EMS Sasuke + BSM Naruto VS EMS Madara + Full Kurama

lucario14

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EMS Sasuke + BSM Naruto VS EMS Madara + Full Kurama

Location: Konoha village
Distance: Madara is at the front gates, sasuke and naruto are at hokage HQ
Restrictions: Summons, izanagi, izanami.
Scenario: Every villager has escaped but madara plans on destroying the village anyway.
 

ARGUS

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naruto and sasukes PS+Kyuubi comfortably wins this

--Narutos 50% kyuubi in only BM, managed to fight off against 5 bijuu,, meaning that his kyuubi is stronger than the Full Kyuubi that madara has, on top of the fact that he is amplified by SM

--Naruto and Sasuke both have 2 layers of defense (PS and kurama avatar) as opposed to Madara only having the PS armor on his kyuubi,,meaning that even if Sasukes PS cant take the DC of madara,, there is still narutos kyuubi and sasukes PS can still allow naruto to fire off Super TBBs larger than the PS itself to destroy it,, or barrages of TBBs can be used,,

--Once PS is destroyed (which will definitely happen), Sasuke can set the Kyuubi ablaze with Amaterasu, as the jutsu is the worst fkn nightmare for kurama
 

lucario14

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Madara starts with his PS already coated on his Kyuubi or not?
He starts off like he does so no.


Narutos 50% kyuubi in only BM, managed to fight off against 5 bijuu,, meaning that his kyuubi is stronger than the Full Kyuubi that madara has, on top of the fact that he is amplified by SM
How do you know that kurama won't be able to do the same by itself?
 
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AlphaScythian

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Sasuke and nardo win.
BSM form is stronger then real kurama and enton spam will damage PS and kurama
Potentially sasuke could even brake madara's control over kurama with genjutsu.
 

ARGUS

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How do you know that kurama won't be able to do the same by itself?
because by feats Narutos 50% Kyuubi is stronger than Full Kyuubi,,
here are the TBBs from Fulll Kyuubi,
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Full Kyuubis TBBs are slightly stronger than an average bijuus,,
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Narutos BM, level firepower, matched 5 bijuu, and had the firepower to completely dwarf the mountains,
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and this TBB, (whilst its aided a bit with Hachibi), can still be formed by Naruto, and the PS (that is enhanced with kyuubis chakra) would allow naruto long enough to form this TBB, and overcome madaras PS
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and now add in the boost of SM from Naruto, and his firepower is much higher than Full Kyuubi,
on top of the fact that Perfect Jin > Bijuu,

they will destroy Madaras PS, and from then on, Sasuke can set the kyuubi ablaze with amaterasu/entons
 
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warlee

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Bsm naruto has better firepower display than madaras kyuubi and naruto can add clones that can fire oodama frs and ems sasuke can even wrestle control from madara.
 

lanakui8

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BSM Naruto can make bijuudamas far more powerful than BM Naruto's since senjutsu massively powers up techniques. PS isn't withstanding a senpou super bijuudama and neither is 100% Kurama implied to be capable of such powerful bijuudamas.
Naruto and Sasuke's Kyuusanoo is far more durable than Madara's as Sasuke's PS is powered by BSM Naruto's chakras, and the BM avatar has blocked attacks from the juubi which is something that I doubt 100% Kurama could do without the same amount of damage. Mdara's kyuusanoo is probably a lot less mobile due to being so much larger and not being enhanced by senjutsu + BM Naruto being a lot more mobile than 100% Kurama, and MAdara's kyuusanoo is a much bigger target.

then there's the fact that Naruto can have high level clones (BSM/BM/KSM/KM) in his tails firing off nukes like FRS, COFRS, SM COFRS, bijuurasengan while all this is going on. So Naruto and Sasuke should land a lot more hits on kyuusanoo than the other way around, can probably take more hits than Madara's kyuusanoo, and unlike 100% Kurama, NAruto and Sasuke can reform their constructs if they are destroyed while the living flesh and blood kyuubi can't. Naruto and Sasuke block with tails + PS arms+sword and fire enhanced by senjutsu GG.

Naruto and Sasuke should high diff this.
 
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Bronze

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Naruto is not stronger than 100% Kurama at Madara's control. Naruto in Bijuu mode was drained from Mokuton Mokuryou, while 100% Kurama destroyed it effortlessly at Madara's command. Madara has better control because:

1). He can input more fire-power and defense.
2). Full Kurama possess the combined Chakra of Yin and Yang.

Sasuke is not worth mentioning. He barely has feats of PS which doesn't compare to Madara, who is multi-mountain destroyer. Madara ends their pathetic lives with this:

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The AOE destroyed an island.​
 

lanakui8

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Naruto is not stronger than 100% Kurama at Madara's control. Naruto in Bijuu mode was drained from Mokuton Mokuryou, while 100% Kurama destroyed it effortlessly at Madara's command.​

Naruto saw mokuryu for the first time and tried to wrestle with it, Madara fought hashirama many times, and therefore knew not to wrestle the dragon but to finish it off quickly with ninjutsu. This is proven by madara explicitly stating that

With knowledge BM Naruto fodderized mokuryu with bijuudama, giant rasengan, or frs from a clone.

