EDO Madara vs EMS Madara

[lanakui8]

Assumption or not, both Madara have the same contract, so both can summon or de-summon at will, making Kurama not much of a factor here.

I flat out gave you an argument why that would not be possible. Refute that argument or concede the point that edo madara can't summon kurama once ems madara has summoned him.

Using your logic, I can assume Kurama covered in susano'o cannot jump higher than 20 feet or run in any direction other than the one it was summoned in, just because he haven't seen him do so.

absolutely not. I never EVER said that just because we didn't see such a thing happen means that it can't happen. Kurama can jump or move in other directions because we have no good reason to believe that he can't do so. However, with madara's techniques, we do have a good reason to believe he can't perform those. Some would be the fact that he had situations in which using those simultaneously would have greatly benefited him, others would be that i was never stated or implied that madara could use all of base hashirama's jutsu.

He used limbo after he was revived because he didn't have any other Rinnegan techniques because of having one eye. There should be no reason to assume that he couldn't of used Limbo, unless you use your bad logic of "since when could." Using your logic, I'll also assume that Kurama wrapped in susano'o can only use the tailed beast bomb once, which sucks for Madara.

Once again, it's not madara couldn't do X because he hasn't been shown to do it, it's madara couldn't do X because he had good reason to do so, yet didn't. If Madara could use quad limbo, he'd have massacred the gokage, he wouldn't have explicitly stated that his PS was his full power, he would have massacred hashirama etc. We also have very good reason not to attribute living madara's abilities to his edo form because we are blatantly told that the edo tenseis were not revived back at full power, and

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Also reverse your logic, and we can extrapolate any character's abilities to infinity. You could say BM Naruto could use a thousand BM avatars all using gigantic bijuudamas because naruto can make a thousand clones, BM Naruto can make BM clones and the manga never said that BM clones couldn't use the BM avatar. So not only do you get my logic wrong, but your logic is even worse than what you accuse me of as it would be the equivalent of saying 'prove me wrong, else I'm right' the equivalent of telling me to prove a negative.

Therefore we have very good reason to believe those assertions you've put on madara's abilities are not true, and therefore if you want to argue that they are true, you have to give some kind of argument.

@ the bolded, you're even wrong on this account as Kyuusanoo fired at least 11 bijuudamas at shinsuusenjuu. Read the manga.

 

[NeutralChaos]

I flat out gave you an argument why that would not be possible. Refute that argument or concede the point that edo madara can't summon kurama once ems madara has summoned him.


absolutely not. I never EVER said that just because we didn't see such a thing happen means that it can't happen. Kurama can jump or move in other directions because we have no good reason to believe that he can't do so. However, with madara's techniques, we do have a good reason to believe he can't perform those. Some would be the fact that he had situations in which using those simultaneously would have greatly benefited him, others would be that i was never stated or implied that madara could use all of base hashirama's jutsu.


Once again, it's not madara couldn't do X because he hasn't been shown to do it, it's madara couldn't do X because he had good reason to do so, yet didn't. If Madara could use quad limbo, he'd have massacred the gokage, he wouldn't have explicitly stated that his PS was his full power, he would have massacred hashirama etc. We also have very good reason not to attribute living madara's abilities to his edo form because we are blatantly told that the edo tenseis were not revived back at full power, and

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Also reverse your logic, and we can extrapolate any character's abilities to infinity. You could say BM Naruto could use a thousand BM avatars all using gigantic bijuudamas because naruto can make a thousand clones, BM Naruto can make BM clones and the manga never said that BM clones couldn't use the BM avatar. So not only do you get my logic wrong, but your logic is even worse than what you accuse me of as it would be the equivalent of saying 'prove me wrong, else I'm right' the equivalent of telling me to prove a negative.

Therefore we have very good reason to believe those assertions you've put on madara's abilities are not true, and therefore if you want to argue that they are true, you have to give some kind of argument.

@ the bolded, you're even wrong on this account as Kyuusanoo fired at least 11 bijuudamas at shinsuusenjuu. Read the manga.

