Tobi w/ Bijuu vs Kabuto

[warlee]

The only fight kabuto wins is the one with his top 3 edos.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-Obito did not even use Kamui when he was attempting to attack Kabuto,,,

The meant nothing. My point still stands that he can keep his distance until he is ready to go on the offense.

-Kabuto is not sensiing someone who is in the other dimension.,, nor does he have the attack speed to attack obito once he materialises,,, Obito is warping kabuto,,

His attack speed already fooled the Sharingan via Itachi being cut. 2nd) Kabuto has extra limbs that can attack on their own.

-Splitting body into fluid is completely useless since kabuto still needs to manifest physically to attack tobi,,,as even if Kabuto has manage to catch Obito off guard,,m all of his attacks lack the near FTG level speed to attack Obito effectively

This premise had nothing to doing with attack but diverting to enter Sage Mode.

-No way in hell is Kabutos liquifying ability going to cut it against 5 TBB,, or a super TBB from bijuus,,,

Where did I state this?

Kabuto has got nothing on the bijuu at all,, neither do his edos that are allowed in this matchup

Kabuto has so many tactics making Obito's arsenals trolled in useless. Which I will mention down below

-The BIjuus and GM allow many diversions for Tobi, to simply proceed Kabuto and warp him

Kabuto's Edo are much worst. Imma quote a sample:

Tactic 1: Once Edo's are summon, he immediately has Zabuza use Hidden Mist to cover the field. With this Buijuus and Obito visions are blocked and cannot see Kabutos counter. Randomly bombarding the field will be useless as the Edo's will just be regenerating and recover back to normal. Zabuza will always be with Kabuto so the caster will be safe, as Kabuto will sense everything thats going on, and will put Zabuza and him in the safest spots

Tactic 2: Once the Mist is set, Kabuto has 2nd Mizukage add another Mist of top of Hidden Mist. So now Obito will deal with Mirages of every character he is facing while having difficulty seeing in the Mist due to the Sharingan only seeing color chakra.

Conclusion: Once all this is set Kabuto eventually gets Obito while the Edo Kages can each take care of the Buijuu's on their own.

1. His edos are that are permitted in this matchup are too weak to compete against the bijuus and are getting annihilated against a barrage of TBB

lol What each Edo Kage can take care of a Buijuu, especially with the tactic I post above making this too easy

2.His body fluids and liquifying abilities arent very effective,, especially since they wont be able to stop Tobi from binding kabuto through the chakra rods,,, the same rods that binded 6 bijuu

Except his perpetual ability surpasses Obito, on top of extra limbs taking care of any point he is being strike.

3. Kabuto is not landing any poison based attack on Tobi,, as he would need an attack of near instant (FTG) level speed to effectively land a hit on Obito,, since Kabuto lacks an attack of such speeed,, his poison based attacks are rendered useless

Same as above.

 

[ARGUS]

The meant nothing. My point still stands that he can keep his distance until he is ready to go on the offense.

IIts still useless since Kabuto has got literally no effective way to attack Obito,, furthermore,,, obito didnt even use kamui in the scans u provided,,, so ur point is moot

His attack speed already fooled the Sharingan via Itachi being cut. 2nd) Kabuto has extra limbs that can attack on their own.

1. When did kabutos attacks fool the sharingan,,???,, he simply had better reflexes and reactions than the Uchiha bros.. Obito is a S/T user who can teleport,, as no sensor has shown the ability to sense someone coming from the other dimension,,,
Kabuto is not sensing obito,, neither is he fooling him,,

2.Extra limbs mean nothing at all when kabuto cant attack him quicker than Tobi

This premise had nothing to doing with attack but diverting to enter Sage Mode.

Again,, entering DSM is still useless for Kabuto,, since White Rage doesnt last longer than 5 minutes,, his DSM techniques arent even scratching 6 bijuu,,, and his durability is not enough to allow him to survive mountain dwarfing TBB

Where did I state this?

You stated that Kabuto can fool Tobi by liquifying,, although even that is futile,,,
since he Kabuto would stil have to manifest into a physical being in-order to attackk Obito,,,
and liquifying doesnt prevent kabuto from TBB,,,

Kabuto has so many tactics making Obito's arsenals trolled in useless. Which I will mention down below

1. Zabuzas Hidden Mist jutsu doesnt have a large enough AOE to completely blind side the bijuu,, furthermore Tobi can simply let the bijuu destroy the landscape as well as Zabuza,,,
Again,, Second Mizukages mist and clam is also getting destroyed due to the sheer AOE of TBB,,, that will destroy the entire landscape,,, including the clam,, Kabuto is also not surviving the TBB at all since he simply cant evade/tank or redirect it,,,
Rashomons got destroyed by a mini-TBB from KN4,,, the bijuus would obliterate it,,

2. How is Kabuto getting Obito,, when the latter can simply use Kamui as a defense, and stay intangible for most of their encounter,, moreover Kabuto getting close to Obito would be his biggest mistakke since obito can warp him quite easilyy, seeing that Minato barely managed to evade the kamui warp at CQC through FTG (another S/T jutsu)

lol What each Edo Kage can take care of a Buijuu, especially with the tactic I post above making this too easy

The battle between edo kage and bijuu is useless if Kabuto is killed,,,

Except his perpetual ability surpasses Obito, on top of extra limbs taking care of any point he is being strike.

