Bullshit. It's called the Uchiha tablet and it was in their possession for generations. There is too much evidence against Hagoromo being the only one who inscribed it.
It's stated very clearly that the stone was his. It doesn't even take any analysis from the reader.
Do not twist my words around. I stated we do not know if Indra had the Rinnegan or not whereas you stated he definitely didn't.
There's nothing to suggest he did, you're even going as far as to say the other brother had the rinnegan. The one with the fewer assumptions is the most accurate; Occam's razor.
You're just grasping for straws at this point.
I did not say that. I stated so far all we've seen is Hagoromo with the Rinnegan and that the rest of the tablet is inscribed for the sharingans, implying the Uchiha inscribed on it as well. Again, do not twist my words.
I said you suggested it.
@Bold, exactly. It was also stated that it was his. Again, Occam's razor. He's the one that inscribed writings only the Rinnegan can see. According to your logic, he wrote on the tablet without even dropping a clue to what those writings meant; since the Uchiha would first have to awaken MS, presumably EMS, and then Rinnegan to even read the message. The likelihood of them even believing it can be decoded by the eyes would be little to none. Hell, Hagoromo didn't even leave a clue about the Senju/Uchiha combination (increasing the possibility of them getting stuck at EMS since they would have no idea about a higher doujutsu). It would be completely meaningless of Hagoromo to leave any kind of message if it wasn't accessible to the Sharingan.
I'm not twisting your words. I'm using logic.
And again, you twist my words. If you are trying to piss me off, it is working to perfection. I never stated Madara did it. I stated the secrets of his body were inscribed there which was what he stated.
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You did state that Madra wrote on it:
That further implies that Madara too inscribed text on the stone.
Now can you stop saying I'm twisting your words? You're pissing yourself off for no reason. And dude, you now just retracted that statement and said Madara didn't inscribe it. That means someone else did with Madara being aware of it?? It would lead back to my point that Madara was only concerned with his dream world, and leaving secrets of his body serves no purpose to Madara's plan.
The people in the village did not possess his eyes. None could unlock them. He stated it was impossible for someone to read it and in the end, he was the only one left in the world who knew of Kaguya and the Shinju. People leave records of their studies all the time and encrypt them. It's not that out of the ordinary.
Stated it was impossible for someone to read it? Then what's the point of writing it on the
Tablet if no one was going to read it -.-? There's also the fact that he never stated no one could read "the secrets of his body on the tablet", he just said someone that's not an Uchiha.
And again, according to his belief, the world would be sleeping within his genjutsu in due time, and he'll be immortal making that tablet completely useless.
I reiterate: the secrets of his body was that he combined the powers of Senju/Uchiha, something that would be pointless since such info was already stated.
There's no basis for that.
If he was to inscribe something on the Uchiha tablet, yes there is a basis for that.
Madara was revived via Edo Tensei from a separate party obtaining his DNA, not Rinne Tensei and stated things had not been going according to his plan. Furthermore, he told Obito of Infinite Tsukuyomi. Try again?
I don't even know what his revival via Edo Tensei has to do with anything, since it's not like he gave instructions for someone to do that. He deceived Obito, which is blatantly clear. In fact, this proves my point, he didn't want Obito to be the one to initiate Mugen Tsukuyomi, but he wanted to do it himself. Even Black Zetsu (Madara's will, by the way) and White Zetsu was on Madara's side the whole time, and didn't even care for Obito, they were deceiving him. Again, Madara wanted to be the only one, not inscribe some secret for future generations of Uchiha.
Please do not lecture me about Madara, especially when you are forgetting aspects of his and when it is off-topic. Madara doesn't have a dream. He has a nightmare he took from someone else, instigated by an ancient story, jealousy, paranoia and a god complex.
Aw come on, this is just splitting hairs. Dream or nightmare, it doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making. Madara calls it his dream world because the
real world is a nightmare to him.
Because he may have been the one who created the concept as a whole.
Yet you believe the translation that says Indra and his ancestors anticipated someone might combine the powers, thus left secrets with the details to do so?
Dude, I'm not twisting your words. You're doing that all on your own.
Mangapanda is a poorly translated site according to my sources.
It's interesting how you admit mistranslations happened so many times before, yet refuse to believe that your translations are mistranslated.
I'm not even adverse to the idea there may have been a mistranslation in Viz/Mangapanda, but the logic you're presenting to my points has so many holes in it.
Hagoromo stated he left the monument. He didn't state he wrote everything on it. Are you aware how many religious texts have been altered throughout the ages?
There's a few statements in the manga affirming that he wrote it, nothing suggesting that the son wrote anything on it have been mentioned until now. However, there's a couple translations that's against that translation. It is not without merit to believe Hagoromo was the one to write everything on it.
Is it possible they wrote on it too? Yes. However, all we have is a translation that may be mistranslated. Although, you're missing the point by a mile. Even if Hagoromo didn't write everything on it, just writing on it encourages a person like Madara, and any Uchiha like him. The more powerful one's eyes, the more they can decode.
There is no indication that Madara is aware he was Indra's reincarnation. He can't figure out that Sasuke is either.
You've missed the point here. Both translations suggest he was the only one to do such a thing. It's the power of Indra's and Ashura's chakra that awakened the rinnegan (by awakening Hagormo's chakra), not mere senju and uchiha DNA.
And that means what to me? You believe Ashura or Hagoromo's brother would not have been able to seal it, especially given how vague their powers have been described and the fact that his brother helped him seal the juubi?
