. Honestly Mihawk raping Zoro in East blue has trumped every New World moment Zoro has had. Simply becsuse the impact and emotion behind it was thst much more meaningful.
Trash talk can be cool. But nothing but trash talk makes for a trashy character. Since Zoro has shown he should be above such a thing, its sad to watch his character coast in the NW without a legitimate and exciting battle.
Oh, and I'm a Nico Robin fan. DUH Zoro solos her. But thst is irrelevant. Figured I'd save you the trouble of saying it.
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kmrasengan
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Robin is awesome, and I would actually like for her to fight a strong person this arc. Also please Oda, Make Brook a bit stronger, he's legitly by 2nd fave SH, and I wanna see him wreck sh*t up in the NW aswell, but then again we can't expect everyone to be a strong fighter, Nami and Ussop are more of a support type, they're skills aren't suited for close combat, so it would be good if Oda in the future actally use them as support in fights, and don't forget that without Nami they wouldn't get where they are, and we have chopper who is the medic, and actually does a pretty god job at it.
About the Zoro part, I was actually expecting him to go all out in this arc, but let's wait, Pica might noe be finished. Pica was the guy that told Doffy not to worry abot Fujitora and I think Sabo because he would take care of them, so Pica must have something more, let's wait and see.
Terrible thread, sorry but it is
None of the M3 fought a formidable opponent yet, Sanji v Vergo lasted for a few seconds as did Luffy v DD, opponents like CC and Hody don't even count because they are fodder
It's quite evident Luffy>Zoro
And Zoro got owned by Yeti cool bros btw
None of the M3 fought a formidable opponent yet, Sanji v Vergo lasted for a few seconds as did Luffy v DD, opponents like CC and Hody don't even count because they are fodder
It's quite evident Luffy>Zoro
And Zoro got owned by Yeti cool bros btw
It's fans who insist using the idiotic phrase "solo king", it's not Oda's fault
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Wow, everyone jumped down my throat.
However, Zoro's move was literally ten times stronger than what we've see before. So, he didn't get his 'ass whooped' for no reason.
I did not mean that I want to 'deliberately bad mouth with no justification', I personally think he's being way too glorified in this thread than he should be.
PS: Zoro has trained under Mihawk, who's literally in league with Shanks. So, I did not expect any less from him.
As for Sanji, he'll get his chance to shine (yes, he deserves more action time. My opinion... At least, I hope he gets it.)
You have a point.
However, Zoro's move was literally ten times stronger than what we've see before. So, he didn't get his 'ass whooped' for no reason.
Being condescending as you are being right now doesn't help either.
I did not mean that I want to 'deliberately bad mouth with no justification', I personally think he's being way too glorified in this thread than he should be.
Yeah, so? It's simply a running gag. There is nothing more to it, the same applies to Sanji's.
True. He does have a devil fruit though, a super useful one.
He was going ape shit on the entire town, so that point isn't really fair. As for Zoro, your point is valid.
That's how he should be reacting by now.
Well, he's not a devil fruit user. So, I don't see a better way of fighting other than Haki, if one does know how to use it.
It could also mean that Sanji isn't strong enough, or didn't get a 'fair chance' to fight him solo in an open area (to sugar coat it).
Pica wasn't just sitting there having a cup of coffee either.
And that defines how strong he is or how stupid he is?
That's really not a big deal, as you are making it sound to be. They just blew up his arm, which he regenerated back later. (or did he? Do let me know if I'm making it up).
PS: Zoro has trained under Mihawk, who's literally in league with Shanks. So, I did not expect any less from him.
As for Sanji, he'll get his chance to shine (yes, he deserves more action time. My opinion... At least, I hope he gets it.)
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KGB Kakuzu
Active member
This is in and of itself the problem. They have yet to face a legitimate challenge.
We are now at the culmination of Punk Hazard and Dressrosa, but Zoro still can't find someone to at least have a mid-high diff fight with? Meanwhile, at least Luffy has been given situations thst place him. in hard fights like fighting Hody under water. Or fighting CC who has poison on him.
We know (hope) Doflamingo will actually be a legitimate challenge. So Luffy will have his first real fight where he goes all out. When he's going all out, we should see the whole crew going all out.
So Zoro one shotting Doflamingo's only remaining right hand man (since Vergo is gone), does not feel right at all.
Much worse, it creates a gap between the M3 and the rest of the crew that's honestly not even close to being a good thing. Sure its nice thst the M3 looks bad to the bone, but the Mid3 seemingly can barely hold out against the regular Executives. How can they even HOPE to take a Yonko on when only 3 members of the crew can legitimately challenge the Yonko. Only one who's managed an Executive was Brook who KO'd Jura...who wasn't even paying attention to him becsuse be was transformed.