How are his sensing abilities helping when he simply cant sense soomeone from another void,,,, furthermore the kamui is too fast,, and having extra limbs are not preventing kabuto from getting warped in any way whatsoever,,

 

[Brother Numpsay]

IIts still useless since Kabuto has got literally no effective way to attack Obito,, furthermore,,, obito didnt even use kamui in the scans u provided,,, so ur point is moot

You arent getting my point. And now I know why. Your first point was already assuming Obito already has Kabuto in his hands.

1. When did kabutos attacks fool the sharingan,,???,, he simply had better reflexes and reactions than the Uchiha bros.. Obito is a S/T user who can teleport,, as no sensor has shown the ability to sense someone coming from the other dimension,,,

@Bold Confusion with our claims, since I never stated he couldn't

Kabuto is not sensing obito,, neither is he fooling him,,

Until he materializes.

2.Extra limbs mean nothing at all when kabuto cant attack him quicker than Tobi

It means alot as Tobi needs to materializes in order to land a hit. Kabuto's reflexes>>Obito

Again,, entering DSM is still useless for Kabuto,, since White Rage doesnt last longer than 5 minutes,, his DSM techniques arent even scratching 6 bijuu,,, and his durability is not enough to allow him to survive mountain dwarfing TBB

No it isn't DSM makes its near impossible for Obito to touch Kabuto due to his perceptual ability surpassing any Uchiha by feats. I didn't even take White Rage nor Muki Tensei into consideration yet, as they play the defensive role then offensive.

You stated that Kabuto can fool Tobi by liquifying,, although even that is futile,,,

How is that futile when it had Itachi, more intellectual character then Obito and Sasuke 2nd Guessing on where to attack or detect the real Kabuto[

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since he Kabuto would stil have to manifest into a physical being in-order to attackk Obito,,,

That wasn't my premise. P.S. so does Obito

and liquifying doesnt prevent kabuto from TBB,,,

Never made that claim

1. Zabuzas Hidden Mist jutsu doesnt have a large enough AOE to completely blind side the bijuu,,

What, this jutsu was large enough to cover 1/5 the SA division via Kakashi's.

furthermore Tobi can simply let the bijuu destroy the landscape as well as Zabuza,,,

Except my premise shows Kabutos sensory will sense an incoming charge to move at a safe spot and that he will be following Kabuto.

Again,, Second Mizukages mist and clam is also getting destroyed due to the sheer AOE of TBB,,, that will destroy the entire landscape,,, including the clam,,

Except it will be destroyed by Jinton (along with some of them, 3rd Raikage Blitzes, Joki Boy blowing on their faces, Perfect Susanoo slashes(scenario 2), suppressed by Gold Sand or using lethal attacks, Amaterasu, ST+Animal Paths, Dan's spirit attack, sealed by Kinkaku/Ginkaku, etc. Mokuton. The show goes on.

Kabuto is also not surviving the TBB at all since he simply cant evade/tank or redirect it,,,

Evades it by sense chakra builds and Doton's out or have other Edo's blitz. He can also use Doton Mole. He can also use Zetsu inside of him.

He can redirect a TBB back to Buijuu's by using Senpou webs since it can hold more then a ton, and repel it back.

Rashomons got destroyed by a mini-TBB from KN4,,, the bijuus would obliterate it,,

Who cares, never use this in my argument.

2. How is Kabuto getting Obito,, when the latter can simply use Kamui as a defense, and stay intangible for most of their encounter,, moreover Kabuto getting close to Obito would be his biggest mistakke since obito can warp him quite easilyy, seeing that Minato barely managed to evade the kamui warp at CQC through FTG (another S/T jutsu)

Except he will have other Edo's to attack him since the goal is to use little attack, since big attacks are useless against Obito. You have Torune, who canonically got close of success, Sai's brother, etc. Also add the fact that Genjutsu mirages can be use to fool him from attack Obito.

The battle between edo kage and bijuu is useless if Kabuto is killed,,,

To bad he wouldn't be with so much arsenals in his possession

How are his sensing abilities helping when he simply cant sense soomeone from another void,,,, furthermore the kamui is too fast,, and having extra limbs are not preventing kabuto from getting warped in any way whatsoever,,

Never said he could sense him in Kamui, I said he can sense him when he materializes. He can only attack when he materializes. Of course it will as he will have second hands attacking Obito if he attempts to even touch Kabuto.

