[VS] A vs Itachi

[Stxluciferr]

Lol. What makes you believe Naruto was using any of the speed there that he used against A? Especially when he had his chakra divided by 12 clones?

Shadow clones don't divide speed

 

[A e r o]

So now a genjutsu less itachi can defeat a taijutsu specialist in taijutsu. K.

 

[Braiyan]

Shadow clones don't divide speed

Spoiler

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You still haven't answered the question. What makes you believe Naruto was using any of the speed there that he used against A?

 

[Stxluciferr]

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You still haven't answered the question. What makes you believe Naruto was using any of the speed there that he used against A?

Just because FTG doesn't work properly with clones does not mean the regular speed of a clone is affected. When naruto fought with beast kage his speed seemed fine.

What makes you think he didn't

 

[Stxluciferr]

Spoiler

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You still haven't answered the question. What makes you believe Naruto was using any of the speed there that he used against A?

Just because FTG doesn't work properly with clones does not mean the regular speed of a clone is affected. When naruto fought with beast kage his speed seemed fine.

What makes you think he didn't

 

[Braiyan]

Just because FTG doesn't work properly with clones does not mean the regular speed of a clone is affected. When naruto fought with beast kage his speed seemed fine.

What makes you think he didn't

- Yes, it does. FTG is teleportation. It can't get any faster or slower. The only speed that would be involved would be in its user's reflexes, or in other words, their ability to perform the jutsu in time. If Tobirama said using FTG with the clones would be too slow, then clearly that means the clones' reflexes would be too slow to activate the jutsu in time. As for your point about the Third Raikage, nowhere was it stated that he was as fast as V2 A.

- The fact that all that their exchange amounted to was Naruto jumping up towards Itachi, and casually exchanging a few blows whilst sharing intel on Obito and the war.

That is nothing compared to Naruto

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trying to

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A multiple times, even

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distractions such as

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in an attempt to get past him.

 

[Stxluciferr]

- Yes, it does. FTG is teleportation. It can't get any faster or slower. The only speed that would be involved would be in its user's reflexes, or in other words, their ability to perform the jutsu in time. If Tobirama said using FTG with the clones would be too slow, then clearly that means the clones' reflexes would be too slow to activate the jutsu in time. As for your point about the Third Raikage, nowhere was it stated that he was as fast as V2 A.

- The fact that all that their exchange amounted to was Naruto jumping up towards Itachi, and casually exchanging a few blows whilst sharing intel on Obito and the war.

That is nothing compared to Naruto

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trying to

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A multiple times, even

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distractions such as

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in an attempt to get past him.

No. Nowhere does it say the reflexes are what slows down. It explicitedly states that the FTG itself is too slow. One could interpret that as FTG no longer being instant when performed with a clone.

And if the reflexes of a clone themselves are affected they are still not going to significantly slow or speed someone up. Chiyo increased Sakura's reflexes but did not make Sakura herself significantly faster. In other words even if the reflexes are slightly slower they are not significantly slowing the clone/person down enough to matter. It mattered in the scan provided because at that point every nano second counted. Even if Beastkage isn't as fast as Ay( and I don't believe it said that anywhere) Naruto still appeared to be superior speed wise.

Just because he is trying to exchange information with Itachi doesn't mean he would sacrifice speed as the slower he goes the more likely he is to have to engage which would be counter productive.

Edit: If you believe he could have gone faster than he could have just danced circles around Itachi while they talked.

 

[Draphsin]

Sasuke did not hit A with Amaterasu. A himself made the conscious decision to come into contact with Amaterasu, something he has no need to do here. And there's literally nothing stopping A from replicating the situation in which he dodged Amaterasu, as it was a result of his own abilities.

And? That doesn't change the fact that he was hit because of the situation at hand. Yeah Ay dodged amaterasu, but he didn't dodge madara's susanoo when it grabbed him, does that make madara's susanoo faster than Ay? No, The situation was that madara had put him in a position where he was either unable or refused to dodge.

Same situation applies here, so what if Ay is fast enough to dodge amaterasu? So what if he let sasuke hit him? Point is that he got hit, & it did damage to him, meaning that it is a factor in this fight.

 

[Braiyan]

No. Nowhere does it say the reflexes are what slows down. It explicitedly states that the FTG itself is too slow. One could interpret that as FTG no longer being instant when performed with a clone.

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And if the reflexes of a clone themselves are affected they are still not going to significantly slow or speed someone up. Chiyo increased Sakura's reflexes but did not make Sakura herself significantly faster. In other words even if the reflexes are slightly slower they are not significantly slowing the clone/person down enough to matter. It mattered in the scan provided because at that point every nano second counted.

But you're assuming that the use of clones only slightly slows down reflexes, when the implication is that it affects a user's power just as much as it divides their chakra, seen by the fact that

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. There was nothing in the scan stating that their reflexes were only slightly lowered. All Tobirama said was that using clones would be too slow.

