Why do people treat all rasengan variants as the same jutsu?

[Shadow Phantasm]

When a jutsu is given a chakra nature it fundamentally changes the overall composition of it and how it work.

There an obviously difference in chakra composition from the rasengan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And a Rasengan variant:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Both have a base, but the change in Nature radically alters the scope of their power and destruction.

It's still the technique though,you're just adding a different effect to it.

 

[chaos control]

If it's derived from the original then that argument can be made.

Not quite. If anything, the original is more so the parent technique. Think about this:

You derive from your parents, but are you your parents? No. You are you.

In a battle, if you need to seal an opponent, a base rasengan won't cut it even if you use the logic that it is all the same jutsu just because it has the same base.

A magnet rasengan however, will do the job.

It is all about effects here. This is why you might as well consider it a different jutsu.

That hot dog analogy needs to be modified.

It is not just putting condiments on the hot dog.

It is more like this:

Base rasengan is like a pork hotdog while lava is like a beef one and wind is like a turkey one, etc...

Yes they are all called hot dogs and they look the same in terms of shape, but at the end of the day, they have different nutritional statistics, flavors and effects on the person that consumes them. Therefore, they are fit to be called different foods.

 

[shadowcb]

First of all that last part would be false.

Second what exactly is the difference between Naruto adding a element to the Rasengan from a normal one?Nothing.

well I was already acknowledging that since the ''wind arc'' but even if I didn't- it is redundant still,
since the penultimate shape manipulation is identical to the nature manipulation counterpart.

since then, the ''rasenshuriken'' has done nothing but change ''color'' aside from new attack phrases & names

By changes the size, adding an element, or adding an addition shape to the rasengan you can greatly alter the jutsu range, property, power output, and effect.

EI:
-Rasengan - close range jutsu that rips and grinds through it target before release an explosive wave of energy through it's target. Can also be used to propel opponents.
-Great rasengan and other large rasengan - a larger and more powerful rasengan that has more range and creates a larger AOE. It can be used it in a defensively to stop attacks.
-Planetary Rasengan - the only rasengan and jutsu in the manga that effects the edo regeneration ability
-Wind rasengan - a wind jutsu that can be combined with a water jutsu to create a completely new jutsu.
-FRS - all range wind jutsu that cuts on a cellular leveal
-LRS - long range lava jutsu that cuts and burns it traget. The lava sticks to its target and continues to burn after the jutsu has ended
-Magnet rasengan - Sealing jutsu

As you can see those rasengan variants are not the same. Saying those are the same jutsu is like saying every offensive jutsu in the manga is the same because it's design to damage or destroy its target.

@The eagle
Do you believe every single lightning jutsu in the manga is the same because its created from lightning because that's the impression I'm getting from you from reading your post.

 

[lelerskates]

Why so butthurt. I only say it to rustle your jimmies fapkid. Naruto fights with his friends. It makes him strong

You have the mental capacity of a goldfish. That is all.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

You have the mental capacity of a goldfish. That is all.

:|:| Ignore him, he's not contributing.

 

[V h o]

Technically it is not the same jutsu, but is made up/structured from the rasengan.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

By changes the size, adding an element, or adding an addition shape to the rasengan you can greatly alter the jutsu range, property, power output, and effect.

EI:
-Rasengan - close range jutsu that rips and grinds through it target before release an explosive wave of energy through it's target. Can also be used to propel opponents.
-Great rasengan and other large rasengan - a larger and more powerful rasengan that has more range and creates a larger AOE. It can be used it in a defensively to stop attacks.
-Planetary Rasengan - the only rasengan and jutsu in the manga that effects the edo regeneration ability
-Wind rasengan - a wind jutsu that can be combined with a water jutsu to create a completely new jutsu.
-FRS - all range wind jutsu that cuts on a cellular leveal
-LRS - long range lava jutsu that cuts and burns it traget. The lava sticks to its target and continues to burn after the jutsu has ended
-Magnet rasengan - Sealing jutsu

As you can see those rasengan variants are not the same. Saying those are the same jutsu is like saying every offensive jutsu in the manga is the same because it's design to damage or destroy its target.

@The eagle
Do you believe every single lightning jutsu in the manga is the same because its created from lightning.

No,but if you were to ask me if I think the Chidori variants are the same because they came from the original, then the answer would be a resounding "yes".

My answer is the same for the Rasengan and it's variants as well,you can add different chakra natures and even effects, but in the end you're still using a Rasengan.

 

[super yang]

I wouldn't even call them rasengan ''variants'' either, since any change in effectsis only dependent on the nature choice. a premeditation.
a variant should have more than cosmetic differences...

its like saying all bunshins variants are different jutsu. that's just a paradox

 

[WalksInShadows]

Gudoudama Rasenshuriken? Is that even real?

​

​

It actually went un-named, but I am referring to the time when Naruto used his truth seeking balls as rasenshurikens and destroyed the meteors.

Naruto literally calls it

You must be registered for see links

the first time he used it btw. The Gudodama is simply used to create them.