 

[Draphsin]

Idk why anyone cannot debate Obito like you.

Probably because they don't try :dunno:, either that or they think he's weak. I however enjoy debating with him the most.

@Bold, where did that come from? Every character has different speed, second the intel is clear from OP. Speed argument isnt helping.

He witnessed kabuto do the ritual for edo, & he witnessed kabuto as he summoned the edos coffins, & all with his sharingan. Obito knows the speed of edo tensei [assuming the obito in this scenario is the one with manga info].

Intel isn't really clear, does this mean that obito doesn't know what kabuto showed him? I understand the restriction on knowing what edos kabuto has but that shouldn't change the fact that he's seen the jutsu. Plus in the OP it's saying that they won, which would imply that obito has the info he gained before the war started.

Base Kabuto already clear the gap between each other, he isn't stopping Kabuto, since he still has tricks up his sleeves Obito doesn't know about.

Base kabuto was able to clear the gap from obito with his shunshin, obito didn't teleport & teleporting will stop him. & Obito isn't sticking around to check out kabuto's full arsenal like he did with konan because he won't underestimate him. He'll make this a quick match.

Once these are out Edo's will be out too, so Kabuto will proceed to make tatics to finish off Obito and making his summons useless on the feild.

The edos have a coffin to step out of, once they're aware of the situation the gedo can use an AoE attack to blow them away. Summons aren't useless, they make for great crowd control.

I don't think you understand the tactic edos can perform, and isn't helping or stopping them from doing it.

The edos will be of no use if they can't harm obito, they will have to defend themselves against the initial attack caused by the summons. & If obito uses his chakra rods in conjunction with that attack he can render many of the edos unable to fight then move on to warp/restrain kabuto.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

He witnessed kabuto do the ritual for edo, & he witnessed kabuto as he summoned the edos coffins, & all with his sharingan. Obito knows the speed of edo tensei [assuming the obito in this scenario is the one with manga info].

Intel isn't really clear, does this mean that obito doesn't know what kabuto showed him? I understand the restriction on knowing what edos kabuto has but that shouldn't change the fact that he's seen the jutsu. Plus in the OP it's saying that they won, which would imply that obito has the info he gained before the war started.

Everything you said is correct, I was mentioning how you think it is as easy as it sounds to try to finish off Kabuto "quickly".

Base kabuto was able to clear the gap from obito with his shunshin, obito didn't teleport & teleporting will stop him. & Obito isn't sticking around to check out kabuto's full arsenal like he did with konan because he won't underestimate him. He'll make this a quick match.

Is there proof his teleport is faster then his foot speed? I always notice that warping himself from one Destination to another is still a little slower. It is also more obvious to see himself warping, with the only tricky part being where he would appear.

Anyway he will do the same thing he did to Itachi and Sasuke, the beginning of the fight.

The edos have a coffin to step out of, once they're aware of the situation the gedo can use an AoE attack to blow them away. Summons aren't useless, they make for great crowd control.

That isnt a fair conclusion via Gazo comes out before Edos. Since both parties cannot start the battles with summons, we must assume when it does, both will use it at the same time.

I didn't mean useless in general sense but the "premise" I was going to make when facing Kabuto's arsenals. I post it:

"Tactic 1: Once Edo's are summon, he immediately has Zabuza use Hidden Mist to cover the field. With this Buijuus and Obito visions are blocked and cannot see Kabutos counter. Randomly bombarding the field will be useless as the Edo's will just be regenerating and recover back to normal. Zabuza will always be with Kabuto so the caster will be safe, as Kabuto will sense everything thats going on, and will put Zabuza and him in the safest spots

Tactic 2: Once the Mist is set, Kabuto has 2nd Mizukage add another Mist of top of Hidden Mist. So now Obito will deal with Mirages/Genjutsu of every character he is facing while having difficulty seeing in the Mist due to the Sharingan only seeing color chakra.

Conclusion: Once all this is set Kabuto eventually gets Obito while the Edo Kages can each take care of the Buijuu's on their own."

The edos will be of no use if they can't harm obito, they will have to defend themselves against the initial attack caused by the summons. & If obito uses his chakra rods in conjunction with that attack he can render many of the edos unable to fight then move on to warp/restrain kabuto.

Same as my premise above. The nooby Edo's like Sai's brother, or Torune (who was conically close to poisoning Obito) and run up to Obito, since they are good using Cqc/ non big jutsus. Using them to pressure Obito from forcing him to Kamui defense and attempting to warp them. So in the end we will have

1. Edo CQC sacrifice
2. Mirages attacking, to fool Obito
3. Long range snipe in mist, waiting for the opening.

 

[Draphsin]

Everything you said is correct, I was mentioning how you think it is as easy as it sounds to try to finish off Kabuto "quickly".