So because you think that Madara could not do those things, it is a fact? I have no reason to believe that Madara, who has infinite chakra, the Rinnegan, and wood-style, could lose to an inferior self. The fact that he covered Kurama highly indicates he can cover other techniques, or is it because for some reason Madara can not perform the golem even though he has seen the seals, and has already used many of Hashirama's famed techniques. Once again, you also BELIEVE that there's some link to the original summon, when there's only been stated a contract with an animal allows one to summon at will. There's no reason to believe that Madara can not summon his own pet, as doing so is not restricted in this fight. The fact that Madara did not use a certain technique at certain time does not mean anything. He obviously never even fought at full power in his Edo form and only toyed with the Kage. We also never saw the fight between Madara and Hashirama in the war, so we don't even know if Madara wanted to be fair and only use his natural techniques.

 

[lanakui8]

So because you think that Madara could not do those things, it is a fact? I have no reason to believe that Madara, who has infinite chakra, the Rinnegan, and wood-style, could lose to an inferior self.

I never said anything that I posted was an absolute fact.
if you presuppose that EMS Madara w/ 100% Kurama is in fact inferior to edo madara, then of course you would think edo madara would win, but why believe that edo madara is superior?

The fact that he covered Kurama highly indicates he can cover other techniques, or is it because for some reason Madara can not perform the golem even though he has seen the seals, and has already used many of Hashirama's famed techniques.

Hashirama's golem is a far more advanced mokuton technique than anything madara has ever shown. It's advanced to the point that it can singlehandedly compete with edo madara's PS, can put the kyuubi to sleep with a touch, all the while madara's most advanced shown technique is the one that got fodderized by 100% Kurama while mokujin caused madara to activate PS.

Sure I agree that him covering kurama highly indicates he can cover other techniques, however what I don't agree with is him using and controlling a technique like mokujin while simultaneously using and controlling PS.

Once again, you also BELIEVE that there's some link to the original summon, when there's only been stated a contract with an animal allows one to summon at will. There's no reason to believe that Madara can not summon his own pet, as doing so is not restricted in this fight.

We know there is a link to the original summon which is why obito loses control of kurama once his summoning contract is sealed and why gamakichi says that the time limit of his summoning is about to run out. Then there's the fact that gamabunta was busy and decided not to be summoned by naruto despite naruto wanting to summon him. So again, many reasons that someone can't just summon another persons summon that has already been summoned. And again, EMS Madara w/ 100% Kurama implies that Edo madara can't summon him.

The fact that Madara did not use a certain technique at certain time does not mean anything. He obviously never even fought at full power in his Edo form and only toyed with the Kage. We also never saw the fight between Madara and Hashirama in the war, so we don't even know if Madara wanted to be fair and only use his natural techniques.

So basically, you have no reason to believe that madara could use the techniques you ascribe to him other than saying "you can't prove your own argument to be necessarily true with 100% certainty". That's pretty much you conceding this argument, since no one asserts that kind of certainty.

It's not just the fact that madara didn't use a certain ability at a certain time, it's the fact that he had very good reason to use abilities, yet doesn't use them. He even flat out says to the gokage that PS is his full power. We know that living rinnegan madara >>>>>>> edo rinnegan madara, and we know edo madara had FAKE rinnegans. So all the evidence is against him being capable of using limbo while he's an edo who's blatantly far weaker than his living self and who has fake rinnegans. If Madara says PS is his full power, then it means PS is his full power and that all his other techniques that he could possibly use with PS pale in comparison. Therefore he would not be able to use the mokuton equivalent of PS let alone that and PS at the same time.

 

[NeutralChaos]

I never said anything that I posted was an absolute fact.
if you presuppose that EMS Madara w/ 100% Kurama is in fact inferior to edo madara, then of course you would think edo madara would win, but why believe that edo madara is superior?


Hashirama's golem is a far more advanced mokuton technique than anything madara has ever shown. It's advanced to the point that it can singlehandedly compete with edo madara's PS, can put the kyuubi to sleep with a touch, all the while madara's most advanced shown technique is the one that got fodderized by 100% Kurama while mokujin caused madara to activate PS.

Sure I agree that him covering kurama highly indicates he can cover other techniques, however what I don't agree with is him using and controlling a technique like mokujin while simultaneously using and controlling PS.


We know there is a link to the original summon which is why obito loses control of kurama once his summoning contract is sealed and why gamakichi says that the time limit of his summoning is about to run out. Then there's the fact that gamabunta was busy and decided not to be summoned by naruto despite naruto wanting to summon him. So again, many reasons that someone can't just summon another persons summon that has already been summoned. And again, EMS Madara w/ 100% Kurama implies that Edo madara can't summon him.


