Danzo and Hiruzen vs Gai and Kakashi

[Brother Numpsay]

It took an entire chapter for danzo to get the gauntlet off. Both his lackeys engaged in a full fight with obito and both lost before he took it off completely.

Taking an entire chapter doesn't mean anything, as manga still uses dialogue for story. It simply called suspense. Kisimoto wants to reveal something mysterious that Danzo is uncovering. Further proof is when he remove the first blot out of three[

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] didnt take long at all.

Guy fall for sharingan genjutsu? Lol.

I didn't read the OP intel when I post that. He can still use dust clouds to distract him.

Both these old farts are getting blitzed.

No. Danzo already was blitz by Chidori and dodged it.

Hiruzen already shown great reaction to intercept Buddha attack, close the gap between Oro [

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>

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] instantly, He also matched the Speed of Hashirama and Tobirama Senju getting to the battle field. I can go on regardless feats shows that arent getting blitz.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I'm not too keen personally on using the Databooks, I generally only use them for featless characters. It's common sense Kakashi is a superior taijutsu fighter though.

You were right he did start with gates against Obito, Madara, and V2 Jins. But let's think about it...

Against Obito: He was going for a Gate snipe, they know Obito is a tough bastard to hit, they were riding on that surprise attack.

Against V2 Jins: They're jinchuurikis, pretty dangerous he was definitely justified in that scenario.

Against Madara: He was already above god level, and likely saw Minato and Kakashi get fodderized within seconds.

Against Kisame: Kisame was getting away and they desperately had to stop him before Tobi found out where the Jins were.

He didn't gate snipe against Itachi/Kisame, Itachi again (remember when he thought Jiraiya was Itachi and went for that dynamic entry lulz), and the 33% Kisame clone (even after his students were trapped and drowning he didn't pull it out). Now let's remember that those were Akatsuki members, who already had an established ethos as S ranked criminals. So Gai knew what he was up against.

But at the same time, he used gates against Madara and the V2 Jins because he knew he had to because of their ethos. So it's a tough call since he didn't pull it out on Akatsuki members yet at the same time he was pulling it out on Jinchuurikis.

Then again, these are 2 old dudes, and i'm positive Gai/Kakashi were aware Hiruzen was past his prime. Gai even notes they have to go help him fight Orochimaru (i'll find scan if need be), Danzo is a tough call because Kakashi was shocked MS Sasuke killed him, but was he shocked because of Sasuke's strength, or the fact that his student had gone so low?

Anyway, it's hard to say if he would've/wouldn't have pulled gates in the first 5 seconds. Could you really see Gai pulling out the gates when one old fart is taking off a cast and the other is summoning Enma? At least when he pulled out the gates at the start, he had the right scenarios.

I think we can agree Hiruzen can't do that much in this fight, and it's more on Danzo.

Even if we don't use databook, by feats kakashi is still superior.

Even if we do take disregard situations in which guy started in gates the mindset is still to kill. Meaning a gates blitz or a raikiri blitz isn't out of the question. Especially in hiruzen's case.
I don't see a reason why either kakashi or guy would hiruzen or danzo to setup. Especially since they know exactly what the two are capable of(especially Danzo) if they do. Usually the only reason either of the two let their opponents set up is when they have no knowledge on their opponents. But once knowledge is acquired in kakashi's own words"your future is death" guy is forgetful though so he might just blitz on the sole"to kill" premise.

If you want to argue how danzo beats the both of them be my guest.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Taking an entire chapter doesn't mean anything, as manga still uses dialogue for story. It simply called suspense. Kisimoto wants to reveal something mysterious that Danzo is uncovering. Further proof is when he remove the first blot out of three[

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] didnt take long at all.



I didn't read the OP intel when I post that. He can still use dust clouds to distract him.




No. Danzo already was blitz by Chidori and dodged it.

Hiruzen already shown great reaction to intercept Buddha attack, close the gap between Oro [

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>

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] instantly, He also matched the Speed of Hashirama and Tobirama Senju getting to the battle field. I can go on regardless feats shows that arent getting blitz.

Yet 7 pages later he's still fumbling with his seal. I don't see it as suspense. Especially since he sent both out with the purpose of buying time.

Kakashi sees through dust clouds via sharingan. If guy opening gates can blast back water it can most definitely blast back dust clouds.

Sasuke wasn't using his sharingan.

