[VS] Tobirama(Alive) vs. Minato(Alive)

[Penguin]

Not only. Even in a 1vs1, with the advantage of kunais seals, he can easily outmanoeuver Tobirama anytime. Besides, he possess a level3 hyped to be faster than even Jubito can defend himself against

Tobirama can put the Fuuin mark on his seal in an instant. He only needs a couple, and he is bound to carry more than three kunai or shuriken. Unless you are one to believe he doesn't carry basic ninja tools.

Depends on the distance

I don't see where you get this idea that since Minato's shunshin is better, it must be exponentially better. It isn't. No blitzing from shunshin will happen if Minato is fighting someone EMS Madara levels of speed+.

I'm talking about their respective war accomplishments, but if you really want to think overall, edo tensei did more bad than good(even Orochimaru said that). Madara would have never caused this chaos for example if not edo tensei. On the other side, this war would have been lost a lot earlier if not Minato's plan on Naruto. Onymoudon weakness was discovered by Naruto as well, so it had no real purpose. Minato on the other hand stopped Madara's revival the first time, saved entire shinobi world 2 times, discovered another onmyoudon's weakness, weakened Jubidara by taking most of his balls

Edo tensei was bad because Orochimaru and Kabuto. You understand what genius it took to make a jutsu that negated death and granted immortality? Tobirama's accomplishments is what we are talking about, not Orochimaru or Kabuto's use of the jutsu. Naruto has shown flashes of brilliance before when he is serious, so I don't get what you are saying here. I understand Minato saved the shinobi world twice, but again, he had the help of the edo hokage the second time, and the first time it resulted in his death. Tobirama saved and mentored Hiruzen, who became the best Hokage the Leaf has come to know. He created the village infrastructure as well, so we have one hokage who created and one who saved. I believe Tobirama saved Minato from Juubito's mini TBB as well, so.

To me it seemed more like he couldn't get away, but took advantage of the close range contact to put his tags at the same time. If he could get away, he would have. I'm pretty sure he has markings outside as well like in Konoha. Only that they weren't seen

Not to mention that was the first time Juubito ever used shunshin. No one knew his speed, so naturally they were caught off guard. FTG for Tobirama might have a distance limit, and why would he teleport back to the Leaf when he knew he could regenerate in a couple minutes. A run from the leaf to the war would have taken a long ass time.

But he reacted to a stronger version of Jubito 2 times. Jubito was the one on the offensive. Minato tried to attack until he got surprised by Jubito's sudden transformation mid offense. Said Jubito then attacked Minato in a close range battle and Minato was forced to defend himself with his kunai that cracked during the impact with Jubito removing his arm with the second. It's what happened

Tobirama reacted to him as well.

You must be registered for see links

->

You must be registered for see links

.

Not only that(see above)

Hm.

We don't know that

Oh yes we do. Unless you have the audacity to think Minato can hold a candle to SM Madara.

proof? I never saw a mark on his sword. still leaving minato with the advantage. For every extra kunai he gains via clones minato gains at bare minimun 31.

You know what Hiraishingiri is right? As for the chakra thing [

You must be registered for see links

] -> [

You must be registered for see links

]. Look at Minato's expression. He is surprised and impressed at the chakra levels of the two Senju. It should be clear SM Hashirama >>> Hashirama >> SM Minato >= Tobirama > Base Minato in chakra reserves. And Minato doesn't use SM unless he fights Juubi Jins so...

tobirama vs minato is basically bogard vs penguin and my money's on bogard all they way

minato wins better ftg overall faster and larger arsenal

*Penguin vs Bogard

But no thanks. Bogard is leaps and bounds better than me at debating. And I believe Kaaant is a better match up for him.

 

[RedBuLL]

All valid reasons I guess :|

I have not seen anything of the sort, and I would be the first to comment against these people.



There's absolutely nothing to suggest he'd have only one marked weapon, quite the opposite considering he was rolling around with marked swords since he killed Izuna. His "one Kunai" is obviously multiplied the more clones he makes, as does Minato's.
His Suiton is chakra, if he used it in the immediate area he has complete control over where he teleports too, it's in fact more versitile than Kunai.

I disagree again, Hirashin Giri can factor, it only narrowly missed Madara even when he had Sage Mode. But as it stands it's true speed is largely speculation.

The main reason I believe that this fight is so inconclusive is the fact that Kage Bushin have shown the ability to summon the original to the position they're at, meaning Minato and Tobirama will never be snuck up on.

