Israel & Gaza Conflict

[ugh]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

I'm sorry but the media is pro-Palestine. Can't you read headlines? I'll give you some by some major newspapers:

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In this link you can see how the author of an article from the Guardian mentions Israel in a pejorative way.


Again, here we have the Indenpendent doing the same thing.

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Here we have a Russian newspaper stating that the Palestines are the clear victims.

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Even the world's biggest magazine, TIME, implies that Israel is run by nazis.

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You - as most people here - are clearly clueless and brainwashed into thinking that Israel is the agressor and Hamas the victim. It's the exact opposite.

Have you elaborated on any of my points that I listed above?

 

[trick master]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

Have you elaborated on any of my points that I listed above?

Yes. You clueless individual uncapable of logical thought.

 

[trick master]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

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Just to mention a few.

 

[trick master]

Re: Israel Attack Gaza because they don't want to be friends with israel....

What are you talking about? Israel started the aggression so long before Hamas and the missiles, there was already "war".

Are you retarded?

They were at war but they had a truce, think of what we have in the Korean penninsula today.

Hamas broke the truce and thus it wasn't Israel that started the agression.

 

[Avani 🥉]

Mod Break by Ira

Please try to be objective and do not spam this thread with random comments. As it's very sensitive subject. While we do not want to shun the topic altogether, we do not want ill feelings among members of the base because of it. ( anime forum guys. We are not a political platform for personal agendas). Secondly please do not reply the points raised in here in new threads. If you have something to say on this topic, do it here only.

 

[ugh]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

Yes. You clueless individual uncapable of logical thought.

Care to tell me how many Israelis have died ?
Care to tell me how many Palestinians have died ?

 

[6ari8]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

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Just to mention a few.

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Notice what is happening during the so called "cease-fire" times. Also:

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This shows who breaks those cease times more.

 

[trick master]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

Care to tell me how many Israelis have died ?
Care to tell me hoe many Palestinians have died ?

Surely. 21,500 civilian personell have been killed from both sides since 1948. From these, over 15,000 are israeli and 6,500 are palestine, according to wikipedia. keep that in mind everytime you pray for one of these palestine victims.

 

[Avani 🥉]

Re: Why can't Israel defend itself?

Care to tell me how many Israelis have died ?
Care to tell me how many Palestinians have died ?

No idea. About that kind of data - it only tells us which side shouldn't start the war and should accept the truce if they can get it. If a cyclist decides to collide with a truck then it's kind of odd if he complains that the truck broke it. In such a case he is expecting truck driver to be nicer or more responsible than himself. That's totally relying on other person- someone they probably don't even trust.

Why can't both sides sit and compromise? And give their next generation a chance to live in peace instead of struggle if they can avoid it..

 

[ugh]

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Please, take a look at this Website.

 

[Avani 🥉]

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Please, take a look at this Website.

What am I suppose to do with that data? Why they do refuse to accept the truce( to a war they started) and insist on fighting if they are losing that badly?

You got definition of retaliation all wrong in there.

You throw a punch - I would block it if I can. If I am irritated enough and capable of it you may get harsher blow back. You can get more than one blow if I think it may make you hesitant to pick on me again. Unfair maybe but realistic. But if you are again coming back to attack saying "hey I could land only one blow while you got three so I must make up" - you are not retaliating - you are starting a new fight.


You think since your side lost more people you should kill as many on the other or it won't be equalized.. ( what's with that cave days logic but whatever) Then you attack again and ---- the story is repeated. So your death toll increases... and the cycle goes on... If you expect the other side to sit like dodo and kill them off in numbers then that's beyond logic that they would accept it. You wouldn't accept that kind of preposition yourself if the tables were turned either nor I will ask you to.

If you stop thinking in terms of which side died more but see all dead as human beings and try to address the cause as of now and solution to the problem then only it may end. That would reduce body count on both sides.

 

[ugh]

Its not about who has more kills or deaths, I simply posted that link in response to another user.
Its the methods they are using.
When one is claiming that the Israels are the Victims and the Palestinians are the oppressors i find that to be an absurd statement.

Was there a need to use Chemical weapons?
was there a need to kill the womenfolk ?
was there a need to kill children ?
Why were they torturing ?
Bombing schools?

This war was not caused by the Palestinians, rather quite the opposite, though i understand and fail to realize why they did not accept the truce.

if i were to kill 1000 of your men, and then someone were to attack me, and i would end up killing 1000 of his men too. later just sending a ceasefire agreement. Will that be justice? what about all those people killed? did they die for nothing? WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN ANY OF THIS???

This is just one occasion of the Palestinians refusing the treaty. How many time have the Israelis refused a ceasefire ?
I am not saying since you killed 100 of my men, i will kill 100 of your men, i am saying why are you people saying the Palestinians are the oppressors??
I am not a Palestinian but I am Very sympathetic towards them.

