[VS] Hebi Sasuke vs. SM Naruto

Apêx1

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not having clones at the mount works on Nardos favor, cause instead of fighting him with a couple SM clones, he'd gang him with more SM clones and end the fight faster.

chidori nagashi... you realise not all clones need to be hugging Saske!?!? and once he uses it to paralize 1 on 2 clones he leaves himself open for an attack...

I don't see how Hebi Saske survives a SM clones gang, or a FRS.
IMO MS Saske beats SM Nardo, but SM Nardo is too much for Hebi Saske, their MS and SM versions are on another level, simple.

At the mount? You mean Mt. Myokubo or 'amount'? Confused by how you write. Anyways, Naruto would have 3 SM clones and that's it. Saying he somehow has more SM clones is confusing, clarify.

Proof of him being vulnerable after it.

Hebi Sasuke is only getting attacked by SM Naruto and his 3 SM clones. Call it what you will, 2 get shattered by Chidori Nagashi, leaving 1 and Naruto. There's not much difficulty required surviving this.

FRS build up is seen with Sharingan. It is anticipated and dodged with body flicker.
True if there are no restrictions. But this scenario Sasuke wins more times than not.

Edit: Kyuubi breaking Naruto out of genjutsu is allowed now. Sasuke loses.
 

Sennin of Logic

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Ugh. People underrate Naruto's Sage mode if they think Naruto's having trouble with Hebi Sasuke of all opponents.

People overrated Sasuke's genjutsu feats. Didn't he only use it against Bee.


For some stupid reason, people think Naruto's obligated to look in Sasuke's eyes despite being a high-class sensor. Sasuke used it against Deidera, but he's no Itachi. What's worse about Bee is that he was using the mangekyo sharingan. With senjutsu enhancement, Naruto's break out of 3T sharingan genjutsu pretty easily I'd say.


Incorrect, he only wins without restrictions.

Naruto making clones won't necessarily be the difference in who wins. Sasuke still has the sharingan and still is much quicker. Naruto only has an edge in physical strength, rest goes to Naruto. More so, Naruto would have to expend senjutsu chakra in order to make his clones enter SM as well. Meaning only a small amount can be made without wasting much senjutsu chakra. Furthermore, Naruto needs to use the scroll to un-summon his clones, which is doubtable since Sasuke won't give him such a chance.

Sasuke uses chirdori nagashi and kills every clone around him. Sasuke has a sword covered with raiton, meaning he will still beat Naruto in CQC no matter what. Naruto will never be in range to hit Sasuke despite range increase from SM, whereas Sasuke can either stay in his range or use his sharingan to predict any upcoming chakra usage. Snakes bind Naruto as well [ ]. Once he's the last one/senjutsu runs out Sasuke proceeds to genjutsu. I have not even factored in C2, which will literally stomp Naruto.
Either way, Sasuke's intelligence, Sharingan, Kit, and speed will give him a clear edge in this fight.



Oh you've got to be joking!


First off, Sasuke's not faster period. Naruto's a true sage, while Sasuke merely has the curse mark, a fake SM, meaning, it almost certainly enhances less.


Let me show you 2 ways that shows Sasuke has absolutely no speed advantage.


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Pain was fast enough to dodge lightning blade not once, but twice. Kakashi's speed score equals Sasuke's, and his taijutsu's better BTW. Despite this, base Naruto was completely capable of defending himself in CQB against Pain.

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So you know what Naruto's capable of in SM. He also has frog kumite, which is not visible to even the rinnegna which is >sharingan.

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Naruto also has a speed feat.

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He A. Had to intercept a human rocket in order to protect Tsunade, who was closer to Asura path than Naruto B. did it so fast that he couldn't react despite shared vision. Meaning it was definitely too fast to even react.


The idea that Sasuke holds a candle to Naruto in CQB is laughable at best. The best part is, ransengan and ransenshuriken weren't even factored in, and they'd one-shot Sasuke CM or not.


Cidori senbon..... really? SM Naruto doges easily.
 

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Ugh. People underrate Naruto's Sage mode if they think Naruto's having trouble with Hebi Sasuke of all opponents.

Seriously. I didn't think some people would underestimate it that much.

For some stupid reason, people think Naruto's obligated to look in Sasuke's eyes despite being a high-class sensor. Sasuke used it against Deidera, but he's no Itachi. What's worse about Bee is that he was using the mangekyo sharingan. With senjutsu enhancement, Naruto's break out of 3T sharingan genjutsu pretty easily I'd say.
I agree. His feat of taking out one of the paths in the dark and the fact that he mastered his SM mode better than Jiraiya, who was trying to teach him how to counter genjutsu, says enough about how much he improved.
 

Apêx1

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Ugh. People underrate Naruto's Sage mode if they think Naruto's having trouble with Hebi Sasuke of all opponents.




For some stupid reason, people think Naruto's obligated to look in Sasuke's eyes despite being a high-class sensor. Sasuke used it against Deidera, but he's no Itachi. What's worse about Bee is that he was using the mangekyo sharingan. With senjutsu enhancement, Naruto's break out of 3T sharingan genjutsu pretty easily I'd say.






Oh you've got to be joking!


First off, Sasuke's not faster period. Naruto's a true sage, while Sasuke merely has the curse mark, a fake SM, meaning, it almost certainly enhances less.


Let me show you 2 ways that shows Sasuke has absolutely no speed advantage.