I ultimately give it to Tobirama. Why? His FTG is in fact the more versitile of the two, and his stamina is higher as it stands.

Oh just cuz Tobirama killed Izuna who was not in Fight-Modus makes him superior skill to anyone in any way ? lol your arguments are more ivalid as mines.
Cuz Tobirama and Minato fought both against Madara, Minato fought even against a Juubi-Jinju.
Conclusion: SM Madara > Tobirama Juubi Jin Madara could just cutt just one arm from Minato. So i can make a comparison cuz the fought against the ''same enemy'' but Minato never fought against Izuna ....Mr.Einstein

Dude even Tobirama said Minato's FTG is better, waht do you wanna tell me ? With your ivalid fanfics... pls i can not believe what i am reading here...

 

[FemmeFatale]

Tobirama wins.
Minato's will die if he uses Kurama chakra.
He wont be able to move

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

proof? I never saw a mark on his sword. still leaving minato with the advantage. For every extra kunai he gains via clones minato gains at bare minimun 31.

Where else would the mark be?

Irrelivent really, Tobirama and Minato can tag as much as they want as the fight goes on.

you talk about us having bad reasons but then you bring unproven hypotheses like this to the table as if it's worth something. Smh.

I'll indulge you regardless. First his chakra is only in the water when he controls it for jutsu once the jutsu ends his range would go back down. Second it would only be helpful if his suiton could hit minato, but seeing as how minato's body flicker his superior to his by his own admittance I don't see any of tobirama's water techs touching minato. Not when his foot speed runs laps on them. No need for ftg.

Unproven? Minato stated the facts. [

You must be registered for see links

]

The latter part of the quote is false, the Suiton is created from chakra, show me a scan that states that it only exists as chakra when he controls it.

Barely? Madara had his back turned and still slapped his kunai out of his hand. Not to mention he used it in the same way minato employs ftgv2. Taking advantage of his opponents "victory" to get the upper hand.

Then why the need to dodge in an obscure manner? He only became aware of his presence at the last moment, when Tobirama was on the verge of striking. Like I said, the speed is relatively featless. If Madara's sage sensing is on par with Kabuto's (two different variations of sage mode.) then it's a speed feat.

while that's true making clones still leaves minato in a better position than tobirama as already explained above, not to mention minato's ability to specifically choose exactly what he wants to teleport.

No, it really doesn't. As I said, Suiton has a far reaching range in comparison to Kunai. Ultimately it's irrelivent, a Kage Bushin on either side could observe and teleport the original if they're in danger, meaning it comes down to reserves.

And Tobirama doesn't have this ability? Since when?

already disprovened minato's a perfect sage. While tobirama May have lineage to fall back on(which is disputable) minato for a fact has massive reserves.

Not as far as I'm concerned. I've no reason to believe Minato has reserves to fight for a full day and I've no reason to believe his two-second sage mode means he has massive reserves, hence why it was never used against Obito (who he thought was Madara.) or the Kyuubi.

 

[RedBuLL]

lol dont give Minato's FTG Skills to Tobirama , thats not going to work buddy.
Minato can jumpf to Chakra and everything with his chakra, not Tobirama.
And Minato > Tobirama in Chakra

you are a scan fan OK...show me a scan where Tobirama can jump to chakra :hooray::snick:

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Minato added Kushina's seals to FTG. That's all he brought to the table, as impressive as that is.

 

[RedBuLL]

Minato added Kushina's seals to FTG. That's all he brought to the table, as impressive as that is.

and ? were is this a problem lol ?

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Therefore you are wrong.

 

[RedBuLL]

Dude can you explain what the hell you are meaning ? U_U i dont understand you.....

 

[blazekev90]

Oh lord! The" Tobimara has multiple marked kunia" argument again? Lol smh

OT: Minato wins mid difficulty at best.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

God forbid a Shinobi would use Shinobi tools.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Where else would the mark be?

Irrelivent really, Tobirama and Minato can tag as much as they want as the fight goes on.

ultimately leaving minato with more tags than tobirama and more time to do other things than tagging kunai.

Unproven? Minato stated the facts. [

You must be registered for see links

]

The latter part of the quote is false, the Suiton is created from chakra, show me a scan that states that it only exists as chakra when he controls it.

