Misconception : There is no counter to kamui. Truth: There are several counters.
- Thread starter Naestro
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1. You can create physical sensation with shadow clones since everything the clone experiences comes back to the user, any jutsu that connects/hits to the target is a physical sensation specially ninjutsu. Even if the user blocks your punch, it still connects to your physical body. I already explained this in an above statement as a reply to someone.
2. About shadow clones, that could be said about every jutsu even Kamui. Kamui could work also could not work depending on the situation on their target. It can be litterally said about any jutsu that exists, even any actions that exist in our own world.
3. You did not read what i wrote, you don't need just ms. You need a sharingan and "KEKKIE GENKAI" not just a ms. MS is better but is not necessary. I even posted a proof on it. Watch that video and skip it to the fight between Kakashi and Itachi. Listen to what he says.
I just wrote in a reply, that any physical contact is a physical sensation. Even if it is the clones that does the contact, the experience, memory and the sensation comes back to the creator of the clone. Even blocking an attack from your opponent counts as physical sensation WHICH was demonstrated in that fight between that random Uchicha izanagi user and that random IZANAMI FEMALE user Itachi told to kabuto and sasuke about.
Go read it yourself again please, because Minato was aware it was a TELEPORTATION jutsu. He was NOT aware of the other dimension. He did not know that this technique teleports the user not only in his world but another dimension too. Your point is invalid still.
EDIT: Yes i also apologize because i forgot that part, but if you remember that fight, Minato was standing on his statu, Obito appeared from his back and tried to absorb him without mentioning any jutsu name therefore he was unaware wether Obito used the teleportation jutsu or something else.
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1.dude were talking about kamui. if i phase through your attack there is no physical sensation as you never physically touched me. and we both have to physically experience it not just you. also no reason to absorb a clone just hit it. hitting the clone is a counter to your clone argument and not izanami itself
3. you didnt understand what i wrote either. you said tsukuyomi > kamui but thats like saying its > fire ball jutsu. a genjutsu can not effect kamu and neither can it effect say a water dragon. if you want to use obito then i can say obito who has a rinnegan, is immune to visual genjutsu as stated in the manga
also what you seem to be doing is instead of fighting that each point counters kamui, your mixing them together to beat kamui like shadow clones with izanimi instead of just shadow clones or just izanami
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1. Yes he can just phase through that 5 minutes, BUT if he just stays intangible for 5 minutes then he will not be able to attack or kamui his target, at one point or another he has to become tangible which results in confrontation wether physical or any other sort. The importance is that he has to become tangible to use his own jutsu. There is no reason to absorb a clone obviously, but you DON'T KNOW ITS A CLONE. Obito is not a sensor type, so that he knows weither its a clone or not.
2. I never said to Tsukuyomi the Kamui LOOOOOOOOOOOOL, WTF are you even talking about (at this point im just lmao) DUDE, you Tsukuyomi the TARGET not the object or the jutsu. The target is OBITO. I have no idea how you could think otherwise, i couldn't be clearer. Why would anyone Tsukuyomi a jutsu hahahaha makes no sense.
1.dude were talking about kamui. if i phase through your attack there is no physical sensation as you never physically touched me. and we both have to physically experience it not just you. also no reason to absorb a clone just hit it. hitting the clone is a counter to your clone argument and not izanami itself
3. you didnt understand what i wrote either. you said tsukuyomi > kamui but thats like saying its > fire ball jutsu. a genjutsu can not effect kamu and neither can it effect say a water dragon. if you want to use obito then i can say obito who has a rinnegan, is immune to visual genjutsu as stated in the manga
also what you seem to be doing is instead of fighting that each point counters kamui, your mixing them together to beat kamui like shadow clones with izanimi instead of just shadow clones or just izanami
to your last post about clones you forget that you dont have to kamui your whole body. if first hit goes for obito's face he can kamui face while punching you. meaning he can defend and attack at the same time
3. you didnt understand what i wrote either. you said tsukuyomi > kamui but thats like saying its > fire ball jutsu. a genjutsu can not effect kamu and neither can it effect say a water dragon. if you want to use obito then i can say obito who has a rinnegan, is immune to visual genjutsu as stated in the manga
also what you seem to be doing is instead of fighting that each point counters kamui, your mixing them together to beat kamui like shadow clones with izanimi instead of just shadow clones or just izanami
to your last post about clones you forget that you dont have to kamui your whole body. if first hit goes for obito's face he can kamui face while punching you. meaning he can defend and attack at the same time
I disagree with 1 and 2.
3 will work if the Kamui user doesn't just warp into the other dimension and get rid of the clone. Regardless it could still be used to create diversions and openings.
4 is a perfect way to avoid being warped. Although once inside the dimension, the FTG user won't be able to sense the markings or kunai in the real world so he won't be able to FTG out of there. Although there has been a theory about being able to sense the chakra in the real world while the portal is still open. Which means it might be possible for a FTG user to teleport out while Kamui is being used to warp (since the portal between the two dimensions will be open)
Regardless, good thread.
3 will work if the Kamui user doesn't just warp into the other dimension and get rid of the clone. Regardless it could still be used to create diversions and openings.
4 is a perfect way to avoid being warped. Although once inside the dimension, the FTG user won't be able to sense the markings or kunai in the real world so he won't be able to FTG out of there. Although there has been a theory about being able to sense the chakra in the real world while the portal is still open. Which means it might be possible for a FTG user to teleport out while Kamui is being used to warp (since the portal between the two dimensions will be open)
Regardless, good thread.