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Pain was fast enough to dodge lightning blade not once, but twice. Kakashi's speed score equals Sasuke's, and his taijutsu's better BTW. Despite this, base Naruto was completely capable of defending himself in CQB against Pain.

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So you know what Naruto's capable of in SM. He also has frog kumite, which is not visible to even the rinnegna which is >sharingan.

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Naruto also has a speed feat.

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He A. Had to intercept a human rocket in order to protect Tsunade, who was closer to Asura path than Naruto B. did it so fast that he couldn't react despite shared vision. Meaning it was definitely too fast to even react.


The idea that Sasuke holds a candle to Naruto in CQB is laughable at best. The best part is, ransengan and ransenshuriken weren't even factored in, and they'd one-shot Sasuke CM or not.


Cidori senbon..... really? SM Naruto doges easily.

What is this kid even saying...
You clearly ignorant after reading your post. He has to look at Naruto, he's no Gai. Looking away will severely restrict his ability to fight normally against someone who already has a dojutsu. Bee broke out of it? More like Hachibi broke out of it for him. Perfect jin's break out of genjutsu for you. Senjutsu isn't helping him get out of a sharingan meant for battle. Itachi was toying with him, Sasuke is fighting with intent to kill.

Sasuke's faster. SM Naruto has 1 half assed speed feat. Sasuke has crazy speed feats. For one, he kept up the speed of Itachi. How fast is Itachi? Well lets put this into perspective. Bee is outclassed in speed by Itachi [ ] Naruto and Bee swing, while Sasuke is back to where Nagato is. Note they are in the same position as when they attacked [ ]. Do note he's blitzed a SM user [ ]. Sasuke was on par with Itachi's speed in their fight, so it is safe to assume that he's around KCM speed. Sasuke has proven his speed numerous times, including the Deidara fight [ ], where even Deidara praised him for escaping such large AOE attacks. Kakashi's speed isn't Sasuke level at all. Sasuke was half dead, half blind, and still was able to keep up with Naruto and Kakashi with little effort. Fully rested Sasuke destroys Kakashi any day. Saying Naruto is faster from one panel to another, when he anticipated the attack long before anyone due to his sensing is ludicrous.

You showed a panel of Frog Kumite. Now look at it again. Naruto had to have his arm brush past Pain's head to strike. Now looka t the picture again and imagine Sasuke's Kusanagi sword. Look at the range difference. Now look at it again with Sasuke increasing the range as much as he wants. How exactly will Naruto come CQC when 1 mistake ends him? Naruto isn't closing the distance, simple as that. Oh, Rinnegan>Sharingan overall, true. In taijutsu I would take a sharingan any day. Rinnegan has no pre-cognition. Sharingan does. Now lets factor in the 'unexpected' as well. Sasuke's snakes will be too much to handle given Naruto's intelligence levels (not basing). Sasuke stopped Suigetsu and Juugo (on a rampage) with these Snakes using minimal effort [ ].

Kenjutsu easily outclasses and counters Frog Kata. Frog Kata can be seen as a direct counter to Rinnnegan, while the direct counter to Frog Kata is keeping the user at bay, and that's exactly what Sasuke's Kusanagi sword can do. The best part is, FRS is a non factor since Sasuke can sense it and dodge with Body flicker. If you believe he doesn't have the speed to do such, then he can always use an alternative such as this [ ] to escape. The other best part is that Sasuke does this the second he sees Naruto attempt a Rasengan [ ]-->[ ]. Factor the binding with any chidori variant and this is done. Factor the snakes with their poison and the match is done.

Chidori senbon? When did I even say that. Although it could be quite useful incase Naruto decides to spam non-SM clones. Just remember, SM clone attack (which might I add shits on Senjutsu reserves) is countered by this [ ].
 
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Sennin of Logic

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What is this kid even saying...
You clearly ignorant after reading your post. He has to look at Naruto, he's no Gai. Looking away will severely restrict his ability to fight normally against someone who already has a dojutsu. Bee broke out of it? More like Hachibi broke out of it for him. Perfect jin's break out of genjutsu for you. Senjutsu isn't helping him get out of a sharingan meant for battle. Itachi was toying with him, Sasuke is fighting with intent to kill.

Sasuke's faster. SM Naruto has 1 half assed speed feat. Sasuke has crazy speed feats. For one, he kept up the speed of Itachi. How fast is Itachi? Well lets put this into perspective. Bee is outclassed in speed by Itachi [ ] Naruto and Bee swing, while Sasuke is back to where Nagato is. Note they are in the same position as when they attacked [ ]. Do note he's blitzed a SM user [ ]. Sasuke was on par with Itachi's speed in their fight, so it is safe to assume that he's around KCM speed. Sasuke has proven his speed numerous times, including the Deidara fight [ ], where even Deidara praised him for escaping such large AOE attacks. Kakashi's speed isn't Sasuke level at all. Sasuke was half dead, half blind, and still was able to keep up with Naruto and Kakashi with little effort. Fully rested Sasuke destroys Kakashi any day. Saying Naruto is faster from one panel to another, when he anticipated the attack long before anyone due to his sensing is ludicrous.