BM Naruto > 100% Kurama under madara's control.

Madara has better control because:

1). He can input more fire-power and defense.
2). Full Kurama possess the combined Chakra of Yin and Yang.
That doesn't have anything to do with his ability to control 100% Kurama.

Sasuke is not worth mentioning. He barely has feats of PS which doesn't compare to Madara, who is multi-mountain destroyer.
Madara's PS isn't a multi-mountain destroyer, it's a multi-mountain cutter. The mountains are still there after madara cuts them, they are just shorter than they were before.

Madara ends their pathetic lives with this:
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The AOE destroyed an island.
What are you talking about? was barely stronger than or the Unless of course you believe that anime > manga, and that Kyuusanoo was as big as shinsuusenjuu as well.

and that's not going to do much against a senpou Kyuusanoo when BM Naruto alone can block

Sasuke and Naruto block Madara's attacks with their senjutsu kyuusanoo tails and end him with powered up by senjutsu.
 
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Bronze

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All of your TBB argument have been debunked before, and you didn't reply to me on that thread. And until I see the AOE of Senjutsu TBB, I have no reason to believe they're going to destroy Madara's PS or overpower full Kurama's.

Naruto saw mokuryu for the first time and tried to wrestle with it, Madara fought hashirama many times, and therefore knew not to wrestle the dragon but to finish it off quickly with ninjutsu. This is proven by madara explicitly stating that mokuryu had bound 100% Kurama under madara's control.

With knowledge BM Naruto fodderized mokuryu with bijuudama, giant rasengan, or frs from a clone.

BM Naruto > 100% Kurama under madara's control.
LMFAO, using Madara's statement. We seen the fight, and Madara had it destroyed low diff. [ ]. Speculation; you don't know whether the times Madara fought Hashirama who used Mokuryou. I am not going to use fan-assumption. Knowledge is not going to help Naruto. His TBB is even weaker than full Kurama due to the size being smaller. He gets bounded low diff as canonically shown.

That doesn't have anything to do with his ability to control 100% Kurama.
Learn what control means. Madara through controlling Kurama can combine his own attacks to increase Kurama's capabilities.

Madara's control over Kurama > Naruto's, and he shits on the two.​
 

lanakui8

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All of your TBB argument have been debunked before, and you didn't reply to me on that thread. And until I see the AOE of Senjutsu TBB, I have no reason to believe they're going to destroy Madara's PS or overpower full Kurama's.

Show me the thread and ill bring the fight here.

Other than that, the bolded is ridiculously biased and fallacious as not seeing the AoE of a senjutsu TBB would only mean we don't know EXACTLY how powerful it is. However, it in no way implies that Madara's PS or full Kurama WOULD be able to withstand it or overpower it.

And we have good reason to believe that Madara's PS can't even withstand BM NAruto's non senpou bijuudama as all the evidence is against PS withstanding a direct hit from a TBB as large as the construct itself. the force that destroyed PS at VoTe was only or the equivalent of about 13 normal bijuudamas and that isn't as large as what BM Naruto's bijuudama.

Senjutsu is explicitly stated to massively powerup all techniques that it's applied to, unless you provide some kind of argument for why it wouldn't give a TBB a massive powerup as well, then a TBB gets powered up.


LMFAO, using Madara's statement. We seen the fight, and Madara had it destroyed low diff. [ ]. Speculation; you don't know whether the times Madara fought Hashirama who used Mokuryou. I am not going to use fan-assumption. Knowledge is not going to help Naruto. His TBB is even weaker than full Kurama due to the size being smaller. He gets bounded low diff as canonically shown.
This is a flat out concession on your part.
We have an explicit statement that mokuryu bound 100% Kurama under madara's control in the past. We know madara fought Hashirama many times in the past and that Madara defeated it low diff during their last confrontation. That means it is necessarily true that Hashirama fought madara with mokuryu in the past and bound 100% Kurama then. You asserting that i'm speculating is flat out false, completely against what the manga tells us, and is far worse than a fan assumption as you're not making assumptions based on lack of information, you are making an assumption that goes against what the manga explicitly states.

BM Naruto doesn't even need a TBB to destroy mokuryu as the dragon was shattered by a bijuudama merely traveling into it and BM Naruto shattered the dragon's face with just his shunshin. FRS or a gigantic rasengan would easily destroy the dragon. And then there's the fact that BM Naruto can fire TBBs that make the one 100% Kurama fired against mokuryu look like a joke. So nope.


Learn what control means. Madara through controlling Kurama can combine his own attacks to increase Kurama's capabilities.
You learn what control means. Madara combining his attacks with kuramas by just jamming his PS blade into a bijuudama isn't a control feat, the only control he's showing is having the ability to make kurama use a bijuudama. Coating PS and putting a sword into the dama has nothing to do with controlling the beast.