1. I understand what you're saying, but you don't understand what i'm saying or you don't understand how kamui works. Yes he can phase through 1 hit, but I never said you create 1 shadow clone. I said shadows clones is a good option to use. For example:
User creates 4 shadow clones each clone attacks from different side, now he is not going to just intangle one part of his body because all of his hit points are covered, you will have to intangible your whole body to escape or most of it. But you have to understand Kamui as a whole is like amaterasu, it is short, medium and long range. It is a skill shot meaning you have to be precise if you will shoot it from far, you can absorb the wrong guy like a clone if you don't know if its the real deal or just a clone. He can't kamui someone unless he teleports himself there and makes himself tangible then absorb him.
Proof is fight against Kakashi & Naruto vs Obito ( I will poste the link to it in your profile soon, i just don't want to search it right now.)
2. I never once stated that Tsukuyomi > Kamui, i said it is a good counter it ONLY if one can make eye contact to the target. One eye contact is all needed to get the USER not kamui but the USER to be under the Genjutsu. (Read my thread again on that point, I said that you tsukuyomi the user not kamui lol). Just like tsukuyomi, kamui is a skill shot. It may work or it may not work, it's not hit proof that it's gonna hit everyone you aim or else obito would have killed everyone he faced so far which he hasn't.
Notice you skipped 2. LOL, you wrote 1, finished your point then wrote 3, xD. Of course i'm mixing jutsu's you'll never beat someone with one jutsu. Obito has never used just kamui to win fights, he has used fireball and other jutsu's for offense and defense but he uses mainly kamui.
To your last point my title could be misleading, but my topic is very clear. There are two users of kamui by writting that as a title i meant that Obito and Kakashi are not invincible because of kamui, there are ways to counter kamui that both Obito and Kakashi use.
EDIT : The kamui user has to become tangible to use Kamui though, because he has to teleport to its target and when he does hes tangible, Obito and Kakashi cannot use kamui 2x at the same time, meaning they kamui is a skill shot, you use it once at a time. You cannot kamui 2 different objects at 2 different places at the same time. He can only do that with his own body as a defense but as soon as he wants to go on offense he has to make that part of his body tangible. Proof : Obito fight against Minato, Obito fight against Kakashi and Naruto. Watch the anime episodes, you'll see it's better illustrated in animation.
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~Ethereal~
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Of course the kamui user can get around 1 & 2 but it still does not make it useless, Someone like Itachi, Shishui and Madara (If madara knows how to use Tsukuyomi, i assume he does since he knows how to use INFINITE tsukuyomi.) They will be easily able to do so.
Kamui can be gotten around too just like 1 & 2. Because if kamui was a hit proof, meaning it hits everytime it targets. Then everyone obito faced would die, which didn't. lol
Kamui is a skill-shot just like amaterasu. Like every skill shot you either miss or you hit, depends on the user.
Mark Sanchez
Active member
Which kamui are we talking about
Kakashi's kamui or Obito's Kamui
or Double MS Obito in the manga right now
Kakashi's kamui or Obito's Kamui
or Double MS Obito in the manga right now
i dont understand your edit as im only talking about obito kamui'ing him self to avoid being hit and then striking you. not sucking you inside kamui just let you phase through him while he hits you. like when he pinned naruto down but kakashi and guy attacked him. he phased through them but his hand was still on naruto's head. he can fight of clones like that and with wood style it makes it easier.
2. i made this post before you clarified that you meant obito. obito with rinnegan immune to it as stated by jirairy(or the toad sages i dont remember). you havent posted a counter so i going to take this as a win.
and about your 2. from your last post. there was nothing for me to say. it really comes down to the user. obito could get out of it but then again it might not be able to. i wouldnt give shadow clones a win on its own but certainly with another jutsu yea.
also just to point out i disagree with ft users getting out of kamui land but i agree that its a counter
It's for kamui as a whole. I hope you read each points i made when i chose these things. I do not want to get into repeating myself =P
I repeated everything i wrote in this thread so many times i'm tired =[
I explained each point thoroughly, It will take you all 1/10 of the time i wrote this thread to read it and understand it.
Basically Kamui as a whole is like a amaterasu, a skill-shot based jutsu. Difference being one burns you to death unless you cut off the area that is burned on your body, the other teleports you to a place where you can't comeback from, But both are dodge-able and can be countered. The users of both techniques are beatable.
I repeated everything i wrote in this thread so many times i'm tired =[
I explained each point thoroughly, It will take you all 1/10 of the time i wrote this thread to read it and understand it.
Basically Kamui as a whole is like a amaterasu, a skill-shot based jutsu. Difference being one burns you to death unless you cut off the area that is burned on your body, the other teleports you to a place where you can't comeback from, But both are dodge-able and can be countered. The users of both techniques are beatable.
Conspirator.
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These are the counters for kamui:
A: Kamui
B:FTG to some extent
C: Madara's limbo
D: Exceptional speed. But the only ones in this category are Rikudo naruto and sasuke with his rinnegan teleportation
E: Izanagi is anther counter-but that's temporary.
Everyone else gets raped.
A: Kamui
B:FTG to some extent
C: Madara's limbo
D: Exceptional speed. But the only ones in this category are Rikudo naruto and sasuke with his rinnegan teleportation
E: Izanagi is anther counter-but that's temporary.
Everyone else gets raped.
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Brotha, I don't sit infront of computer all day waiting for your reply. I have other things to do, that's why i didn't respond just after you posted your argument.
Your first point, can you link me to that episode/chapter please. I need to watch/read it before i make my counter-argument.
2. I have no clue why you're talking about obito rinnegan, now i'm just confused by your statement.
NOTE : You must understand I'm not saying that shadow clones completely counters kamui, it can be used as a way to counter it. It is not a direct counter to Kamui, like IZANAMI is to IZANAGI. But you do not need IZANAMI to counter IZANAGI, you can just kill the Izanagi user in some way to counter it too, but IZANAMI is just an easier way ofc the bad part is that you will lose one of your eyes.