LUMOS ULTIMATUM
Anbu Operative 🎭
- Joined
- May 29, 2013
- Messages
- 3,277
- Reaction score
- 338
This is going to be long. Please read it with a free mind. If you are a Madara hater , then this thread is not for you. Be aware that this is just a theory and that I am not a Madara fanboy, just a fan. My favourite ,Obito , is probably dead. So, I have no reason to defend Madara. It is just that since Naruto is reaching its end, I have my doubts on the future development of the plot. The point of thread is that Madara might still be the real danger. My theory is focused on Madara, Zetsu and Kaguya.
If you believe that Madara is dead, then you should start with spoiler 1. Otherwise, just go to spoiler 2.
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
Conclusion: In 678-679, Madara is probably acting. If he revealed anything to black zetsu, his plan would not work, not when Kaguya is around and watching.
Hope you liked it.
If you believe that Madara is dead, then you should start with spoiler 1. Otherwise, just go to spoiler 2.
1)
Firstly, is Madara really dead like people say? Let's consider manga facts to come up with a logical answer.
Madara really didn't burst. Sasuke said he was going to burst , then we saw Madara about to explode and after that, Sakura noted that he shrunk. So, he didn't really burst but if he continued to expand for another 2 second, then he surely would have died.
2 things indicate Madara didn't burst:
1) Sakura noted that "he" shrunk down.
2) No one mentioned Madara exploding into pieces or dying. If it happened, at least the readers would have been told through either Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto or Kakashi. Madara bursting look like it happened but if you look closely, you will realise that he expanded and then contracted.
If he didn't explode, he didn't die, at least I think so.
You must be registered for see images
Madara really didn't burst. Sasuke said he was going to burst , then we saw Madara about to explode and after that, Sakura noted that he shrunk. So, he didn't really burst but if he continued to expand for another 2 second, then he surely would have died.
2 things indicate Madara didn't burst:
1) Sakura noted that "he" shrunk down.
2) No one mentioned Madara exploding into pieces or dying. If it happened, at least the readers would have been told through either Sasuke, Sakura, Naruto or Kakashi. Madara bursting look like it happened but if you look closely, you will realise that he expanded and then contracted.
If he didn't explode, he didn't die, at least I think so.
2)
Many Naruto manga fans believe that Madara is just a pathetic failure whose plans have constantly failed. I agree that he will never have been revived if it was not for Kabuto's edo tensei but the ploy being enacted currently will not fail. I can affirm this since it has been the most convincing plan, even convincing the majority of us.
But what is Madara's plan?
As Hagoromo stated, Madara wants to attain the chakra fruit. Basically, Madara is seeking power. Madara does not solely want peace. If you continue reading, you will realise that he is evil unlike Obito and Nagato. Obito and Nagato's ways of peace were wrong but were they evil? I shall clarify this in SPOILER 3
- Another interesting thing to notice is the emphasis of the second fruit. If that happened, then Madara would become a real threat. If the fruit could turn Kaguya into a goddess, what would it make Madara? That's what the sage feared. I think he was already aware that his mother would return. He has been travelling through time and he might know about black zetsu. After all, zetus were soldiers created by Kaguya in the past(in Hagoromo's time). If Hagoromo can travel through time and has watched his own sons battle against each other, there is a possibility that he is aware of all the evil ploys happening, one of which being the return of Kaguya. Yet, he primarily feared that Madara would get the fruit. This could be a foreshadow by the mangaka.
But what is Madara's plan?
You must be registered for see images
As Hagoromo stated, Madara wants to attain the chakra fruit. Basically, Madara is seeking power. Madara does not solely want peace. If you continue reading, you will realise that he is evil unlike Obito and Nagato. Obito and Nagato's ways of peace were wrong but were they evil? I shall clarify this in SPOILER 3
- Another interesting thing to notice is the emphasis of the second fruit. If that happened, then Madara would become a real threat. If the fruit could turn Kaguya into a goddess, what would it make Madara? That's what the sage feared. I think he was already aware that his mother would return. He has been travelling through time and he might know about black zetsu. After all, zetus were soldiers created by Kaguya in the past(in Hagoromo's time). If Hagoromo can travel through time and has watched his own sons battle against each other, there is a possibility that he is aware of all the evil ploys happening, one of which being the return of Kaguya. Yet, he primarily feared that Madara would get the fruit. This could be a foreshadow by the mangaka.
3)
Why is Madara evil?
He takes pleasure in fighting and making others suffer.
Another translation mentioned something about crushing skulls.
Those who lack power are weak and ugly- a statement that proves to some extent that he is obsessed with power. Clearly, anyone who lacks power doesn't hold any importance to him.
Caused the death of Rin through his cruel methods.
Notice that his character is different than Obito and Nagato. Madara does not solely desire peace. He is evil too and it is possible that his goal is to seek more power. SPOILER 4 goes into details about Madara's plan.
He takes pleasure in fighting and making others suffer.
You must be registered for see images
Another translation mentioned something about crushing skulls.
