Army deserters. Do we shoot them or promote them?

[slimreaper]

Bergdahl Rescued.

Let's set something straight so I can point out how horribly the U.S. Congress is running the military right now.

Bergdahl is an American soldier that has been in Taliban custody for the last five years. He ended up in Taliban custody because he purposely left his post in the back of an Afghan contractor truck to smoke hashish and discuss how ashamed he was of American actions against the Middle East. He was then captured and held hostage. Without a single bruise or sign of starvation he openly railed against the U.S. Military and their presence in Afghanistan. As soon as he was reported missing ALL air assets in Afghanistan were diverted to helping find this piece of human stool costing other soldiers their lives as well as the lives of several soldiers sent to look for him on the ground. He was then promoted to the rank of Sergeant while he was captured automatically without having to go to a company, battalion, or promotion board, let alone "grind" for points like the rest of us.

The U.S. Government decided to trade 4 known terrorists for this individual. Four known terrorists that have taken American lives. To get back what? A deserter. A shitbag. The living embodiment of what todays Army strives to weed out. Why? Because we don't leave anyone behind. The fact that we actually negotiated with terrorists for this living piece of human fecal material is a testament to how for our congress has fallen in its drive to gain votes through the ignorance of voters.

This is a perfect example of how the U.S. Congress has driven the modern military into the ground. By rewarding deserters with a sob story and shitting on heroes that were assigned to classified missions. There is no more integrity or loyalty in the field anymore. Only votes.

I want to vomit right now. Maybe its because the knee jerk reaction to this news was to get filthy drunk but I really can't stand the thought of working for these people anymore if they reward someone who by all rights should be standing in front of a firing squad right now while they steal our hard earned benefits.

I'm glad I'm not reenlisting. I'm done with this bullshit.

This whole story pisses me off so much. We all know the reason Obama broke the law to get him back.. because he would have been shot down had he not

 

[Punk Hazard]

Your opinion is irrelevant to the reality of our nature.

Your "enlightenment" is merely your acknowledgment of darkness.

Call it stupid. Call it sad. Call it all the degrading, derogatory terms you want to. 53% of the voters decided your paycheck belongs to them. They are sending someone to collect it. What do you do?

You haven't the slightest clue how to solve the problem because you live in a fantasy world where the only perfection is your own. War is a natural consequence of having differing opinions and views. There are circumstances that cause people to avoid other means of resolution prior to jumping to war... but if all people willing to participate in defending their way of life are stupid and despicable - then there really isn't much you can do, is there?



Only in your pristine little concept of perfection.

This is what is meant by: "The beast that shouts "I" at the heart of the universe."

You decide what is perfect. You decide what should and shouldn't be. You. You. You. That's what it's all about. Your view. Your want. Your desires. Your perfection.

Never once did it occur to you that the universe is perfect and is exactly as it should be. It has never been broken. It has always been. It will forever be.

My place isn't to tell the world how to be perfect. I can't so much as poop without peeing - so what the hell would I be able to tell the universe about being controlled perfection? My place is to understand why the world is perfect.

In a round-about way, even the arrogant nature of man to claim its own sense of perfection (and act according to it) is a part of that perfection. In that sense - even the "unnatural" is part of a greater natural process and could even be understood as an evolution of nature.

"So then why bring it up?"

Because the discourse between the two perspectives is also part of a natural process.

Just as it is natural for one man to seek dominion over another, it is natural for the dominated to act independently and freely. The discourse between the two is as natural as the instincts within the two. So, too, is it natural for people to seek solutions alternative to the destruction that comes with fighting and war. It's also natural for conflicts to exceed the bounds of these solutions.

And? Everyone's opinions are based on their perceptions and experiences of the world.
My opinion is based off of me, me, me.
Yours is you, you, you.
Hes is her, her, her.
That is human nature and doesn't make anyone's opinions less credible or correct.

It is not natural for one man to seek dominion over another. It is natural for animals to do so, but aren't we supposedly higher than animals because of our intelligence? Shouldn't our natural ability to reason put us above this natural inclination to dominate, thus making it NOT our nature? But we haven't gotten above this inclination, which is why I say we failed.

Regardless of if my opinions on war are crafted by some kind of fantasy world or what I view as perfection, we are not perfect. The world of humans and society is far from perfect. Unless you can really say:
Death
Murder
Thievery
Rape
Kidnapping
Terrorists
Corrupted governments
Tyrants
Dictators
War
Famine
Disease
Racism
Sexism
Homophobia
are all perfect.