So basically, you have no reason to believe that madara could use the techniques you ascribe to him other than saying "you can't prove your own argument to be necessarily true with 100% certainty". That's pretty much you conceding this argument, since no one asserts that kind of certainty.

It's not just the fact that madara didn't use a certain ability at a certain time, it's the fact that he had very good reason to use abilities, yet doesn't use them. He even flat out says to the gokage that PS is his full power. We know that living rinnegan madara >>>>>>> edo rinnegan madara, and we know edo madara had FAKE rinnegans. So all the evidence is against him being capable of using limbo while he's an edo who's blatantly far weaker than his living self and who has fake rinnegans. If Madara says PS is his full power, then it means PS is his full power and that all his other techniques that he could possibly use with PS pale in comparison. Therefore he would not be able to use the mokuton equivalent of PS let alone that and PS at the same time.

Once again, you suppose that Madara, who handled sage mode like nothing, created at least 25 susano'o(maybe even perfect susano'o, he just didn't want to show it then), and handled both perfect susano'o and Kurama at the same time, cannot perform a simple wood-style technique? Bogus. This link that you speak of, is the contract they make with the beast. Both Madara have this contract. Unless you can find me something that states that the two are different, I am form at knowing that. You assume that this "fake Rinnegan" cannot perform only one technique out of the entire arsenal because he simply did not use it at a time. I'm guessing you may also believe Madara cannot summon the triple-headed dog or invisible bird either, because he didn't use it when he could have.

 

[lanakui8]

Once again, you suppose that Madara, who handled sage mode like nothing, created at least 25 susano'o(maybe even perfect susano'o, he just didn't want to show it then), and handle both perfect susano'o and Kurama at the same time, cannot perform a simple wood-style technique? Bogus.

That's not what i'm saying and that's not even true.

Madara created 25 V3 susanoo clones and he had to focus so much power on them that he couldn't even use preta path properly against oonoki's jinton. Once they were destroyed then he created PS.
living EMS Madara handled PS and Kurama at the same time, why would edo madara be able to do such a thing when edo Hashirama was incapable of creating the equivalent shinsuusenjuu?
living madara handled SM like nothing

None of that implies that edo madara is capable of creating a mokuton far more powerful than the most powerful one he's ever created and simultaneously create and use PS to cloak that mokuton, especially when that mokuton is suppose to be PS's equivalent.

This link that you speak of, is the contract they make with the beast. Both Madara have this contract. Unless you can find me something that states that the two are different, I am form at knowing that.

No it's not, the link I speak of is the actual summoning jutsu that they use to bring their summons to the field, which has a time limit, and links the summon to the summoner. It's the same reason why the summoning contract ends when the summoner dies.

You assume that this "fake Rinnegan" cannot perform only one technique out of the entire arsenal because he simply did not use it at a time. I'm guessing you may also believe Madara cannot summon the triple-headed dog or invisible bird either, because he didn't use it when he could have.

Nope, I'm ARGUING that the fake rinnegan can't perform one of madara's rinnegan's original techniques, the technique we get an entire chapter named after, a technique that is so powerful that JJ Madara still uses it as one of his trump cards, blew away all 9 bijuu, and gave naruto and sasuke trouble. A technique that Nagato never showed the ability to use, and a technique that madara had all the reason to use as an edo, yet never does.

Madara probably can summon the triple headed dog and bird because he's used preta path and chibaku tensei the former a pain's path technique, the later which is probably the most advanced pain path technique.

 

[NeutralChaos]

That's not what i'm saying and that's not even true.

Madara created 25 V3 susanoo clones and he had to focus so much power on them that he couldn't even use preta path properly against oonoki's jinton. Once they were destroyed then he created PS.
living EMS Madara handled PS and Kurama at the same time, why would edo madara be able to do such a thing when edo Hashirama was incapable of creating the equivalent shinsuusenjuu?
living madara handled SM like nothing

None of that implies that edo madara is capable of creating a mokuton far more powerful than the most powerful one he's ever created and simultaneously create and use PS to cloak that mokuton, especially when that mokuton is suppose to be PS's equivalent.