Wasn't oro just playing with him? Anyways I hope your not insinuating that his elderly speed is equal to tobirama's and hashirama's. Especially since that would mean the brothers also share the same speed, even though tobirama is considered the fastest.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Yet 7 pages later he's still fumbling with his seal.

You just define the situation right here.

Especially since he sent both out with the purpose of buying time.

Because he doesn't want to fight until he is ready, nothing is stopping him from moving around to do it, the Gauntlet is very mobile, and can still be used for combat[

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]. So once again Kishimoto is building suspense for his audience

Kakashi sees through dust clouds via sharingan. If guy opening gates can blast back water it can most definitely blast back dust clouds.

I was talking about Guy blitz situation specifically.

Sasuke wasn't using his sharingan.

So? Danzo is weaken, low on chakra, and on his death bed. The results would of been the same with both of them healthy.

Wasn't oro just playing with him? Anyways I hope your not insinuating that his elderly speed is equal to tobirama's and hashirama's. Especially since that would mean the brothers also share the same speed, even though tobirama is considered the fastest.

1. That scan was the ending results of RDS, so no he had full intent to kill him after Kages were sealed[

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]
2. I dont need to insinuate the manga scan speaks for itself, he also ALMOST dodged a Blitz attack from Juubito, which Naruto and Sasuke couldn't do at all.

I am not trying to apply who is faster here but to show that by feats Hiruzen or Danzo aren't slow nor getting blitz.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

You just define the situation right here.



Because he doesn't want to fight until he is ready, nothing is stopping him from moving around to do it, the Gauntlet is very mobile, and can still be used for combat[

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]. So once again Kishimoto is building suspense for his audience

1. That's not the gauntlet that's his hands.
2. He hasn't shown the ability to weave seals with one hand, so unless he has 3 hands he's not gonna be able to take the gauntlet off while weaving seals for jutsu. There's no reason for him not to attempt to finish off obito with his subordinates if it was in his ability. Especially considering the type of man he is and his knowledge on the situation. 3vs1? Sasuke nowhere to be seen? The world's greatest threat in front of him? Ending obito right there(which was his plan even after sasuke showed up) would have made him a hero and have given him complete control over the leaf. Practically being a shoo-in for the hokage spot.

I was talking about Guy blitz situation specifically.

and I gave you guy's response to it. Even worse he has to stop undoing the gauntlet to weave seals for the dust cloud.

So? Danzo is weaken, low on chakra, and on his death bed. The results would of been the same with both of them healthy.

Speculation. Danzo had a shisui's sharingan out while sasuke didn't even have his sharingan out. Danzo not only benefited from sharingan's move prediction but sasuke's inability to see counters and tunnel vision.

1. That scan was the ending results of RDS, so no he had full intent to kill him after Kages were sealed[

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]

I'll have to reread that fight. But by feats, part 2 power scaling, and data book kakashi's speed advantage is massive.

2. I dont need to insinuate the manga scan speaks for itself, he also ALMOST dodged a Blitz attack from Juubito, which Naruto and Sasuke couldn't do at all.

almost is worth nothing. Obito was mindless, and his approach to hiruzen was straight straightforward. Yet hiruzen still got hit with that v8. He needs his vegetable juice.

I am not trying to apply who is faster here but to show that by feats Hiruzen or Danzo aren't slow nor getting blitz.

You kinda are if you're going to use that example for hiruzen.
A) he's an edo
B) in that situation he would have to have equal speed with someone who was hailed as fastest.
C)hashirama would also have to have equal speed with someone hailed as fastest.

That's just a bad example.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. That's not the gauntlet that's his hands.
2. He hasn't shown the ability to weave seals with one hand, so unless he has 3 hands he's not gonna be able to take the gauntlet off while weaving seals for jutsu. There's no reason for him not to attempt to finish off obito with his subordinates if it was in his ability. Especially considering the type of man he is and his knowledge on the situation. 3vs1? Sasuke nowhere to be seen? The world's greatest threat in front of him? Ending obito right there(which was his plan even after sasuke showed up) would have made him a hero and have given him complete control over the leaf. Practically being a shoo-in for the hokage spot.

1.The Gauntlet is bolted to his hands..
2. He isn't doing one hand, if its a Gate Blitz then he can use movement and hand seals to create diversion, while he is entering gate. If its a normal blitz then it isn't necessary to do it and continue to remove the gauntlet.
3. Unless CIS/PIS for the sake of not revealing what Danzo has.

and I gave you guy's response to it. Even worse he has to stop undoing the gauntlet to weave seals for the dust cloud.