Can I fix the world? No. But why shouldn't we try? Why shouldn't we point out what's wrong with it? The world is NOT perfect the way it is, you have to be completely deluded to think so.

And can you really deny that war is a terrible thing? What about all the people that say war was hell when they get back, the ones who actually out their in a storm of bullets and bombs, taking lives? All the people who come back with PTSD, and have their lives shattered because of it? And what of the people that don't come back? What of the millions of people who die because of this, the millions who end up disfigured. The thousands of civilians who weren't even fighting and wanted nothing to do with the war? What about all the people that won't wake up the next day because "the universe is perfect as is" and "there is nothing right or wrong with war"? What about all the terrorist organizations that spawn from and create wars? What about all the hate that spawn for different nationalities, religions, ethnicities because of war that just spur new ones? What about the division of the world? The debts that come to be because of war? Can you seriously sit there in your ****ing militarism pride and tell me this shit are NOT bad things?

 

[Aim64C]

And? Everyone's opinions are based on their perceptions and experiences of the world.
My opinion is based off of me, me, me.
Yours is you, you, you.
Hes is her, her, her.
That is human nature and doesn't make anyone's opinions less credible or correct.

This is but one truth that is part of a greater whole you've yet to realize.

It is not natural for one man to seek dominion over another. It is natural for animals to do so, but aren't we supposedly higher than animals because of our intelligence? Shouldn't our natural ability to reason put us above this natural inclination to dominate, thus making it NOT our nature? But we haven't gotten above this inclination, which is why I say we failed.

Intelligence is the ability to recognize patterns and the cognitive ability to postulate upon a beneficial set of patterns to achieve a desired result.

Intelligence is a tool - it is not an ideology.

Regardless of if my opinions on war are crafted by some kind of fantasy world or what I view as perfection, we are not perfect. The world of humans and society is far from perfect. Unless you can really say:
Death
Murder
Thievery
Rape
Kidnapping
Terrorists
Corrupted governments
Tyrants
Dictators
War
Famine
Disease
Racism
Sexism
Homophobia
are all perfect.

Ask one person whether or not a man is a homophobe - then ask another whether or not that same person is a homophobe. You will often come up with different answers.

What I would feel is sexism against me is not what you would consider is sexism against you.

The only thing your view of perfection leads to is a world of you.

Can I fix the world? No. But why shouldn't we try? Why shouldn't we point out what's wrong with it? The world is NOT perfect the way it is, you have to be completely deluded to think so.

The world is nothing it is not supposed to be.

Yours is the perspective of the chemistry student who looks to his instructor: "Is it supposed to do this?"

As if the world would somehow do something it wasn't supposed to do. There is nothing wrong with the chemicals the student mixed together. There is nothing wrong with the reaction. The only problem is that the student believed the outcome should be something other than the way things should be based on the elements involved.

The world behaves exactly as it is supposed to. If you can't bring yourself to understand the forces of the world - then how can you possibly hope to gain any amount of influence over their actions?

You're just throwing the good smelling chemicals into the swirling chaos of what's already in motion in the hopes that all that it will settle into something approximating your expectations.

And can you really deny that war is a terrible thing? What about all the people that say war was hell when they get back, the ones who actually out their in a storm of bullets and bombs, taking lives? All the people who come back with PTSD, and have their lives shattered because of it? And what of the people that don't come back? What of the millions of people who die because of this, the millions who end up disfigured. The thousands of civilians who weren't even fighting and wanted nothing to do with the war? What about all the people that won't wake up the next day because "the universe is perfect as is" and "there is nothing right or wrong with war"? What about all the terrorist organizations that spawn from and create wars? What about all the hate that spawn for different nationalities, religions, ethnicities because of war that just spur new ones? What about the division of the world? The debts that come to be because of war? Can you seriously sit there in your ****ing militarism pride and tell me this shit are NOT bad things?

And here is where you illustrate just how little you actually know and how juvenile your view is.

Of course war destroys people (in more ways than one) - that's kind of the point of it.

But here is what you need to understand. I'm a pithy little sub-human piece of shit, and I realize that you have a farm and are doing quite well for yourself. I think you should give me 2% of your harvest.

Why, you ask?