You showed a panel of Frog Kumite. Now look at it again. Naruto had to have his arm brush past Pain's head to strike. Now looka t the picture again and imagine Sasuke's Kusanagi sword. Look at the range difference. Now look at it again with Sasuke increasing the range as much as he wants. How exactly will Naruto come CQC when 1 mistake ends him? Naruto isn't closing the distance, simple as that. Oh, Rinnegan>Sharingan overall, true. In taijutsu I would take a sharingan any day. Rinnegan has no pre-cognition. Sharingan does. Now lets factor in the 'unexpected' as well. Sasuke's snakes will be too much to handle given Naruto's intelligence levels (not basing). Sasuke stopped Suigetsu and Juugo (on a rampage) with these Snakes using minimal effort [ ].

Kenjutsu easily outclasses and counters Frog Kata. Frog Kata can be seen as a direct counter to Rinnnegan, while the direct counter to Frog Kata is keeping the user at bay, and that's exactly what Sasuke's Kusanagi sword can do. The best part is, FRS is a non factor since Sasuke can sense it and dodge with Body flicker. If you believe he doesn't have the speed to do such, then he can always use an alternative such as this [ ] to escape. The other best part is that Sasuke does this the second he sees Naruto attempt a Rasengan [ ]-->[ ]. Factor the binding with any chidori variant and this is done. Factor the snakes with their poison and the match is done.

Chidori senbon? When did I even say that. Although it could be quite useful incase Naruto decides to spam non-SM clones. Just remember, SM clone attack (which might I add shits on Senjutsu reserves) is countered by this [ ].



You have to be trolling. There's just, no way someone could be this biased against reality.


I didn't even mention about Bee breaking genjutsu. Just said that one of the few genjutsu feats Sasuke has had was with MS, and Hebi Sasuke does not have MS. His MS genjutsu was already described as bad, what makes you think his 3T is actually going to do crap to Naruto with enhanced genjutsu resistance?


Let's see, a summary of this section of your post is denial...denial.....more denial...... followed by denial and bullcrap.


Fully retested Sasuke gets crapped on by Kakashi in taijutsu lol. Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu. Kakashi, at the same time period, has a 4.5 in taijutsu. He's a full number ahead! You know what Itachi's taijutsu score is? 4.5!


As for your Itachi argument..... KCM Naruto couldn't control his speed, so that's hardly a big accomplishment to be able to fight on par with him in taijutsu. In fact, you just made the ludicrous statment that Sasuke equals KCM speed lol! Yeah, you clearly aren't biased to the max.


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Why, is this Kakshi's clone fighting on par with Itachi? Yes, yes it is. Sorry to break it to you, but SM Naruto craps on Sasuke in speed. As for Kabuto, I love the fact that you ignore the fact he was fooled by a clone decoy. Naruto was able to get the drop on Kakuzu, who was much faster than him using a similar method, but that's not blitzing clearly.


Your desperation becomes all the more apparent when you attempt to call it a half-a**ed feat. Naruto possibly sensing Pain about to attack has no factor whatsoever to my argument. It's a desperation attempting to find a little something hoping it's enough to refute reality. There's no denying it was an incredible speed feat.


As I've said, Pain has shared vision. Therefore, regardless of anything you say, Naruto was within his sight. Yet, Naruto blitzed Asura Path before he could react. Meaning he traveled at a speed so fast, that not even seeing it come from a distance away, could he react. Meaning Naruto had to have traveled that distance in an instant so fast that not even a dojutsu could properly keep track of him. Meanwhile, Diedera, without a special dojutsu, was perfectly capable of seeing and reacting to Sasuke's speed.


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What's worse is that Diedera has far less space to react with than Pain did, meaning SM Naruto's speed craps on Hebi Sasuke's without curse mark, and is likely>=his CM2 speed.


The point is that dojutsu can't detect natural energy, meaning precog is absolutely useless since he can redirect his strikes any direction he wants. As for the sword, well he has 3 methods of ownage.


1.

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2. Using frog kumite to extend his range, and thus, repel his sword without even touching it.

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3.
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Snakes stopped Juugo? That's nice, but A. Juugo and Suigetsu were focused on fighting each other, not Sasuke, meaning it was a sneak attack completely unexpected. and B. Neither is anywhere close to Naruto.


I've already explained frog kumite>kenjutsu. Sasuke isn't dodging ransenshuriken. You wish he could, but he can't. Seeing chakra with a dojutsu does not help against this.

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Nor this.

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Oh, and let's not forget Naruto can just close the distance where Sasuke can't possibly dodge. Sages already have feats of easily dodging chidori variants.


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Heck, all Naruto has to do is use sage art ransengans to plow through it.



Sage Mode Naruto craps on Hebi Sasuke period.

Obviously you're either a troll or too biased to be reasoned with, but I'm making it clear to others that your points are completely invalid.
 

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sasuke wins this....hebi sasuke is too fast for sm naruto and eventually kirin strikes
 

Apêx1

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You have to be trolling. There's just, no way someone could be this biased against reality.


I didn't even mention about Bee breaking genjutsu. Just said that one of the few genjutsu feats Sasuke has had was with MS, and Hebi Sasuke does not have MS. His MS genjutsu was already described as bad, what makes you think his 3T is actually going to do crap to Naruto with enhanced genjutsu resistance?


Let's see, a summary of this section of your post is denial...denial.....more denial...... followed by denial and bullcrap.


Fully retested Sasuke gets crapped on by Kakashi in taijutsu lol. Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu. Kakashi, at the same time period, has a 4.5 in taijutsu. He's a full number ahead! You know what Itachi's taijutsu score is? 4.5!