Not a problem as one bolt was shown to be easily removed, 2 more will be as easy.

Speculation. Danzo had a shisui's sharingan out while sasuke didn't even have his sharingan out. Danzo not only benefited from sharingan's move prediction but sasuke's inability to see counters and tunnel vision.

Nothing wrong with reasoning considering he was keeping up with Sasuke with Shisui's eye uncharged, their whole fight.

I'll have to reread that fight. But by feats, part 2 power scaling, and data book kakashi's speed advantage is massive.

k

almost is worth nothing. Obito was mindless, and his approach to hiruzen was straight straightforward. Yet hiruzen still got hit with that v8. He needs his vegetable juice.

Agree to disagree you may say almost is worth nothing while to me almost is something, when compare power gap between Juubito and Hiruzen.

You kinda are if you're going to use that example for hiruzen.
A) he's an edo
B) in that situation he would have to have equal speed with someone who was hailed as fastest.
C)hashirama would also have to have equal speed with someone hailed as fastest.

That's just a bad example.

I guess. There still more evidence that leads he isnt slow nor getting blitz

 

[BenjerminGaye]

1.The Gauntlet is bolted to his hands..
2. He isn't doing one hand, if its a Gate Blitz then he can use movement and hand seals to create diversion, while he is entering gate. If its a normal blitz then it isn't necessary to do it and continue to remove the gauntlet.
3. Unless CIS/PIS for the sake of not revealing what Danzo has.

1. It's bolted to his forearm
2.if danzo uses a distraction(dust cloud(your example)) the act of guy entering gates automatically blows said cloud away. If guy doesn't use gates and danzo does what you said he does then your essentially putting up an armless old guy against a youthful taijutsu specialist. Since according to you he'll continue taking off the gauntlet.
3.it can't be cis since danzo made an active effort to take the seal off. Cis would be him waiting till sasuke showed up to take it off.it was off before sasuke showed up, but not before obito pwned his lackeys.

Not a problem as one bolt was shown to be easily removed, 2 more will be as easy.

manga scans disagree...a skirmish went down before the other two came off and he started taking off the first one the chapter before.

Nothing wrong with reasoning considering he was keeping up with Sasuke with Shisui's eye uncharged, their whole fight.

sasuke was murdering him that fight izanagi and his opponents lack of knowledge on it is the reason why danzo pushed him so hard.

Agree to disagree you may say almost is worth nothing while to me almost is something, when compare power gap between Juubito and Hiruzen.

I say it's worth nothing because despite hiruzen being a CONSIDERABLE distance away from a mindless flying juubito(flying speed<running speed) even though he had used an active distraction on juubito, even though he's a edo. He still got blitzed. Everyone else was much closer and still handled better.

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all that analysis and he still got caught.

I guess. There still more evidence that leads he isnt slow nor getting blitz

danzo not getting blitzed? Debatable he has sharingan precognition and can use it for izanagi effectively giving him enough time to undo his gauntlet. Hiruzen?no databook, featwise, and even hype wise(there's no hype about hiruzen's speed) he's inferior to kakashi and guy.

 

[Inert Brian]

Even if we don't use databook, by feats kakashi is still superior.

Even if we do take disregard situations in which guy started in gates the mindset is still to kill. Meaning a gates blitz or a raikiri blitz isn't out of the question. Especially in hiruzen's case.
I don't see a reason why either kakashi or guy would hiruzen or danzo to setup. Especially since they know exactly what the two are capable of(especially Danzo) if they do. Usually the only reason either of the two let their opponents set up is when they have no knowledge on their opponents. But once knowledge is acquired in kakashi's own words"your future is death" guy is forgetful though so he might just blitz on the sole"to kill" premise.

If you want to argue how danzo beats the both of them be my guest.

For how Danzo takes these two...

One is going to be fighting Hiruzen while the other fights Danzo. I don't think this can be denied.

If Kakashi is fighting Danzo: Danzo will get off Izanagi. Kakashi is going to use a clone to attack Danzo, Danzo will Curse Mark the clone, then as the clone goes *poof* Kakashi will Chidori Danzo. Kakashi then thinks he's killed Danzo, and Danzo Curse marks Kakashi similar to how Kakuzu got the jump on Kakashi when Kakashi thought he killed him.