People get bored of seeing rasengan variants rehashed over and over and over....
It does fit Naruto though; he lacks the brains to come up with anything new, so he just builds on what he already knows.
This is why I prefer Sasuke's jutsus/fighting style to Naruto. All Naruto does is attack with chakra balls; its just boring.

but Sasuke uses Chidori & Enton/Amaterasu variants and he's generally called a genius for it hmm

No one gets on Madara's case for only using susano and fire techs before his senju power up.

there was hardly any need to because there probably isn't a lot of instances where he was seen using either in a fight because a a good number of those fights weren't shown from start to finish.

When a jutsu is given a chakra nature it fundamentally changes the overall composition of it and how it work.

There an obviously difference in chakra composition from the rasengan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And a Rasengan variant:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Both have a base, but the change in Nature radically alters the scope of their power and destruction.

You must be registered for see images

 

[shadowcb]

No,but if you were to ask me if I think the Chidori variants are the same because they came from the original, then the answer would be a resounding "yes".

My answer is the same for the Rasengan and it's variants as well,you can add different chakra natures and even effects, but in the end you're still using a Rasengan.

I'm not asking about the chidori variants at all. I used lightning as an example because I know there are a lot of different lightning jutsu that have different range, property, power output, and effect.
EI: lightning armor and Lignhting beast.

The fact you don't consider all lightning jutsu to be the same even though they all use the element lightning, but you do consider all rasengan jutsu to be the same just with different chakra natures and effects makes no sense to me at all. That makes me believe you are being bias because there is just as much difference between the LRS and magnet rasengan as there is between the lightning armor and Lignhting beast.

If you want to be that way that's your choice. IMO they are different because they possess different ranges, properties, power outputs, and effects. It doesn't matter what anybody says they can not convince me a sealing jutsu is the same as a wind jutsu or lava jutsu.

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

I wouldn't even call them rasengan ''variants'' either, since any change in effectsis only dependent on the nature choice. a premeditation.
a variant should have more than cosmetic differences...

its like saying all bunshins variants are different jutsu. that's just a paradox

I looked at the Webster dictionary definition of Variant (Oddly oversimplified):

Variant- different in some way from others of the same kind.

Link:

You must be registered for see links

Also looked at the definition of Variation for some lean back (Also, oddly oversimplified)

Variation- a change in the form, position, condition, or amount of something

Link:

You must be registered for see links

Overall, it doesn't matter what part of the jutsu has been altered, whether it be the nature or the overall form of the jutsu, by definition, it still falls under the category of variant or variation.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I'm not asking about the chidori variants at all. I used lightning as an example because I know there are a lot of different lightning jutsu that have different range, property, power output, and effect.
EI: lightning armor and Lignhting beast.

The fact you don't consider all lightning jutsu to be the same even though they all use the element lightning, but you do consider all rasengan jutsu to be the same just with different chakra natures and effects makes no sense to me at all. That makes me believe you are being bias because there is just as much difference between the LRS and magnet rasengan as there is between the lightning armor and Lignhting beast.

If you want to be that way that's your choice. IMO they are different because they possess different ranges, properties, power outputs, and effects. It doesn't matter what anybody says they can not convince me a sealing jutsu is the same as a wind jutsu or lava jutsu.

I'm being biased?Really?

See the difference from jutsus being used from the same element and Rasengan variants is simple.Not every lightning jutsu uses the same base,Lightning Armor is different from Raikiri,Raikiri is different from Kirin and so on.

Rasengan and it's variants however are the same in terms of mechanics,user creates a ball of chakra+adds element to it.

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

I would like to add to the discussion by first saying that I do not fully agree with the author on some things, while I completely agree on others. To begin I would like to discuss the things said by other members.

Shape manipulation and nature manipulation. These are the things that Yamato discussed as making up the various jutsu in the naruto world. Let us consider the shape manipulation. The rasengan, by nature of its name, are all round spiraling spheres. Because a sphere could be considered a perfect shape, it can be argued that the rasengan's form is at an apex of shape manipulation. In fact, besides the rasenshuriken variants which, despite a sphere in the middle, is primarily shuriken shaped (and thus rasenSHURIKEN as opposed to rasenGAN) all of them use the same form. As it stands, we have many rasengan technique variations, but only two form manipulations. Detractors can, and perhaps rightfully should use this as a reason to complain about lack of originality in the technique variations, whereas as fans can consider this an example of "don't correct what is not broken." In either case, when compared to the various shape manipulations displayed by other characters (I will use Sasuke due to their duality: spear, needles, dragon, hand-held disarray, body-wide disarray, sword) Naruto is lacking.

