My opinion on Naruto's greatest downfalls

[UzumakiSO6P]

I love Naruto (or else I wouldn't be on the forums), both the Anime and the Manga, but I can't help but think it could have been a "different" better. This is not an insult to Kishimoto because I lack all the talent he possess, so I couldn't do better. That being said, I have a valid opinion like everyone else.

Naruto's greatest downfall is the change of inspiration from Hunter X Hunter to a Pseudo DBZ, and in this, losing it's Ninja theme.

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Let's start off with some of my opinions on the anime

It's self explanatory to say I preferred Part 1 for a number of reasons (Nostalgia, the Ninja theme, working from nothing, etc). I personally think Naruto and Sasuke should have peaked at Sage Mode and Hebi Sasuke/one of the Mangekyo's abilities (with either only Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, but no Susano).

Favorite Arcs Part 1:
Land of Waves (Loved Sasukes and Naruto's teamwork, and made Kakashi my favorite character)
Chunnin Exams
Sasuke retrieval (mostly just VoTE fight)

Part 2:
First Arc (forgot the name, but it's when Naruto returns and saves Gaara)
3 tails Arc
Sasuke versus Itachi
Pein attacks Konoha

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Things that have degraded Naruto for me

1)Giant Fights: From Susano to Summons to Tailed Beasts, I don't like it that much. It's fine to have them, but not as ordinary jutsu's. It takes away from a fight between Ninjas, who fight with tools like Kunai and swords. To me, The land of waves arc showcased how the ninjas should have fought in the series.

2) Infinite Plot Holes: They're everywhere, with Madara's no-eyed Susano and Minato's sage mode, there's a lot of bullcrap things that are either not explained, or are barely explained.

3)Pseudo DBZ: I love DBZ, but is highly overrated. The Main factor being REPETITION! Here's an example:
The speed in DBZ is suppose to get faster, yet when they show this extremely fast speed in the show, it's all instant! We're just suppose to take their word for it that it's gotten faster, because we obviously can't tell.
In Naruto, when Naruto dodged the Raikage in speed, we thought he about equaled Minato, yet, nearly every show case of Naruto's incredible speed afterwards looked the exact same (pretty much Instant!). Of course Naruto Shippuden does do a better job at this, Dbz is an old Anime.

4) The throwout of themes: Remember when Naruto had to work hard to become something and there's no destiny? Turns out he's Ashura's reincarnation and is Destined to fight Indra's reincarnation (Sasuke). The list goes on.


Sorry I'm going to cut it a bit short because I got a bit bored*


I love Naruto and will watch to the end to see Naruto's final dream come true, but I can't help but feel how great the series could have been

 

[Howling Fox]

Reincarnation does not equal destiny. Kishi laughs in the faces of western plebs who think that

I could be reincarnation of Elvis but I can't play any instrument. Sasukeh and Nardo power is not about past life BS it is about clan ties for eyes and being able to contain Kyuubi.

Sticky this post pls

 

[UzumakiSO6P]

Reincarnation does not equal destiny. Kishi laughs in the faces of western plebs who think that

I could be reincarnation of Elvis but I can't play any instrument. Sasukeh and Nardo power is not about past life BS it is about clan ties for eyes and being able to contain Kyuubi.

Sticky this post pls

I would honestly argue in some cases, Reincarnation and Destiny are linked. All known reincarnations of Ashura and Indra were the strongest of their time. Also, wasn't Naruto destined to be no good and foolish, but eventually would be able to surround him with people to help awaken his true power (like Ashura). There is definitely a small form of destiny linked to this.

 

[Yuse]

i agree with everything you said infact i made a similar thread to this a couple of weeks ago entitled naruto has lost it theme

 

[UzumakiSO6P]

Sticky this post pls

Someone should make a cleaned up version of this thread with less bias and have someone sticky it.
So pretty much just keep the title

i agree with everything you said infact i made a similar thread to this a couple of weeks ago entitled naruto has lost it theme

Us Kakashi fans think alike haha. But anyways I'll check out what you had to say on your thread if I can find it

 

[hixa kuogame]

I would honestly argue in some cases, Reincarnation and Destiny are linked. All known reincarnations of Ashura and Indra were the strongest of their time. Also, wasn't Naruto destined to be no good and foolish, but eventually would be able to surround him with people to help awaken his true power (like Ashura). There is definitely a small form of destiny linked to this.

