You cannot use izanagi to revert something that has already happened. If was clearly stated with Danzo. You must activate Izanagi before something happens to you, in order to change it. If you activate it afterwards, it won't change anything that has previously happened. This Madara's survival makes no sense.
He didn't change the fact or course of events causing him to get stabbed, only that the wound was fatal. Then he immediately treated the wound with hashiramas flesh.
You cannot use izanagi to revert something that has already happened. If was clearly stated with Danzo. You must activate Izanagi before something happens to you, in order to change it. If you activate it afterwards, it won't change anything that has previously happened. This Madara's survival makes no sense.
Nope according to the diagram Itachi showed up Izangi CHANGES fate. Even Danzo would use Izangi to escape Sasuke's arrows and Amatarsu. The jutsu ACTIVATED prior to that nut it WASNT USED. I think Madara had it preped but not in use
He didn't change the fact or course of events causing him to get stabbed, only that the wound was fatal. Then he immediately treated the wound with hashiramas flesh.
Nope according to the diagram Itachi showed up Izangi CHANGES fate. Even Danzo would use Izangi to escape Sasuke's arrows and Amatarsu. The jutsu ACTIVATED prior to that nut it WASNT USED. I think Madara had it preped but not in use
Danzo had Izanagi activated every time he got stabbed by those arrows, that's why he didn't die. He didn't activate it after being stabbed, if you know whay i mean. Remember when Danzo had to use the tree to deviate the arrow, because he had had no time to activate Izanagi before Sasuke throw the arrow.
Nope according to the diagram Itachi showed up Izangi CHANGES fate. Even Danzo would use Izangi to escape Sasuke's arrows and Amatarsu. The jutsu ACTIVATED prior to that nut it WASNT USED. I think Madara had it preped but not in use
Izanagi activate <---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Eye used up
----------------------All events from this point on related to the user's fate can be altered.
However Izanagi has only a limited time of use, ergo Madara should have woken MINUTES after his battle. You can't keep Izanagi active for months or weeks. For a pure Uchiha as Madara was at the time having Izanagi active for such a long time is even more impossible.
That is Izanagi. If Dead Madara's Izanagi activated after he was dead nothing would change, because his death wasn't within the scope of the time interval and the wound he received had long since been suffered. Ergo Kishi has really fked up here. He has messed with his own techniques.
Why are you assuming Danzo is a credible source for forbidden Uchiha techniques?
Furthermore, you shouldn't compare Danzo's izanagi to Madara's. Madara had a EMS, perhaps his version works differently.
I do understand what your saying, that Danzo's izanagi was unable to change the "fate" of events that occurred prior to the techniques activation. The problem is that Madara's a pureblood uchiha with a Eternal Sharingan, you cant compare Danzo's izanagi to Madaras izanagi.
Lastly, I think you are assuming to much about this weeks chapter. We know Madara's izanagi's had a time delay. One interpretation was that after a certain amount of time Madara's eye would activate izanagi but what if- madara activated izanagi right before death, and the time delay is referring to when he is going to be revived. Normally, izanagi revives the user immediately, what if Madara had that effect on hold, in order to trick everyone?
moreover, how did his izanagi'd eye become a rinnegan... during the war we saw Edo Madara using both sharingans, both of which were turned into rinnegan.
Now, most people will say 1 of 2 things:
1) "YOU IDIOT he prolly replaced it with another sharingan, shut up!11!"
or
2) "DUMBASS edo tensei makes you the best of your best"
to the 1st thing I say it can't be or else his edo tensei wouldn't have displayed his own mangekyo which were then turned to rinnegan.
Which brings me to the 2nd point. Sure, Edo Tensei can incorporate plot no jutsu by giving Madara his rinnegan in his young form. But those are still the eyes that were turned into rinnegan. Which we saw during the fight were his original EMS.
At this point, the only thing that will make sense is that ashura+indra chakra can heal anything ever.
Why are you assuming Danzo is a credible source for forbidden Uchiha techniques?
Furthermore, you shouldn't compare Danzo's izanagi to Madara's. Madara had a EMS, perhaps his version works differently.
I do understand what your saying, that Danzo's izanagi was unable to change the "fate" of events that occurred prior to the techniques activation. The problem is that Madara's a pureblood uchiha with a Eternal Sharingan, you cant compare Danzo's izanagi to Madaras izanagi.