Well, you see - I keep the wolves away from your cattle. No wolves? - Exactly. No? You won't pay? My, that's a pretty daughter you've got, there. Would sure be a shame if she went missing. Now best you just agree or things will get a little rough around here.

The same for the blacksmith, any other farms in my 'territory,' etc.

How do you deal with that? Line up, link arms, and sing "no we won't" as I drive forks into the eyes of the guy standing next to you?

"That's silly, we'd just stab a fork in you."

And the fifteen other people I've convinced to follow my lead in that type of lifestyle?

"We'll stab them, too."

Now it's a war.

There will always be those who realize that they can use force as an expedient means to an end. This is because we are intelligent creatures and have the ability to understand how to manipulate the environment and other people.

We manipulate each other on a daily basis without even realizing that we are actually trying to engineer the response of another person. We exaggerate, place emphasis on things not because we feel they are important - but because we know they are important to others. It's not inherently wrong - but it is an example that our nature gravitates toward manipulation, even if minor and without malice.

At some point, you encounter an attempt to manipulate you that you are unwilling, or physically incapable of complying with. What then?

The problem with your 'perfection' is that it requires others to comply with your view. Every child born has to be somehow purged of the ability to conceive of taking sexual actions without the consent of the other. As if somehow the actions of each individual are completely dependent upon what the rest of society does. So if you can change society - then you can somehow prevent bad things from happening.

"If... if everyone would just think happy thoughts!"

And if I don't think your happy thoughts?

Then I must be part of the problem, right? I'm keeping you from being happy. I'm standing in the way of your perfection.

Human beings readily reduce to sociopaths. They lapse into and out of sociopathic behavior without ever realizing it because they have never once been confronted with the reality of their behavior. War causes many people to confront that reality head-on. They kill someone who was on the verge of killing them, then discover their kids cowering in a corner, somewhere. The "us versus them" stirred up by politicians (warlords) does not survive prolonged contact with the enemy.

Many people simply can't deal with that reality. Some shelve it and just try their best not to think about it. Others get consumed by it and spend their lives medicated or locked away from the world.

It's actually ironic, having this discussion on this forum. All of Shipuuden has been about this very discussion.

I'm most curious to see what conclusion Kishimoto has arrived at. All indications I am seeing point towards Kishimoto siding with Taoist and Buddhist concepts of enlightenment and ends to the cycle of human suffering... but I think he is going to try and communicate it through an ideologically perfected world of the mundane as the ending (with the dialogue indicating the state is merely temporary with a hopeful note for the future that will encounter separate trials and tribulations).

 

[Jin Hayami]

Look. So many people have missed the point. This thread is not about the governments involvement in Afghanistan. It's about an AMERICAN SOLDIER. A grown man who signed a contract and swore an oath. He then he then completed training and deployed with his unit. In the time it takes you to do that you learn to love the guys around you like family. You can't help it when you are thrown into an environment where everyone is a stranger and you have to endure a whole mess of bullshit. Then when you get to your unit you get hazed until you rank up or prove yourself. Then you're one of the boys. Just like a fraternity. Then you deploy and you spend every single minute with the same dudes and you get to know them better than you know your family. Through all this you are expected to do two things. As much work as everyone else and put them before yourself. That's it. Your selfish perceptions and beliefs are worthless in the military because there is only one reality. The soldiers around you back you and support you through anything. Whether the chain of command ****s you. Your wife leaves you. You get blown to shit and need blood pumped straight into your body. Someone will help you. He then chose to ABANDON THEM IN A COMBAT ZONE. This led to a search to recover him. This search led to soldiers who upheld their SWORN OATH losing their LIVES. Just to make this clear again. Think about at least six sets of parents. Wives. Brothers. Sisters. And children. He ****ed them. We now have more evidence that he didn't just do it to get high but he sent emails railing against the military and the government. That he sought out the enemy. The men who want to kill his friends. That shows me malicious intent in his actions.

Can you honestly tell me that Bowe Bergdahl doesn't deserve a court martial at least for desertion if not full blown treason? That making him an NCO which is something a lot of people hold sacred for the responsibilities and respect that it represents is justified? When he hasn't even fulfilled the basic requirements to earn it? They say it's easier to forgive an enemy than a friend. That's because you expect an enemy to **** you and prepare for it. When a friend ****s you it's devastating.

Sorry for the late response I've been working.