Madara's control over Kurama > Naruto's, and he shits on the two.
by no logical reasoning would anyone come to that conclusion. PS is not taking a bijuudama that's as big as the construct itself, nor is it taking that bijuudama powered up by senjutsu.

Madara's attacks are also not going to do much against a chakra construct that's way more durable than the one that blocked the Juubi's laser as madara doesn't have firepower on the level of a mountainrange+ laser with a single attack. Naruto and Sasuke win high diff.
 

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1). Again what the shitty Senjutsu argument. Go get me scans of its AOE. PS at unstabalized form tanked a direct 100% TBB from full Kurama effortlessly. GO GET ME SCANS. If you don't do that (which you wont as there is no scans), then I will ignore it as you cant provide evidence.

2). Oh my god. I just brought a scan of Kurama not being suppressed or bounded by 100% Kurama, and this kid still denying what is shown. Naruto cant form Chakra when it's being absorbed by the Mokuryou.

3). A mini-PS tanked a combined 11 TBB+PS blades, as well as Shinsuusenju's attacks. So I have no reason to believe that Naruto will destroy it, as his arsenal is not comparable to the AOE that PS tanked. I debunked your shitty BM tanking Juubi's attack.​
 

lanakui8

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You didn't even post in that thread, and I didn't even have a discussion with you, so why does that show anything?

1). Again what the shitty Senjutsu argument. Go get me scans of its AOE. PS at unstabalized form tanked a direct 100% TBB from full Kurama effortlessly. GO GET ME SCANS. If you don't do that (which you wont as there is no scans), then I will ignore it as you cant provide evidence.
Concession accepted as i've conclusively shown why I don't need to get scans of senjutsu enhancing a tbb in order for us to conclude that a TBB's power would greatly increase as senjutsu was explicitly stated to power up every technique. If you want an idea of how much more powerful it will get due to senjutsu, the difference between a and would probably be the difference.

lacking a scan of a super bijuudama being powered up by senjutsu in no way shape or form implies that a super bijuudama wouldn't get more powerful if it was enhanced by senjutsu, all it means is that we don't know exactly how much it would be powered up by senjutsu.

I've given you an argument based on evidence from the manga about how much more powerful a senpou bijuudama would be than a regular bijuudama. Now how powerful do you think a senpou bijuudama would be compared to a bijuudama and based on what evidence?

a bijuudama coming from 100% kurama is irrelevant if that bijuudama is only as powerful and produces a blast as big as a standard bijuudama from any of the other bijuus. unstabalized PS also didn't in tank that attack as the dama didn't hit PS directly, PS blocked it with its swords and by the time the smoke cleared PS had leveled up into its stabalized form which would have repaired any damage that the bijuudama did to the construct like how sasuke's ribcage gets fully repaired when he goes from to

2). Oh my god. I just brought a scan of Kurama not being suppressed or bounded by 100% Kurama, and this kid still denying what is shown. Naruto cant form Chakra when it's being absorbed by the Mokuryou.
Concession accepted once again, as you've completely ignored my arguments which conclusively prove that Madara fought Hashirama before and therefore in one of his earlier battles, mokuryu bound 100% Kurama under madara's control.
Mokuryu never absorbs naruto's chakra if he has knowledge on it, he blasts it to pieces with a FRS, giant rasengan or bijuudama before it bites him.
And naruto can form chakra while its being absorbed as he used shunshin and used a kagebunshin while mokuryu was absorbing it.

3). A mini-PS tanked a combined 11 TBB+PS blades, as well as Shinsuusenju's attacks. So I have no reason to believe that Naruto will destroy it, as his arsenal is not comparable to the AOE that PS tanked. I debunked your shitty BM tanking Juubi's attack.
A mini-PS absolutely did not tank a combined 11 TBB+PS blades. Madara was using his fully sized PS to coat kurama, the TBB+PS blades traveled and exploded outward just like naruto's senpou bijuudama did . The TBBs were creating half of the explosion while Shinsuusenjuu's fists hitting Kyuusanoo and the ground were creating the other half, proven by where we see the shurikendamas cutting and exploding outwardly and where we see shinsuusenjuu's punches generating explosions going to the left. in both scans we never see bijuudama explosions touching PS.

BSM Naruto absolutely destroys that as senjutsu massively increases the power of his bijuudamas, we know that , and we know when BM Naruto and bee fire their max bijuudama,

Therefore since BM Naruto contributed most of the power to that bijuudama and senjutsu at least doubles the power of a technique, then BSM NAruto's max bijuudama > BM Naruto + Bee's max bijuudama > PS.

I have no idea how you can 'debunk' BM Naruto blocking the juubi's laser as that happened on panel for anyone with eyes to see and we know how powerful it is since it overpowered 9 bijuudamas without losing strength and vaporized a mountain range while continuing offpanel.

Finally, madara was using his full sized susanoo to coat kurama as and PS is , if you take into account Kurama's total size which includes its tails, it would require madara's full PS in order to cloak it.


So once again, BSM Naruto's super bijuudama > PS, BSM Naruto + Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo >> BM Naruto > Juubi's laser >> TBB Sword. Naruto and Sasuke win high diff.
 
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