Gates > Genjutsu?

[MightGai]

Just something that came to mind while browsing some threads around here. It's known that physical pain can break someone out of a genjutsu:

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On the other hand, we also know that the eight gates inflict the user pain (so many examples I'm not going to bother list them all here. For quick references check how Lee rips his own muscles in the fight with Gaara and his comment after Gai stops after the first Evening Elephant).

So, taking into account that Tayuya's Genjutsu was strong enough to affect Uchiha, which many claim they are ... resistant? to them:

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and a mere broken finger was enough to snap out of it, would it be safe to assume that from Gate 5th (muscle rip) and above, genjutsu is futile?

 

[Obítō1]

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[MightGai]

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Feel free to post anything to refute that.

 

[rikuxreborn]

The gates are done, i doubt we will ever see 8 gates again, also i dont think the gates > Genjutsu

 

[Tobi98]

Genjutsu is changing the Chakra flow of the brain right? So I wonder if opening the 1st Gate (localized in the brain) would change the Chakra flow to normal hmm

 

[LuckyMan]

Even without the pain from Gates use, genjutsu would be useless because of Genjutsu Dissipation.

 

[The7thHokage]

Genjutsu is changing the Chakra flow of the brain right? So I wonder if opening the 1st Gate (localized in the brain) would change the Chakra flow to normal hmm

This guy has the right answer, but it still remains ambiguous.

 

[MightGai]

The gates are done, i doubt we will ever see 8 gates again, also i dont think the gates > Genjutsu

Why not?

Even without the pain from Gates use, genjutsu would be useless because of Genjutsu Dissipation.

But for dissipation you need someone from outside to disturb your chakra flow, how would that work with gates alone?

 

[Awkward Linguist]

Tsukyoumi > Gates

Shisui's MS Genjutsu > Gates

GG.

 

[LeSauce]

I think it would depend more on if they would be able to open it or not.

Also, not all genjutsu can be undone with pain. Take the one Itachi used on Orochimaru for example.

They would have to know that they're in a genjutsu as well.

 

[rikuxreborn]

I doubt anyone will live trough it again ( if gai survive ) - it got hyped so much now we have seen it, we dont need to see it again, i doubt lee will go 8 gates to have naruto revive his ass also but you never know, but its highly unlikely

 

[LuckyMan]

Why not?



But for dissipation you need someone from outside to disturb your chakra flow, how would that work with gates alone?

No you don't. You stop the flow of your own chakra, then spike it to restart the flow of it back up. This can be done by any competent shinobi. It kicks the users chakra out of your brain by overpowering it with your own.

 

[Bronze]

Incorrect. The fact Itachi, while under KA being in pain affected by White Rage shows that 8th gates don't save the user from Genjutsu.​

 

[RicardoA]

If you're talking about regular genjutsu i'd say yes. Senjutsu enhanced genjutsu or KA are most likely another story though.

 

[MightGai]

Tsukyoumi > Gates

Shisui's MS Genjutsu > Gates

GG.

Pain is instant, so Tsukuyomi isn't any different than a regular genjutsu in this case. For Kotoamatsukami is the same, since pain works regardless one is aware of not of the genjutsu.

I think it would depend more on if they would be able to open it or not.

Also, not all genjutsu can be undone with pain. Take the one Itachi used on Orochimaru for example.

They would have to know that they're in a genjutsu as well.

But all we know is that he was caught in a Genjutsu and then his arm was cut off. We don't know if he was kept in the genjutsu after that.

I doubt anyone will live trough it again ( if gai survive ) - it got hyped so much now we have seen it, we dont need to see it again, i doubt lee will go 8 gates to have naruto revive his ass also but you never know, but its highly unlikely

Not saying that the 8th gate is necessary, just gates that give you some degree of pain. (which pretty much are most of them)

 

[MightGai]

Incorrect. The fact Itachi, while under KA being in pain affected by White Rage shows that 8th gates don't save the user from Genjutsu.​

KA was used to dispel edo tensei's controlling genjutsu, Itachi didn't need KA to actually protect konoha.

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Like he says, Edo Tensei's controlling genjutsu was cancelled, so a continuous KA wasn't needed.

 

[Bronze]

KA was used to dispel edo tensei's controlling genjutsu, Itachi didn't need KA to actually protect konoha.

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Like he says, Edo Tensei's controlling genjutsu was cancelled, so a continuous KA wasn't needed.

No...once KA is used on the victim, it will stay there controlling them forever. That's why Itachi intended to use it on Sasuke.

Itachi is under the influence of KA, in other words, his quest to protect Konoha was to stop Edo Tensie. Since it stays controlling the victim, their chakra flow is disturbed.​

 

[Tobi98]

No...once KA is used on the victim, it will stay there controlling them forever. That's why Itachi intended to use it on Sasuke.

Itachi is under the influence of KA, in other words, his quest to protect Konoha was to stop Edo Tensie. Since it stays controlling the victim, their chakra flow is disturbed.​

But KA is the strongest Genjutsu, you can't really compare with the normal Genjutsus

 

[Bronze]

But KA is the strongest Genjutsu, you can't really compare with the normal Genjutsus

You misunderstood. The principle of KA effecting the brain and chakra flow is the same as any other Genjutsu. Itachi, under the influence of KA was in pain when hearing White Rage. It didn't break the Genjutsu.​

 

[MightGai]

No...once KA is used on the victim, it will stay there controlling them forever. That's why Itachi intended to use it on Sasuke.

Itachi is under the influence of KA, in other words, his quest to protect Konoha was to stop Edo Tensie. Since it stays controlling the victim, their chakra flow is disturbed.​

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Itachi clearly states that KA returned him to "normal", he wouldn't have said that if he's still under the influence of a genjutsu, either Edo Tensei or Kotoamatsukami. Besides, as far as we know is that Shisui's Kotoamatsukami is a genjutsu that lets the user control his enemy without him noticing that, not that it's eternal or whatever.