 

[Avani 🥉]

Its not about who has more kills or deaths, I simply posted that link in response to another user.
Its the methods they are using.
When one is claiming that the Israels are the Victims and the Palestinians are the oppressors i find that to be an absurd statement.

Was there a need to use Chemical weapons?
was there a need to kill the womenfolk ?
was there a need to kill children ?
Why were they torturing ?
Bombing schools?


This war was not caused by the Palestinians, rather quite the opposite, though i understand and fail to realize why they did not accept the truce.

if i were to kill 1000 of your men, and then someone were to attack me, and i would end up killing 1000 of his men too. later just sending a ceasefire agreement. Will that be justice? what about all those people killed? did they die for nothing? WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN ANY OF THIS???

This is just one occasion of the Palestinians refusing the treaty. How many time have the Israelis refused a ceasefire ?
I am not saying since you killed 100 of my men, i will kill 100 of your men, i am saying why are you people saying the Palestinians are the oppressors??
I am not a Palestinian but I am Very sympathetic towards them.

Did they use chemical weapons? What kind?
Do you think only adult men die in war?

Sad as it is these are the realities of war. Civilians should be spared of course but other side can always claim civilian spots being used as a front so it becomes tricky.

If they are torturing or using prohibited weapons- then I guess you can make a case in international court against them but even for that you need to stop fighting first.

I can empathizes with your reasons and anger if that's the case, you see. In last Kargil war - ( when we found out Pakistani army had taken control of some of our peaks) some of our army men were kidnapped. When bodies were returned we learned the horrible torture they had been through- the injuries the mutilated bodies had on them were received before death. And no the nails were not the only thing pulled out. Rest is just too much to detail.

But asking " why" was rather pointless... they got them alone and caught them and did whatever they felt like just because the one involved in it were really bad people. Should we have attacked Pakistan for that reason?

India was divided into three parts in 1947- on religious ground- for a religion which was not native but brought by invaders and often forced conversions and mass murders. The other party got more than their share if it were decided on the basis of whole population % and yet they almost wiped of the people of other religion on their own side. On the other hand India is one of the nations ( second? not sure if we crossed Indonesia's population already) with the biggest population of Muslims despite what was done to Hindus on the other side of the border.

And we try our best to live in peace and harmony with every Indian in here and in a secular state. Whatever might happen in neighborliness countries the people on our land are not responsible for it be it any religion. Instead of focusing on negativity, we have cultivated a mixed culture in which everyone one has contributed and we all are proud of it as Indians.

We were in really bad condition when India got freedom- destroyed economy and poor industrial status after centuries of foreign rule and on top of it millions of refugees and dead bodies to take care of. Today we have left most of it behind. We are still dealing with some after effects but we are looking to the future not past. We haven't started any war though we have ended them.

Where do you think we would be if we tried to settle score by numbers or kept mourning over injustice of it all? I'm sure Pakistanis may have something to say(For blood shed was not always one sided. ) on that too but if we start a quarrel over it would there be any benefit? Or would it be better if we can put differences aside and avoid more pointless deaths?

Justice is subjective and relative. Is it justice to endanger your kids because of past if you can avoid it? It would be best if we can have it here but since both sides involved believe in God- shouldn't they let him deal with justice and in the mean time live as the best human they can be?

I'm not sympathetic to either side. But I am talking of practical solutions for moving on.

 

[ugh]

Let me just tell you.

Israel intentionally targets and murders civilians, including children, in masses.

Israel also kidnaps and tortures children, including by keeping them in outdoor cages, over night, in winter.

But, even ignoring international law and that Gaza is under illegal Israeli occupation, Gaza did not initiate this current round of violence; Israel did:

Western/US/Israeli propaganda says the violence started with the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli youths on June 12th. That is a lie:

On May 20th, the Israeli government murdered 2 unarmed Palestinian teens, one on video, and wounded a third.

The firing of pathetic scrap metal rockets from impoverished Gaza, which have killed no one, were in fact launched in response to earlier Israeli bombings, killings, assassinations, and arrests of Palestinians, including children.

Since the year 2000, Israel has killed 1,500 Palestinian children, while Palestinians have killed 132 Israeli children. That means Israel has killed over 1,000% percent more Palestinian children than vice versa.

As documented by the Washington DC based non-Profit, The Jerusalem Fund, Israel breaks far more ceasefires than Palestine – this includes firing of the Palestinian scrap metal rockets.

For example, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and many other human rights organizations reported that in Israel’s 2009 Gaza Massacre, Israel killed about 450 children, and it was Israel, they documented, that broke the ceasefire. (In that massacre, Israel killed overall from 1,400 to 7,000 Palestinians, almost all civilians, while 13 Israelis were killed, several from friendly fire.)

