Creationism recently

[Lightbringer]

I'm not trying to come across as arrogant when I say this but I find it pretty ridiculous that people think there is a debate here. To me this is about as much a debate as "does 2+2=4 or does 2+2=22". It's just math and laws of nature. There really is no debate. 2+2 will always =4 no matter how much you may want to believe it's really 22.

I hate to say it but I'm not going to read an ocean of text based on incomplete personal opinions which developement can only possibly come from a lack of proper information on the subject combined with biased religious views. As someone who came from that point of view it just reminds me of how ignorant and dumb I was when I was younger. Then it makes me feel old. If rather not feel old today. I'm sure a few years from now, assuming you keep to your word and continue learning, you will probably have a similar thought to this one day. When that day comes dig this post out of the archives and reply to it. Until then, keep reading and question what you've learned that made you believe evolution might not be real.

It was so obvious and have found "the answer" people would have stopped arguing it.

What I am baffled by is that some people seem happy to believe that there is no creator/afterlife. How could you want oblivion?

It's better to try find answers proving god than being on a mission to disprove him(something I would consider immoral, even if the truth would be that he doesn't exist.)

 

[Berimbolo No Jutsu]

It was so obvious and have found "the answer" people would have stopped arguing it.

What I am baffled by is that some people seem happy to believe that there is no creator/afterlife. How could you want oblivion?

It's better to try find answers proving god than being on a mission to disprove him(something I would consider immoral, even if the truth would be that he doesn't exist.)

It's got nothing to do with want. I would love there to be an afterlife of some sort. Shoot I stil hold out that my consciousness in some way shifts to another plane and I get another life, that is not impossible, but an omnipotent being that created everything? It's just no longer a discussion. They were needed by our ancestors to make sense of the world, now they make no sense. It's not that I want to disprove, it just is what it is. We know for sure you get this life right now. Try not to waste it.

Even if there is an afterlife of whatever kind it's not going to be anything like people tend to think. I mean a hard blow to the head can handicap you and make you lose all you're motors yet people think when they die they will be withbtheor famoly and remember wveryone? That is all in your brain stored. Your brain will be rotting inn the ground. If your consciousness does move on in any way it won't be like that.

 

[Lightbringer]

It's got nothing to do with want. I would love there to be an afterlife of some sort. Shoot I stil hold out that my consciousness in some way shifts to another plane and I get another life, that is not impossible, but an omnipotent being that created everything? It's just no longer a discussion. They were needed by our ancestors to make sense of the world, now they make no sense. It's not that I want to disprove, it just is what it is. We know for sure you get this life right now. Try not to waste it.

Even if there is an afterlife of whatever kind it's not going to be anything like people tend to think. I mean a hard blow to the head can handicap you and make you lose all you're motors yet people think when they die they will be withbtheor famoly and remember wveryone? That is all in your brain stored. Your brain will be rotting inn the ground. If your consciousness does move on in any way it won't be like that.

Well I never said the afterlife was like the christian version. I believe it's something we can't fathom, just like the creator. He may be only omnipotent to our eyes, but true omnipotence can't exist without there being a paradox.

God could have just created this universe out of sheer boredom for all we know, which explains all the randomness and chaos.

Humans are flawed in nature, and have had flawed science and math theorems before. In a hundred years we may discover that Einstein's equation was wrong, who knows? Stuff like that has happened to other "geniuses"

That's why I can't believe that there is already a solid answer on "God" if math hasn't even established the perfect economy which should be a feat that pales in comparison.

 

[~Sky~]

Science can't yet explain consciousness, why we need to sleep, why we dream, how we store memories, internal clocks, and how we have such strong reaction times even though our neurons are so slow.

Yet people like to act like they know about the origins of the Universe.

 

[Joe Black]

Science can't yet explain consciousness, why we need to sleep, why we dream, how we store memories, internal clocks, and how we have such strong reaction times even though our neurons are so slow.

Yet people like to act like they know about the origins of the Universe.

Internal clocks:

You must be registered for see links

Why we need sleep:

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How do we store memories:

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(We only don't know how we recall them)

You act as if you knew anything about god, other than what humans wrote in the Bible.