I never said it only exists as chakra I said it only contains his chakra during the duration of the jutsu. Meaning the water will still be there but his chakra won't. Yes it's unproven tobirama has never shown the ability to use his water techs like that

Then why the need to dodge in an obscure manner? He only became aware of his presence at the last moment,

he leaned to the right. Nothing obscure about that. Matter of fact it's closer to him giving 0 fcks. He was aware of tobirama's presence the moment tobirama appeared.

when Tobirama was on the verge of striking. Like I said, the speed is relatively featless. If Madara's sage sensing is on par with Kabuto's (two different variations of sage mode.) then it's a speed feat.

it's a speed feat for madara. Not tobirama. Tobirama got danced on. Trying to make something out of this would be equivalent to me trying to make something out of minato's scuffle with juubidara which you already said was foolish. Don't be bias.

No, it really doesn't. As I said, Suiton has a far reaching range in comparison to Kunai.

Ultimately not only is it slower than kunai it's usefulness disappears the moment the jutsu ends.

Ultimately it's irrelivent, a Kage Bushin on either side could observe and teleport the original if they're in danger, meaning it comes down to reserves.

false. With more places to jump to minato and/or his clones can isolate tobirama/his clones. Tobirama's clones teleporting to each other just piles them up in one location.limiting their escape options.

And Tobirama doesn't have this ability? Since when?

has he shown it? For all you know that's an improvement made by minato.

Not as far as I'm concerned. I've no reason to believe Minato has reserves to fight for a full day and I've no reason to believe his two-second sage mode means he has massive reserves, hence why it was never used against Obito (who he thought was Madara.) or the Kyuubi.

So you're gonna deny what the toads, and kabuto said about sm? Despite oro being living proof that without the reserves sm in it of itself is unattainable? All the body modifications kabuto had to through just to gain an imperfect version?

I'm beginning to question whether I should continue with this.

 

[blazekev90]

God forbid one ask for proof when making a claim.

@Kaant, Tobimara fighting style differs from Minato, we clearly witnessed that in previous chapters. Tobimara is old fashion, Minato youngin who upgraded an already OP technique. Even during his fight against Tobi, we got a hint of how/why Minato's use of ftg differed from Tobimara. Even if you were to argue otherwise Minato wins.

Gdnight.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

God forbid a Shinobi would use Shinobi tools.

Tobirama is busy taking the time out to mark ninja tools while minato is busy taking the time out to kill his ass.

 

[Gold Lightning]

So many claims, yet no proof U_U

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

ultimately leaving minato with more tags than tobirama and more time to do other things than tagging kunai.

Tobirama's Suiton would give him a greater range than tags ever would.

I never said it only exists as chakra I said it only contains his chakra. Meaning the water will still be there but his chakra won't. Yes it's unproven tobirama has never shown the ability to use his water techs like that

If it contains his chakra he can teleport to it.

he leaned to the right. Nothing obscure about that. Matter of fact it's closer to him giving 0 fcks. He was aware of tobirama's presence the moment tobirama appeared.

If he gave '0 fcks' then he could've by all means used the technique he used on Tobirama when he later teleported in the air. No, he was aware of Tobirama when Tobirama was right behind him.
[/QUOTE]

it's a speed feat for madara. Not tobirama. Tobirama got danced on. Trying to make something out of this would be equivalent to me trying to make something out of minato's scuffle with juubidara which you already said was foolish. Don't be bias.

It would actually be reactions for Madara, and speed for the technique, if he were to get that close undetected.

Ultimately not only is it slower than kunai it's usefulness disappears the moment the jutsu ends.

I'm still waiting on that scan.

alse. With more places to jump to minato and/or his clones can isolate tobirama/his clones. Tobirama's clones teleporting to each other just piles them up in one location.limiting their escape options.

And that's why I stated his clones and himself can mark anywhere as they go, or use Suiton on the field. Minato would be doing nothing of the sort, considering the amount of clones both would make would probably be just as much as the other until one finds a limit.

has he shown it? For all you know that's an improvement made by minato.

No explicit difference has been made between Minato and Tobirama's FTG, aside from Kushina's seals.

So you're gonna deny what the toads, and kabuto said about sm? Despite oro being living proof that without the reserves sm in it of itself is unattainable? All the body modifications kabuto had to through just to gain an imperfect version?

I'm beginning to question whether I should continue with this.