Oh I see. Okay well we've seen how obito likes to play around with his enemies, which results in a longer battle or in him taking some silly damage.

He underestimated konan & so he nearly got caught by her suicide bomb. He also played around with danzo's dogs, thus he willingly lost an arm in the process.

Same thing with with minato, & naruto actually. But The point is that he plays around with his enemies quite a bit. However he's very cautious towards kabuto, so instead of just trying to toy with him he will start out by bringing his summons into the fight. He would need to disorient kabuto then he can quickly make a grab for him or stab him with chakra rods.

Is there proof his teleport is faster then his foot speed? I always notice that warping himself from one Destination to another is still a little slower. It is also more obvious to see himself warping, with the only tricky part being where he would appear.

Zetsu portrayed his teleportation to be lightspeed, but portrayal isn't everything so here's an example of his warp speed.

Spoiler

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KM naruto missed his attack, so he can teleport faster than a KCM point blank strike. & Afterwards obito immediately teleported to another location. Using kamui to traverse small distances is extremely beneficial when the enemy can't land a hit. So if KCM naruto is having a hard time then anyone below his speed will also have a problem.

Obito can also travel the ground via intangibility quite fast. He was able to appear in front of fuu immediately after kicking his arm at him. [

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I'd say his teleportation/kamui speed is faster than his shunshin.

Anyway he will do the same thing he did to Itachi and Sasuke, the beginning of the fight.

What are you referring to? Hiding his head under his hood? That would be bad news because obito can warp right underneath him like he did to fuu.

Kabuto's snakes can be pinned down by a barrage of chakra rods, & if he tries to use his snakes to slither away to prep SM then obito can see their location & he can pin/warp them easily.

That isnt a fair conclusion via Gazo comes out before Edos. Since both parties cannot start the battles with summons, we must assume when it does, both will use it at the same time.

Yes they will use them at the same time, but what I'm saying is that it takes longer for edos to be summoned than it does for the gedo to be. Edos have to step out of a coffin, which puts them at a disadvantage in the situation they're in. [

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] Because obito knows this by seeing the jutsu in action, he'll be aware of the fact that he has to use the gedo for immediate crowd control. & So by the time the edos know they're in a battle they'll already be getting blown away.

This then gives obito the chance he needs to warp/restrain kabuto.

I didn't mean useless in general sense but the "premise" I was going to make when facing Kabuto's arsenals. I post it:

"Tactic 1: Once Edo's are summon, he immediately has Zabuza use Hidden Mist to cover the field. With this Buijuus and Obito visions are blocked and cannot see Kabutos counter. Randomly bombarding the field will be useless as the Edo's will just be regenerating and recover back to normal. Zabuza will always be with Kabuto so the caster will be safe, as Kabuto will sense everything thats going on, and will put Zabuza and him in the safest spots

This isn't going to work with chomei on the field, & using it to bombard the mist will result in kabuto dying, because he would have no place to hide & the radius of hidden mist isn't larger than a tbb blast radius.

Plus the gedo can still use it's shockwave to blow the mist away.

Tactic 2: Once the Mist is set, Kabuto has 2nd Mizukage add another Mist of top of Hidden Mist. So now Obito will deal with Mirages/Genjutsu of every character he is facing while having difficulty seeing in the Mist due to the Sharingan only seeing color chakra.

Obito doesn't need to be inside the mist, if kabuto attempts this obito will leave the immediate area & start attacking from a distance. Obito has plenty of moves that can not only overwhelm the mist but make it a detriment as well.

Conclusion: Once all this is set Kabuto eventually gets Obito while the Edo Kages can each take care of the Buijuu's on their own."

The only kage that has a chance at doing something is muu, but he will still be susceptible to a shockwave which blows him back. & Even if the kage manage to hold back some bijuu, there's only a handful of them but there's more bijuu, so they would be overwhelmed in not only power but numbers as well.

All in all kabuto just doesn't have a fast enough answer for the gedo's shockwave followed up by a warp/rod spam.

Same as my premise above. The nooby Edo's like Sai's brother, or Torune (who was conically close to poisoning Obito) and run up to Obito, since they are good using Cqc/ non big jutsus. Using them to pressure Obito from forcing him to Kamui defense and attempting to warp them.

None of this will be able to work while the gedo & bijuu can easily dish out attacks on an enormous scale. The gedo can swat them away if he chooses to, bakufuu ranbu deals will a large portion of the fodders, uchiha kaenjin can take care of some, & chakra rods can permanently bind the edos that they pierce. By the way I know these are mostly temporary solutions, but all obito needs to do is create a clear path towards kabuto, & that's what knocking them aside will do. [

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& Lastly obito can't be pressured, the edos that go for cqc will be met with intangibility & confusion.