Meanwhile... Gai is fighting Hiruzen and Enma. Eventually Gai will use the gates and Kill Hiruzen, then he goes after Danzo but he won't understand why Danzo keeps coming back to life. He'll think he's in genjutsu, and try to release it. Either Gai will take Danzo's wind attacks thinking he's just in a genjutsu and die, or Baku will force him to use the gates more and tire him out. Giving Danzo the win over Gai

If Gai fights Danzo: Danzo will bull rush Gai like he did to Sasuke. Gai will likely kill him, but wait! As Gai celebrates killing Danzo, he now finds a curse mark on him. Gai then uses the Gates to break the Curse mark's grip. Danzo then summons Baku. Asakujaku kills Baku, but Danzo keeps charging at Gai. Gai continues using the gates, even if he takes the gates off here he'll be fatigued and Danzo's fuuton will slice him.

Kakashi will be fighting Hiruzen in the mean time. Kakashi will be pushed back long enough from Enma, but eventually Kakashi is going to kill Hiruzen (actually, I won't be surprised if Hiruzen was able to RDS Kakashi, I say this because he successfully got Hashi, Tobirama, and Orochimaru together. Orochimaru was shown capable of taking on 4 tailed Naruto after all). Let's say Hiruzen dies from Raikiri though, He'll have to face Danzo. Kakashi will lose the same way I mentioned above, Izanagi sneak attacks will screw him over.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. It's bolted to his forearm
2.if danzo uses a distraction(dust cloud(your example)) the act of guy entering gates automatically blows said cloud away. If guy doesn't use gates and danzo does what you said he does then your essentially putting up an armless old guy against a youthful taijutsu specialist. Since according to you he'll continue taking off the gauntlet.
3.it can't be cis since danzo made an active effort to take the seal off. Cis would be him waiting till sasuke showed up to take it off.it was off before sasuke showed up, but not before obito pwned his lackeys.

1. What are we disagreeing here.
2. Gates Aura only blocks the clouds around him, it wont remove the dust clouds itsself. No Gates will be facing Futon weapons CQC.
3. We have seen him put effort to one and it took no diff at all. Everything else you are stating is exactly what definines suspense of revealing Danzo's mystery.

manga scans disagree...a skirmish went down before the other two came off and he started taking off the first one the chapter before.

No he didn't.

sasuke was murdering him that fight izanagi and his opponents lack of knowledge on it is the reason why danzo pushed him so hard.

No he wasn't. Danzo was abusing Izanagi jutsu. He already displayed dodging Susanoo when he wanted to and even exchanged blows with Sasuke, all while Danzo wanted to save chakra to face Obito.

I say it's worth nothing because despite hiruzen being a CONSIDERABLE distance away from a mindless flying juubito(flying speed<running speed) even though he had used an active distraction on juubito, even though he's a edo. He still got blitzed. Everyone else was much closer and still handled better.

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all that analysis and he still got caught.

Flying speed is faster... How did everyone else handle it better, scans?

danzo not getting blitzed? Debatable he has sharingan precognition and can use it for izanagi effectively giving him enough time to undo his gauntlet. Hiruzen?no databook, featwise, and even hype wise(there's no hype about hiruzen's speed) he's inferior to kakashi and guy.

Your exaggerating the downplay and 2nd I never said his speed is superior to Kakashi and Guy, I stated his speed and reaction is enough to no get blitz by them or any other speedsters out there.

 

[LuckyMan]

I already explained here how fast Old Hiruzen is

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They are not blitzing Hiruzen in this fight. If you read both threads, you will understand that Hiruzen's shunshin is on par with Minato's FTG and better than Narutos. Read them both please before continuing. They are not blitzing Hiruzen at all because he is faster than both of them and Danzo is on par with MS Sasuke, who is as fast as Kakashi. If anything, Hiruzen will one shot blitz them,

 

[Inert Brian]

I already explained here how fast Old Hiruzen is

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They are not blitzing Hiruzen in this fight. If you read both threads, you will understand that Hiruzen's shunshin is on par with Minato's FTG and better than Narutos. Read them both please before continuing. They are not blitzing Hiruzen at all because he is faster than both of them and Danzo is on par with MS Sasuke, who is as fast as Kakashi. If anything, Hiruzen will one shot blitz them,

I agree old Hiruzen is severely underestimated.

He was able to land RDS on Orochimaru, the same guy that was fighting 4 tailed Naruto and landing blows + would have stabbed him with Kusanagi if it could pierce.

 

[LuckyMan]

I agree old Hiruzen is severely underestimated.

He was able to land RDS on Orochimaru, the same guy that was fighting 4 tailed Naruto and landing blows + would have stabbed him with Kusanagi if it could pierce.

