Wow, bravo. Taking off the Naruto fanboy glasses, getting at the root of what the author has been banging over the readers heads, that Naruto is an embodiment of the Sage's Yang, and completely ignoring that and stating that he is both his Yin and Yang. After Naruto himself stated that Sasuke was the other half of Hagoromo's power, you saw straight through it and stated that Naruto is actually the whole of Hagoromo. You saw the Sage himself state that he trusts that Naruto and Sasuke will find peace together, Naruto excitedly accepted this, and you saw the ruse for what it was. This was the work of a truly unbiased reader.
See, you are making a literal analysis of statements of the manga. Hgoromo did divide his power in two, yet Sasuke got a Rinnegan.
The key here is that each of Sasuke and Naruto has his own power before Hagoromo gave them power. Naruto is a blend of many clan that hold significance in the manga.
For example, it is said that if you don't have an uchiha body, you cannot use the Sharingan. Nagato being Uzumaki was able to perfectly use the Rinnegan. Basically, Uzumaki is a clan that has been tied to Rikudo himself in two ways:
(1) The sealing jutsus
(2) Nagato's use of Rinnegan and why Madara chose him.
Now, only people who want to refuse the crude fact will cling to contextual statement. The worst is actually that you guys picked what you wnat. Here is a question:
Why was it important for Gammaru to give a prophecy to Hagoromo?
Si, Gammamru did not talk about Sasuke. He prophecized to Hagoromo, and this has to be important because it suggest that Hagoronmo could not fix a problem. Thus, Naruto will fix it. Actually most reader did not see the true meaning of the chapter named "The Successor".
Basically, it did not say the successors, but the only and sole successor. This is Naruto is actually the successor of Hagoromo - not his reincarnation simply because Naruto will be stronger than Hagoromo was.
See, you are making a literal analysis of statements of the manga. Hgoromo did divide his power in two, yet Sasuke got a Rinnegan.
The key here is that each of Sasuke and Naruto has his own power before Hagoromo gave them power. Naruto is a blend of many clan that hold significance in the manga.
For example, it is said that if you don't have an uchiha body, you cannot use the Sharingan. Nagato being Uzumaki was able to perfectly use the Rinnegan. Basically, Uzumaki is a clan that has been tied to Rikudo himself in two ways:
(1) The sealing jutsus
(2) Nagato's use of Rinnegan and why Madara chose him.
Now, only people who want to refuse the crude fact will cling to contextual statement. The worst is actually that you guys picked what you wnat. Here is a question:
Why was it important for Gammaru to give a prophecy to Hagoromo?
Si, Gammamru did not talk about Sasuke. He prophecized to Hagoromo, and this has to be important because it suggest that Hagoronmo could not fix a problem. Thus, Naruto will fix it. Actually most reader did not see the true meaning of the chapter named "The Successor".
Basically, it did not say the successors, but the only and sole successor. This is Naruto is actually the successor of Hagoromo - not his reincarnation simply because Naruto will be stronger than Hagoromo was.
Nagato was not able to use the Rinnegan perfectly. That's just straight denial, in no way could he utilize Limbo or Sasuke's displacement technique. He couldn't even see through Shadow Clones. Every single one of his powers were consistent with the body, neither Deva, nor Preta, nor Asura, nor Human, nor Naraka were used through the eyes, his power was always transmitted via the body.
Uzumaki have no special relation to the Uchiha, they do not inherit the Sage's eyes, Nagato was simply able to use the Rinnegan by transmitting it's power to the body. After being given the eye by an Uchiha, of course. Naruto isn't gaining Rinnegan.
If I recall, Gamamaru did talk about Sasuke. The young man with power in his eyes that would challenge Naruto? Ringing any bells? The prophecy cannot come full circle unless Naruto is able to gain a mutual understanding with Sasuke. If this does not happen, the cycle will continue. Selectively reading that Naruto will change the world, while ignoring the fact that the Curse of Hatred is the biggest threat to peace within the Shinobi world, and is something that Sasuke must have a hand in ending.
The Sage himself stated that leaving everything to Naruto/Ashura, as his successor, caused everything to go wrong. Put simply, the idea that Naruto is the only one to succeed Hagoromo (In no way referring to strength, by the way) is categorically denied by the Sage himself.
