How these characters would perform in Kimimaro's gauntlet?

[Icelerate]

for hidan I was more thinking along the lines of Immortality. Part 1 gaara would have no way of knowing about his immortality and would toss out the usual sand coffins, sand burials and what not that hidan would try to evade and just walk out of once gaara released the pressure. By the time gaara realized wtf was up, it might be too late and he might be out of chakra.

As for konan, part 1 gaara has no real feats to catch all her paper with. Going by what he showed, he only had 3 large scale techs which are all useless against flying paper goddess, so konan would sweep quite easily.

For asuma, I did say that if he wizened up and started tossing his knives, instead of using them for slashing, he could have a chance. But, by the point he thinks up something like that, gaara would have slaughtered him. all he's shown is katon(completely ineffective against gaara's sand) and fuuton empowered weapons heavily relying on taijutsu. We saw what happened to kimi while relying on taijutsu.

For temari, it's a bit obvious IMO. Her arsenal has nothing to get through gaara's sand. I don't know of any piercing attacks she has and it doesn't matter how many wind slashing she uses. What's worse is that gaara can attack without worry because of auto defence, so temari would be the one needing to really look out for herself most times while gaara springs sand above her head, at her feat and throws massive waves at her.

---

Which part 2 feats did I use btw? I'm pretty sure all the feats I used were in his fight with kimi.

ground attacks -> Quicksand and sand arms
bury attacks -> quicksand, sand tsunami
crush attacks -> desert grand funeral, sand burial

EDIT: Oh, are you referring to the tanking 5 susano'o swords? well, fair enough... Gaara's sand also tanked a tail whip from kimi and a kick from lee, so it does have incredible feats.

Okay so basically you think Gaara would lose to Hidan or Konan because he can get outlasted? Fair enough but I think Gaara can finish them off, maybe not Konan depending on how fast she is and how high she can fly. No where in the manga is it implied that slicing based can't penetrate through Gaara's sand. Yes piercing attacks are better at this job because the damage per unit area is generally much higher because the attack's strength is concentrated at a point unlike a slicing attack where the damage is concentrated over a line. However if a slicing attack is on a whole other level compared to a piercing attack, that slicing attack will have more damage per unit area. Although slicing based attacks tend to have a higher level of damage per unit area compared to pressure based attacks because the power of pressure based attacks are spread out throughout a 2D surface. Yet I'm sure we can agree that a pressure based attack on a higher level than a slicing based attack or even a piercing level attack will yield more damage per unit area.

The part one tanking feats that Gaara has which you listed and the ones I recall from the top of my head don't convince me that it is strong enough to tank a KKM from current Temari via power scaling and a wind cast net will breach his defence as well unless he has already upgraded his defence like he did against Kimimaro by creating additional sand. I never said she wins but if she can take him out at the very beginning before he creates additional sand, I don't see why not.

Sand is sand, it isn't going to be magically stronger. The only thing that would change is Gaara's expertise in manipulating it / the amount he can manipulate at a given time. Gaara explicitly said that the sand he used against Kimimaro was actually harder than normal sand since it was a combination of both sand and minerals from deep below the earth. If anything, Gaara's sand in the Kimimaro fight was harder than usual.

That's a fallacious way of thinking. Part one Gaara is weaker than part two Gaara so his sand defence and offence will be weaker in part one as compared to part two. Part one Gaara doesn't have the feats that part two Gaara performed so they can't be magically handed over to an inferior part one Gaara, since during that timeframe, Gaara was never able to show those feats.

Read the two sentences in bold, you contradicted yourself and proved my point. Gaara managed to harden his sand and was harder than usual so your initial point of sand being just sand is moot since its defensive properties can change.

 

[Black Wolf]

Didn't contradict myself at all, it's just you not finishing the very sentence you bolded.

Gaara was augmenting his normal sand with minerals in that specific area. Gaara never stated he was augmenting his sand with minerals in any other scenario except perhaps with his dad's gold (which was not being used against Madara), so I have no reason to believe his sand will be magically stronger when it isn't due to something / a third party material directly augmenting his sand, like minerals or "gold dust."

 

[Icelerate]

Didn't contradict myself at all, it's just you not finishing the very sentence you bolded.

Gaara was augmenting his normal sand with minerals. Gaara never stated he was augmenting his sand with minerals in any other scenario except perhaps with his dad's gold (which was not being used against Madara), so I have no reason to believe his sand will be magically stronger when it isn't due to something / a third party material directly augmenting his sand, like minerals or "gold dust."