Oro's body wasn't compatible with Sage mode, that's why he couldn't use it. He's already proven he has massive reserves.
By Kabuto's own opinion his Sage Mode is above and beyond perfect.

Well I think I'm done for today.

Tobirama is busy taking the time out to mark ninja tools while minato is busy taking the time out to kill his ass.

Because it's only appropriate for Tobirama to get to the battlefield before he starts marking his stuff. When he picks up his gear to put it in his ninja pack there's no time for that.

God forbid one ask for proof when making a claim.

You're asking me to prove that a Shinobi will use Shinobi tools. Not only that, but that the top dog in the system can't use more than one when kids just barely into the game were casually summoning and using numerous tools - who were born out of a system and structure he designed?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Tobirama's Suiton would give him a greater range than tags ever would.

And that range disappears the moment the jutsu ends. Leaving him with his impromptu kunai.

If it contains his chakra he can teleport to it.

At the end of the jutsu it no longer contains his chakra.

If he gave '0 fcks' then he could've by all means used the technique he used on Tobirama when he later teleported in the air. No, he was aware of Tobirama when Tobirama was right behind him.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobirama appears behind him and he's instantly aware in the first panel.
Tobirama lunges and he dodges casually in the second panel.
Madara slaps the kunai out of her hand in the third panel while pulling out a black rod in the forth.
0 fcks

It would actually be reactions for Madara, and speed for the technique, if he were to get that close undetected.

No. its speed since maddy dodged and countered before tobirama regained control of the situation. Only to get off paneled.

I'm still waiting on that scan.

What scans? Do you believe constructs made by chakra retain the chakra after the end of the jutsu? So the buildings tenzo made during his mission with team 7 or the buildings he made during konoha reconstruction still have his chakra?

And that's why I stated his clones and himself can mark anywhere as they go, or use Suiton on the field.

So Tobirama's clone is doing triple duty by using suiton(despite suiton being useless) marking kunai(distracting him from minato) and fighting minato's clones. While Minato's clones only have the purpose of destroying the clones and killing tobirama.

Minato would be doing nothing of the sort,

why not? your're the one that said tobirama will warp clones back to him when there in danger.

considering the amount of clones both would make would probably be just as much as the other

speculation

until one finds a limit.

cant believe your trying to use the attrition argument. Feat wise minato's reserves are superior. All you have backing you is lineage

No explicit difference has been made between Minato and Tobirama's FTG, aside from Kushina's seals.

Proof? cuz ftg barrier begs to differ.

Oro's body wasn't compatible with Sage mode, that's why he couldn't use it. He's already proven he has massive reserves.

no he hasn't. Even by databook his reserves is low. he couldn't even attain imperfect sm

By Kabuto's own opinion his Sage Mode is above and beyond perfect.

Your correct.

Because it's only appropriate for Tobirama to get to the battlefield before he starts marking his stuff. When he picks up his gear to put it in his ninja pack there's no time for that.

i could care less. That only means hes coming to the battlefeild ill prepared.

Edit: actually by kabuto's own admittance he couldn't become a true sage. Sasuke then makes fun of him for it

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Hence the body modifications to increase his chakra pool.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

^im not replying to that, or whatever it's supposed to be. I'm going to sit out future debates until this topic progresses more, hopefully next week going by the recent chapter.

I'll gladly debate you again whenever that happens.

I'm not conceding, or claiming victory; I've said all I wanted to say and that was that both characters are so similar, too similar in fact that it basically becomes a game of attrition. If by some miracle Minato shows he has higher reserves than T-Rama then I'll concede the whole fight just based on that. Otherwise the amount of ways the fight can go down is essentially endless.

 

[RedBuLL]

Kaant ,, No explicit difference has been made between Minato and Tobirama's FTG, aside from Kushina's seals. ''

oooh my gosh ...U_U hahaha he dont read Naruto Manga he has a other Manga 100%....
________________________
Minato can also use Edo Tensei, it was never said explicit that he can not use it.

He mastered Shadow Clones....Tobirama Jutsu.
He mastered FTG........Tobirama Jutsu
And why he should not use Edo Tensei ?
Oro/Kabuto could also use Edo Tensei and i am sure Minato is more talented Zzz

PS:even when i am joking i have more proof then you :dunno:

 

[Leathercandle]

Minato. He has better reflexes, uses FTG in better ways, can use the kyuubi chakra (the eyes thing), and he is all around a better ninja.

Minato wins mid-high difficulty