Spoiler

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In addition to creating confusion, he can pretty much use the ground like water & swim through it as well.

So in the end we will have

1. Edo CQC sacrifice
2. Mirages attacking, to fool Obito
3. Long range snipe in mist, waiting for the opening.

1. Cqc edos are useless due to the power of the gedo mazou + intangibility.

2. Mirages are pretty useless too due to obito's ability to see chakra + his large scale jutsus.

3. Finally mist is also useless due to chomei's ability to fly & spam the battlefield with bijuudamas.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Oh I see. Okay well we've seen how obito likes to play around with his enemies, which results in a longer battle or in him taking some silly damage.

He underestimated konan & so he nearly got caught by her suicide bomb. He also played around with danzo's dogs, thus he willingly lost an arm in the process.

Same thing with with minato, & naruto actually. But The point is that he plays around with his enemies quite a bit. However he's very cautious towards kabuto, so instead of just trying to toy with him he will start out by bringing his summons into the fight. He would need to disorient kabuto then he can quickly make a grab for him or stab him with chakra rods.

I never seen him played around with his enemies, once he revealed who he "truly" was. His battles resulted in long battles due to the troubles he was facing with his enemies..

1. underestimating someone isn't necessary playing around, he had full intent to defeat her and get Nagato's corpse. He didn't know what she had up her "sleeves" to try and defeat him, and he wasn't cautious enough, which he admitted.
2. He didn't play around with danzo's dog he realized their strategy combo they made that could take his life and made his own, even playing dirty. He had no choice but to sacrifice his arm, otherwise he can't warp him.
3. Not sure why you said Naruto and Minato either..

Zetsu portrayed his teleportation to be lightspeed, but portrayal isn't everything so here's an example of his warp speed.

Spoiler

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KM naruto missed his attack, so he can teleport faster than a KCM point blank strike. & Afterwards obito immediately teleported to another location. Using kamui to traverse small distances is extremely beneficial when the enemy can't land a hit. So if KCM naruto is having a hard time then anyone below his speed will also have a problem.

Obito can also travel the ground via intangibility quite fast. He was able to appear in front of fuu immediately after kicking his arm at him. [

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I'd say his teleportation/kamui speed is faster than his shunshin.

Your reasoning for using KM Naruto wasn't best as the chapter explained he was tired and giving out too much energy protecting the SA. You can also see him in that chapter transporting his body. So the actual speed for removing his presence is fast, but the transportation is very visible.

Overall I still think his Shushin and Kamui need to and has work together.

What are you referring to? Hiding his head under his hood? That would be bad news because obito can warp right underneath him like he did to fuu.

Kabuto's snakes can be pinned down by a barrage of chakra rods, & if he tries to use his snakes to slither away to prep SM then obito can see their location & he can pin/warp them easily.

1. He doesn't just hide his head he has his summoning warped around him fighting for him at first. They will be protecting him from all sides and strike once they sense his presence.

These snakes were fast enough to scatter away from Sasuke and Itachi, so barrage aim isn't accurate enough to catch all of them, even when Itachi and Sasuke attempt this there were more then 4 outputs of snakes that they saw from the beginning. It will fool the Sharingan as much for Obito. Especially when this isn't only method of keeping distance and gathering natural energy, since he can perform Doton, and Manda II can support him as well.

Yes they will use them at the same time, but what I'm saying is that it takes longer for edos to be summoned than it does for the gedo to be. Edos have to step out of a coffin, which puts them at a disadvantage in the situation they're in. [

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] Because obito knows this by seeing the jutsu in action, he'll be aware of the fact that he has to use the gedo for immediate crowd control. & So by the time the edos know they're in a battle they'll already be getting blown away.

This then gives obito the chance he needs to warp/restrain kabuto.

I could say once Edo is summoned, GM will be roaring and making his intro appearing too. So Kabuto already takes advantage by stripping their will and prepare to attack. Especially when he will have Snake summons on the field for support. Also Edo's can spawn where ever Kabuto wants on the field, as they dont need to be close in GM range. Notice the range he used his other Edo to summon 7 swordsmen[

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>

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]. There are too many options Kabuto can play without being at a dis advantage.

This isn't going to work with chomei on the field, & using it to bombard the mist will result in kabuto dying, because he would have no place to hide & the radius of hidden mist isn't larger than a tbb blast radius.

Plus the gedo can still use it's shockwave to blow the mist away.

Actually the mist cover much more range, as Edo Zabuza had to fight 1/5 of the SA. So by looking at 1/5[

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] of them (spread around the field) that is a good range to cover all the Edo's on the field. So once TBB is being charge Kabuto will already have them commanded to counter or get out of range.