Gaara can make his gourd sand more durable depending on the quality/quantity of chakra infused and it is more durable than ordinary sand he uses (

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) although it is impossible for the two of us to prove the difference between his gourd sand or the mineral enhanced sand he created against Kimimaro. Although condensed chakra in his gourd should be more durable since it isn't just generic minerals but Gaara's own chakra. Also we're comparing current Gaara's gourd sand with part one Gaara's mineral enhanced sand.

The sand you are talking about takes time to create so it can't be brought up nigh instantly to defend against various attacks. The reason why he had the time to use it against Kimimaro was because Kimimaro didn't start off with his strongest attacks but slowly worked his way up.

Also that particular sand was used to errect the

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, his normal sand defence is going to be weaker than Shippuden Gaara's.

 

[Black Wolf]

Not sure what you are trying to say with that scan. It clearly says the sand in his gourd sand is stronger than the sand he manipulates from an external sand source. That doesn't prove the gourd sand gets stronger over time. It sits in his gourd all day, and it is not generated by his chakra, only moved and manipulated by his chakra. Having more chakra / better chakra control won't make the sand sitting in his backpack somehow get stronger.

An improvement in chakra amount / chakra control might mean he can use more sophisticated maneuvers or control a larger amount of sand at a given time (given there is sand in the area). It isn't going to magically make the sand that literally sits in his gourd all day stronger than it was yesterday, or the day before.

The sand in his gourd is static in nature, and only gets stronger if directly augmented by a third party.

 

[Icelerate]

Not sure what you are trying to say with that scan. It clearly says the sand in his gourd sand is stronger than the sand he manipulates from an external sand source. That doesn't prove the gourd sand gets stronger over time. It sits in his gourd all day, and it is not generated by his chakra, only moved and manipulated by his chakra. Having more chakra / better chakra control won't make the sand sitting in his backpack somehow get stronger.

An improvement in chakra amount / chakra control might mean he can use more sophisticated maneuvers or control a larger amount of sand at a given time (given there is sand in the area). It isn't going to magically make the sand that literally sits in his gourd all day stronger than it was yesterday, or the day before.

The sand in his gourd is static in nature, and only gets stronger if directly augmented by a third party.

Part two Gaara's gourd sand has better tanking feats than part one Gaara's gourd sand. Part two Gaara's chakra is more powerful than part one Gaara's and he obviously has better chakra control so his chakra enhanced gourd sand will no doubt be stronger. Furthermore, what stops Gaara putting more and more chakra into his gourd sand as years go on? It is likely he did just that because it doesn't explain the better tanking feats that part two Gaara's gourd sand has compared to part one Gaara.

Anyway part one Gaara can't be handed over feats of part two Gaara the same way part one Kakashi isn't allowed to use raiton clones and his other raiton techs that he only showed in Shippuden and not part one.

@Bold: Better chakra means better defence or else all susanoos have the same defensive capabilities.

Part one tanking feats: Almost got pierced by Kimimaro's bone bullets (

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). The sand wall Gaara created from the ground where all the minerals are present got overpowered by Kimimaro running straight (

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)(

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).

Part two tanking feats: On the other hand, part two Gaara managed to defend himself against 5 susanoo clones and it took 5 susanoo sword slashes for Gaara's defence to reach his limit (

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).

 

[Black Wolf]

Having better chakra / better chakra control would matter if Gaara was actually generating the sand, since the sand's strength would be correlated with his chakra. His sand is not generated by chakra; it is sitting statically in his backpack. Having better chakra control allows him to use more sand and manipulate it in more sophisticated ways. It will not magically strengthen it for no reason unless augmented with third party materials.

It isn't the same at all, because Susano'o is generated by the user's chakra. The strength (and size) of the Susano'o depends on the user's chakra capacity and the strength of their chakra. Susano'o is not a pre-existing source that is simply manipulated by chakra, it is literally manifested from the user's chakra. Gaara's sand is not manifested by him; it is simply controlled by him.

 

[Icelerate]

Having better chakra / better chakra control would matter if Gaara was actually generating the sand, since the sand's strength would be correlated with his chakra. His sand is not generated by chakra; it is sitting statically in his backpack. Having better chakra control allows him to use more sand and manipulate it in more sophisticated ways. It will not magically strengthen it for no reason unless augmented with third party materials.

It isn't the same at all, because Susano'o is generated by the user's chakra. The strength (and size) of the Susano'o depends on the user's chakra capacity and the strength of their chakra. Susano'o is not a pre-existing source that is simply manipulated by chakra, it is literally manifested from the user's chakra. Gaara's sand is not manifested by him; it is simply controlled by him.

It doesn't change my point that chakra enhanced sand will be stronger than non chakra enhanced sand. A chakra enhanced blade will also be stronger than a non chakra enhanced blade. Chakra enhanced webs, like Kidomaru's, will be stronger than non chakra enhanced webs. Chakra enhanced wood, (mokuton) will be more durable than regular wood. All in all, a chakra enhanced material will be more durable than a non chakra enhanced material for obvious reasons. Denying this is ignoring common sense.