He is criminally underrated.

 

[Inert Brian]

He is criminally underrated.

Kishi never did him justice which pisses me off honestly.

Considering Part 1 hype/wanked him to be the strongest of the hokages. Even Part 1 Kabuto said he was the strongest of the gokage (that includes freaking Oonoki)

 

[BenjerminGaye]

For how Danzo takes these two...

One is going to be fighting Hiruzen while the other fights Danzo. I don't think this can be denied.

If Kakashi is fighting Danzo: Danzo will get off Izanagi. Kakashi is going to use a clone to attack Danzo, Danzo will Curse Mark the clone, then as the clone goes *poof* Kakashi will Chidori Danzo. Kakashi then thinks he's killed Danzo, and Danzo Curse marks Kakashi similar to how Kakuzu got the jump on Kakashi when Kakashi thought he killed him.

Meanwhile... Gai is fighting Hiruzen and Enma. Eventually Gai will use the gates and Kill Hiruzen, then he goes after Danzo but he won't understand why Danzo keeps coming back to life. He'll think he's in genjutsu, and try to release it. Either Gai will take Danzo's wind attacks thinking he's just in a genjutsu and die, or Baku will force him to use the gates more and tire him out. Giving Danzo the win over Gai

If Gai fights Danzo: Danzo will bull rush Gai like he did to Sasuke. Gai will likely kill him, but wait! As Gai celebrates killing Danzo, he now finds a curse mark on him. Gai then uses the Gates to break the Curse mark's grip. Danzo then summons Baku. Asakujaku kills Baku, but Danzo keeps charging at Gai. Gai continues using the gates, even if he takes the gates off here he'll be fatigued and Danzo's fuuton will slice him.

Kakashi will be fighting Hiruzen in the mean time. Kakashi will be pushed back long enough from Enma, but eventually Kakashi is going to kill Hiruzen (actually, I won't be surprised if Hiruzen was able to RDS Kakashi, I say this because he successfully got Hashi, Tobirama, and Orochimaru together. Orochimaru was shown capable of taking on 4 tailed Naruto after all). Let's say Hiruzen dies from Raikiri though, He'll have to face Danzo. Kakashi will lose the same way I mentioned above, Izanagi sneak attacks will screw him over.

Flaws in both arguments(swear we covered this already.) U assumed that neither kakashi or guy has Intel on izanagi despite Intel being full according to op.
If kakashi fights hiruzen he'll go for raikiri just like he did to pain, kakazu, hidan(got interrupted), and..everyone else. His speed is superior and with sharingan he can dodge and track enma and stab him. If he goes for shadow clone shuriken it's blocked by earth wall, followed up by hiding like mole and ends just like b4 with raikiri.

Then kakashi assists guy if necessary for danzo.


If guy fights hiruzen he gets asakujaku'd. Simple.

Danzo is the only problem but since neither will be caught off guard by izanagi it's only a matter of time. B4 he loses too.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I already explained here how fast Old Hiruzen is

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They are not blitzing Hiruzen in this fight. If you read both threads, you will understand that Hiruzen's shunshin is on par with Minato's FTG and better than Narutos. Read them both please before continuing. They are not blitzing Hiruzen at all because he is faster than both of them and Danzo is on par with MS Sasuke, who is as fast as Kakashi. If anything, Hiruzen will one shot blitz them,

I looked at both threads. Hiruzan and minato went to different locations, minato was backpacking his son and sasuke. Hiruzen wasn't even able to put up a guard when it comes to juubito where as minato blocked him and saved sasuke/naruto from him multiple times.

As for the second thread bsm naruto didn't have the means to escape the God tree. Hiruzen had infinite chakra so he didn't have to worry about getting sapped where as the tree was specifically targeting jinchuriki's.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Black imma get back to you tomorrow so far your the only one putting up a reasonable debate.

 

[LuckyMan]

I looked at both threads. Hiruzan and minato went to different locations, minato was backpacking his son and sasuke. Hiruzen wasn't even able to put up a guard when it comes to juubito where as minato blocked him and saved sasuke/naruto from him multiple times.

As for the second thread bsm naruto didn't have the means to escape the God tree. Hiruzen had infinite chakra so he didn't have to worry about getting sapped where as the tree was specifically targeting jinchuriki's.