As for your Itachi argument..... KCM Naruto couldn't control his speed, so that's hardly a big accomplishment to be able to fight on par with him in taijutsu. In fact, you just made the ludicrous statment that Sasuke equals KCM speed lol! Yeah, you clearly aren't biased to the max.


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Why, is this Kakshi's clone fighting on par with Itachi? Yes, yes it is. Sorry to break it to you, but SM Naruto craps on Sasuke in speed. As for Kabuto, I love the fact that you ignore the fact he was fooled by a clone decoy. Naruto was able to get the drop on Kakuzu, who was much faster than him using a similar method, but that's not blitzing clearly.


Your desperation becomes all the more apparent when you attempt to call it a half-a**ed feat. Naruto possibly sensing Pain about to attack has no factor whatsoever to my argument. It's a desperation attempting to find a little something hoping it's enough to refute reality. There's no denying it was an incredible speed feat.


As I've said, Pain has shared vision. Therefore, regardless of anything you say, Naruto was within his sight. Yet, Naruto blitzed Asura Path before he could react. Meaning he traveled at a speed so fast, that not even seeing it come from a distance away, could he react. Meaning Naruto had to have traveled that distance in an instant so fast that not even a dojutsu could properly keep track of him. Meanwhile, Diedera, without a special dojutsu, was perfectly capable of seeing and reacting to Sasuke's speed.


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What's worse is that Diedera has far less space to react with than Pain did, meaning SM Naruto's speed craps on Hebi Sasuke's without curse mark, and is likely>=his CM2 speed.


The point is that dojutsu can't detect natural energy, meaning precog is absolutely useless since he can redirect his strikes any direction he wants. As for the sword, well he has 3 methods of ownage.


1.

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2. Using frog kumite to extend his range, and thus, repel his sword without even touching it.

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3.
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Snakes stopped Juugo? That's nice, but A. Juugo and Suigetsu were focused on fighting each other, not Sasuke, meaning it was a sneak attack completely unexpected. and B. Neither is anywhere close to Naruto.


I've already explained frog kumite>kenjutsu. Sasuke isn't dodging ransenshuriken. You wish he could, but he can't. Seeing chakra with a dojutsu does not help against this.

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Nor this.

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Oh, and let's not forget Naruto can just close the distance where Sasuke can't possibly dodge. Sages already have feats of easily dodging chidori variants.


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Heck, all Naruto has to do is use sage art ransengans to plow through it.



Sage Mode Naruto craps on Hebi Sasuke period.

Obviously you're either a troll or too biased to be reasoned with, but I'm making it clear to others that your points are completely invalid.

Biased against reality? lol?
Show me evidence of MS improving non-MS techniques? It is completely ignorant to believe that MS improves 3T sharingan genjutsu, unless of course, you have proof. His MS genjutsu was describes as bad? Proof? Danzo said it isn't as good as his brothers because he doesn't manipulate time, yet Danzo lost the match due to Genjutsu. Deidara was put into genjutsu. Bee was awakened by the Hachibi. Itachi and Sasuke went into an all out genjutsu battle. Saying Sasuke's genjutsu isn't good is going to require some evidence on your part, considering the only thing he can't do is manipulate time, which he doesn't even need.

Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu? Incorrect, further proof for your retardation. 3rd databook was made september 2008. That's the time we saw Kakashi vs Itachi. That's about 5 month prior to seeing Hebi Sasuke fight. The assumptions are strong in your arguments. More so, 3.5 is base Taijutsu, enhance that with C2 and he's on another level, even though 3.5 is not his Hebi form.

This kid.. Itachi said they don't need to fight to Kisame several times, and he was only here to bring the Kyuubi's jinchuriki. Unless you can show me any blitzes in that fight then you have no argument in this one. Oh, and how can SM Naruto make a comparison with Kakashi when they have never fought. He only fought Pain and had no speed feats. Once again, show me some speed feats of SM Naruto, instead of assuming he is fast. Base Naruto speed is laughable, SM Naruto isn't much different unless you have several scans portraying his speed. Kakuzu was fighting several people at once. More so, he was outsmarted by Naruto, not blitzed. Blitzing is giving your opponent no time to think about what occurred, Kakuzu had developed a plan by then, but a bad one. Anyways, Sasuuke has fought big feat fighters like Deidara and Itachi. Naruto fought decent feat Kakuzu who never was effected by Naruto's speed and Pain who only had Ashura shut down due to speed, but again, not a blitz since Ashura wasn't even going for Naruto.

Desperation attempt? lol. Naruto in the right panel had already noticed while Tsunade was thinking about being a Hokage [ ]. Naruto was capable to stop him catching Ashura off guard, while tsunade was being caught off guard. On the other hand, show me Ashura's speed feats. You are simply assuming Ashura is some fast Path, when he has no feats of such speed. Denying Naruto catching off guard is laughable, he would have to stop the rockets in his feet, putting him in a bad situation either way. However, I am not denying this as a speed feat entirely, I am simply saying Ashura has no speed feats, and Naruto noticed prior to anyone else, meaning he is the only one who had a chance to stop him. Rinnegan has no pre-cog lmao. Rinnegan does not aid in taijutsu, so saying the dojutsu had any effect is fallacious. The path reacted to Naruto many times, so Naruto's speed is clearly not as special you think it is.

Now Sasuke being dodged by one of the fasted shinobi in 'Naruto' is something bad lmao. Deidara has speed feats beyond most people. Paths have.. no speed feats (unless you can prove they do have some). This kid.

