Another View of Chapter 677

NaruSasuRival

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As the title says, this is a different view of chapter 677. This view does not seek to take a character's word for Kishi's or for that of a god. In particular, I am going to clear a misconception of Sasuke's actions in chapter 677.

1. Common or Fanboyist Belief: Sasuke saved Naruto from IT.

This is what many fanboys or fangirls think. As it has become customary, any single action from Sasuke tend to be blown by his fandom without further interpretation. The reason why they think Naruto will be affected by IT is in the following panel.

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Here, Sasuke asserts that without his Susanoo Shelter, Naruto will be put under genjutsu. Of course, given that Sasuke went to Konoha with Tobi after obtaining MS or EMS, and also with Orochimaru, Sasuke know about the IT. Thus, he would be inclined to believe that any regular person will be caught into the eternal Genjutsu. The question is: Is Naruto a regular person, or a regular Shinobi?

2. Sasuke's action are his own belief, not Naruto's.

First, let go back a page:

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As you can see, Naruto was able to sense Hinata's call. Naruto also resolved to go to help Hinata, and I actually think he can sense the Shinju wrapping everyone lives in his see of trees. Now, in the above panel, Sasuke grabbed Naruto to stop him. Obviously, unless naruto has no respect for Sasuke, or is in fight with him, the right action is to stop and listen.

Then:

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Here, in the first panel, Sasuke gives a detail of how he is protecting Naruto from the genjutsu. However, look carefully at Naruto in the first (rightmost top) panel. Naruto posture there is completely different from when he is accepting something. To make it better, look at the second top panel (leftmost).

There, you can see that Kishi chose carefully to give Naruto's back to the reader, then Sasuke continue to explain why Naruto should stay. This also confirm the fact that Naruto is still not willing to stay under the shelter. In addition, read carefully the statement in that panel. After Sasuke's explanation, there is a "what ...!" Then, look at Sasuke and Sakura's posture and facial expressions (basically their body language).

My opinion, is that since Naruto did not talk in these two panels, something happened, and Kishi chose to hide it. This will happen in next chapter, and it will show that actually, Naruto can move freely outside, and is immune to the IT.

3. Sheltering is not a solution

Another evidence that Naruto is immune to IT is that Sheltering is not a solution. Basically, Sasuke will have to Shelter Kakashi and Sakura, but as long as IT is casted, anyone who is not immune will be caught into it. Therefore, Sasuke's soluton is not a good one. There will be no chance, because Madara is not going to cancel it. As the name said, it is an eternal genjutsu.

4. Sasuke is still acting out of fear and misunderstanding of Naruto's power!

Actually, I would say that he is acting out of fear, and underestimating Naruto's power as always. This actually remind me of the fights against Haku and Gaara. Sasuke always assume that he has the solution of the problem, but at the end of the day, the truth is that Naruto had more under his sleeves than they knew of.

Next, Sasuke is not only sheltering from IT, but also from the Limbo shadows of Madara. This is my second time to mention it. For some non-existing reason, Sasuke is freaking scared of Madara's shadows, and he has been concerned about them for more than two cahpters now.

5. Not cool, but get the job done!

Another thing I noted in chapter 677 is that Naruto is the one who has powers that get the job done. After spending one chapter in cutting the chubaku tensei boulder, Sasuke did not change anything. This make sense because his cut cannot destroy the black cores of the boulders. Thus even if they are cut, they will go back. In previous chapter 676, Sasuke failed to notice that, and rather complained about how they keep coming.

Well, give it to the Rasen-Churiken, and the job is done.
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flyboyissac

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i love the first part im still reading

and just because sasuke said he would get affect didnt mean naruto said it

thats like saying if if me and someone else jump off a bridge he says i would die but he wouldnt die

how would he know if ill die

EDIT yes in the last chapter he repeated himself twice about madara limbo's its not a echo around naruto heard mostly likely the first time. he cant do nothing to limbo's for some reason maybe he dont have senjustu
 
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ahmher

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i love the first part im still reading

and just because sasuke said he would get affect didnt mean naruto said it

thats like saying if if me and someone else jump off a bridge he says i would die but he wouldnt die

how would he know if ill die
exactly i agree with you
 

ahmher

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As the title says, this is a different view of chapter 677. This view does not seek to take a character's word for Kishi's or for that of a god. In particular, I am going to clear a misconception of Sasuke's actions in chapter 677.