No it's not, the link I speak of is the actual summoning jutsu that they use to bring their summons to the field, which has a time limit, and links the summon to the summoner. It's the same reason why the summoning contract ends when the summoner dies.


Nope, I'm ARGUING that the fake rinnegan can't perform one of madara's rinnegan's original techniques, the technique we get an entire chapter named after, a technique that is so powerful that JJ Madara still uses it as one of his trump cards, blew away all 9 bijuu, and gave naruto and sasuke trouble. A technique that Nagato never showed the ability to use, and a technique that madara had all the reason to use as an edo, yet never does.

Madara probably can summon the triple headed dog and bird because he's used preta path and chibaku tensei the former a pain's path technique, the later which is probably the most advanced pain path technique.

Whoa, what the ****. Have you gone full retard? Since when was it EVER implied or stated Madara couldn't have absorbed the technique due to fatigue? I don't remember Hashirama ever saying that he couldn't create the Buddha while under Edo Tensei, but that may just be me. This link you speak of; it was never said that you cannot de-summon within this time limit. Meaning that Edo Madara can summon his own pet. Whether Madara could or could not have used Limbo cannot be proven. The reason for it, is that it is a Rinnegan technique, and he has been shown to use almost every path, so there should be nothing against using it. The reason against it is that it wasn't used while under Edo Tensei. I think the former is a stronger reason, and also the fact that Madara couldn't use any paths with one Rinnegan, left him with only one choose to incapacitate the beasts quickly, and that was Limbo.

 

[lanakui8]

Whoa, what the ****. Have you gone full retard? Since when was it EVER implied or stated Madara couldn't have absorbed the technique due to fatigue?

it's not due to fatigue, it's due to him focusing his power on his 25 clones. It was implied by him trying to jump away from jinton and getting half his body erased rather than just absorb the technique like the many times he's done it before.

I don't remember Hashirama ever saying that he couldn't create the Buddha while under Edo Tensei, but that may just be me.

Hashirama never said he couldn't, but since when are only truths about this manga derived from explicit statements? Hashirama had every reason to use shinsuusenjuu, as it would have neg diffed Madara's PS, and allowed him to help out against Juubito. The fact that he didn't, yet had great reason to do so implies that he couldn't.

This link you speak of; it was never said that you cannot de-summon within this time limit. Meaning that Edo Madara can summon his own pet.

Um, why would EMS Madara desummon Kurama? Desummoning is either a conscious decision by the summoner or the summon. Edo madara has no say in whether kurama gets desummoned or not.

Whether Madara could or could not have used it cannot be proven. The reason for it, is that it is a Rinnegan technique, and he has been shown to use almost every path, so there should be nothing against using it. The reason against it is that it wasn't used while under Edo Tensei. I think the former is a stronger reason, and also the fact that Madara couldn't use any paths with one Rinnegan, left him with only one choose to incapacitate the beasts quickly, and that was Limbo.

Of course it can't be proven to a 100% certainty. limbo isn't a path's technique, so him using just preta and deva does not imply that he can use limbo. Nagato didn't use limbo, obito didn't use limbo, and MAdara continued to use limbo even when he got both eyes and became the juubi jink. Obito was implied to be capable of using the paths jutsu with only one eye, so the argument about him deciding to use limbo because he only had one eye has zero merit.

If limbo was just used because he had one eye, the technique would not have been given such importance this late in the manga as to get an entire chapter named after it, require sharinnegan sasuke and RSM Naruto to figure out, and blow away all 9 bijuu in an instant.

 

[NeutralChaos]

it's not due to fatigue, it's due to him focusing his power on his 25 clones. It was implied by him trying to jump away from jinton and getting half his body erased rather than just absorb the technique like the many times he's done it before.


Hashirama never said he couldn't, but since when are only truths about this manga derived from explicit statements? Hashirama had every reason to use shinsuusenjuu, as it would have neg diffed Madara's PS, and allowed him to help out against Juubito. The fact that he didn't, yet had great reason to do so implies that he couldn't.


Um, why would EMS Madara desummon Kurama? Desummoning is either a conscious decision by the summoner or the summon. Edo madara has no say in whether kurama gets desummoned or not.