Even if Beastkage isn't as fast as Ay( and I don't believe it said that anywhere) Naruto still appeared to be superior speed wise.

Only when Sage Mode came into play.

Just because he is trying to exchange information with Itachi doesn't mean he would sacrifice speed as the slower he goes the more likely he is to have to engage which would be counter productive.

That doesn't make any sense. Naruto had enough time to have a conversation with Itachi whilst exchanging blows with him. Something he was not able to do with A. If he had enough time to do that then he's clearly not using the same level of speed. Not to mention the fact that there's nothing counterproductive about prolonging the fight if the whole point of the fight was to exchange information.

Edit: If you believe he could have gone faster than he could have just danced circles around Itachi while they talked.

Why would he do that when he was just trying to talk to Itachi?

And? That doesn't change the fact that he was hit because of the situation at hand. Yeah Ay dodged amaterasu, but he didn't dodge madara's susanoo when it grabbed him, does that make madara's susanoo faster than Ay? No, The situation was that madara had put him in a position where he was either unable or refused to dodge.

Which is again an irrelevant situation since Itachi does not have 5 Susano'o clones to occupy A with and Tsunade is not in this matchup for A to be distracted by.

Same situation applies here, so what if Ay is fast enough to dodge amaterasu?

How is Itachi going to hit A with Amaterasu if he can dodge it?

So what if he let sasuke hit him?

It matters because he is not likely to do the same here. He is not enraged and ready for vengeance. Itachi did not kidnap and potentially kill his brother.

Point is that he got hit, & it did damage to him, meaning that it is a factor in this fight.

Only if A allows himself to be hit by it for some reason. Something made harder by the fact that he has the tools to dodge it.

 

[Stxluciferr]

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But you're assuming that the use of clones only slightly slows down reflexes, when the implication is that it affects a user's power just as much as it divides their chakra, seen by the fact that

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. There was nothing in the scan stating that their reflexes were only slightly lowered. All Tobirama said was that using clones would be too slow.



Only when Sage Mode came into play.



That doesn't make any sense. Naruto had enough time to have a conversation with Itachi whilst exchanging blows with him. Something he was not able to do with A. If he had enough time to do that then he's clearly not using the same level of speed. Not to mention the fact that there's nothing counterproductive about prolonging the fight if the whole point of the fight was to exchange information.



Why would he do that when he was just trying to talk to Itachi?

In the scans you provided the FTG wasn't quick enough to save naruto from obito before sasuke had to step in

I was responding to your assumption that the reflexes were slowed

Just because your going fast doesn't mean you can't talk

He didn't want to fight Itach. If he had more speed he could have avoided Itachi altogether while they spoke

Edit: I missed this, kcm state is what was outspeeding Beastkage. Sm was only used to perceive and avoid the final attack because kcm ran out

 

[genii96]

I see what your saying, but Itachi's MS is on another level from Sasukes. It allowed him to hang with kcm Naruto who is supposedly faster than Ay. If he can follow Naruto while he is a canically less powerful edo tensei while being controlled by someone else, he should have little trouble moving his head fast enough for Amaterasu to spawn onto to Ay.

Itachi is both faster and has better reactions than Ms Sasuke. Also Ay can't keep V2 speed up. Even if he could avoid Amaterasu in V2 (which he can't) In between the lay over time he has no way to counter Amaterasu, as even Sasukes less effective Ms could keep up with V1

And on top of that though Sasuke could not completely see V2 Ay. Scans prove he could slightly follow him.

itachi's ms is on another level in terms of genjutsu,sasuke is better at amaterasu usage,theur susanoos are the same bar the sacred tools itachi has.
V1 ay casually kept up with kcm naruto while simultaneously holding off bee too and overwhelmed him in taijutsu,sending him flying with a single punch.
Edo tensei dosent make you weaker,it does that only when you are being fully controlled by the caster. Onoki said muu's strength hadnt reduced at all when they clashed.
Kcm naruto was casually talking with itachi too,so that dosent mean he can keep up with his full speed.
A younger ay in v2 had his fist at minato's face before the latter could move,his saving grace was that he had thrown kunai already,itachi's reflexes dont surpass minato's.
Sasuke couldnt follow ay at all,he just warped his enton around his ribcage on all sides to protect himself. Only when ay jumped up to hit him,thus sacrificing speed for force did sasuke manage to see him.
Itachi is faster yes,but he still isnt reacting to v2 ay.
Ay was in v1 when he evaded the susanoos,so if itachi brings out susanoo,ay can evade it with just v1,he only needs v2 for amaterasu,and itachi's eye bleeding will give him the notice.

Also why cant he hold v2 for long?,where does it say that?.