1. Common or Fanboyist Belief: Sasuke saved Naruto from IT.

This is what many fanboys or fangirls think. As it has become customary, any single action from Sasuke tend to be blown by his fandom without further interpretation. The reason why they think Naruto will be affected by IT is in the following panel.

You must be registered for see images

Here, Sasuke asserts that without his Susanoo Shelter, Naruto will be put under genjutsu. Of course, given that Sasuke went to Konoha with Tobi after obtaining MS or EMS, and also with Orochimaru, Sasuke know about the IT. Thus, he would be inclined to believe that any regular person will be caught into the eternal Genjutsu. The question is: Is Naruto a regular person, or a regular Shinobi?

2. Sasuke's action are his own belief, not Naruto's.

First, let go back a page:

You must be registered for see images

As you can see, Naruto was able to sense Hinata's call. Naruto also resolved to go to help Hinata, and I actually think he can sense the Shinju wrapping everyone lives in his see of trees. Now, in the above panel, Sasuke grabbed Naruto to stop him. Obviously, unless naruto has no respect for Sasuke, or is in fight with him, the right action is to stop and listen.

Then:

You must be registered for see images

Here, in the first panel, Sasuke gives a detail of how he is protecting Naruto from the genjutsu. However, look carefully at Naruto in the first (rightmost top) panel. Naruto posture there is completely different from when he is accepting something. To make it better, look at the second top panel (leftmost).

There, you can see that Kishi chose carefully to give Naruto's back to the reader, then Sasuke continue to explain why Naruto should stay. This also confirm the fact that Naruto is still not willing to stay under the shelter. In addition, read carefully the statement in that panel. After Sasuke's explanation, there is a "what ...!" Then, look at Sasuke and Sakura's posture and facial expressions (basically their body language).

My opinion, is that since Naruto did not talk in these two panels, something happened, and Kishi chose to hide it. This will happen in next chapter, and it will show that actually, Naruto can move freely outside, and is immune to the IT.

3. Sheltering is not a solution

Another evidence that Naruto is immune to IT is that Sheltering is not a solution. Basically, Sasuke will have to Shelter Kakashi and Sakura, but as long as IT is casted, anyone who is not immune will be caught into it. Therefore, Sasuke's soluton is not a good one. There will be no chance, because Madara is not going to cancel it. As the name said, it is an eternal genjutsu.

4. Sasuke is still acting out of fear and misunderstanding of Naruto's power!

Actually, I would say that he is acting out of fear, and underestimating Naruto's power as always. This actually remind me of the fights against Haku and Gaara. Sasuke always assume that he has the solution of the problem, but at the end of the day, the truth is that Naruto had more under his sleeves than they knew of.

Next, Sasuke is not only sheltering from IT, but also from the Limbo shadows of Madara. This is my second time to mention it. For some non-existing reason, Sasuke is freaking scared of Madara's shadows, and he has been concerned about them for more than two cahpters now.

5. Not cool, but get the job done!

Another thing I noted in chapter 677 is that Naruto is the one who has powers that get the job done. After spending one chapter in cutting the chubaku tensei boulder, Sasuke did not change anything. This make sense because his cut cannot destroy the black cores of the boulders. Thus even if they are cut, they will go back. In previous chapter 676, Sasuke failed to notice that, and rather complained about how they keep coming.

Well, give it to the Rasen-Churiken, and the job is done.
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great explaining and also it was fairly and i agree with you 100% +rep:win:
 

Genjin

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Now It's Sasuke fapboys turn to try to disapprove this.
 

Byakugan12x

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Clearly a lot of speculation, and a lot of what ifs and reading into stuff that may or may not need reading into. I think your fanboyism is clouding your judgement. Isn't it also a possibility that what sasuke said is right? I'm not denying what you said could be true i'm just suggesting that when it comes to battle strategy sasuke is normally right. Naruto thinks with his heart not with his head.

Also to your point with sasuke underestimating naruto's power, what could have also been seen is that naruto has an over-estimation of his power and the hesitancy of sasuke is right in this case. Even kishi via Black zetsu was eluding to why team 7 was not caught in the IT and whether its liked or not was down to sasuke.

I could be wrong but hey its just a thought.
 

SPIRTofleo

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Sasuke saved them, just give it a rest, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of everything
 

NaruSasuRival

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Now It's Sasuke fapboys turn to try to disapprove this.