Of course it can't be proven to a 100% certainty. limbo isn't a path's technique, so him using just preta and deva does not imply that he can use limbo. Nagato didn't use limbo, obito didn't use limbo, and MAdara continued to use limbo even when he got both eyes and became the juubi jink. Obito was implied to be capable of using the paths jutsu with only one eye, so the argument about him deciding to use limbo because he only had one eye has zero merit.

If limbo was just used because he had one eye, the technique would not have been given such importance this late in the manga as to get an entire chapter named after it, require sharinnegan sasuke and RSM Naruto to figure out, and blow away all 9 bijuu in an instant.

Nope, the reason was that the technique casted was too large, or he was already caught in it. The path has a limit. Your Hashirama and Buddha statement is just an implication, so I will ignore that. Never said he would de-summon, but if it can in the time limit, then Edo Madara can summon it, therefore de-summoning from EMS Madara. As a joke once, a toad was summoned back to it's place before by another, leaving Naruto stranded. This supports my claim. Since Limbo cannot be proven, I will leave that alone now. The deciding factor in this argument is whether or not Madara should be able to use the golem or not, in which case your argument makes no sense, seeing how I disproved your theory on why Madara could not have absorbed Oonoki's technique.

 

[lanakui8]

Nope, the reason was that the technique casted was too large, or he was already caught in it.

Which make absolutely no sense as madara has absorbed jinton at a far closer distance, while previously being distracted and without issue in addition to the fact that he was in the middle of jumping away, yet got half his body erased which means he had the ability to react to it and jump away, yet he didn't have the ability to absorb it.

The path has a limit. Your Hashirama and Buddha statement is just an implication, so I will ignore that.

Well, if you ignore my argument about hashirama not being able to make the buddah despite having every reason in the world to do so, then it's a concession on your part as an ignored argument is a conceded one.

Never said he would de-summon, but if it can in the time limit, then Edo Madara can summon it, therefore de-summoning from EMS Madara. As a joke once, a toad was summoned back to it's place before by another, leaving Naruto stranded. This supports my claim.

Yet Edo madara can't summon it if its already summoned by someone else which is what my entire argument was based on. Therefore you saying edo madara just summoning it would just be a conclusion supported by no argument and at the same time ignoring my own. When did this joke happen?

Since Limbo cannot be proven, I will leave that alone now. The deciding factor in this argument is whether or not Madara should be able to use the golem or not, in which case your argument makes no sense, seeing how I disproved your theory on why Madara could not have absorbed Oonoki's technique.

Wait a second, you absolutely did not disprove my theory about why madara could not have absorbed the technique. And even if madara could have absorbed the technique, how in the hell do you go from there, to allowing madara to use 25 susanoo clones while using PS, to using mokujin, a mokuton far more powerful than the most powerful mokuton madara has ever used and a mokuton on the level of PS, to using that while using PS at the same time while using 25 susanoo clones?

And even with that, edo madara still gets absolutely destroyed by a shurikendama barrage as it doesn't have output to match such an attack.

 

[KidGamer65]

"given more vitality"..... That in itself is powering a jutsu. KA a rare technique that's usage was very rare and can only be used after decade.. was shortened into a very very small time span.. all because of his dna. For chakra to increase something's vitality, it needs to power up the jutsu.

As seen, from Kurama's chakra the jutsu of other people stronger. =].

No, its not. Its giving more vitality. More stamina. Exactly what it says. Koto's cooldown became smaller because of Hashirama's DNA, it didn't become stronger. Where are you getting the bold from? Not once was that ever said in the manga.

Yeah, Kurama's chakra enhances jutsu. Hashirama's DNA doesn't.

 

[Unorthodox]

all this posting tho lmao

ems madara wins

 

[NeutralChaos]

Which make absolutely no sense as madara has absorbed jinton at a far closer distance, while previously being distracted and without issue in addition to the fact that he was in the middle of jumping away, yet got half his body erased which means he had the ability to react to it and jump away, yet he didn't have the ability to absorb it.


Well, if you ignore my argument about hashirama not being able to make the buddah despite having every reason in the world to do so, then it's a concession on your part as an ignored argument is a conceded one.


Yet Edo madara can't summon it if its already summoned by someone else which is what my entire argument was based on. Therefore you saying edo madara just summoning it would just be a conclusion supported by no argument and at the same time ignoring my own. When did this joke happen?