Lastly, I think you are assuming to much about this weeks chapter. We know Madara's izanagi's had a time delay. One interpretation was that after a certain amount of time Madara's eye would activate izanagi but what if- madara activated izanagi right before death, and the time delay is referring to when he is going to be revived. Normally, izanagi revives the user immediately, what if Madara had that effect on hold, in order to trick everyone?
If you want to go by some fantasy version of Izanagi you have in your own mind not in the manga written by Kishi then thats fair enough but keep it within the realms of fanfiction.
We have seen Obito use Izanagi which just so happened to work exactly like Danzo's own version. Fact is Black zetsu stated, "You can create techniques that would be activated after a certain time" "Madara put Izanagi into his right eye" This means that the izanagi technique was set to activate after his death.
When Izanagi is active it can only be active for a short period of time and it cannot negate damage and fatal wounds outside of its time-limit purview. This idea of timed tecchniques works FINE when talking about jutsu like Amateresu but Izanagi is not an automatic "I win, I rez" button, the technique has rules. Which kishi just decided to throw out the window.
Also Kishi has not written about some "ultra" Uchiha version of the technique that can stay active for months at a time. So no I'm sorry trying to patch up an absurd plot hole like this is idiotic.
Also you mentioned EMS not being the same thing compared to a regular sharingan, ordinarily I would agree and state that it MIGHT be possible that Izanagi can be used without penalty by a EMS user. However that was before today's chapter where I saw Madara's right eye go blind. Ergo its the same technique not to mention a much weaker version of the one that Danzo and Obito used which was enhanced by Senju DNA.
moreover, how did his izanagi'd eye become a rinnegan... during the war we saw Edo Madara using both sharingans, both of which were turned into rinnegan.
Now, most people will say 1 of 2 things:
1) "YOU IDIOT he prolly replaced it with another sharingan, shut up!11!"
or
2) "DUMBASS edo tensei makes you the best of your best"
to the 1st thing I say it can't be or else his edo tensei wouldn't have displayed his own mangekyo which were then turned to rinnegan.
Which brings me to the 2nd point. Sure, Edo Tensei can incorporate plot no jutsu by giving Madara his rinnegan in his young form. But those are still the eyes that were turned into rinnegan. Which we saw during the fight were his original EMS.
At this point, the only thing that will make sense is that ashura+indra chakra can heal anything ever.
Exactly so my good man. It may be possible that Senju DNA can regenerate MS and EMS. So its more easily explained away compared to the Izanagi plot hole we are faced with. Honestly for an information dump chapter this sucked.
You're right. Izanagi as it's explained shouldn't be able to bring Madara back to life. But this is Kishi. He doesn't give out the full details. I mean, just look at the plot right now; it's a prime example of what I'm talking about. Our only source of knowledge regarding Izanagi is Danzo (and I guess Obito, but I don't recall him explaining how his version was superior). Danzo is a non-Uchiha with Hashirama's cells using the genjutsu, and though he has great intelligence, his knowledge and/or ability with Izanagi is likely limited.
Who better to use Izanagi to its fullest extent than Madara, the macdaddy of the Uchiha? Maybe that fullest extent allows the user to use the genjutsu to alter their existence beyond activation time? Is it convoluted? Yes. Had Kishi just made it like that in the first place, there would be no issue. But again, this is Kishi. Everything has become convoluted.
Maybe if it was activated at a time before his death, the nature of the time delay can prevent the time limit up until it is used. Like this maybe.
Activate
Set delay
1 month passes but technique is not technically activated but was active during his death due to the time dealy
Resurrects
Or maybe
Activates jutsu
Death, izanagi takes effect
Rewrites it so that he is revived a month later. This may be possible with MS and not be contradictory.
No one said that reality had to be rewritten than and there, I think the time window more refers to what events can be rewritten in real time. *********** translates as outside of time. Dunno if that is right though.
I also had another thought, Danzo used the tree to dodge sasuke's arrow because if he got he would die. He couldn't activate it after death like Madara can apparently. Perhaps the event needs not happen within the scope of the time limit. Like if you had an injury, then activate izanagi and heal it. But this can now apply to death because even though you can't activate it after death cuz you are dead, the time delay removes that.
Obito may contradict this, but maybe he never thought to implant it, or maybe you can only implant it in a MS and his only MS was too valuable.