Those who lack power are weak and ugly- a statement that proves to some extent that he is obsessed with power. Clearly, anyone who lacks power doesn't hold any importance to him.
You must be registered for see images
Caused the death of Rin through his cruel methods.
You must be registered for see images
Notice that his character is different than Obito and Nagato. Madara does not solely desire peace. He is evil too and it is possible that his goal is to seek more power. SPOILER 4 goes into details about Madara's plan.
4)
Madara's plan is attaining supreme power(the fruit) but his ways of attaining that have constantly changed because of obstacles to his plan. Originally, Madara intended to cast the infinite tsukuyomi and then put everyone into the genjutsu. His plan became more and more difficult as Naruto and Sasuke got powerups and ultimately were on par with him. Yet, Madara has already prepared for this situation. He is a true mastermind and this time, I doubt his plan will failed.
Many people wondered why Madara did this!
It is believed that sheer arrogance caused him to spit out the tools. Yet, this is out of character of Madara. Surely, Madara must know about their power when these were even possessed by Hagoromo.
Well, I don't think it was sheer arrogance. What I believe is that Madara was already aware of Kaguya. Either he felt a presence but didn't recognise who it was or it happened when he became a perfect jinchuriki. At this time, I do not think he was aware who was watching him exactly. Anyway, due to feeling the presence , he spit out the tools, making a plan B possible if Plan A failed.
Then in chapter 678, this happened.
Black zetsu betrayed Madara.
However, there is something strange. It is the bottom left panel of this page.
It seemed like Madara was connecting with someone. Who might it be then? My theory is that it is spiral zetsu. Spiral zetsu does not consist of the black material. You might disagree with me here but I would like to point out that the black matter is the only thing that is Kaguya's will.
Notice here that Obito used the black matter to create back his onmyoudon staff, a combination of yin-yang. It makes sense for black zetsu to be made of yin-yang when he is Kaguya's will. All those who are related to the Juubi can access the black matter which is onmyoudon/yin-yang. Hence, only the black matter is Kaguya's will. Spiral zetsu is a clone of Hashirama but at the same time, very loyal to Madara. I am not sure about other zetsus though. Considering spiral zetsu's abilities and design, I am confident he is different from the others. Spiral zetsu is the key to Madara's plan.
Now, why would Madara relay to spiral zetsu? How could he doubt black zetsu? The answer is simple. Madara is already a sensor(he sensed the presence of hashirama). It is possible that he felt Kaguya's presence and could match the presence and its chakra to black zetsu. After all, sensors can recognise similar chakra types and in Madara's case, he traced the presence right back to spiral zetsu.
What is the role of spiral zetsu, you must ask!
Spiral zetsu is going to use the sage tools or he would cause Naruto and Sasuke to use them by dropping the tools in their location. Of course, the tools would be used on Kaguya. Since Madara is in Kaguya's body, Madara would take advantage of that to cause the sealing of Kaguya. For these tools to work, you need someone to respond. What Madara will do is cause Kaguya's body to respond. Some might disagree, saying that Madara will be sealed at the same time. This is wrong! Kaguya and Madara have their own bodies but since Madara is trapped inside Kaguya, he can influence Kaguya's body to some extent. If someone possesses another in his body, then the latter gets trapped. Ino proved this by possessing Kinkaku , responding in his body and cause him to be sealed.
Now, how is spiral zetsu going to find the tools? It is nearly impossible in this vast battlefield, some might think.
Well, Madara prepared for this. Look at bottom left corner on this manga page.
Remember when Madara tapped the ground? It was also on bottom left corner of a manga page. I must say these two panels are closely related. Also, if you look closely, you will see that Kishimoto is trying to put emphasis on this particular panel and the sage tools.
I do not believe in coincidence. I don't believe that the headband fall coincidentally on the sage's tools. I think Madara purposely dropped them there. The sage's tools were dropped coincidentally too. Madara intended ninjas to take control of them and bring them to try and seal him. That was the plan B: if he is trapped, the tools would be used to liberate him. That was what happened with Kaguya.
Madara's headband's purpose is to indicate the location of the sage's tools. Madara asked Zetsu to go to where his headband is found to find the tools. At least, I think so.
Many people wondered why Madara did this!
You must be registered for see images
It is believed that sheer arrogance caused him to spit out the tools. Yet, this is out of character of Madara. Surely, Madara must know about their power when these were even possessed by Hagoromo.
Well, I don't think it was sheer arrogance. What I believe is that Madara was already aware of Kaguya. Either he felt a presence but didn't recognise who it was or it happened when he became a perfect jinchuriki. At this time, I do not think he was aware who was watching him exactly. Anyway, due to feeling the presence , he spit out the tools, making a plan B possible if Plan A failed.
Then in chapter 678, this happened.
You must be registered for see images
Black zetsu betrayed Madara.
However, there is something strange. It is the bottom left panel of this page.