Wait a second, you absolutely did not disprove my theory about why madara could not have absorbed the technique. And even if madara could have absorbed the technique, how in the hell do you go from there, to allowing madara to use 25 susanoo clones while using PS, to using mokujin, a mokuton far more powerful than the most powerful mokuton madara has ever used and a mokuton on the level of PS, to using that while using PS at the same time while using 25 susanoo clones?

And even with that, edo madara still gets absolutely destroyed by a shurikendama barrage as it doesn't have output to match such an attack.

We are going by facts here. Fact is, is that Madara never exclaimed that he couldn't absorb the technique, nor did he imply it. This, leaving only the factor that he could have used it. I ignored the statement because it is purely your opinion. Whether Hashirama used a technique at a certain time or not in no way certifies him not being able to do it at all. Do you have proof that a person with the same contract cannot summon that creature as well? You have no proof, and once again, it is your pure opinion to think that the same person with the same contract cannot summon his own pet. Whether or not you think the most powerful Edo Tensei could handle that amount of chakra is opinion as well. Creating the clones with susano'o took no noticeable affects on him. Creating some golem made of wood isn't going to do so either, no matter how advance you think it is. The fact is, we've never seen someone unable to handle multiple techniques at the same time, and for a man with infinite chakra, it is even less likely. Spam them however you want, Madara could just create a bunch of wood hands to catch them. All he has to do is make the fingers long enough so that the blades don't reach the palm.

 

[Minator93]

Lel KG is such a failure Lol

Edo Madara takes this with ease.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lel KG is such a failure Lol

Edo Madara takes this with ease.

When you have an argument, you can talk. Until then, follow UchihaNagashi's example. Talk shit and split..Lol

EMS Madara takes this with ease.

 

[genii96]

No, its not. Its giving more vitality. More stamina. Exactly what it says. Koto's cooldown became smaller because of Hashirama's DNA, it didn't become stronger. Where are you getting the bold from? Not once was that ever said in the manga.

Yeah, Kurama's chakra enhances jutsu. Hashirama's DNA doesn't.

orochimaru used hashi's dna to increase the strength of his edo tensei binding,allowing him to bind tobirama who was casually resisting him before.

Kabuto used hashi's dna from yamato to enhance the power of the white zetsus

kabuto absorbed oro's chakra from anko which helped him enhance his edo tensei iirc

also why do you say edo madara cant summon kurama?
Sakura summoned part of karsuya that tsunade summoned

madara summoned gedo out of obito who was its user at that time

summoning an animal dosent stop another person from summoning that animal,nowhere is it said or even hinted. One with a contract can summon his animal at any time. Summoning the animal just brings it to your location,it dosent add any extras,the animal can just as easily be summoned to another location by another person. Seeing as edo madara is basically ems madara,then he just summons kyubi to his own side,or dessumons him. If it actually comes down to a summoning slugfest,the one with senju enhancements will clearly win.

Rather than making 25 v3 susanoos,he just makes 2 ps susanoos,.

Also madara cant hold PS for very long either,contrary to what some fapboys think,he actually didnt use it for a whole day,infact if you were to estimate the time from when he used PS till when hashi punched it in half and his sharingan was deactivated,it wasnt that long
edo madara however has senju cells and is an edo,

 

[KidGamer65]

orochimaru used hashi's dna to increase the strength of his edo tensei binding,allowing him to bind tobirama who was casually resisting him before.

It increased the power of the binding, not the power of any offensive jutsu. Ever. Madara's Susanoo remained the same strength. All his jutsu remained the same as they were when he was alive.

Kabuto used hashi's dna from yamato to enhance the power of the white zetsus

White Zetsu is already made out of Hashirama's DNA, so naturally it'd power them up.

kabuto absorbed oro's chakra from anko which helped him enhance his edo tensei iirc

So? That was Senjutsu chakra, and its Oro's. Not Hashirama's DNA. Irrelevant.

also why do you say edo madara cant summon kurama?
Sakura summoned part of karsuya that tsunade summoned

No, she summoned part of the full Katsuyu from the forest, a different part from

Never said he can't summon it, he just has no access. OP didn't give it to him, but made it clear to give it to EMS Madara, and when he tried to summon it in canon, he failed.

madara summoned gedo out of obito who was its user at that time

Obito wasn't using the Gedo as a summoned beast. It was sealed inside him. Terrible example.

summoning an animal dosent stop another person from summoning that animal,nowhere is it said or even hinted. One with a contract can summon his animal at any time. Summoning the animal just brings it to your location,it dosent add any extras,the animal can just as easily be summoned to another location by another person. Seeing as edo madara is basically ems madara,then he just summons kyubi to his own side,or dessumons him. If it actually comes down to a summoning slugfest,the one with senju enhancements will clearly win.