@bold
No Hashirama wasn't like this. Naruto and Ashura are just similar in this case. Ashura was just naturally inept. Naruto had the kyuubi's restrictive force. Obito, Lee, and Jaraiya were also similar to Ashura yet aren't his reincarnation.
Naruto's life wasn't planned out to be like Ashura's, it just happened that way.

 

[NarutoB]

Infinite plotholes? Bet you couldn't name 10

 

[UzumakiSO6P]

@bold
No Hashirama wasn't like this. Naruto and Ashura are just similar in this case. Ashura was just naturally inept. Naruto had the kyuubi's restrictive force. Naruto's life wasn't planned out to be like Ashura's, it just happened that way.

Hashirama's a slight exception, but shown in a flash back with the other kage, he was shown to be quirky (similar to Naruto). All three have a couple things about them that really string them together. We also don't know everything about Hashirama and Ashura, but from what we do know, the similarities are there.

Infinite plotholes? Bet you couldn't name 10

An exaggeration, but there are plenty more than 10.

 

[NarutoB]

Hashirama's a slight exception, but shown in a flash back with the other kage, he was shown to be quirky (similar to Naruto). All three have a couple things about them that really string them together. We also don't know everything about Hashirama and Ashura, but from what we do know, the similarities are there.



An exaggeration, but there are plenty more than 10.

There really isn't. I don't even see how Minato's SM is a plothole.

 

[Sageflash]

Hashirama's a slight exception, but shown in a flash back with the other kage, he was shown to be quirky (similar to Naruto). All three have a couple things about them that really string them together. We also don't know everything about Hashirama and Ashura, but from what we do know, the similarities are there.

This isn't a fair assessment. Hashirama wasn't true to his word and slew Madara, though he was the reincarnation of Ashura who extolled love and cooperation while Naruto has outright said he won't kill Sasuke. Also differing, Naruto and Sasuke will die if they fight, further separating them from their reincarnations.

They have similar lives to Ashura and Indra, but others did as well. Lee is no good, yet he's only successful because of Gai's tutelage. Itachi was also a lone wolf and a genius with strong eyes, but he's not Indra. Sasuke and Naruto lives have progressed similarly to Ashura and Indra, but not because of who their past lives were. They are going to change and shape the world unlike their predecessors. All of this does not equate to a planned destiny, it equates to actively shaping and making this outcome for themselves, seeing as how we know this path can be and has been strayed from by another reincarnation.

 

[UzumakiSO6P]

This isn't a fair assessment. Hashirama wasn't true to his word and slew Madara, though he was the reincarnation of Ashura who extolled love and cooperation while Naruto has outright said he won't kill Sasuke. Also differing, Naruto and Sasuke will die if they fight, further separating them from their reincarnations.

They have similar lives to Ashura and Indra, but others did as well. Lee is no good, yet he's only successful because of Gai's tutelage. Itachi was also a lone wolf and a genius with strong eyes, but he's not Indra. Sasuke and Naruto lives have progressed similarly to Ashura and Indra, but not because of who their past lives were. They are going to change and shape the world unlike their predecessors. All of this does not equate to a planned destiny, it equates to actively shaping and making this outcome for themselves, seeing as how we know this path can be and has been strayed from by another reincarnation.

Giving you that, the rest of my points stand still. Thank you for arguing it though.

There really isn't. I don't even see how Minato's SM is a plothole.

I would equate it to a plothole, as no one told Narutoo his father has mastered sage mode (just didn't use the clone method). Would you prefer if I used asspulls instead of plotholes?