You cannot use izanagi to revert something that has already happened. If was clearly stated with Danzo. You must activate Izanagi before something happens to you, in order to change it. If you activate it afterwards, it won't change anything that has previously happened. This Madara's survival makes no sense.
Danzo's Izanagi, as stated by Obito was incomplete. This implies he was also ignorant of its full potential. Furthermore, he was neither an Uchiha, Senju or Indra or Ashura's reincarnation.
Madara's ocular prowess of his EMS and Indra and Ashura's chakra from the flesh in his stomach may have allowed him to extend the technique's capability.
And actually, the technique did work on Danzo after he was killed, not just during attacks.
Izanagi removes all damage, no matter the activation moment. Be it before the damage or afterwards.
Danzo had to use it before because Sasuke used oneshot-kill techniques on him, he wouldn't have been able to use Izanagi after getting crushed/pierced etc.
And Madara just pushed it further with an simple if (dead) = then (Izanagi) command.
Izanagi removes all damage, no matter the activation moment. Be it before the damage or afterwards.
Danzo had to use it before because Sasuke used oneshot-kill techniques on him, he wouldn't have been able to use Izanagi after getting crushed/pierced etc.
And Madara just pushed it further with an simple if (dead) = then (Izanagi) command.
No its you that doesn't understand the technique. It has been shown during Danzo's battle with Sasuke that Izanagi can't negate damage that has occurred to the body that is not rendered illusion to begin with.
Ergo it works like this, I refer you to this chapter when Sasuke fights Danzo:
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1. Danzo was cut slightly before activating Izanagi.
2. Danzo Activates Izanagi.
3. Danzo is mortally wounded.
4. Danzo returns but is not unharmed, he still retains the cut he recieved BEFORE activating Izanagi.
This tells you the jutsu MUST BE ACTIVE to negate damage and mortal wounds. Ergo Kishi is violating his own jutsu rules to resurrect Madara. Its simply not how Izanagi works.
If it worked as you said then Danzo should have returned unharmed.
Danzo's Izanagi, as stated by Obito was incomplete. This implies he was also ignorant of its full potential. Furthermore, he was neither an Uchiha, Senju or Indra or Ashura's reincarnation.
Madara's ocular prowess of his EMS and Indra and Ashura's chakra from the flesh in his stomach may have allowed him to extend the technique's capability.
And actually, the technique did work on Danzo after he was killed, not just during attacks.
I never neg rep people unless they piss me off, I just wanted to send a message without posting.
Again I refer you to my above explanation of how Izanagi actually works. Because its apparent that nobody seems to know what they are talking about. Obito also never mentions anything about it being an "incomplete" jutsu that Danzo was using. In fact he stated that he had taken it far further than any Uchiha so far due to his sheer store of sharingan.
Not to mention that Madara should only have been capable of using Izanagi for a split second, or at most a few moments. Not months lol.
If you want to go by some fantasy version of Izanagi you have in your own mind not in the manga written by Kishi then thats fair enough but keep it within the realms of fanfiction.
We have seen Obito use Izanagi which just so happened to work exactly like Danzo's own version. Fact is Black zetsu stated, "You can create techniques that would be activated after a certain time" "Madara put Izanagi into his right eye" This means that the izanagi technique was set to activate after his death.
When Izanagi is active it can only be active for a short period of time and it cannot negate damage and fatal wounds outside of its time-limit purview. This idea of timed tecchniques works FINE when talking about jutsu like Amateresu but Izanagi is not an automatic "I win, I rez" button, the technique has rules. Which kishi just decided to throw out the window.
Also Kishi has not written about some "ultra" Uchiha version of the technique that can stay active for months at a time. So no I'm sorry trying to patch up an absurd plot hole like this is idiotic.
Also you mentioned EMS not being the same thing compared to a regular sharingan, ordinarily I would agree and state that it MIGHT be possible that Izanagi can be used without penalty by a EMS user. However that was before today's chapter where I saw Madara's right eye go blind. Ergo its the same technique not to mention a much weaker version of the one that Danzo and Obito used which was enhanced by Senju DNA.
Exactly so my good man. It may be possible that Senju DNA can regenerate MS and EMS. So its more easily explained away compared to the Izanagi plot hole we are faced with. Honestly for an information dump chapter this sucked.
First of all izanagi's a fantasy seeing as this is a fictional work, second of all he is going by izanagi seen in the manga.... The very last chapter of the manga actually.