Oh my, lmaoooooo. This must be the funniest thing I just read up to now. "All three methods work" More like all three methods kill Naruto.
1. Naruto isn't touching a raiton enhanced kusanagi sword.
2. Naruto isn't getting close enought o utilize his increased range, as I said in my last post. Sword with raiton and increasable range>5 cm increased range of SM.
3. That will not stop by getting caught, since it's raiton enhanced and though metal effortlessly. Nice try though, but Naruto has been chopped into two.

Snakes stopped both at the end of the day. Whether he was in the fight or not, they are considered extremely intelligent snakes and they use poison as well. DB says the most skilled shinobi's fail to escape these snakes. Naruto being an exception will require an argument on your side. Being weaker than Naruto won't matter, because the snakes restrained them with no difficulty, so even after Naruto has began to escape, he is guaranteed to get bitten by poison and lose.

Where was that explanation, I missed it. Raiton enhanced sword isn't being touched, unless you can prove Naruto is somehow resistant to it (which you can't since your 'proof' usually acts against you).

Again, I showed you the snake scan, where he used snakes to latch on something and rapidly traveled to that location. Anyways, Sharingan can sense build up of chakra. Sasuke is intelligent. Sasuke uses the snakes to escape, or uses to make a quick escape. Either way, Sasuke will escape. Oh, and Sasuke can fly away incase you didn't know [ ][ ][ ]. Saying he cannot dodge FRS is laughable.
Sage art rasengans to plow through? Nope. If he attempts to close the distance, Sasuke uses his swords increased range and incase Naruto dodges, giving him the victory. Sasuke can also do this [ ]-->[ ]. If he willed, he could create this as well when Naruto is 'plowing through with rasengans (wasting senjutsu chakra) [ ].

Obviously, you don't know the difference in power, Sasuke will win non-summoning SM Naruto any day. Making it clear to others? Lel, you're clearly an idiot if you believe any of your arguments are decent let alone good. Oh, and dat ABC logic...
 
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lucario14

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I think people mistake speed for anticipation and reaction. This isn't a race it's a fight. Sasuke can see naruto's movements before it happens, he could even dodge the raikage's attack and strike.

He still has oro's powers I'm assuming so he can send snakes out of his sleeves and use the body replacement jutsu to counter a sage art big balled rasengan barrage.

And of course there's kirin.

I think we are overestimating sm naruto's speed. In this form he is much slower than killer b. Not sure why you using kabuto's snake sage to show how fast naruto is coz snake sage form is clearly faster than toad sage.
 

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naruto low diff
 

Latios

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I think people mistake speed for anticipation and reaction. This isn't a race it's a fight. Sasuke can see naruto's movements before it happens, he could even dodge the raikage's attack and strike.

He still has oro's powers I'm assuming so he can send snakes out of his sleeves and use the body replacement jutsu to counter a sage art big balled rasengan barrage.

And of course there's kirin.

I think we are overestimating sm naruto's speed. In this form he is much slower than killer b. Not sure why you using kabuto's snake sage to show how fast naruto is coz snake sage form is clearly faster than toad sage.
Pretty sure he got mauled by the Raikage

He can only do Oral Rebirth once which isn't cutting it considering that Naruto can easily do it again. Sasuke has a small ass chakra pool

Kirin isn't getting launched by Sasuke alone, it was prepped by Itachi's Amaterasu

SM is extremely fast, why are you doubting it?
 

Sennin of Logic

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I think people mistake speed for anticipation and reaction. This isn't a race it's a fight. Sasuke can see naruto's movements before it happens, he could even dodge the raikage's attack and strike.

He still has oro's powers I'm assuming so he can send snakes out of his sleeves and use the body replacement jutsu to counter a sage art big balled rasengan barrage.

And of course there's kirin.

I think we are overestimating sm naruto's speed. In this form he is much slower than killer b. Not sure why you using kabuto's snake sage to show how fast naruto is coz snake sage form is clearly faster than toad sage.



Precog doesn't matter. He can see Naruto coming from a mile away, but he won't be able to stop Naruto from closing the distance since he's faster. It doesn't matter in CQB because of frog kumite, which is invisible to dojutsu, meaning dodging Naruto's strikes is impossible. Sasuke could arguably dodge his body but the natural energy extending his range will hit him regardless.



Those things did huge damage to massive summons, no snakes are tanking it.


Kirin took all of his chakra to form even with using Itachi's amaterasu. If he somehow managed to set up the conditions, he'll leave him wide open for Naruto to stomp.


Slower than killer B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And what's supporting this assumption is........


Snake sage mode being faster than toad sage mode??!! Supporting this statement is........


Never once were any of these stated in the manga. Senjutsu works like this, you balance natural energy with chakra. The only difference actually shown between sage modes is their sag arts. Naruto had a 3.5 in speed, so did Kabuto. So it makes sense that Naruto's SM speed equals Kabuto's SM speed.


SM Naruto is underrated, not overrated. The people in this thread makes it pitifully clear they forget just what it's capable of. SM Naruto had the crazy speed feat of blitzing Pain.


Biased against reality? lol?
Show me evidence of MS improving non-MS techniques? It is completely ignorant to believe that MS improves 3T sharingan genjutsu, unless of course, you have proof. His MS genjutsu was describes as bad? Proof? Danzo said it isn't as good as his brothers because he doesn't manipulate time, yet Danzo lost the match due to Genjutsu. Deidara was put into genjutsu. Bee was awakened by the Hachibi. Itachi and Sasuke went into an all out genjutsu battle. Saying Sasuke's genjutsu isn't good is going to require some evidence on your part, considering the only thing he can't do is manipulate time, which he doesn't even need.

Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu? Incorrect, further proof for your retardation. 3rd databook was made september 2008. That's the time we saw Kakashi vs Itachi. That's about 5 month prior to seeing Hebi Sasuke fight. The assumptions are strong in your arguments. More so, 3.5 is base Taijutsu, enhance that with C2 and he's on another level, even though 3.5 is not his Hebi form.

This kid.. Itachi said they don't need to fight to Kisame several times, and he was only here to bring the Kyuubi's jinchuriki. Unless you can show me any blitzes in that fight then you have no argument in this one. Oh, and how can SM Naruto make a comparison with Kakashi when they have never fought. He only fought Pain and had no speed feats. Once again, show me some speed feats of SM Naruto, instead of assuming he is fast. Base Naruto speed is laughable, SM Naruto isn't much different unless you have several scans portraying his speed. Kakuzu was fighting several people at once. More so, he was outsmarted by Naruto, not blitzed. Blitzing is giving your opponent no time to think about what occurred, Kakuzu had developed a plan by then, but a bad one. Anyways, Sasuuke has fought big feat fighters like Deidara and Itachi. Naruto fought decent feat Kakuzu who never was effected by Naruto's speed and Pain who only had Ashura shut down due to speed, but again, not a blitz since Ashura wasn't even going for Naruto.

Desperation attempt? lol. Naruto in the right panel had already noticed while Tsunade was thinking about being a Hokage [ ]. Naruto was capable to stop him catching Ashura off guard, while tsunade was being caught off guard. On the other hand, show me Ashura's speed feats. You are simply assuming Ashura is some fast Path, when he has no feats of such speed. Denying Naruto catching off guard is laughable, he would have to stop the rockets in his feet, putting him in a bad situation either way. However, I am not denying this as a speed feat entirely, I am simply saying Ashura has no speed feats, and Naruto noticed prior to anyone else, meaning he is the only one who had a chance to stop him. Rinnegan has no pre-cog lmao. Rinnegan does not aid in taijutsu, so saying the dojutsu had any effect is fallacious. The path reacted to Naruto many times, so Naruto's speed is clearly not as special you think it is.

Now Sasuke being dodged by one of the fasted shinobi in 'Naruto' is something bad lmao. Deidara has speed feats beyond most people. Paths have.. no speed feats (unless you can prove they do have some). This kid.

Oh my, lmaoooooo. This must be the funniest thing I just read up to now. "All three methods work" More like all three methods kill Naruto.
1. Naruto isn't touching a raiton enhanced kusanagi sword.
2. Naruto isn't getting close enought o utilize his increased range, as I said in my last post. Sword with raiton and increasable range>5 cm increased range of SM.
3. That will not stop by getting caught, since it's raiton enhanced and though metal effortlessly. Nice try though, but Naruto has been chopped into two.

Snakes stopped both at the end of the day. Whether he was in the fight or not, they are considered extremely intelligent snakes and they use poison as well. DB says the most skilled shinobi's fail to escape these snakes. Naruto being an exception will require an argument on your side. Being weaker than Naruto won't matter, because the snakes restrained them with no difficulty, so even after Naruto has began to escape, he is guaranteed to get bitten by poison and lose.

Where was that explanation, I missed it. Raiton enhanced sword isn't being touched, unless you can prove Naruto is somehow resistant to it (which you can't since your 'proof' usually acts against you).

Again, I showed you the snake scan, where he used snakes to latch on something and rapidly traveled to that location. Anyways, Sharingan can sense build up of chakra. Sasuke is intelligent. Sasuke uses the snakes to escape, or uses to make a quick escape. Either way, Sasuke will escape. Oh, and Sasuke can fly away incase you didn't know [ ][ ][ ]. Saying he cannot dodge FRS is laughable.
Sage art rasengans to plow through? Nope. If he attempts to close the distance, Sasuke uses his swords increased range and incase Naruto dodges, giving him the victory. Sasuke can also do this [ ]-->[ ]. If he willed, he could create this as well when Naruto is 'plowing through with rasengans (wasting senjutsu chakra) [ ].

Obviously, you don't know the difference in power, Sasuke will win non-summoning SM Naruto any day. Making it clear to others? Lel, you're clearly an idiot if you believe any of your arguments are decent let alone good. Oh, and dat ABC logic...



Ahahahaha. Sigh. You have nothing. Now you're just trying to argue against what's clear as day.


Gee, I don't know why I think MS improves genjutsu, maybe it's the fact that he activates MS, which blinds him, meaning Sasuke's either retarded for using something no better than his standard powers at the cost of eyesight, or it enhances genjutsu.


I thought it was obvious Sasuke was bad at genjutsu since it was stated in the manga.

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"A weak genjutsu that doesn't last long." This is describing his mangekyo sharingan. It makes it very clear that Sasuke's genjutsu is not strong by any means.


Incorrect. The 3rd databook included Itachi's susanoo including Toska Blade and Yata Mirror. It also included examples of Hebi Sasuke. In fact, the one dedicated to his speed took things directly from the Itachi pursuit arc. It's clear that this is Hebi Sasuke's score. You might not like it, but that doesn't matter. Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu.