 

[Black Wolf]

None of your examples work because all of them are generated by the user.

The blade is static, but the elemental chakra that is being streamed on it is relative to the user. The webs are generated by Kidomaru. All of your examples depend on the user's chakra because they are literally made by the user's chakra. Gaara's sand is not made by him; it is literally just sitting there, waiting to be moved by him.

 

[Icelerate]

None of your examples work because all of them are generated by the user.

The blade is static, but the elemental chakra that is being streamed on it is relative to the user. The webs are generated by Kidomaru. All of your examples depend on the user's chakra because they are literally made by the user's chakra. Gaara's sand is not made by him; it is literally just sitting there, waiting to be moved by him.

First off, you ignored my

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in this previous post (#25) and that feats show you are wrong.

Secondly, what difference does it make if a substance is first generated by chakra considering the fact either way, chakra is doing its thing on the sand. You say the chakra is only good for is manipulating sand but then ignore the fact that as an attack is breaching Gaara's sand, Gaara can try to prevent it by manipulating his sand in various ways and repair the damage or soften the impact. Deidara himself comments that not only speed, but the power of his gourd sand is on a whole other level (

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). Gaara's sand is first and foremost, a defence so it being more powerful means its defensive capabilities are also going to be enhanced.

The blade is static, but the elemental chakra that is being streamed on it is relative to the user.

What exactly is your point? The same can be said of Gaara's gourd sand.

Anyway, I'm not replying anymore because I'm busy but I have a feeling you are only trying to hype up Kimimaro by arguing that Gaara's sand's defensive capabilities didn't increase in part two.

 

[Black Wolf]

Layering your sand with more sand doesn't make said sand stronger. It just means he layered his sand with more sand. If I have a metal shield in front of me and then another scenario where I put another shield in front of it, it doesn't make the material of the shield harder. It just means I have two shields in front of me rather than one, and it is the same exact idea with having a thicker layer of sand in front of you.

No, it isn't the same at all. Saying Gaara's sand in his backpack "got stronger" is like saying the kunai in Kakashi's pocket got stronger over the timeskip just because he did. The kunai itself is static. The elemental chakra is generated by the user, it isn't manipulated.

 

[Icelerate]

Layering your sand with more sand doesn't make said sand stronger. It just means he layered his sand with more sand. If I have a metal shield in front of me and then another scenario where I put another shield in front of it, it doesn't make the material of the shield harder. It just means I have two shields in front of me rather than one, and it is the same exact idea with having a thicker layer of sand in front of you.

So a mountain and a boulder are made out of the same substance but because the mountain is much larger in dimensions, it is much much harder to destroy so adding an extra layer of sand also makes Gaara's sand defence stronger. But why did you switch the subject? I'm talking about Gaara being able to manipulate his sand and enhancing its defensive capabilities by softening the impact of blows by its changing shape and repairing any cracks or holes that his defence sustains. The flexibility of chakra enhanced strength allows Gaara's defensive capabilities to increase. Also you once again ignored my previous points.

No, it isn't the same at all. Saying Gaara's sand in his backpack "got stronger" is like saying the kunai in Kakashi's pocket got stronger over the timeskip just because he did. The kunai itself is static. The elemental chakra is generated by the user, it isn't manipulated.

A kunai doesn't get enhanced by chakra or refined over time and have its quality constantly improved. It's implied by feats that Gaara's gourd sand was constantly upgraded by Gaara in terms of quality of chakra and possibly/logically the mineral density within the gourd sand.

How is the kunai example anything similar to Gaara constantly improving his own sand? No where is it implied that Kakashi is constantly making his kunai stronger.

Anyway sand in and of itself isn't a great defence, it is the user that is consciously utilising its defensive capability to its fullest potential. A static wall of sand is much easier to penetrate than a wall of sand erected and controlled by Gaara himself.

 

[TRE MERCER]

You need to rewrite the OP, its confusing.

Pretty much this. I hate when the OT of a vs thread is confusing like wtf.

 

[Black Wolf]

I'm not switching the subject. Layering the sand with more sand doesn't make the sand itself more durable. You are simply layering the sand with more sand; there is more of the material over a given space, but the material itself isn't stronger. What exactly am I ignoring?

Gaara's gourd sand is just like that kunai. It is sitting in a backpack until it is next used. Gaara's versatility with said sand will improve as his chakra improves, but the sand's strength is not going to get stronger because it is not a by product of Gaara's chakra. It is simply manipulated by it.