You guys made the claim, I suggest you back it up with more than "Nothing proves I'm wrong so I'm right"

Rather than making 25 v3 susanoos,he just makes 2 ps susanoos,.

No feats for that buddy.

Also madara cant hold PS for very long either,contrary to what some fapboys think,he actually didnt use it for a whole day,infact if you were to estimate the time from when he used PS till when hashi punched it in half and his sharingan was deactivated,it wasnt that long
edo madara however has senju cells and is an edo,

@bold: Based on what? His usage was short because it got smashed open moments after he called it. Either way, its irrelevant how long he can hold it up, cause once he calls it, it busts Edo Madara's PS open and he gets sealed away.

 

[genii96]

It increased the power of the binding, not the power of any offensive jutsu. Ever. Madara's Susanoo remained the same strength. All his jutsu remained the same as they were when he was alive.


White Zetsu is already made out of Hashirama's DNA, so naturally it'd power them up.


So? That was Senjutsu chakra, and its Oro's. Not Hashirama's DNA. Irrelevant.


No, she summoned part of the full Katsuyu from the forest, a different part from

Never said he can't summon it, he just has no access. OP didn't give it to him, but made it clear to give it to EMS Madara, and when he tried to summon it in canon, he failed.


Obito wasn't using the Gedo as a summoned beast. It was sealed inside him. Terrible example.


You guys made the claim, I suggest you back it up with more than "Nothing proves I'm wrong so I'm right"


No feats for that buddy.



@bold: Based on what? His usage was short because it got smashed open moments after he called it. Either way, its irrelevant how long he can hold it up, cause once he calls it, it busts Edo Madara's PS open and he gets sealed away.

if it increased the power of the binding,then the power of the jutsu also increased,oro's edo tensei became more powerful after using hashirama's cells. Seeing as madara's ps casually held out against senjutsus enhanced wood constructs with alive madara needing kurama to deal with their base versions as well as his sword slash being caught by wood hands,as well as planting 6 chakra rods into the pressure points-something which is difficult to do let alone do in the midst of a battle- into the back of a man using sm that was supposed to be his equal in cqc while in base when alive,i'd say he got quite a boost.

White zetsus existed before madara's grandmother was born. Madara only believed that he made them just like he believed he made black zetsu out of his will. White zetsu is as a result of the IT of kaguya. He,like others was infused with hashi's cells.

Kabuto took oro's chakra to enhance his edo tensei,which means taling the chakra/power of another can be used to increase your techs,he didnt take the senjutsu,he is a snake sage not a cursed seal user. Only few people are compatible with the senjutsu of the cursed seal.


Yea your right about the slug.

So?,as its jinchuriki he was controlling it wasnt he? It is easier to control a beast as its jin than outside ones body

Oh yea, 14 yr old obito with senju cells and a 3t controlled the kyubi,something that madara needed his ems to do,unless you think his 3t is above madara's


edo madara has access to the kyubi because it is his summon,unless OP says otherwise. OP gave ems madara the kyubi to start with,he didnt take away edo madara's contract. He failed because it was sealed in naruto,ems madara would also fail there too. Here it is not sealed


your the one who has to prove he cant dessumon kurama or summon him to his side. Cuz whoever has a contract with an animal can summon him anythime he wants. And yea,going by the manga nothing proves i am wrong here,and nothing proves you right either. If you have some reason why madara cant dessumon an animal he has a contract with you are the one to prove it.


Clones use the originals techs,madara can make clones,what feats are we talking about again?

The fact that he had to turn off his sharingan just shortly after?,and the fact that he couldnt remake it again? Also the fact that he was panting like a dog when he wasnt even looking tired earlier?,its clear PS took a toll on him.