I don't even know what fight you're talking about. Be more specific. However, the rest of you post is clearly denial and hypocrisy. You're attempting to refute Naruto's speed feat by saying "Oh, it's ABC logic." There lies the hypocrisy. You're saying I can't use examples of base Naruto keeping up with someone who can't keep up with Kakashi, yet here you are, saying that Sasuke's automatically fast because he's fought on par with Deidera and Itachi. What is this again? Oh wait! ABC logic. ABC logic can be used for attributes. The thing it cannot be used for is who wins fights judging by power scaling. Things like speed can be used.


Here you are, confronted with the fact that SM Naruto has a speed feat exceeding Sasuke, so now you try to invalidate it. Asura has rockets for feet. He's obviously fast. He was capable of dodging Kakahsi's attacks. In this scenario, he used rocket shoes, so he obviously choose that to give him more speed. The "sensing" argument is one of the most unrelated arguments regarding speed feats I've ever heard. Did you forget that the rinnegan sees chakra? It works both ways. If Naruto sensed Asura, Pain sensed Naruto. I'll post this again.


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I'll run this through you again since it's clearly not registering. Rinnegan has shared vision. The other Pains had Naruto in their line of sight. Therefore, Asura saw Naruto. Ashura didn't attempt to defend himself against Naruto, therefore, since Naruto was always in their sight, he had to have moved so fast, that they couldn't even registered it. Therefore, SM Naruto is insanely fast and has a better speed feat than anything Sasuke did.

You want a speed feat from Asura? Look closely.

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He was moving so fast, that an anbu, an elite ninja, couldn't even react properly. Sage Naruto has ridiculous speed. Accept it, or be ridiculed by people who don't selectively read the manga in Sasuke's favor.


Sigh, you're clearly getting why extended range is a factor. The point isn't to outreach the sword. It's to use the extended range to exert physical force on the sword without touching it. Therefore, he can knock the blade out of Sasuke's hands without cutting himself. The idea that you think he can only extend 5cm is beyond ridiculous. It uses the natural energy surrounding him to extend the range of his attacks. This is what the manga portrays natural energy as.

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Now, you wish it were 5cm in an attempt to make it look useless, but it isn't.


I can't believe your arguments got progressively worse. You know what happens when someone weaker tries to grab someone stronger? SM Naruto will grab the snakes and pummel Sasuke if he even gets caught by him lol.


It's beyond laughable if you think the scans you posted mean crap. Ransenshuriken expands, meaning he'll fall victim to it even if he thinks he's out of range. Naruto can throw it point-blank as well. Sasuke's done for once Naruto brings out ransenshuriken. Did I mention I love the fact that you're so desperate that you brought out an obscure technique never used for combat and attempt to make it a decisive factor. It's like Orochimaru fans and paralysis technique and sound wave technique lol. You use obscure techniques since the limits of them aren't well known so you opponent can't say anything about them even though it's clear that they're useless since they are never used. And shuriken? Lol, he can literally walk through them due to his durability.



From now on, your posts are to be ignored. I believe I've made it very clear to the observers that you selectively read the manga with a huge hypocrisy and double standards to underrate Naruto and to make Sasuke look good and that your posts are not to be trusted. You're reading a manga with other characters than you fave. I suggest you learn to accept your character is not an unrivaled one in his time and actually take in the feats of the other characters, which are superior to Sasuke. Even if you reply, I won't be replying back. You're done. I've destroyed your arguments to the point where you need to invent bullcrap just to make Sasuke seem comparable.
 

daybros

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Sasuke wins.

He is way too fast for Naruto. His sharingan can differentiate between shadow clones and the real guy. Chidori senbon and chidori sharp spear take out clones from a 5 meter distance. Sasuke is inferior in taijutsu, but with sharingan he can probably keep up with Naruto until he can get away to a safe distance. He can dodge Rasenshuriken with his shunsin. And then there's genjutsu...if all else fails, he could spit fireballs and finish with Kirin.

Your kind attention please...

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There's no way to differentiate between the real user and kage bunshin in the techinique, so this a big loop-hole in your theory.

Off-Topic:This fight is my favorite fight in all of Naruto. No way I can forget that moment...
 

Beans2

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Your kind attention please...

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There's no way to differentiate between the real user and kage bunshin in the techinique, so this a big loop-hole in your theory.

Off-Topic:This fight is my favorite fight in all of Naruto. No way I can forget that moment...

Huh, I'm searching through scans and it seems like a certain part of the VoTE fight was filler. There was an instance in the anime at episode 36 where Sasuke distinguished clones from the real body with his sharingan. In that case, this fight could go either way.
 

Apêx1

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Ahahahaha. Sigh. You have nothing. Now you're just trying to argue against what's clear as day.


Gee, I don't know why I think MS improves genjutsu, maybe it's the fact that he activates MS, which blinds him, meaning Sasuke's either retarded for using something no better than his standard powers at the cost of eyesight, or it enhances genjutsu.


I thought it was obvious Sasuke was bad at genjutsu since it was stated in the manga.

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"A weak genjutsu that doesn't last long." This is describing his mangekyo sharingan. It makes it very clear that Sasuke's genjutsu is not strong by any means.


Incorrect. The 3rd databook included Itachi's susanoo including Toska Blade and Yata Mirror. It also included examples of Hebi Sasuke. In fact, the one dedicated to his speed took things directly from the Itachi pursuit arc. It's clear that this is Hebi Sasuke's score. You might not like it, but that doesn't matter. Hebi Sasuke has 3.5 in taijutsu.