 

[LustyLover]

Hi Itachi wins

 

[Stxluciferr]

itachi's ms is on another level in terms of genjutsu,sasuke is better at amaterasu usage,theur susanoos are the same bar the sacred tools itachi has.
V1 ay casually kept up with kcm naruto while simultaneously holding off bee too and overwhelmed him in taijutsu,sending him flying with a single punch.
Edo tensei dosent make you weaker,it does that only when you are being fully controlled by the caster. Onoki said muu's strength hadnt reduced at all when they clashed.
Kcm naruto was casually talking with itachi too,so that dosent mean he can keep up with his full speed.
A younger ay in v2 had his fist at minato's face before the latter could move,his saving grace was that he had thrown kunai already,itachi's reflexes dont surpass minato's.
Sasuke couldnt follow ay at all,he just warped his enton around his ribcage on all sides to protect himself. Only when ay jumped up to hit him,thus sacrificing speed for force did sasuke manage to see him.
Itachi is faster yes,but he still isnt reacting to v2 ay.
Ay was in v1 when he evaded the susanoos,so if itachi brings out susanoo,ay can evade it with just v1,he only needs v2 for amaterasu,and itachi's eye bleeding will give him the notice.

Also why cant he hold v2 for long?,where does it say that?.

Ms itachi is greater than Ms Sasuke in basically every aspect accept Amaterasu.

This would imply that v1 Ay is significantly faster than kcm Naruto who kept up with/out maneuvered the third raikage. This means we have a bit a of a problem. It would mean Ms Sasuke is faster than kcm naruto, and with itachi being faster than Sasuke, it also makes him faster than kcm naruto.

I retracted my edo tensi point

I already spoke about them having a conversation

Minato's non FTG reflexes are not superior to Itachi's

When Ay dodges Amaterasu Sasuke turns his head in attempt to follow him. Which means he could slightly see him.

Ay hasn't been shown to be able to keep the V2 shroud up for long periods

 

[EdoItachi]

Ay wins this mid diff. Itachi can't match his speed even if he uses Susanoo to defend himself he can only use it for a short amount of time seeing and it's not fast enough to catch Ay. The only way I could see Itachi winning this is if he managed to catch Ay with tsukiyomi but it's been restricted anyway.

 

[LustyLover]

Ay wins this mid diff. Itachi can't match his speed even if he uses Susanoo to defend himself he can only use it for a short amount of time seeing and it's not fast enough to catch Ay. The only way I could see Itachi winning this is if he managed to catch Ay with tsukiyomi but it's been restricted anyway.

Itachi has shown both enough speed and response time to match Ay's speed. He's not getting blitzed if Sasuke, who Itachi blitzed, was able to keep up with Ay's speed. Itachi would of blitzed Kabuto's head off but instead settled for his horn because he didn't want to kill him, and Kabuto has sensing capabilities. Ay can only maintain his armor for so long as well.

 

[Braiyan]

In the scans you provided the FTG wasn't quick enough to save naruto from obito before sasuke had to step in

That was not an issue of FTG not being fast enough. That was an issue of Minato not having a place to teleport to since the marking on Obito had vanished.

I was responding to your assumption that the reflexes were slowed

And I provided a response and scans that encompassed that. Reflexes are part of a user's power, power that is weakened when clones are used, as confirmed by both the inventor of the Kage Bunshin Jutsu and Madara.

Just because your going fast doesn't mean you can't talk

Because ... you say so? Again, Naruto had time to hold an entire conversation with Itachi whilst exchanging and dodging blows from him. He did nothing of the sort against A. He was too busy either trying to use his speed to overwhelm A's, or taking advantage of A being distracted by Bee to attempt to bypass him.

He didn't want to fight Itach. If he had more speed he could have avoided Itachi altogether while they spoke

He had no need to avoid Itachi altogether. All Itachi was doing was throwing a few punches which were easily blocked/parried. Naruto was not pressured at all in that fight, whereas he clearly was against A.

Edit: I missed this, kcm state is what was outspeeding Beastkage. Sm was only used to perceive and avoid the final attack because kcm ran out

That clone outmaneuvered the Third Raikage (who again has not been stated to be as fast as his son) with chakra arms, not with speed.

 

[cafe123]

A wins, Itachi would not hit him with the Amaterasu, he has the advantage with the Susanoo, he will be invincible against A for the time period however, A would not get caught by the sword and outlast Itachi to a high-diff win.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If Ay can beat Itachi, then Itachi gets murdered by 50% of the main characters in Bleach in a blink

 

[Stxluciferr]

Dam I got to give y'all this win. I was confused on something and ended up kinda asking for help

 

[EdoItachi]

If Ay can beat Itachi, then Itachi gets murdered by 50% of the main characters in Bleach in a blink

And bleach characters are relevant why?