Next, I would like to discuss nature. This is where Naruto, conversely, improves his jutsu variation. He has infused..rather "completed" the rasengan with different natures. He has used wind, lava, magnetism, bijuudama plus minus chakra, and sage chakra. Here I will argue that the differently natured rasengan are different techniques. I will use two controls. First, the simple bunshin technique. We have seen MANY clone techniques (shadow, water, sand, lightning, ink, crow(?), earth, wood, mud, etc.) and they are all considered different techniques, despite all ending in '~bunshin' the same way Naruto's techniques end in '~rasengan.' But this may not be enough, since it can be argued that they all do the same thing (fool the enemy as to one's true position) so I will like to use my second control, which is the different effects of the natures. Let us consider the dragon bullet technique. There was a fire dragon bullet (Hiruzen), water dragon bullet (Zabuza), and earth dragon bullet (Hiruzen), and despite them all being of the dragon bullet shape (much like rasengan sphere shape) their effects are obviously different. So, using this as a base, we can consider the differently natured rasengan to be different jutsu from the basic version.

To conclude I would like to repeat that, while I do not agree that simply by shape manipulation some of the rasengan variations are different (rasengan, double rasengan, big sphere rasengan), the differently natured rasengan should be considered different jutsu. What do you think?

 

[SusanooKyuubi]

I would like to add to the discussion by first saying that I do not fully agree with the author on some things, while I completely agree on others. To begin I would like to discuss the things said by other members.

Shape manipulation and nature manipulation. These are the things that Yamato discussed as making up the various jutsu in the naruto world. Let us consider the shape manipulation. The rasengan, by nature of its name, are all round spiraling spheres. Because a sphere could be considered a perfect shape, it can be argued that the rasengan's form is at an apex of shape manipulation. In fact, besides the rasenshuriken variants which, despite a sphere in the middle, is primarily shuriken shaped (and thus rasenSHURIKEN as opposed to rasenGAN) all of them use the same form. As it stands, we have many rasengan technique variations, but only two form manipulations. Detractors can, and perhaps rightfully should use this as a reason to complain about lack of originality in the technique variations, whereas as fans can consider this an example of "don't correct what is not broken." In either case, when compared to the various shape manipulations displayed by other characters (I will use Sasuke due to their duality: spear, needles, dragon, hand-held disarray, body-wide disarray, sword) Naruto is lacking.

Next, I would like to discuss nature. This is where Naruto, conversely, improves his jutsu variation. He has infused..rather "completed" the rasengan with different natures. He has used wind, lava, magnetism, bijuudama plus minus chakra, and sage chakra. Here I will argue that the differently natured rasengan are different techniques. I will use two controls. First, the simple bunshin technique. We have seen MANY clone techniques (shadow, water, sand, lightning, ink, crow(?), earth, wood, mud, etc.) and they are all considered different techniques, despite all ending in '~bunshin' the same way Naruto's techniques end in '~rasengan.' But this may not be enough, since it can be argued that they all do the same thing (fool the enemy as to one's true position) so I will like to use my second control, which is the different effects of the natures. Let us consider the dragon bullet technique. There was a fire dragon bullet (Hiruzen), water dragon bullet (Zabuza), and earth dragon bullet (Hiruzen), and despite them all being of the dragon bullet shape (much like rasengan sphere shape) their effects are obviously different. So, using this as a base, we can consider the differently natured rasengan to be different jutsu from the basic version.

To conclude I would like to repeat that, while I do not agree that simply by shape manipulation some of the rasengan variations are different (rasengan, double rasengan, big sphere rasengan), the differently natured rasengan should be considered different jutsu. What do you think?

On the crow part, I believe most instances have been Itachi's genjutsu. Correct me if wrong.

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

This may be true, so I would like to change 'crow' to 'explosive clay.'

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

From the replies its clear that most are hung up on the shape, it doesn't matter whether the jutsus have dozen different effects, the reply will be " oh its just a ball of chakra "

Perhaps people would be more happy if rasengan came in different shapes like dragon, but then that's literally asking for a downgrade as rasengan is the absolute highest level of shape manipulation possible

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"Absolute highest level"
"Acme"

And why do people what to see different shapes, fodders like zabuza, mei do dragon shapes with their jutsus yet its more exciting? Okay to each his own.

 

[Gatsuuga]

I like narutos rasengan variants. People want naruto to have lots of Jutsu just for the sake of variety which I think is stupid. Rasengan/ rasenshuriken was a gift emparted to him by minato, the father naruto never knew. It was also a technique that was taught to him by the one real father figure naruto ever had, jiriaya. Using and developing the technique shows narutos flexibility but also still connects him to his past and people important to him - it's like and oad to jiriaya and his parents.

This is why I don't care about all the variants and besides I see them as all differen anyway. Wanting variety just for variety seems silly given what the rasengan actually means for naruto as a character.

 

[chaos control]

This may be true, so I would like to change 'crow' to 'explosive clay.'

I can respect your post. I agree with what you said about the clones and the dragon bullets, those are perfect examples. You can also add how when some clones disperse (like lightning clones) they can do things like electrocuting the enemy.

 

[HashiramaIsBack]

Variations of Rasengan,thats all.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I see your poin. People complain because at the core of they are still rasengans. A big chakra ball or shuriken Naruto smashes onto the enemy tho, they do have diffirent properties and varying difficulties to master.