Law's plan originally called for 30% chance. But honestly given the majority of the SH's are walking targets its hard to see. The M3 will be having to take shots for them, not to mention best Kaido, his elites, and 500 Zoan army.
Black Mamba
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lmfaoooo why are you crying??? you say you don't hate zoro, but you're obviously hating on him in this thread. if you don't like the how easily he's beating his opponents just suck it up and stop crying. he's obviously will fight someone his level later on in the manga.
KGB Kakuzu
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But Luffy has a DF and Haki. As does Law, Doflamingo, Marco, Onigumo, Tsuru, etc. A devil fruit isn't an excuse TK not have Haki. It's been made pretty clear its Haki and not a DF that makes you in the New World.
Pica terra-formed the city to create high ground for Doflamingo and the factory. This was done before he enters battle. Upon making a giant form of himself, he was incapable of Lansing a shot on a single opponent. Not one Colloseum warrior. Zoro is never touched during Pica vs Zoro. He was not going to Town on the town during that time.
Explain why? Really there's no reason the second strongest combatant here can't give Zoro an equal challenge. Instead he's done, and Zoro hasn't even broken a sweat.
Once more, Haki is what defines the strong and the weak in the New World. If he didn't have it, he'd be fighting with his bamboo stick and Rokushiki. He simply has Haki as well.
The scene showed Vergo was stronger. The openness of the area didn't seem to change much. Sanji himself admitted it when he notes of the fight had continued he'd be done. Which is a problem. Vergo is stronger than Pica, but I wouldn't say he one shots Pica. I can't see Luffu and Zoro having gotten THAT much stronger than Sanji.
Naturally, however, Vergo has shown masterful hand to hand combat. Haki usage, Rokushiki, and the use of a Bamboo stick as both a ranged explosive and a besting stick. He's shown adaptability. Pica can move rocks and swing a sword.
It suggests Vergo is stronger than Pica. It took a Vice Admiral who's constantly compared to Luffy's rival, and one if Luffy's worst generation rivals to put him down. Not to mention it takes Vergo having just one moment of arrogance so thst he loses.
[Quote.]That's really not a big deal, as you are making it sound to be. They just blew up his arm, which he regenerated back later. (or did he? Do let me know if I'm making it up).[/QUOTE]
The point was this. The Colloseum warrior are being put on Par with regular Executives. So a regular executive levep fighter alongside another one could basically destroy the ENTIRETY of Pica's stone arm. Yes it regrew, but that can happen with any of Pica's statue parts. Even Zoro's cut could be replaced. His only problem was he got cut by Zoro.
So in short: two people on a level of Pica's underlings could completely destroy one of Pica's arms...so basically one of his attacks. Which doesn't do Pica any justice compared to how hyped up Vergo was.
In terms of defeating Pica, clearly this action didn't mean much...as Elizabello and Chinjao did nothing long term. But they still showed they could deflect Pica's attack. Something I don't think a single of the Colloseum warriors but Chinjao could do if struck by Vergo.
Just because one is being critical towards a character doesn't automatically mean he or she hates said character. Hell o give Robin shit every chapter. She's still my favorite.
The point is, where everyone else has had a situstion that creates a legitimate struggle, Zoro has had not one single problem. The closest was the Yeti Cool brothers and even with the KO gas he ends up staying concious and slicing through a mountainside.
I'd like to see Zoro in an all out fight with tbe emotions of Zoro vs Dazz or Zoro vs Kaku...where we see Zoro's desire to be the best truly surface. It's 10X better than seeing Zoro talk shit to people he's just going to one panel.
Have already explained twice the other implications it brings.
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Zoro is one of my fav characters....I aint hating on him, im hating on Oda for making him like this.
Yes it is Oda's fault. Are the fans the ones writing this manga? are we the ones who made Zoro damn near invincible and a soloing machine? No.
Oda is the one making Zoro invincible. After his promise to Mihawk he can't lose anymore. All his fights are inconclusive or him winning. And when he does "lose" Oda is always giving him some excuse for that. Its always either a handicap or a handicap+the enemy is top-tier (in which case him losing is completely understandable). Every time Oda makes Zoro look bad he adds an excuse right after it.
Oda doesn't pit Zoro against real threats like Vergo or DD because he knows he'd lose. He has to resort to making him fight fodder. Also, all we're seeing right now is Zoro talking shit to people and neg-diffing them.