GM shockwave range is shorter then Zabuza, since Zabuza won't even be in Buijuu or GM's range, he will just restock, covering the range again that was pushed+ GenjutsuMirages will have him fooled to think he is aiming at the right Edo's.

Obito doesn't need to be inside the mist, if kabuto attempts this obito will leave the immediate area & start attacking from a distance. Obito has plenty of moves that can not only overwhelm the mist but make it a detriment as well.

The only options here is flying, Obito too focus to escape will have Edo's back stabbing him and land Buijuus. For Obito to detriment the mist would mean he will be materialized, which any long range and fire at him inside the mist.

The only kage that has a chance at doing something is muu, but he will still be susceptible to a shockwave which blows him back. & Even if the kage manage to hold back some bijuu, there's only a handful of them but there's more bijuu, so they would be overwhelmed in not only power but numbers as well.

All in all kabuto just doesn't have a fast enough answer for the gedo's shockwave followed up by a warp/rod spam.

Muu wouldn't be in the in their range anyway has he will play the long range fighter. We also have 2nd Mizukage Joki boi that can Knock one out of range, we also have 3rd Raikage who tied with 8 tails, so in the Mist he can easily Blitz kill one or two, since he was strong and fast enough to take out all 8 tails in one swoop, so a lethal strike anywhere else is over. We have Fourth Kazekage that can rain down Gold Dust suppressing them, making them easier targets. We have Amaterasu, Nagato Paths combo too etc. Kabuto wins by numbers and power. Just because he lacks mountain busters, doesn't mean any of the Edo's jutsu aren't as lethal to kill. Some can even repel TBB's .Then there Edo Madara lol, which I won't even touch.

None of this will be able to work while the gedo & bijuu can easily dish out attacks on an enormous scale. The gedo can swat them away if he chooses to, bakufuu ranbu deals will a large portion of the fodders, uchiha kaenjin can take care of some, & chakra rods can permanently bind the edos that they pierce. By the way I know these are mostly temporary solutions, but all obito needs to do is create a clear path towards kabuto, & that's what knocking them aside will do. [

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Same premise as above

& Lastly obito can't be pressured, the edos that go for cqc will be met with intangibility & confusion.

Spoiler

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In addition to creating confusion, he can pretty much use the ground like water & swim through it as well.

Kabuto will be controlling them, there will be no confusion

1. Cqc edos are useless due to the power of the gedo mazou + intangibility.

2. Mirages are pretty useless too due to obito's ability to see chakra + his large scale jutsus.

3. Finally mist is also useless due to chomei's ability to fly & spam the battlefield with bijuudamas.

1. GM isn't a spam move character, otherwise his opponents he faced would never got close to him, so knocking them away isn't helping or killing them with chakra blast, since regenerate. attempting to take advantage will have support on top of them to recover, since Kabuto wins by numbers and power.

2. Obito will be under a genjutsu while seeing only Mist chakra large scale jutsu leaves him or Buijuu's open.

3. Covered all this just now

 

[Draphsin]

I never seen him played around with his enemies, once he revealed who he "truly" was. His battles resulted in long battles due to the troubles he was facing with his enemies..

Untrue, he toyed around [at least a little bit] with every enemy he's faced after revealing himself to be "madara".

1. underestimating someone isn't necessary playing around, he had full intent to defeat her and get Nagato's corpse. He didn't know what she had up her "sleeves" to try and defeat him, and he wasn't cautious enough, which he admitted.

Just because obito intended to defeat her doesn't mean he was being serious. He was playing around, he knew that konan had a plan but he willingly risked his life to see what it was. You wouldn't risk your life or risk taking damage just to see the opponent's strategy if you were being serious. & Lack of caution = playing around, in the ninja world you need to expect the unexpected, when you disregard that you're likely to die, just look at what a lack of caution nearly did to JJ madara.

2. He didn't play around with danzo's dog he realized their strategy combo they made that could take his life and made his own, even playing dirty. He had no choice but to sacrifice his arm, otherwise he can't warp him.

Again, yes he did. Once he realized what torune's ability was he still disregarded it by warping him anyways. Obito could've easily avoided it by touching torune in an area covered in clothes, but no he grabbed his arm. He did it most likely out of the sake of convenience & to save some time, or he just didn't care.

The fact that obito identified torune's ability, & still proceeded to warp him proves that he was essentially playing around.

3. Not sure why you said Naruto and Minato either..

Naruto: He underestimated him up until this point. [

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] This is when obito started to have doubts about naruto, up until then he's been toying with him. The taunting & playful remarks he previously makes during the fight also supports this.