In this thread, I would like to raise a lot of questions about Naruto. These questions may not be obvious to some people, and will also baffle others - the Sasuke fans of course. So, Here, after reading this thread, you will come to a single conclusion - that is Naruto is the current god of the Shinobi, and the era of Rikudo Sennin is over.
I. Why Is Naruto Mysterious?
The mystery of Naruto has an obvious sign that people have been debating over and over since the Kage Summit arc. It started when Tobi said that Naruto has inherited the Senju Will of Fire because there is no intel that Naruto is actually Senju. When it was revealed that the Uzumaki were of the Senju lineage, things got steady, yet why an hybrid Uzumaki like Naruto. Then, now, we know Naruto is Ashura, but also, importantly, even a prophecy was given to the SO6P about Naruto. Well, here is a hint:
(1) Naruto is Uzumaki - a clan soaked in mysteries
(2) Naruto is Senju - I mean he is Senju by himself not because of being Uzumaki - this will be proven
(3) Believe it. It will also be shown that Naruto is Uchiha (don't ask me, I am sure of it).
Basically, what I am saying is that unlike all the other major character such as Madara, Hashirama, Sasuke, Tobirama, etc, who have rigid ties to single clan, Naruto is tied to all the major clan of the series. This is why he is the one who will end the whole cycle.
Note: Ask yourself what is so important about Minato that Kishi is not giving his bloodline. Don't say that other character don't have parent because Minato is not any character. Rather, he is a former Hokage and the father of the main character.
II. Naruto has same bloodline has Rikudo Sennin
In short, I am saying Naruto is the successor of Rikudo Sennin, not because he is Ashura's reincarnate but because he has the same physical and spiritual energy as hagoromo himself. In this point, I will prove to you that current Naruto is not in 9 Biju mode.
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As you can see, if Naruto was using the chakra of the nine bijus, then he wouldn't need to take Shukaku's chakra in that panel because he would already have it.
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In this one, we can see Naruto has crossed eyes. If he were using the chakra of the nine biju, he would not have the crossed eyes because crossed eyes point to Kurama.
Now, you wonder why Naruto has the black balls and the cloak. Well here is the answer:
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As you can see, in this page, Madara is talking about the power that both Naruto and Sasuke obtained. For each one of them, Kishi showed the symbol of that power. For Sasuke, it is the new eye, and for Naruto, it is the marking on his back and the black balls.
This show that the black balls and marking are actually caused by the Senjutsu of Naruto. You may say that this is the power of juubi because all the Jinchuriki of Juubi has it. Well, remember what Juubi is:
Juubi chakra is pure natural energy. In fact, naruto was the only one to sense it due to compatibility with his Senjutsu.
Thus, after obtaining perfect Senjutsu, Naruto's new chakra is the same as Juubi's chakra that is Sage chakra. This is interesting and become even more interesting here:
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As you can see, Naruto has 7 balls rather than 9 balls like JuubiDara and juubito. Why? Here, I have a speculation next.
II. Naruto will become Rikudo Sennin
For now, I will use only tangible fact. In the previous section, I was showing that Naruto's current form his due to his Ashura connection and his Senjutsu. In that from, Naruto has two distinct feats:
(1) he has Ashura's chakra - check on his shoulder to see Ashura's markings (neither Juubito nor JuubiDara has it)
(2) He has Senjutsu chakra marking. Also, if you don't believe this being marking of Rikudo's Senjutsu, read what madara and Obito said when they took Juubi's chakra. basically, they said they have obtained Rikudo's power.
(2a) The 7 balls come with Senjutsu marking
Now, if you remeber Hashirama vs Madara, Hashirama in Senjutsu obtained a marking in his third eye position. That marking is not explained but it is there due to Ashura's power. Now, Naruto will also have a marking on his third eyes on a long term (prediction). However, unlike Hashirama's marking, Naruto will have the one Hagoromo has because Naruto and Hagoromo are the same type of sage.
Just Saying Naruto will have Rinnegan symbol has is Senjutsu Mark.