Of course, anyone can disagree with what I said, but can they disagree objectively?
On the other hand, I think most people forget who Naruto actually is. Has he really displayed the power of Ashura that caused both Ashura and Indra to die in battle? As he really used even the power of the Bijus? What about the whole Natural energy that he can absorb at any time?

In my understanding, Naruto and Sasuke will not fight Madara while the people are sleeping. I am pretty sure Naruto can wake the people up by connecting to them.

Clearly a lot of speculation, and a lot of what ifs and reading into stuff that may or may not need reading into. I think your fanboyism is clouding your judgement. Isn't it also a possibility that what sasuke said is right? I'm not denying what you said could be true i'm just suggesting that when it comes to battle strategy sasuke is normally right. Naruto thinks with his heart not with his head.

Also to your point with sasuke underestimating naruto's power, what could have also been seen is that naruto has an over-estimation of his power and the hesitancy of sasuke is right in this case. Even kishi via Black zetsu was eluding to why team 7 was not caught in the IT and whether its liked or not was down to sasuke.

I could be wrong but hey its just a thought.

Sasuke saved them, just give it a rest, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of everything

Do you know why Sasuke almost died against Haku?

Well, he thought that Haku's needles would have killed Naruto if he was hit. In the end, it appeared that Haku could even place a thousand of those needle in Naruto without any effect.

Do you know why Sasuke wanted to go against Gaara after being put on the brink to death?

Well, he thought he knew Naruto. Then, when Naruto released his chakra, Sasuke started to get jealous. I am pretty sure you remember the cycle. This has not changed. As I said before, Naruto is cool-headed when playing in a team. He usually does not take the lead, but when shit is going down, he is the one who take the main job.

Actually, your posts are funny because you ignore how much effort Sasuke is making to convince Naruto. His statement were far from being absolute, and I see the talk as some kind of negotiation. Clearly, Sasuke is hiding because he is affraid.
 
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Byakugan12x

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Of course, anyone can disagree with what I said, but can they disagree objectively?
On the other hand, I think most people forget who Naruto actually is. Has he really displayed the power of Ashura that caused both Ashura and Indra to die in battle? As he really used even the power of the Bijus? What about the whole Natural energy that he can absorb at any time?

In my understanding, Naruto and Sasuke will not fight Madara while the people are sleeping. I am pretty sure Naruto can wake the people up by connecting to them.





Do you know why Sasuke almost died against Haku?

Well, he thought that Haku's needles would have killed Naruto if he was hit. In the end, it appeared that Haku could even place a thousand of those needle in Naruto without any effect.

Do you know why Sasuke wanted to go against Gaara after being put on the brink to death?

Well, he thought he knew Naruto. Then, when Naruto released his chakra, Sasuke started to get jealous. I am pretty sure you remember the cycle. This has not changed. As I said before, Naruto is cool-headed when playing in a team. He usually does not take the lead, but when shit is going down, he is the one who take the main job.

Actually, your posts are funny because you ignore how much effort Sasuke is making to convince Naruto. His statement were far from being absolute, and I see the talk as some kind of negotiation. Clearly, Sasuke is hiding because he is affraid.

So your response to my comments was something which occurred in part one when they were both young.... not that 3 years training with a sannin and fighting danzo, itachi, orochimaru, deidara et al. hasn't helped at all.

I think your arguments as to why naruto is right, comes from a belief which occurred when sasuke had no knowledge that naruto was a jinchuuriki of the nine tails or anything like that which occured in part one your argument about sasukes belief back then now goes out the window.

If you want i could start a war to show you naruto stupidity in this war and especially when he over estimates his power e.g.

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and
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However I don't want to, and before this comment is branded as being a sasuke fanboy reply, Neji is my favourite!
I just like to cool down fanboys ideas when clearly they are being stretched too far. Its not a bad thing that sasuke saved naruto and co. just deal with it
 
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SPIRTofleo

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Of course, anyone can disagree with what I said, but can they disagree objectively?
On the other hand, I think most people forget who Naruto actually is. Has he really displayed the power of Ashura that caused both Ashura and Indra to die in battle? As he really used even the power of the Bijus? What about the whole Natural energy that he can absorb at any time?

In my understanding, Naruto and Sasuke will not fight Madara while the people are sleeping. I am pretty sure Naruto can wake the people up by connecting to them.





Do you know why Sasuke almost died against Haku?