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Bad comparison. You're confusing DC(destructive capacity) with overall fighting strength. Enel has comparable DC to the admirals, but he is far weaker than them. The officers(like Vergo as well) so far never displayed Chinjao's or Elisabello's DC. Vergo's DC is building level at most. Buildings that are so small that they are practically invisible on the golem's arm. Chinjao can split the ice continent in half. Elisabello can break a fortress. And it required both attacks to destroy the golem's arm. The officers or Vergo would never accomplish what Chinjai+Elisabello did because they lack the DC to accomplish it(at least from what we know so far). Besides, Pica can apparently switch rapidely between the stones, so in order to hit him your attack must also be faster than he can react
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I'm stupid real stupid
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Dr Strangelove
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The rest of the Straw Hats will get their time to shine soon.
Also I highly doubt Sanji is owning Linlin and her crew atm xD him with the rest of the group are most likely face down beaten to a pulp.
It's Odas manga, in the end he can do what he wants with it although he does have an obligation to his fans.
I see why you're so annoyed, the countless Zoro hype threads have been ridiculous since the chapter came out but in the end Oda isn't going to see this thread :/
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KGB Kakuzu
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A fair point, but this is also the same series where Garp can one shot a mountain, and somehow carry an iron ball larger than his ship on his ship. Normal physics and DC are pushed around all the time.
I mean, Barto's barrier could tank the full King Punch, but Bart himself said he could in no way block Pica's punch. The same hand that was destroyed by just part of a King Punch, and a horn drill from a man who hadn't used it since he still had his youthful black hair. I think it was 20-30 years ago.
Not to mention somewhat lanky Luffy, and jump up and punch a ripped giant like Hajrudin and One Shot him., or Ideo can punch with explosive force to send someone off a ring.
Heck, when scrunched between two buildings, Luffy could somehow push them apart with physical strength alone.
To assume Vergo doesn't have such s destructive force, when we've seen people of a similar physical structure do more, is debatable.
Pica's attack is basically like a massive moving building. We already saw Sanji kick an entire building at Moriah in Thriller bark. Hence why I made the point. Going by Shonen logic, Vergo > Chinjao/Elizabello II. He's overall power should be higher than theirs. So I'd wager his physical strength is at a level to where he could destroy stones through punching them. Or if not, would simply tank it with Haki.
I had been hoping Trebol due to all the Clover references with tbe latter's clover outfit. Plus the fact he's been mad that she tricked him... Probably won't happen though.
Brook's been solid (Soul Solid
). Did well despite being creeped out with Kinemon's body, and one shot Jura as a piece if art. I'm sure he'll handle Pekoms fairly well, or at Least do very well with Chopperehelping out.Naturally, not every SH can be a solo god. But it doesn't mean they have to be hopeless. Nami honestly boasts one of the highest attack levels in the SH crew...assuming she can live long enough to do so. Plus, her weather manipulation easily serves as a strong advantage for say: naval warfare. Ussop also has his sniper moments like his Sogeking performance. They each have a useful role vital for the crew (Except well Robin and Brook...as you don't NEED their professions).
I am simply not being too fond of the idea that the entire crew minus 3 people seem to have a serious issue or struggle with tbe regular Executives...but the M3 supposedly one shots the top executives. If the M3 could high diff the executives and then have enough energy to fight fodder (like Ennis Lobby) that's fine and dandy.
But the gap of low diffing Pica when Franky is currently being handed down by Senor Pink in my opinion is too much of a gap because it implies most of the crew can't even handle the Executives of Doflamingo. So how can they expect to even touch the "executives" of a Yonko.
So my hope is one of the two.
1. If Zoro really just put down Pica, then I'd hope the Mid3 are at least on the Top Executive level. Only problem they have is that their bad match ups for Pica, Trebol, Diamante. Thst and as of the moment, Franky is just having a hard time adapting to Pink's DF.
2. Pica actually isn't done yet, and is about to lead Zoro into a legitimate fight.
Has it ever occured to you that maybe this "solo king" of yours is one of my favourite character?
Zoro is one of my fav characters. I just don't ride him to the fullest like you and the rest of these Zorotards.
Ohh and good luck with him trying to solo Sabo...
XD i know Sanji isn't owning BM and his crew. Im just saying that im taking solace in the fact that Sanji is facing them right now Lol
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Forbidden Tale
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I think that Ode really messed up with Zoro post time skip. Zoro didn't got much development, he just portray him as badass character and nothing more...
Dr Strangelove
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I just hope he holds his own against her crew, that way he has some feats either rivalling or surpassing Zoros post skip. (I know Zoro is stronger, just saying Sanji needs some good 'press' I guess you could say xD )