According to a landmark, comprehensive study of all of Israel’s wars, by Zeev Maoz, Professor of Political Science at the University of California, Davis, former head of the Graduate School of Government and Policy and of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, and former academic director of the M.A. Program at the Israeli Defense Forces’ National Defense College:

“. most of the wars in which Israel was involved were the result of deliberate Israeli aggressive design . None of these wars – with the possible exception of the 1948 War of independence – was what Israel refers to as Milhemet Ein Berah (war of necessity). They were all wars of choice . ” – Defending the Holy Land, pg. 35, (bold added)

“I review a number of peace-related opportunities ranging from the Zionist-Hashemite collusion in 1947 through the collapse of the Oslo Process in 2000. In all those cases I find that Israeli decision makers – who had been willing to embark upon bold and daring military adventures – were extremely reluctant to make even the smallest concessions for peace . I also find in many cases Israel was engaged in systematic violations of agreements and tacit understandings between itself and its neighbors.” – Defending the Holy Land, pg. 40

Israel has violated more UN resolutions than any other country. That includes Iraq under Hussein.

Hamas is the government elected by Gaza in elections that Jimmy Carter (and many others) observed and said were completely fair and free. Israel constantly says Hamas uses human shields. But in Israel’s biggest massacre of Gaza, the one in 2009, all the human rights organizations, including Amnesty, HRW, and the jurist Richard Goldstone, found that Hamas DID NOT use human shields. On the contrary, Israel used human shields, which is a regular practice for Israel. Israel uses civilians as human shields.

Israel forced Palestinian civilians to dig and lay naked in trenches around Israeli tanks.

But, What you're asking for, is to let the fighting and killing continue while they wait for God to settle it? 'Prevention is better than Cure' - if we can prevent whats going on isn't that better? The UN has more than ample amount of Military force to end this war. Why are they doing Nothing. ??

On top of that people are claiming Palestine is the one oppressing :'( ? really, can you with the full conviction of your heart say that this unorganized group of civilians are the ones who are oppressing ???

Whether you believe in God or not is up to you. Is it fine to just sit here and say 'Better them than me?'
The least we can do is create an awareness, but when we try to do that, people claim Palestinians are the ones oppressing?

Say someone killed your brother. (General) do you go and kill there whole family ? You'd be pulling a Madara on us there ?

 

[ugh]

You asked about Chemical weapons.

The Palestinian ministry of health revealed on Monday that the Israeli army has used a new type of explosive in its offensive on the Gaza Strip. These explosives contain toxics and radioactive materials which burn and tear the victim’s body from the inside and leave long term deformations.

The ministry called upon the international community and the humanitarian organizations to send an international medical community to examine the victims and confirm the truth about these banned weapons that Israel appears to be using.

The ministry showed that most of the injuries which the hospitals receive result from huge explosions which cause burning and severing of limbs, including the inner parts of the body. This causes long term deformations.

It is added that doctors in Gaza have been forced to amputate limbs of at least 12 injured Palestinians as a result of injuries sustained in the current Israeli offensive on the Strip.

But you wouldn't believe this, because the media has said otherwise ?

 

[Avani 🥉]

,snip.

The point remains - can you end it if you continue fighting without wiping yourself in this situation?

Refusing ceasefire and continuing the fight in such a dire condition as you described is suicide. To expect help from international organizations means you would have to listen their conditions too. International laws are not that binding on any country if those countries refuse to be bound by them.

Palestine has been used and exploited by it's neighboring countries too. I am not sure why they don't but I think they might need to think only for themselves as a community rather than part of a larger war and agenda.

You asked about Chemical weapons.

The Palestinian ministry of health revealed on Monday that the Israeli army has used a new type of explosive in its offensive on the Gaza Strip. These explosives contain toxics and radioactive materials which burn and tear the victim’s body from the inside and leave long term deformations.

The ministry called upon the international community and the humanitarian organizations to send an international medical community to examine the victims and confirm the truth about these banned weapons that Israel appears to be using.

The ministry showed that most of the injuries which the hospitals receive result from huge explosions which cause burning and severing of limbs, including the inner parts of the body. This causes long term deformations.

It is added that doctors in Gaza have been forced to amputate limbs of at least 12 injured Palestinians as a result of injuries sustained in the current Israeli offensive on the Strip.

But you wouldn't believe this, because the media has said otherwise ?

In that case I hope UN is already putting pressure on Israel and will sort it something out about that. Pressurize it to stop such attacks. Make them pay for compensation and rehabilitation etc and deal with them in International court if need be. But it would make it harder to stop war itself if other side kept attacking. I am not being stubborn about the issue- I am just pointing out worst scenario in international cases.

 

[ugh]

So why are you condemning the creation of awareness?
And why have i been Quoted as saying ',snip.'