You must be registered for see images
It seemed like Madara was connecting with someone. Who might it be then? My theory is that it is spiral zetsu. Spiral zetsu does not consist of the black material. You might disagree with me here but I would like to point out that the black matter is the only thing that is Kaguya's will.
You must be registered for see images
Notice here that Obito used the black matter to create back his onmyoudon staff, a combination of yin-yang. It makes sense for black zetsu to be made of yin-yang when he is Kaguya's will. All those who are related to the Juubi can access the black matter which is onmyoudon/yin-yang. Hence, only the black matter is Kaguya's will. Spiral zetsu is a clone of Hashirama but at the same time, very loyal to Madara. I am not sure about other zetsus though. Considering spiral zetsu's abilities and design, I am confident he is different from the others. Spiral zetsu is the key to Madara's plan.
Now, why would Madara relay to spiral zetsu? How could he doubt black zetsu? The answer is simple. Madara is already a sensor(he sensed the presence of hashirama). It is possible that he felt Kaguya's presence and could match the presence and its chakra to black zetsu. After all, sensors can recognise similar chakra types and in Madara's case, he traced the presence right back to spiral zetsu.
What is the role of spiral zetsu, you must ask!
Spiral zetsu is going to use the sage tools or he would cause Naruto and Sasuke to use them by dropping the tools in their location. Of course, the tools would be used on Kaguya. Since Madara is in Kaguya's body, Madara would take advantage of that to cause the sealing of Kaguya. For these tools to work, you need someone to respond. What Madara will do is cause Kaguya's body to respond. Some might disagree, saying that Madara will be sealed at the same time. This is wrong! Kaguya and Madara have their own bodies but since Madara is trapped inside Kaguya, he can influence Kaguya's body to some extent. If someone possesses another in his body, then the latter gets trapped. Ino proved this by possessing Kinkaku , responding in his body and cause him to be sealed.
Now, how is spiral zetsu going to find the tools? It is nearly impossible in this vast battlefield, some might think.
Well, Madara prepared for this. Look at bottom left corner on this manga page.
You must be registered for see images
Remember when Madara tapped the ground? It was also on bottom left corner of a manga page. I must say these two panels are closely related. Also, if you look closely, you will see that Kishimoto is trying to put emphasis on this particular panel and the sage tools.
I do not believe in coincidence. I don't believe that the headband fall coincidentally on the sage's tools. I think Madara purposely dropped them there. The sage's tools were dropped coincidentally too. Madara intended ninjas to take control of them and bring them to try and seal him. That was the plan B: if he is trapped, the tools would be used to liberate him. That was what happened with Kaguya.
Madara's headband's purpose is to indicate the location of the sage's tools. Madara asked Zetsu to go to where his headband is found to find the tools. At least, I think so.
5)
If things are really like this, what is the future of this manga?
What I believe will happen( in chronological order):
1)Kaguya would be overpowered by Naruto and Sasuke and would be weakened. By then, Naruto would have already convinced Kaguya to drop her resolve.
2) While the sage tools are being used, Madara would take the advantage of Kaguya's temporary weakness to take control and cause her to be sealed.
3) Kaguya's body is sealed but her chakra is left back. It is unlikely that she will be sealed with all her chakra. I think she would just be sealed with part of her chakra. The remaining chakra which wasn't sealed in time would remain. Madara would use her chakra to create another fruit like it was foreshadowed during the sage's flashback.
4)Madara gets the power of the fruit.
In the end, Sasuke would be the one to change Madara. Kaguya would be freed and she will return to her home, taking away all chakra without killing anyone.
What I believe will happen( in chronological order):
1)Kaguya would be overpowered by Naruto and Sasuke and would be weakened. By then, Naruto would have already convinced Kaguya to drop her resolve.
2) While the sage tools are being used, Madara would take the advantage of Kaguya's temporary weakness to take control and cause her to be sealed.
3) Kaguya's body is sealed but her chakra is left back. It is unlikely that she will be sealed with all her chakra. I think she would just be sealed with part of her chakra. The remaining chakra which wasn't sealed in time would remain. Madara would use her chakra to create another fruit like it was foreshadowed during the sage's flashback.
4)Madara gets the power of the fruit.
In the end, Sasuke would be the one to change Madara. Kaguya would be freed and she will return to her home, taking away all chakra without killing anyone.
You might think it is impossible to be done within such a short time period when the manga is ending but the above could take a year, hence the manga ending in mid june.
Current events- 15 chapters.
1) 3 chapters
2) 1 chapters
3) 2 chapter
4- Final- 15
36 chapters
Current events- 15 chapters.
1) 3 chapters
2) 1 chapters
3) 2 chapter
4- Final- 15
36 chapters
Conclusion: In 678-679, Madara is probably acting. If he revealed anything to black zetsu, his plan would not work, not when Kaguya is around and watching.
Hope you liked it.
Last edited:
I also would like to see Madara make some kind of comeback. And I agree that it was no coincidence for Madara's headband thing to fall right onto the Sage's tools.