Well, he thought that Haku's needles would have killed Naruto if he was hit. In the end, it appeared that Haku could even place a thousand of those needle in Naruto without any effect.

Do you know why Sasuke wanted to go against Gaara after being put on the brink to death?

Well, he thought he knew Naruto. Then, when Naruto released his chakra, Sasuke started to get jealous. I am pretty sure you remember the cycle. This has not changed. As I said before, Naruto is cool-headed when playing in a team. He usually does not take the lead, but when shit is going down, he is the one who take the main job.

Actually, your posts are funny because you ignore how much effort Sasuke is making to convince Naruto. His statement were far from being absolute, and I see the talk as some kind of negotiation. Clearly, Sasuke is hiding because he is affraid.
Your just a Naruto fanboy, that can't accept the fact that Sasuke can do something that Naruto can't, like i said, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of every chapter, sometimes other characters need shine as-well, Naruto was the star of mostly the whole entire war, so why are you so butthurt that sasuke got a chance to be the team player for once?
 
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King Of Pop

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So your response to my comments was something which occurred in part one when they were both young.... not that 3 years training with a sannin and fighting danzo, itachi, orochimaru, deidara et al. hasn't helped at all.

I think your arguments as to why naruto is right, comes from a belief which occurred when sasuke had no knowledge that naruto was a jinchuuriki of the nine tails or anything like that which occured in part one your argument about sasukes belief back then now goes out the window.

If you want i could start a war to show you naruto stupidity in this war and especially when he over estimates his power e.g.

You must be registered for see images
and
You must be registered for see images

However I don't want to, and before this comment is branded as being a sasuke fanboy reply, Neji is my favourite!
I just like to cool down fanboys ideas when clearly they are being stretched too far. Its not a bad thing that sasuke saved naruto and co. just deal with it

completely shitting on the thread, nice job

OT. this thread is stupid. it is based on nothing but speculation, fanfic is very strong. somhow u mad that sasuke was the one to save naruto so your trying so hard to prove his statements about naruto being prone to the genjutsu as wrong. you fap naruto too much, go write your own manga if you are so desperate. until proven otherwise naruto cannot counter it, simple, any other thing is pure speculation. stay mad
 

King Of Pop

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Your just a Naruto fanboy, that can't accept the fact that Sasuke can do something that Naruto can't, like i said, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of every chapter, sometimes other characters need shine as-well, Naruto was the star of mostly the whole entire war, so why are you so butthurt that sasuke got a chance to be the team player for once?

its because the op has deluded himself to thinking naruto will defeat madara alone and sasuke is not important in the fight. go check his other threads, very pathetic with so much naruto fap. apparently this chapter shat on his reasonings as sasuke saved naruto, hence he is damage controlling with this threads pathetic
 

Babce

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Your just a Naruto fanboy, that can't accept the fact that Sasuke can do something that Naruto can't, like i said, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of every chapter, sometimes other characters need shine as-well, Naruto was the star of mostly the whole entire war, so why are you so butthurt that sasuke got a chance to be the team player for once?

As not a fanboy of either i can safely say that you are the only fapboy here
 

NaruSasuRival

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So your response to my comments was something which occurred in part one when they were both young.... not that 3 years training with a sannin and fighting danzo, itachi, orochimaru, deidara et al. hasn't helped at all.

I think your arguments as to why naruto is right, comes from a belief which occurred when sasuke had no knowledge that naruto was a jinchuuriki of the nine tails or anything like that which occured in part one your argument about sasukes belief back then now goes out the window.

If you want i could start a war to show you naruto stupidity in this war and especially when he over estimates his power e.g.

You must be registered for see images
and
You must be registered for see images

However I don't want to, and before this comment is branded as being a sasuke fanboy reply, Neji is my favourite!
I just like to cool down fanboys ideas when clearly they are being stretched too far. Its not a bad thing that sasuke saved naruto and co. just deal with it

Unlike you guys who lose your logic due to unreasonable fanboysm, I always examine every possibilities. Besides, when I make a thread, I usually take time to analyze as many view as possible. In my OP, I even noted the fact that Sasuke knows about IT, and that his belief that Naruto will be caught in it is founded.