Minato: Obito wanted minato to face him before he warped him [

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]. Plus he delayed his warp & made no big deal out of it even though it resulted in his defeat.

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If obito was serious then he wouldn't have made those mistakes.

Your reasoning for using KM Naruto wasn't best as the chapter explained he was tired and giving out too much energy protecting the SA. You can also see him in that chapter transporting his body. So the actual speed for removing his presence is fast, but the transportation is very visible.

Naruto being tired doesn't mean anything really. Naruto was point blank in fron of obito as shown in my scan. His chakra arm was already activated, & obito didn't have kamui active yet. Obito was able to activate kamui & warp away before naruto could swing his arm. KCM is still fast, how much stamina naruto has doesn't make much difference because he's still one of the fastest shinobi with that cloak activated.

I never said that his warping wasn't visible, merely that it was fast. If he wants to teleport undetected he can use the gedo for distraction, or he can use intangibility for travel.

Overall I still think his Shushin and Kamui need to and has work together.

Not in the example I showed, kamui can hold it's own by itself. Obito's shunshin is on par with or below kakashi's at best, but he's been able to use kamui to evade much faster attacks. Shunshin may be useful in conjunction with intangibility, but as a mode of transportation & for evading rather fast attacks teleporting is better.

1. He doesn't just hide his head he has his summoning warped around him fighting for him at first. They will be protecting him from all sides and strike once they sense his presence.

Obito has many ways to barrage the battlefield with weapons.

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, kunai, & chakra rods all have a rather large radius, plus they're all large tools themselves, it's unlikely that kabuto's snakes will be able to properly evade these barrages.

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Chakra rods are large enough to pepper gyuuki rather quickly.

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& Kunai which are larger than madara's susanoo magatamas.

Not to mention obito can teleport from multiple directions, making for unpredictability.

These snakes were fast enough to scatter away from Sasuke and Itachi, so barrage aim isn't accurate enough to catch all of them, even when Itachi and Sasuke attempt this there were more then 4 outputs of snakes that they saw from the beginning. It will fool the Sharingan as much for Obito. Especially when this isn't only method of keeping distance and gathering natural energy, since he can perform Doton, and Manda II can support him as well.

The snakes managed to escape because removing the hood caught the brothers off guard. Obito will deal with the snakes, he won't be aiming to remove his hood, so he won't be surprised like they were. If kabuto uses snakes for combat then they will be met with a barrage of weapons, & kabuto isn't summoning manda or using doton while he's doing this trick, it turns him into snakes so his hands will be nonexistent.

As for fooling the sharingan, sasuke was still able to land a hit on one of the snakes even with their element of surprise & while escaping. [

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] This is more than enough to prove that the snakes won't be able to avoid all the attacks that come their way.

I could say once Edo is summoned, GM will be roaring and making his intro appearing too. So Kabuto already takes advantage by stripping their will and prepare to attack. Especially when he will have Snake summons on the field for support. Also Edo's can spawn where ever Kabuto wants on the field, as they dont need to be close in GM range. Notice the range he used his other Edo to summon 7 swordsmen[1>2]. There are too many options Kabuto can play without being at a dis advantage.

But that's not going to work, the gedo doesn't need to roar, the edos have to step out of their coffins, the gedo & any summon for that matter has this distinct advantage over edo tensei, they can be summoned instantly while edo takes a bit more time [not a lot but every second counts]. & Lastly, kabuto isn't stripping the edo's will remotely without anko's chakra, he needs to add in talismans otherwise.

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All snakes bar manda II are useless because of summons, & once bijuu are in play it becomes a non-factor as well.

& These two are facing eachother, the gedo clears the immediate area which is all obito needs to warp kabuto away. Kabuto has no info on the gedo mazou's power, so if he does in fact decide to summon his edos away from the battle he will never know how far he needs them to be so they won't be affected. Also if kabuto summons his edos away from the battle then this gives obito the opening he needs to summon his bijuu, & the match is over.

Actually the mist cover much more range, as Edo Zabuza had to fight 1/5 of the SA. So by looking at 1/5[1] of them (spread around the field) that is a good range to cover all the Edo's on the field. So once TBB is being charge Kabuto will already have them commanded to counter or get out of range.

The edos are not escaping the tbb range, that's a fact. [

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] That's the best scan I could dig up of the battlefield & it's nowhere near the size of a bijuudama. & Kabuto isn't going to be able to get them out of the way in time, there's no chance that an explosion that dwarfs mountains is going to be out ran by the edos in the area. Plus they can be spammed, kabuto will be on the ropes as he constantly tries to command his edos to escape along with him [it would be better to just put them on auto pilot, but they still can't out run the explosion].

& On top of all that, having mist up is a huge detriment when obito can rain explosions, it merely shows him where the cluster of enemies is & he'll be likely to hit more if he just aims for it. So mist is generally a bad idea.