Back into the moon? I think that's highly unlikely. His brother helped sealed the Juubi into Hagormo, not the moon. When the rinnegan was awakened, the seal was undone. It's definitely tied with the rinnegan, and believing it was one of the brothers instead of Hagoromo (which was stated in the manga) is a baseless assumption. I mean even in the stories that was told (those who knew about Hagoromo such as Jiraiya), he was the only one mentioned as having the rinnegan.
His brother could have had Rinnegan for all we know.
And Hagoromo could also possibly have had a daughter that used the rinnegan, we're just not being told about it yet (and Kishi's keeping it a secret). I mean come on, let's not resort to such assumptions that his brother had it.
Show me where it says that someone else sealed it into the moon.
Except for his brother and Indra. That's not evidence. That's your assumption.
Your arguments are fueled with assumption. Does that mean it's a stalemate? Does that mean people can go on berating Hagoromo since you defend him?
Hagoromo was the only one stated having to awake the rinnegan prior to Madara. That's not assumption. With this logic, it means that I can state anything that haven't been shown in the manga, and as long as there's nothing stating it
didn't happen, I can use "That's your assumption!"
Though we'd have a Deidara who gained weight and became obese during sometime he was with Akatsuki, then lost it by the time we saw him. Sasori loves to waltz with his puppets when no one's watching, and Sai loves to draw schlong's and then animate them with his chakra/jutsu.
And guess what? You can't say this didn't happen!
There's enough logic to uphold Hagoromo being the only one to awaken Rinnegan prior to Madara.
So now you're admitting Indra may have had Rinnegan? Doing so would be contradicting yourself. By your logic, neither could read it because neither had the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan manifests by combing the blood and chakra of both brothers, that includes the Senju taking Uchiha DNA as well.
I'm talking about Hagoromo. That's my point, he encouraged it since it can only be read by combining the DNA/chakra of both.
Furthermore, by the looks of it, you must be there direct reincarnations. Something that has also not been mentioned on the stone. If that were the case, Madara would have realized Naruto and Sasuke are the reincarnations. Right now, all he can figure is that there's something more to Sasuke than he being a blood relative.
You realize you don't have a point here? Your argument is based on that translation, which states that Indra and his ancestors was aware
that someone in their familiy would do as Madara did. The secrets to obtaining the power was on that stone before Madara's time, even according to your own argument.
Granted, it may not have specified the the bit about the reincarnations. However, Madara's knowledge of that has little to no relevance to this discussion. I was merely stating that he was the first to ever do that.
Please stop mixing Senju DNA mixed with Uchiha with Ashura and Indra's. It's not the same thing. The Uchiha and Senju are their descendants. They are not them. If it were the same, all those Uchiha Itachi mentioned who used Izanagi could have manifested Rinnegan.
I'm not mixing it, the distinctions I made earlier was mentioned because that's what Madara did.
And now you are twisting Hagoromo's words. He stated he left the monument to reform their thinking. He didn't state he told them of the secret.
You finally admitted he wrote something on it! This is one of my main points, writing anything on it would have been meaningless if he didn't anticipate them obtaining such power. Especially if they came so far as to achieve the rinnegan to read what he wrote Lol? They'd just stop? That would still be extremely naive.
And honestly, Hagoromo didn't know if it was going to be thousands of years later before someone awaken's the rinnegan. What guarantee is there that it would even be kept that long if the Uchihas even with EMS couldn't decipher it (assuming the Uchiha themselves never wrote anything on it, since that is what you believe)? Hell, it's rare for them to even awaken the MS. It'll just look like some stone with a bunch of gibberish on it.
As a matter of fact, you emphasized it being the Uchiha's tablet, implying that it didn't have much significance until they started writing all over it. So, Hagoromo wrote on it, and expected it to
kept when no Uchiha know what the damn thing is for?
Again, I'm just using logic here. He was most likely able to write it so the lower levels of the doujutsu can decipher it as well.
Subjective. And I don't see you backing up those words. He's the first Uchiha. He may have been born with it for all we know or naturally unlocked it and he possessed the perfect susano'o like Sasuke and Madara who possess Rinnegan while using it.
I've been stating my points all throughout my posts. The scans would make this discussion a lot longer, and I assume you're aware of the events I'm describing.
Subjective? I don't see what your problem is with people berating Hagoromo then, if this is all subjective. I mean you believe you have enough evidence to support him, others believe they have enough evidence to criticize him.
By the way, you admit this every time you use the words "assumption" and "subjective". In your mind, it depends on one's perspective. You're supporting your side, others theirs.
I never stated there wasn't.
Which leads into my point about Hagoromo being the only one to awaken Rinnegan before Madara.
No, I stated that is the implication.
Hm. Mind talking about that implication? I want to get you to see the point yourself.
And again, no he didn't. There is no basis that he encouraged it because nothing states that he wrote that specific revelation.
He wrote something that only the rinnegan can read, to reform their thinking with no certainty at all they wouldn't throw it out because it's apparently meaningless? Logically, there was some clue to the nature of tablet. A clue encourages one to get the power to read more.
Or one of the senju may have taken Uchiha DNA or eyes as well.
So he encourages the senju to take the eyes of an Uchiha just to read about his family history and the Shinju? That seems a bit extreme. Why should it have anything to do with acquiring the power of the other?
He could have just wrote it in a normal language.