 

[~Sky~]

Internal clocks:

You must be registered for see links

Why we need sleep:

You must be registered for see links

How do we store memories:

You must be registered for see links

(We only don't know how we recall them)

You act as if you knew anything about god, other than what humans wrote in the Bible.

There are several ideas as to how they work, but none that are universally accepted.

Also, your last sentence is meaningless, considering you're talking to an Agnostic.

 

[~Sky~]

What I'm basically saying, is that the idea that some scholars and scientists have, the idea that science is all-encompassing on topics, and that there isn't a need of religion, is a philosophically indefensible position.

No "experiment" can be devised to falsify or even rigorously test such a position. Sure, we can hope that one day science will provide insights into topics, like our morality, ethos, the purposes/reasons of human existence and raising children.

But those topics are usually never even addressed in the scientific community. You can find out how things work, but can you live a life of happiness? Religion pretty much has a clear field in this area. However, if science were to start looking into things like this, can we really believe that it would garner any useful results?

Religion and science should both just accept the fact that they have limitations, and neither can really achieve "truth," on their own two legs. And it's even worse when some from each party believe that the other party has no place in today's society.

 

[Joe Black]

There are several ideas as to how they work, but none that are universally accepted.

Also, your last sentence is meaningless, considering you're talking to an Agnostic.

Several theories earlier were not commonly accepted, but they are today. Despite they are still only theories, like how gravity works.

Other theories like the Sun revolving around the Earth were commonly accepted though, but turned out to be false.

So thinking that just because we don't fully understand something, it must be god's doing, is quite primitive. Just like our ancestors believing that "Oh the Sun is rising and sets, there must be a deity doing it"

Yeah an agnostic to whom it makes sense that god created an imperfect world so that we can appreciate the good things.

 

[~Sky~]

Several theories earlier were not commonly accepted, but they are today. Despite they are still only theories, like how gravity works.

Other theories like the Sun revolving around the Earth were commonly accepted though, but turned out to be false.

My point exactly? Science is also making new developments, yet there are people out there who still believe it is completely correct. The process is maybe, but, as you implied, theories are always developing.

So thinking that just because we don't fully understand something, it must be god's doing, is quite primitive. Just like our ancestors believing that "Oh the Sun is rising and sets, there must be a deity doing it"

That's not the point I was making, for goodness sake.

Yeah an agnostic to whom it makes sense that god created an imperfect world so that we can appreciate the good things.

That's logical. What is the purpose of perfection? You have absolutely nothing to strive for or learn in a world such as that.

 

[Joe Black]

My point exactly? Science is also making new developments, yet there are people out there who still believe it is completely correct. The process is maybe, but, as you implied, theories are always developing.



That's not the point I was making, for goodness sake.



That's logical. What is the purpose of perfection? You have absolutely nothing to strive for or learn in a world such as that.

Oh okay then, maybe I've misunderstood you.

Well we can always strive for knowledge?

 

[~Sky~]

Oh okay then, maybe I've misunderstood you.

Well we can always strive for knowledge?

I just believe that accepting that we don't know everything will help us learn new things. Stagnant views from either science or religion are frustrating to deal with.

 

[Disquiet]

Well we can always strive for knowledge?

Hmm and what would the lack of knowledge entail? What would we want to accomplish with it? A lot of the knowledge we acquire today seems to be used to "better" humanity. That would suggest though, that we are imperfect.

 

[Joe Black]

I just believe that accepting that we don't know everything will help us learn new things. Stagnant views from either science or religion are frustrating to deal with.

Well I agree that we should accept we don't know everything. It's not even a question.

Hmm and what would the lack of knowledge entail? What would we want to accomplish with it? A lot of the knowledge we acquire today seems to be used to "better" humanity. That would suggest though, that we are imperfect.

And...your point is? .-.

 

[Kishi Uzumaki]

No I'm a believer of evolution .

Hmm and what would the lack of knowledge entail? What would we want to accomplish with it? A lot of the knowledge we acquire today seems to be used to "better" humanity. That would suggest though, that we are imperfect.