GM shockwave range is shorter then Zabuza, since Zabuza won't even be in Buijuu or GM's range, he will just restock, covering the range again that was pushed + Genjutsu Mirages will have him fooled to think he is aiming at the right Edo's.

But it's not, I showed you the battlefield & it's relatively small, the gedo mazou would dwarf it. [

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] You can see how far chouza is from the statue, & the shockwave is large enough to reach the barrier beside him with ease. [

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]

As I said, mirages are useless & actually they can be dealt with rather quickly. Once the clam is dead it's not regenerating, it's a living summon. Therefore shooting one tbb at the obvious smokestack of chakra coming from the clam will be easy.

The only options here is flying, Obito too focus to escape will have Edo's back stabbing him and land Buijuus. For Obito to detriment the mist would mean he will be materialized, which any long range and fire at him inside the mist.

Flying renders mist completely useless though so even if the gedo isn't enough to get rid of the mist [which it probably is], chomei is the fail-safe. Obito doesn't need to be focused, he can just rain bijuudama's down from the top of chomei. He doesn't need to be tangible in order to control the bijuu, he can use chakra chains & still use his ability. & Obito isn't staying inside the mist, he will leave it immediately as it would blind him.

Muu wouldn't be in the in their range anyway has he will play the long range fighter. We also have 2nd Mizukage Joki boi that can Knock one out of range, we also have 3rd Raikage who tied with 8 tails, so in the Mist he can easily Blitz kill one or two, since he was strong and fast enough to take out all 8 tails in one swoop, so a lethal strike anywhere else is over. We have Fourth Kazekage that can rain down Gold Dust suppressing them, making them easier targets.

- Mizukage dies by a bijuudama

- Kazekage dies from a bijuudama

- 3rd raikage dies from bultiple bijuudamas

They simply can't contend, muu has the best shot here because it's much harder to hit a flying opponent with a tbb because it won't explode if shot in the air.

We have Amaterasu, Nagato Paths combo too etc. Kabuto wins by numbers and power. Just because he lacks mountain busters, doesn't mean any of the Edo's jutsu aren't as lethal to kill. Some can even repel TBB's .Then there Edo Madara lol, which I won't even touch.

No he doesn't, his numbers mean nothing when he can't hit obito at all, & with the firepower at his disposal he can hold off any powerful enemies until kabuto gets warped.

- Nagato isn't surviving bijuudamas either, & itachi can but he can be restrained with chakra rods if need be.

- As for edo madara, first of all he still can't touch obito, yeah he would do damage to the bijuu but obito can again restrain him with rods while he's maintaining PS. Then there's always the fact that madara can break free & therefore would be a mutual enemy for both, so he's a double-edged sword.

Kabuto will be controlling them, there will be no confusion

Kabuto can't fully control his edos [like he did to the swordsman/haku] & use his jutsus at the same time without being handicapped. Oro was handicapped in terms of his other jutsu because he was basically controlling the hokage like human puppets. If kabuto decides to go for full control then not only will the edos become significantly weaker but kabuto has to individually control them as well as defend himself.

Also, kabuto needs to add in talismans if he wants to remove their personality & have full control over them. The only reason why he was able to do it during the war was because he had anko's chakra which increased his binding power. So without anko to strengthen his binding power kabuto needs to add in new talismans for all the edos he wants to gain full control over, otherwise they end up with their personality.

If the edos have their personality then they are susceptible to confusion. So without prepared talismans, it's going to happen.

1. GM isn't a spam move character, otherwise his opponents he faced would never got close to him, so knocking them away isn't helping or killing them with chakra blast, since regenerate. attempting to take advantage will have support on top of them to recover, since Kabuto wins by numbers and power.

Kabuto isn't winning by numbers & he sure doesn't have more power than 6 beasts that can spam nukes. & when did I ever say that the gedo statue will spam it's shockwave? Even though there's no proof that it can't use it in succession. But regardless, knocking them away is helping obito & blasting them is also helping him, it takes time for edos to regenerate so once they're killed kabuto is open for a warp. Or if he foolishly decides to crowd around his edos & use them like a shield then they all get blasted at the same time but kabuto would just die.

Sure kabuto has numbers, but his power in this case is lacking, edo madara is the only summon that can contend with 5/6 bijuus + gedo mazou.

2. Obito will be under a genjutsu while seeing only Mist chakra large scale jutsu leaves him or Buijuu's open.

Obito isn't falling for a genjutsu, sharingan can see chakra so he will be able to see the mist/mirage before it sets. Flight gets him out of the area, & tbbs from the sky render this plan useless.

 

[Bronze]

Draphsin and EjBlack are all going out haha

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[Inert Brian]

Yea I was surprised this thread developed as much as it has.