Now, should I respect your above post? Well, I think you tried, but your bias is huge from miles away. First, I want you to make a difference between comedy in a series, and serious facts. Second, you need to understand that being surprised that a stronger version of something you have beaten before is not stupid. See, when Naruto fought Obito, Obito was convinced that Naruto was caught by his chains, but Naruto undid them, Naruto even grabbed the chains when Obito used them against Killer bee to free him. Naruto was able to free himself from Madara's wooden dragon. Thus, from all these fact, he could launch an attack in BM without worrying about the chakra chain. I call it being surprised by a sudden unknown power up of the enemy. See here for example:

Naruto surprised by the power of Madara's chains
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Madara surprised by a sudden power up of Naruto, and almost died here.

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As you can see, a sudden power up of someone or something you have already defeated has nothing to do with being stupid. Your analysis is not only biased, but it show clearly that you are one of the people who spend their time convincing each other that Naruto is stupid, or weak. Clearly, you need to make yourself blind to believe that. In this manga, there is goofy Naruto and ready to kick Naruto.

Well, I forgot this one.

Do you think Sasuke was stupid here? Was he overconfident of his power? Do you remember that he got kicked by blind Madara before this, and attacked confidently Rinnegan Madara?

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See, after the above chapter was release, I spent a week using logic to prove that Sasuke was really stabbed and was about to die. However, none of you believed. Even today, some of you actually think Sasuke has a Jutsu that can bind Madara in his current state. I think you are the one who is failing to see the order of power in the series. Besides, there is a generally expressed desire from Sasuke's fandom to believe that Naruto is the one who need to be saved by Sasuke, and any idea that goes against it is bashed. I bet you will all be bashing the series next week when Kishi shows Naruto's new moves.


Your just a Naruto fanboy, that can't accept the fact that Sasuke can do something that Naruto can't, like i said, Naruto doesn't always have to be the star of every chapter, sometimes other characters need shine as-well, Naruto was the star of mostly the whole entire war, so why are you so butthurt that sasuke got a chance to be the team player for once?

What are you saying? Why are you guys desperate about comparing Naruto and Sasuke?

See, I don't care about what Sasuke has. Rather, I am using the right way to read and interpret what you read. In chapter 677, Sasuke did not save Naruto. Rather, Sasuke think Naruto needs to be save. Unless Kishi confirms that what Sasuke said is true, my argument is valid. In fact, you are the one who is bent on seeing Sasuke do something that Naruto cannot do when actually, there are many ways to dispel a genjutsu, especially for a skilled and powerful shin obi such as Naruto.

Besides, I am impressed by all of you that think that hiding cowardly under a Susanoo in fear of a genjutsu or Limbo shadow will be something Naruto can do when his friend are dying. See, you failed to understand the manga. While Sasuke can save himself and live alone after the death of everyone, Naruto cannot do that.

For now, we agree to disagree. Your argument against my argument, and we will see next week.
 
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King Of Pop

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Of course, anyone can disagree with what I said, but can they disagree objectively?
On the other hand, I think most people forget who Naruto actually is. Has he really displayed the power of Ashura that caused both Ashura and Indra to die in battle? As he really used even the power of the Bijus? What about the whole Natural energy that he can absorb at any time?

In my understanding, Naruto and Sasuke will not fight Madara while the people are sleeping. I am pretty sure Naruto can wake the people up by connecting to them.





Do you know why Sasuke almost died against Haku?

Well, he thought that Haku's needles would have killed Naruto if he was hit. In the end, it appeared that Haku could even place a thousand of those needle in Naruto without any effect.

Do you know why Sasuke wanted to go against Gaara after being put on the brink to death?

Well, he thought he knew Naruto. Then, when Naruto released his chakra, Sasuke started to get jealous. I am pretty sure you remember the cycle. This has not changed. As I said before, Naruto is cool-headed when playing in a team. He usually does not take the lead, but when shit is going down, he is the one who take the main job.

Actually, your posts are funny because you ignore how much effort Sasuke is making to convince Naruto. His statement were far from being absolute, and I see the talk as some kind of negotiation. Clearly, Sasuke is hiding because he is affraid.

dont be foolish, he can counter the jutsu with his rinnegan perfectly, hes using soosano so he can protect his team as well, hes not afraid. hes smart as he knows only him cant defeat madara, thats not being afraid, thats being smart. be grateful that sasuke did what he did otherwise your precious naruto would have been sleeping in infinite tsukuyomi period. its not a bad thing if sasuke saves him, thats why its teamwork, naruto cant do everything alone.
 

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The OP should go and stab himself for his stupidity-no he should burn himself into ash-so that the world doesn't have to deal with his runis.......
 
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