I am not inciting a group of warmongers going from every country and killing more people resulting in more and more bloodshed.
Every life is sacred, and should not be wasted for the cause of war.

But providing support to the Palestinians, is that so wrong?
Getting people to know the truth, rather than what the media has been feeding them, is that so wrong?
Gaining some sympathy for those people? is that so wrong?

yes, granted it is a very controversial topic, and you may not agree with anything i say, this is just a means of showing people what is really going on out there. I ask you again, Do You Believe The Palestinians Are The Oppressors?

 

[Avani 🥉]

So why are you condemning the creation of awareness?
And why have i been Quoted as saying ',snip.'

I am not inciting a group of warmongers going from every country and killing more people resulting in more and more bloodshed.
Every life is sacred, and should not be wasted for the cause of war.

But providing support to the Palestinians, is that so wrong?
Getting people to know the truth, rather than what the media has been feeding them, is that so wrong?
Gaining some sympathy for those people? is that so wrong?

yes, granted it is a very controversial topic, and you may not agree with anything i say, this is just a means of showing people what is really going on out there. I ask you again, Do You Believe The Palestinians Are The Oppressors?

What's up with this response?

You ignored my point altogether and just insisting on your agenda of awareness. Even if I am aware of it - I can do nothing about it. I can say yea it's very bad and how I condemn Israel and sure collect some rep on an anime forum for siding with a large group on the forum. It costs me nothing but gets me good PR.

I put in 'snip' because I didn't feel like quoting that wallie which is probably a copy paste anyway. Or you type too fast. The post is still visible isn't it? It's not like I deleted your awareness post.

Do you realize what the information you provide is also from media or you were there on the site? You got the info from a source you rely on and trust. Isn't it? I am not saying it's wrong. I won't be surprised if Israel pulled such a trick and I agree that they should be forced to take responsibility for it in such a case. But it's funny that you are using media for yourself and at the same time implying media itself is not trustworthy.

As for who is oppressor - of course the winning side would be the one isn't it? If you are lsoing, you cannot oppress even if you want to. So that question is really not that important by itself.

Maybe I was returning the favour and wanted you to be aware of the solutions to it, too in a larger picture. *shurg*

I am really not getting into more than this. I was trying to be constructive about the whole issue and how exactly it can be avoided in future but your focus is only on getting sympathy. Well you got it. Happy?

 

[ugh]

About your response to the media propaganda, i doubt you would have known all this without researching Personally, the content that i have provided were not showcased on Majoring Media sites/Channels. Though it being out there, why is it not being shown unless you personally try and find it. ~All Media is not bad, The truth is out there, but why the extra work for this matter~

Personally i doubt anyone who has just been watching mainstream news sites would have known any of the information i had provided.




That aside.
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Its been nice talking to you, i didn't mean to sound like a pestered ignorant fool, its just what that user said;

'You - as most people here - are clearly clueless and brainwashed into thinking that Israel is the agressor and Hamas the victim. It's the exact opposite'

In all honesty i was surprised to see people saying this, you can't blame me for reacting the way i did

I am not saying that you are wrong, or anything, i fully understand what you are doing/trying to do.

creating an awareness can be done anywhere, if even if a small portion of this community gained some knowledge from what this thread has been made to do, then so be it, that is the main purpose for all of this.

''Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes''

 

[Avani 🥉]

Well its been nice talking to you, i didn't mean to sound like a pestered ignorant fool, its just what that user said;

'You - as most people here - are clearly clueless and brainwashed into thinking that Israel is the agressor and Hamas the victim. It's the exact opposite'

In all honesty i was surprised to see people saying this, you can't blame me for reacting the way i did

I am not saying that you are wrong, or anything, i fully understand what you are doing/trying to do.

creating an awareness can be done anywhere, if even if a small portion of this community gained some knowledge from what this thread has been made to do, then so be it, that is the main purpose for all of this.

''Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes''

Aggression too is often a relative term. If you shift focus from on point to another it becomes hard to differentiate. At forums like ours people come with a set idea and hardly anyone ever changes their view upon on neutral topics. You can see that in minor things like pairing wars even. But being too forceful about info is also sometime aggression.

As for info itself yea ok. I might have read it myself at some other place if I was not wasting time typing replies to you here.

And now that I checked :

Hamas and other Palestinian factions agreed to halt rocket firing into Israel for five hours Thursday in response to a proposal by the UN, Xinhua quoted the official as saying on condition of anonymity. He added that the movement "will respond to any Israeli attacks on Gaza during the pause".

Earlier on Wednesday night, Israel Defence Forces (IDF) said it will enable a humanitarian window in Gaza between 10 am to 3 pm on Thursday, as a result of a dialogue with the UN. But it also added that if Hamas fires rockets at Israel during the humanitarian window, the IDF will respond with force.


:

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Let's hope it works out.