You can see that Symbol on his claok just as it is on Hagoromo's cloak and forefront.
Now, concerning the 7 balls, there represent the 7 paths of Naruto's Rinnegan. Six normal paths and one path that is Naruto himself - that is the user of Rinnegan. To understand that, read the conversations between Naruto and nagato.
II. Then, What about Sasuke?
Well, everyone saying Naruto and Sasuke are equal, etc. However, just by seeing chapter 674, it can be seen that they are not. Naruto is completely different from Sasuke both in nature, power, and meaning to the shinobi world. Clearly, Sasuke's Rinnegan is cool idea, but it is a nerfed version of Rinnegan. It is similar to those Rinnegan with only one ability shown in movies like blood prison.
In fact, by looking at how Kishi played on the mind of the reader using hype in 674, you can tell he need to do a lot of effort to convince the fanboys for sometimes that Sasuke is on par with Naruto. If Sasuke's Rinnegan was really powerful, Kishi wouldn't need comments and praise from Madara or naruto to show it. Also, the whole chapter title shows that Sasuke's Rinnegan is not the same as Rikudo, and will not have the same abilities.
While I may be hurting some people's feeling, this is based on all the manga so far. Naruto has the combine bloodline of all the descendants of Rikudo, and even maybe his brother. Naruto is the one who has the true six paths that Rikudo had - the Ninshu techs.
What I am saying is that you should not forget this:
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That is, in a few chapter, shit will go down between two shinobi of the same caliber in a deadly battle - Madara vs Naruto.
Another one of these threads.. Nice presentation though. Anyways I have to laugh that you suggest Naruto is an uchiha, and you say Naruto and Sasuke are not equal.. They have always been equal and always will be, it's not up to you
Nope, I can't find it in my phone but somebody posted a scan of 1 rod returning to the Orb state. The staffs are made from two orbs. He can manipulate them to any shape he wants.
UPDATE
Notice the rod shaking in the lower right panel of this page (12/674)
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Now notice the 'Pop' sound on the top near the ball in this page (13/674)
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The rod just returned to the Orb state as Naruto had no use for it for the time being.
Yeah, you are right. That part of my analysis was not correct. However, I think the balck balls/rod are still the result of Senjutsu, not Juubi. In fact, this make sense as Juubi's chakra is the same as natural energy. Thus, since naruto has obtained perfect Senjutsus, he has access to same chakra as juubi. My point is that Naruto is not using the chakra of the Biju inside him .
I read this all, and even I, a Sasuke fan, agree - Naruto seems like the culmination of shinobi, with a lineage shrouded in mystery.
There are some things I'd like to here your opinion on, OP:
Why exactly was Hashirama's Sage Mode, and his abilities period, so different from the abilities of his predecessors - Hagaromo and Ashura? To our knowledge, neither Hagoromo nor Ashura possessed Mokuton. In my opinion, Hashirama was the Juubi incarnate, as his abilities mimicked those of the God Tree.
In your opinion, what is Orochimaru's relevance in all of this?
No, he wont be the next sage, that theory was murdered when he turned out to be Ashura.
The Uzumaki clan are only "Soaked in Mysteries" because of people trying to turn naruto into the sage.
I like it but there's a few things you're wrong on. I don't think the uzumaki descended from the senju clan, They most likely cam from the sages bro. another thing is, i doubt naruto has any blood ties with the uchiha but hey who knows. Naruto will surpass the sage maybe not in power but in ideals...
As soon as I saw it being suggested that Naruto being an Uchiha, I laughed pretty hard. Did you not see Naruto being born to Kushina? Or do you think she somehow cheated? You don't need to be related to Hagoromo to have been reincarnated into.
As soon as I saw it being suggested that Naruto being an Uchiha, I laughed pretty hard. Did you not see Naruto being born to Kushina? Or do you think she somehow cheated? You don't need to be related to Hagoromo to have been reincarnated into.
What you and a lot of other people are missing in this post is that he isn't saying "naruto is an uchiha" it's naruto has the combined bloodlines of all shinobi. i.e. Kaguya-->SO6P/Brother--> Senju/Uchiha/Hyuga/Uzamaki-->all off shoots from these (we can be talking about millennia of bloodline shifting and it becoming incredibly diluted into naruto preventing any sort of dojuitsu but still present, kind of like how most people can trace their lineage back to the same places) We still have zero clue what clan minato came from so it could be anything.