False, you clearly didn't read because Minato and both Tobirama stressed they were all out of chakra because the shinju sucked most of it up. Naruto didn't have the means? Are you phucking kidding me? Thats like worse comeback point I have seen on these forums. The tree was specifically targeting jinchuriki? Are you phucking kidding me? You need to go re-read that chapter, you like..... seriously do. It does not matter if Minato and Hiruzen went to different locations, the point is they both had to go a long distance to escape the blast radius, Minato had to FTG his way out. Him backpacking Nardo and Sauce means absolutely crap as it does not slow him down whatsoever. Hiruzen escaped with his base shunshin, Minato needed FTG... come on man.

 

[Rike Senju]

Team 2 mid diff at best. Old hiruzen won't be much of a problem, without the Edo feats. Gai can solo him while kakashi fights Danzo. Once Gai finishes of hiruzen he comes and they gang up on Danzo. I'm only counting feats btw, before anybody starts bringing up Hiruzen's hype.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

False, you clearly didn't read because Minato and both Tobirama stressed they were all out of chakra because the shinju sucked most of it up. Naruto didn't have the means? Are you phucking kidding me? Thats like worse comeback point I have seen on these forums. The tree was specifically targeting jinchuriki? Are you phucking kidding me? You need to go re-read that chapter, you like..... seriously do. It does not matter if Minato and Hiruzen went to different locations, the point is they both had to go a long distance to escape the blast radius, Minato had to FTG his way out. Him backpacking Nardo and Sauce means absolutely crap as it does not slow him down whatsoever. Hiruzen escaped with his base shunshin, Minato needed FTG... come on man.

Claims tobirama and minato were out of chakra, despite both not only being edos, tobirama performing a jutsu immediately after, and minato still being in kcm mode.

Naruto didn't have the means. We already saw what madara's second hand wood Dragon(madara's wood techs<hashirama's<god tree wood) does to his kurama avatar. Minato only escaped with ftg. Naruto doesn't have ftg to escape. I.e. he doesn't have the means.

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Targeting bee cuz he has more chakra.

He ftg'd to save naruto and sasuke at the same time. Just because he used ftg to escape it doesn't mean it was necessary had it been him alone. Sasuke and naruto needed to get out as well.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

1. What are we disagreeing here.
2. Gates Aura only blocks the clouds around him, it wont remove the dust clouds itsself. No Gates will be facing Futon weapons CQC.
3. We have seen him put effort to one and it took no diff at all. Everything else you are stating is exactly what definines suspense of revealing Danzo's mystery.

1. It being on his forearm not his hand means he can still perform handseals with it on having nothing to do with the gauntlet. But if he wants to take it off he can't perform seals for jutsu since one of his hands is occupied with the task of taking off the seal.
2. Reread guy vs kisame clone for a clear understanding of the blast range created by opening the 6th gate. If he does this the dust clouds between him and danzo will be blasted away.
3.he started taking off one at the end of chapter 474 and was still taking off said one at beginning of 475. I won't even call you on assuming each lock/seal requires the same amount of time. No matter what excuses you make up it doesn't change him asking his subordinates to buy time for him.

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No he didn't.

Yeah he did.

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halfway though obito's fight he hasn't budged an inch and he's still removing the gauntlet

No he wasn't. Danzo was abusing Izanagi jutsu. He already displayed dodging Susanoo

when was this?

when he wanted to and even exchanged blows with Sasuke, all while Danzo wanted to save chakra to face Obito.

he never "exchanged blows" he always had to die just to attempt to land a hit on an unsuspecting sasuke. Once sasuke figured it out he started killing his ass of with kunai forcing him to respawn, instead of using his heavy techs that left him open. Save chakra? He was huffing and puffing at the end. He had to remove his arm and take a hostage.

Flying speed is faster... How did everyone else handle it better, scans?

no his running speed is faster. Flying gives him extra mobility. Minato blocked his kick, tobirama was able to hit him over five times for the chain explosions and Mark him for ftg. Sasuke blocked him with susanno but (since it's not senjutsu it got burned through).

Your exaggerating the downplay and 2nd I never said his speed is superior to Kakashi and Guy, I stated his speed and reaction is enough to no get blitz by them or any other speedsters out there.

I'm really not since unlike usually I can pull from feats hype and data book. And not just one or two of the three.
With kakashi using sharingan to make sure he lands the hit(like sasuke did vs ay, or like kakashi himself did in gaiden with only the 2 tome) or guy pulling out any gate number over 5 I don't see him blocking dodging or countering. Especially since he'd have to cover for danzo.