Knowledge can be used to better everything around us , more knowledge one acquires either it be through experience or reading , more confident they become and we are imperfect that's what makes us want to acquire more knowledge and improve ourselves and things that takes our interests although it could end up been a pursuit that good enough never be enough .

 

[Disquiet]

Edit: I read it. It was just like I thought. It was very interesting. Its getting late where I am, and I would like to respond in a seperate post to address individual points. Thanks for this post!
(also I apologize for the text wall abomination above. I will come back and format it better)

No rush , I was never intending to hang around in this thread, and as you can see, I got involved in another lengthy discussion with Kobak. So if you don't have the time, don't mind me . Of course, I'll be up for the discussion if you still want to comment/if I have anything to say to your response.

And...your point is? .-.

Cures for diseases, methods to correct behavior that hampers our ability to learn in an academic field, routines one could practice so they know how to socialize, *** techniques one could learn so that both partners can have a better experience in bed, all these technological inventions we create so that we can enjoy ourselves (which would suggest we lacked enjoyment), etc.

You mentioned knowledge, which I found interesting because even it seems to be intertwined with the ideal of good and bad. My point is that much of our knowledge-seeking is due to perceived imperfections.

One could also raise the argument that lacking knowledge is a trait of an imperfect individual. The desire to seek is born from the aspiration to fill an absence; a lack of something.

Knowledge can be used to better everything around us , more knowledge one acquires either it be through experience or reading , more confident they become and we are imperfect that's what makes us want to acquire more knowledge and improve ourselves and things that takes our interests although it could end up been a pursuit that good enough never be enough .

This is the point I was making.

 

[Joe Black]

Cures for diseases, methods to correct behavior that hampers our ability to learn in an academic field, routines one could practice so they know how to socialize, *** techniques one could learn so that both partners can have a better experience in bed, all these technological inventions we create so that we can enjoy ourselves (which would suggest we lacked enjoyment), etc.

You mentioned knowledge, which I found interesting because even it seems to be intertwined with the ideal of good and bad. My point is that much of our knowledge-seeking is due to perceived imperfections.

One could also raise the argument that lacking knowledge is a trait of an imperfect individual. The desire to seek is born from the aspiration to fill an absence; a lack of something.

Oh alright, makes sense.

I think that god is actually just a way to fill the gaps in our knowledge. We're afraid of the unknown, so human nature is such that seeks explanation. As long as we have any kind of explanation, we feel more comfortable/relieved. Some people would be terrified if they lost the hope of an afterlife.

 

[Disquiet]

Oh alright, makes sense.

I think that god is actually just a way to fill the gaps in our knowledge. We're afraid of the unknown, so human nature is such that seeks explanation. As long as we have any kind of explanation, we feel more comfortable/relieved. Some people would be terrified if they lost the hope of an afterlife.

This is highly possible. The curious cat in me would never rest solidly on either side of the spectrum though (whether there's a god or no god), unless I'm given some heart-stopping, soul-extracting, mind-splattering epiphany from either side. That'd be one way for curiosity to kill the cat, and also an ironic way of discovering if there is an afterlife, or not.

 

[Joe Black]

This is highly possible. The curious cat in me would never rest solidly on either side of the spectrum though (whether there's a god or no god), unless I'm given some heart-stopping, soul-extracting, mind-splattering epiphany from either side. That'd be one way for curiosity to kill the cat, and also an ironic way of discovering if there is an afterlife, or not.

Try suicide. Cats have 9 lives

 

[Lightbringer]

Oh alright, makes sense.

I think that god is actually just a way to fill the gaps in our knowledge. We're afraid of the unknown, so human nature is such that seeks explanation. As long as we have any kind of explanation, we feel more comfortable/relieved. Some people would be terrified if they lost the hope of an afterlife.

Is it weird that every civilization on earth believed in some sort of higher power? With that said, humans are born believing in such a thing.

Perhaps we are just figuring out how God works(science), but the creator still exists, just not what we might expect him to be.


If God exists, no such being would be able to define or understand him. It's like an ant trying to understand a human.