 

[SkyGodHorus]

I love Naruto (or else I wouldn't be on the forums), both the Anime and the Manga, but I can't help but think it could have been a "different" better. This is not an insult to Kishimoto because I lack all the talent he possess, so I couldn't do better. That being said, I have a valid opinion like everyone else.

Naruto's greatest downfall is the change of inspiration from Hunter X Hunter to a Pseudo DBZ, and in this, losing it's Ninja theme.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's start off with some of my opinions on the anime

It's self explanatory to say I preferred Part 1 for a number of reasons (Nostalgia, the Ninja theme, working from nothing, etc). I personally think Naruto and Sasuke should have peaked at Sage Mode and Hebi Sasuke/one of the Mangekyo's abilities (with either only Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, but no Susano).

Favorite Arcs Part 1:
Land of Waves (Loved Sasukes and Naruto's teamwork, and made Kakashi my favorite character)
Chunnin Exams
Sasuke retrieval (mostly just VoTE fight)

Part 2:
First Arc (forgot the name, but it's when Naruto returns and saves Gaara)
3 tails Arc
Sasuke versus Itachi
Pein attacks Konoha

Well I'm happy to see someone here is an objective critic.

1)Giant Fights: From Susano to Summons to Tailed Beasts, I don't like it that much. It's fine to have them, but not as ordinary jutsu's. It takes away from a fight between Ninjas, who fight with tools like Kunai and swords. To me, The land of waves arc showcased how the ninjas should have fought in the series.

I think Kishimoto almost always had the proper balance for those and I've enjoyed them. They started all the way back in the chuunin arc so I don't see why you'd have issues with them only now.

2) Infinite Plot Holes: They're everywhere, with Madara's no-eyed Susano and Minato's sage mode, there's a lot of bullcrap things that are either not explained, or are barely explained.

Lol I will agree I have elaborated on what I believe are quite a few holes or unexplained devices. Over twenty actually, but some people elaborated on info I missed or had forgotten about them and helped me with a few of them. And I don't consider the ones you've listed here as plot holes because I easily imagined how they are explained based on past events.

"Wireless" susano'o can be explained in my opinion by Madara still possessing his Yin chakra even without his eyes as well as the gidou rods that Pein used to send and receive his chakra. Both of Madara's eyes were in the vicinity at the time as well.

Minato's sage mode is explained because he was Jiraiya's pupil and a toad summoner, implying he likely went to Mount Myaboku and learned senjutsu. He later elaborated that he was poor at it, similar to Jiraiya and that was why it was ineffective and he didn't use it before.

3)Pseudo DBZ: I love DBZ, but is highly overrated. The Main factor being REPETITION! Here's an example:
The speed in DBZ is suppose to get faster, yet when they show this extremely fast speed in the show, it's all instant! We're just suppose to take their word for it that it's gotten faster, because we obviously can't tell.

Several speed feats have been elaborated on including FTG, lightning armor, lightning flicker, senjutsu and bijuu dexerity.

4) The throwout of themes: Remember when Naruto had to work hard to become something and there's no destiny? Turns out he's Ashura's reincarnation and is Destined to fight Indra's reincarnation (Sasuke).

That was foreshadowed for me at the very beginning with Kurama inside of him, his parents and past shrouded in mystery, Sasuke becoming his rival and deutertagonist, the valley of the end where the statues of Hashirama and Madara were and of course, the title of the series lols. And Naruto has worked hard to get to where he is. All of his techniques came from training and perseverance and he hard to harmonize with Kurama to correctly and willingly use his power. Hagoromo stated Ashura started out jut like him with no talent or even chakra and had to work hard to reach Indra's level. At first he needed a whole army. Gai, Lee, Chouji, Shikamaru, Hinata, Obito and so many others worked just as hard to get to where they are.

I love Naruto and will watch to the end to see Naruto's final dream come true, but I can't help but feel how great the series could have been

What would you have done differently? I agree to a degree as I too have elaborated on what I would have liked to have been done differently a few times, such as more development and story involvement with the K11, Akasuki having more antagonists, Orochiamru and his faction surviving through the series, better choreographed fights in the edo tensei arc, etc.