 

[Icelerate]

I'm not switching the subject. Layering the sand with more sand doesn't make the sand itself more durable. You are simply layering the sand with more sand; there is more of the material over a given space, but the material itself isn't stronger. What exactly am I ignoring?

The sand itself won't be more durable but the thicker the sand, the stronger the attacks it can defend against. However you're the one who started talking about layering the sand when it had no relevance to the discussion up till the point before you mentioned it.

You're ignoring the superior feats that part two Gaara has over part one Gaara in terms of defensive capability. I'll post them again.

Part one tanking feats: Almost got pierced by Kimimaro's bone bullets (

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). The sand wall Gaara created from the ground where all the minerals are present got overpowered by Kimimaro running straight (

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)(

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).

Part two tanking feats: On the other hand, part two Gaara managed to defend himself against 5 susanoo clones and it took 5 susanoo sword slashes for Gaara's defence to reach his limit (

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).

Gaara's gourd sand is just like that kunai. It is sitting in a backpack until it is next used. Gaara's versatility with said sand will improve as his chakra improves, but the sand's strength is not going to get stronger because it is not a by product of Gaara's chakra. It is simply manipulated by it.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here because neither you, nor I, will be able to convince the other. Why is it that Gaara primarily uses his gourd sand, not the mineral sand to surround himself? The most logical answer is because his gourd sand is more durable and so he always keeps some of it near him.

Gaara's ability to use his sand more effectively will improve as its upgraded over time which will correlate with an improved defence as explained in my previous post.

I'm talking about Gaara being able to manipulate his sand and enhancing its defensive capabilities by softening the impact of blows by its changing shape and repairing any cracks or holes that his defence sustains. The flexibility of chakra enhanced sand allows Gaara's defensive capabilities to increase.

Anyway sand in and of itself isn't a great defence, it is the user that is consciously utilising its defensive capability to its fullest potential. A static wall of sand is much easier to penetrate than a wall of sand erected and controlled by Gaara himself.

If you want additional proof why adding chakra to sand will improve its defence than consider how another defence, doton domu, works.

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increases defensive capability by sending chakra throughout the body to harden the skin

Basically adding chakra to sand should also harden its defensive capability.

 

[Black Wolf]

The sand itself won't be more durable but the thicker the sand, the stronger the attacks it can defend against. However you're the one who started talking about layering the sand when it had no relevance to the discussion up till the point before you mentioned it.

Of course it had relevance.

The whole reason Gaara's sand in Part II has better feats is simply because he has more of it as his disposal, as all his fights have been in a desert. The amount of sand he used to block finger bullets was nothing more than an arm's worth of sand, versus the amount he used in Part II.

Part one tanking feats: Almost got pierced by Kimimaro's bone bullets (

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). The sand wall Gaara created from the ground where all the minerals are present got overpowered by Kimimaro running straight (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

).

Part two tanking feats: On the other hand, part two Gaara managed to defend himself against 5 susanoo clones and it took 5 susanoo sword slashes for Gaara's defence to reach his limit (

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).

Do you not see the difference in the amount of sand being used to block the bone bullets vs. the amount he is using to block Susano'o swords? That is purely a quantitative difference, and goes back to what I said earlier; using more sand to defend results in a better defense. It doesn't make the sand itself any more durable; the sand is static.

I also have no reason to believe that one Susano'o clone is stronger than Kimimaro. Madara nearly busted through the collective defense of Gaara and Onoki's sand / rock shield with mere Magatama's, yet suddenly a sword cannot bust through Gaara's sand alone, without Onoki's help? The Susano'o clone was significantly weaker than normal.

If you want additional proof why adding chakra to sand will improve its defence than consider how another defence, doton domu, works.

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increases defensive capability by sending chakra throughout the body to harden the skin

Basically adding chakra to sand should also harden its defensive capability.

There is a difference between controlling sand and using a jutsu, which I have already covered earlier. The jutsu is a byproduct of the user's chakra, whilst sand is merely manipulated by chakra, not manifested by it.

 

[Beans2]

Temari Kimimaro high diff
Kankuro Kimimaro mid diff
Zabuza Kimimaro low diff
Asuma Kimimaro low diff
No sharingan Kakashi Kimimaro high diff
Kitsuchi Kitsuchi low diff
Darui Darui low diff
Sound 4 as a whole Sound 4 high diff
Sakura Kimimaro mid diff
Tsunade Kimimaro mid diff
Neji Kimimaro mid diff
Chouji Chouji mid diff
Lee Lee mid diff
Gai Gai low diff
Hidan Kimimaro mid diff
Mei Mei low diff
Konan Konan low diff
Yamato Yamato high diff
Sai Sai mid diff
Cee Kimimaro mid diff

10 characters