Could Itachi really have surpassed Madara?

[LustyLover]

No. Madara is superior to Itachi in practically every way, that's not even counting MS.

You think Madara without the Sharingan can beat Itachi? I probably read that wrong though.

 

[Lightbringer]

You think Madara without the Sharingan can beat Itachi? I probably read that wrong though.

Yeah. Just look at the size of his Katon.

He was able to defeat a legion with taijutsu alone.

He was also able to fend off EMS Sasuke and defeat Hashirama while blind

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[LustyLover]

Yeah. Just look at the size of his Katon.

He was able to defeat a legion with taijutsu alone.

He was also able to fend off EMS Sasuke and defeat Hashirama while blind

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Except that Madara at that time was basically him and Hashirama combined, along with the fact that he was an Edo AND had Rinnegan. In other words, unlimited chakra and stamina. Btw, a person with agility like Itachi could easily jump over it.

 

[Kamui Sama]

I don't think he would be Madara level but he would be pretty damn powerful

 

[Conspirator.]

@Holy Eyes
Yes, base madara beats base itachi with no more than mid difficulty. Madara katons are far greater than Itachi's. Itachi was getting overpowered by Sasuke's CM enhanced fireball jutsu and was forced to use amaterasu to defend himself. Madara's katons downright overpower him. Itachi's genjutsu is a non factor, and madara has shown better speed feats. Even while blind and without hashirama's SM, he blitzed the shit out of SM naruto, and his physical strength is greater. On top of that, a CQC bout won't end well for Itachi,as madara's gunbai tanks all of his attacks like clone explosions. Madara is superior in base, so EMS madara would likely be stronger than ems itachi.

@Hiddensound
I admit, Itachi's genjutsu is better, but that's not relevant to this matchup.

 

[Lightbringer]

Except that Madara at that time was basically him and Hashirama combined, along with the fact that he was an Edo AND had Rinnegan. In other words, unlimited chakra and stamina. Btw, a person with agility like Itachi could easily jump over it.

I thought we were talking about Madara without sharingan? How much more do we have to nerf him for you to be satisfied?

Madara's chakra pool was stated to be the greatest among Uchiha history. He fought a full 24 hours against Hashirama and a group of senju when he obtained the EMS.

Him being an edo doesn't mean anything in regards to the size of his jutsu. Rinnegan doesn't enhance the power of your jutsu either. It only opens up new paths. The only thing that enhances jutsu is senjutsu.

Madara didn't use Senjutsu when he cast his Katon against the alliance.


Madara was able to defeat an FTG user. FTG is instantaneous travel.

He also outmaneuvered EMS Sasuke while blind.

If he can do that, he can overpower Itachi's speed.

 

[Senju Bean]

No because he isnt Indra.

Even if he didn't have AIDs, he would cap out at a certain level.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

If Itachi was as power hungry as Madara was, he would of surpassed Madara in a heartbeat. He could of easily stole Oro's DNA and gained Senju DNA from him when he had him immobilized. And, yes, he would of gained the Rinnegan, because the Uchiha are already direct descendants of Indra, and the Senju Ashura. It is a mix of Indra and Ashura.

YM+ PS along with the Rinnegan would of made him essentially invincible. Spammable Izanagi, constant healing, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Koto Amatsukami would of made him incredibly powerful. In fact, what if Itachi, instead of taking both of Sasuke's eyes, decided to implant Shisui's in one and Sasuke's in the other? He could use KA infinitely that way with no reprieve and still have the advantages of all his dojutsu's techniques, as well as possibly obtain a separately unique technique.

It was explained that Madara alone got the Rinnegan because he specifically combined Indra's and Ashura's chakra, while others (Obito and Danzo) who combined Uchiha and Senju D.N.A. did not get the Rinnegan because they didn't have the two specific chakras.

So Madara also has spammable Izanagi and thus Itachi cannot defeat him. But you're assuming Itachi knows Izanagi, and you are assuming EMS will allow the user to spam it. At this point, it seems highly unlikely.
Itachi could not use Koto Amatsukami without implanting into himself along with Hashirama's cells. However, Itachi would lose Tsukiyomi and very possibly wouldn't be able to use Susanoo anymore. Shisui's eye would also gradually go blind, just so you know.

He wouldn't get a new jutsu.

You think Madara without the Sharingan can beat Itachi? I probably read that wrong though.

Yes.

Madara has tons of powerful jutsus. He doesn't need to rely on the Sharingan's power unlike Itachi.

Except that Madara at that time was basically him and Hashirama combined, along with the fact that he was an Edo AND had Rinnegan. In other words, unlimited chakra and stamina. Btw, a person with agility like Itachi could easily jump over it.

Hahaha!!!

@Holy Eyes
Yes, base madara beats base itachi with no more than mid difficulty. Madara katons are far greater than Itachi's. Itachi was getting overpowered by Sasuke's CM enhanced fireball jutsu and was forced to use amaterasu to defend himself. Madara's katons downright overpower him. Itachi's genjutsu is a non factor, and madara has shown better speed feats. Even while blind and without hashirama's SM, he blitzed the shit out of SM naruto, and his physical strength is greater. On top of that, a CQC bout won't end well for Itachi,as madara's gunbai tanks all of his attacks like clone explosions. Madara is superior in base, so EMS madara would likely be stronger than ems itachi.

@Hiddensound
I admit, Itachi's genjutsu is better, but that's not relevant to this matchup.

How is Itachi's genjutsu superior? By the simple virtue of spamming it?

Used genjutsu on...

Orochimaru, whom resisted it and was about to break it.
Kid Deidara, whom didn't know anything about the Sharingan and it's genjutsu either.
Kurenai, whom broke it.
Naruto, whom resisted it despite having poor chakra control at the time and never combating it before.
Bee, but Gyuuki broke it.

So Itachi has a higher volume of genjutsu usages, but his usages have also been mediocre.

You could make an argument for the two usages of Tsukiyomi, a super genjutsu provided by his MS and is beyond his skill to use it without MS.

Kakashi, whom surprised Itachi and Kisame by resisting it.
Sasuke, whom broke it.

So even Tsukiyomi has a mediocre record.

 

[Antichrist]

who is itachi , dose anyone know him .

 

[Conspirator.]

Yes.

Madara has tons of powerful jutsus. He doesn't need to rely on the Sharingan's power unlike Itachi.



Hahaha!!!



How is Itachi's genjutsu superior? By the simple virtue of spamming it?

Used genjutsu on...

Orochimaru, whom resisted it and was about to break it.
Kid Deidara, whom didn't know anything about the Sharingan and it's genjutsu either.
Kurenai, whom broke it.
Naruto, whom resisted it despite having poor chakra control at the time and never combating it before.
Bee, but Gyuuki broke it.

So Itachi has a higher volume of genjutsu usages, but his usages have also been mediocre.

You could make an argument for the two usages of Tsukiyomi, a super genjutsu provided by his MS and is beyond his skill to use it without MS.

Kakashi, whom surprised Itachi and Kisame by resisting it.
Sasuke, whom broke it.

So even Tsukiyomi has a mediocre record.

Well Itachi is the only known Uchiha to use genjutsu without the sharingan, and his Tsukuyomi is OP. So perhaps he's more versaite in gnejutsu than madara? But madara controlled the kyuubi, so he's obviously a powerful user.

 

[Velencia]

even though itachi is my fav, i doubt it. madara on top

 

[Kamui Sama]

I thought it was pretty clear that using 3 tomoe genjutsu against another 3 tomoe user is pointless. Itachi is no different