I agree with everything you said. I think people need to realize the bond that Kishi has made between Sasuke and Naruto. They ARE the end of this all and as the Sage ended up seeing through error, that true peace comes through EQUALITY! Whether people like it or not, they ARE equal now and it's supposed to be this way. We see what inequality lead to, with the Sage's sons. He wouldn't make the same freaking mistake twice. That'd ruin the whole purpose.
Yeah, you are right. That part of my analysis was not correct. However, I think the balck balls/rod are still the result of Senjutsu, not Juubi. In fact, this make sense as Juubi's chakra is the same as natural energy. Thus, since naruto has obtained perfect Senjutsus, he has access to same chakra as juubi. My point is that Naruto is not using the chakra of the Biju inside him .
I agree on that. The black orbs/rods are basically Nature Energy as Juubi is also a being of Nature Energy. If the bijuu were combined (like Madara/Obitos case) there would be no cooperation jutsus like Lava Rasenshuriken or Magnet Rasengan. I know they are due to the friendship which wasn't present in Obito/Madara cases but it is also possible because each Bijuu is a separate entity inside Naruto. Obito/Madara obtained the black balls as result of Nature Energy too. Also, Naruto has Perfect Bijuu Sage Mode (PBSM) and not just Perfect Sage Mode this is shown by his eyes without the highlights.
It's just that you use this fact incorrectly in your theory. Also, as some others pointed out you use a lot of fanfic and incorrect assumptions/facts. Just because Minato's lineage is shrouded in mystery is not enough to conclud that Naruto is an Uchiha because Minato may have a hidden Uchiha Lineage.
Ditto. And I only see 6 plus the sticks, which are hypothesized to be two more shaped into rods, so 8 total on these panels, but 9mtotal previously. I also don't get where you say Naruto needed suckske chakra. It was Shukaku chakra he got.
A lot of work. Fundamental premise could be close, but we will have to see as Kishi reveals more in following chapters.
I read this all, and even I, a Sasuke fan, agree - Naruto seems like the culmination of shinobi, with a lineage shrouded in mystery.
There are some things I'd like to here your opinion on, OP:
Why exactly was Hashirama's Sage Mode, and his abilities period, so different from the abilities of his predecessors - Hagaromo and Ashura? To our knowledge, neither Hagoromo nor Ashura possessed Mokuton. In my opinion, Hashirama was the Juubi incarnate, as his abilities mimicked those of the God Tree.
In your opinion, what is Orochimaru's relevance in all of this?
As far as orochimaru goes, Kishi has done things that destroy every possibility of theory related to him. That is, by deciding to make Orochimaru some kind of unstated mentor to Sasuke, Kishi killed the role of Oro as a character on his own. However, if we go by the nature of a snake - that is a cunning being - we could say that Oro his still hiding something. Then, in my early theories, I thought that while there is hagoromo has the main good legend, there is someone connected to the snakes who is also the main bad legend.
This theory can be supported by the tomoes in the Sharingan, the fact that uchiha is said to be cursed, and how Orochimaru's curse seal has also the same symbol as the base Sharingan. According to many legend, a woman was tricked by a snake so that the snake could steal her power. It could happen that Orochimaru, is a being who as been after the power of the children of Kaguya since the beginning. If you revisit the fight between Oro and Sasuke during orochimaru's attempt to take his body, Sasuke saw orochimaru's identity. Simply put, orochimaru is the white snake itself.
Now that we know that Hagoromo is connected to the toads, it may appears that his rival was connected to the snakes - the second major sage mode whose power according to Kabuto is the closest to Rikudo. Interestingly, Sasuke may be taking the route to that power.
On hashirama, I think we cannot say he is different from hagoromo, because he had half of Hagoromo's power. The problem here is that we only know a glance of Ashura and Hagoromo unlike Indra whose power has been covered by many Uchiha. My opinion is that we have to wait for Naruto to showcase his Ashura's connection.