I don't even know what fight you're talking about. Be more specific. However, the rest of you post is clearly denial and hypocrisy. You're attempting to refute Naruto's speed feat by saying "Oh, it's ABC logic." There lies the hypocrisy. You're saying I can't use examples of base Naruto keeping up with someone who can't keep up with Kakashi, yet here you are, saying that Sasuke's automatically fast because he's fought on par with Deidera and Itachi. What is this again? Oh wait! ABC logic. ABC logic can be used for attributes. The thing it cannot be used for is who wins fights judging by power scaling. Things like speed can be used.


Here you are, confronted with the fact that SM Naruto has a speed feat exceeding Sasuke, so now you try to invalidate it. Asura has rockets for feet. He's obviously fast. He was capable of dodging Kakahsi's attacks. In this scenario, he used rocket shoes, so he obviously choose that to give him more speed. The "sensing" argument is one of the most unrelated arguments regarding speed feats I've ever heard. Did you forget that the rinnegan sees chakra? It works both ways. If Naruto sensed Asura, Pain sensed Naruto. I'll post this again.


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I'll run this through you again since it's clearly not registering. Rinnegan has shared vision. The other Pains had Naruto in their line of sight. Therefore, Asura saw Naruto. Ashura didn't attempt to defend himself against Naruto, therefore, since Naruto was always in their sight, he had to have moved so fast, that they couldn't even registered it. Therefore, SM Naruto is insanely fast and has a better speed feat than anything Sasuke did.

You want a speed feat from Asura? Look closely.

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He was moving so fast, that an anbu, an elite ninja, couldn't even react properly. Sage Naruto has ridiculous speed. Accept it, or be ridiculed by people who don't selectively read the manga in Sasuke's favor.


Sigh, you're clearly getting why extended range is a factor. The point isn't to outreach the sword. It's to use the extended range to exert physical force on the sword without touching it. Therefore, he can knock the blade out of Sasuke's hands without cutting himself. The idea that you think he can only extend 5cm is beyond ridiculous. It uses the natural energy surrounding him to extend the range of his attacks. This is what the manga portrays natural energy as.

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Now, you wish it were 5cm in an attempt to make it look useless, but it isn't.


I can't believe your arguments got progressively worse. You know what happens when someone weaker tries to grab someone stronger? SM Naruto will grab the snakes and pummel Sasuke if he even gets caught by him lol.


It's beyond laughable if you think the scans you posted mean crap. Ransenshuriken expands, meaning he'll fall victim to it even if he thinks he's out of range. Naruto can throw it point-blank as well. Sasuke's done for once Naruto brings out ransenshuriken. Did I mention I love the fact that you're so desperate that you brought out an obscure technique never used for combat and attempt to make it a decisive factor. It's like Orochimaru fans and paralysis technique and sound wave technique lol. You use obscure techniques since the limits of them aren't well known so you opponent can't say anything about them even though it's clear that they're useless since they are never used. And shuriken? Lol, he can literally walk through them due to his durability.



From now on, your posts are to be ignored. I believe I've made it very clear to the observers that you selectively read the manga with a huge hypocrisy and double standards to underrate Naruto and to make Sasuke look good and that your posts are not to be trusted. You're reading a manga with other characters than you fave. I suggest you learn to accept your character is not an unrivaled one in his time and actually take in the feats of the other characters, which are superior to Sasuke. Even if you reply, I won't be replying back. You're done. I've destroyed your arguments to the point where you need to invent bullcrap just to make Sasuke seem comparable.

So conceited lmao. MS grants the user Tsukoyomi, Amateratsu, and Susano (between Sasuke and Itachi). It has never been stated to upgrade regular genjutsu. Unless you are claiming Naruto can actually get out of Tsukoyomi, then you're point is invalid. Furthermore, Naruto couldn't get out of Itachi's genjutsu without help. Nothing implies he will be capable of getting out of Sasuke's. Sasuke can also do what he did to Danzo and make it hard to notice. Again, unless you are willing to claim Naruto is more intelligent than Danzo, then you have nothing to say. Oh, and if you're willing to go with DB, then Naruto has a 2, Sasuke has a 4. Naruto doesn't have remotely enough skill to escape. It was stated in the manga? That's out of context. He said that the genjutsu is weak, as in the form of genjutsu, because it only alters perception. However, the fact remains that he said it was timed perfectly and Danzo didn't notice it, meaning Naruto won't. Oh, and it's describing his MS? LMAO. Out of context award winner right here. He's talking about the form of genjutsu, not his MS. Another reason to believe you are deluded.

Wut. There's no ABC Logic in this. If you are as fast as Deidara and Itachi, then you are faster than SM Naruto, that is fact. Then you somehow say Kakashi was as fast as Pain who is featless speed wise. Naruto blitzing him isn't a big feat, Pain's speed is featless. Your constant repetition of Kakashi being as fast as Itachi is ridiculous. Even Itachi said the fight was nothing more than nonsense [ ], meaning he wasn't taking him seriously.

However, Sasuke's fights were to the death, meaning it was nothing but seriousness. Sasuke kept up with Base Naruto in their small battle after having fought the summit and killed Danzo. By this point, he had gone almost blind and was extremely exhausted, yet Naruto still wasn't exceeding Sasuke.

He has rockets on his feet, cool. He was capable of dodging Kakashi's attacks, moving your head=/=dodging with body movement. And ok, he smashed someone with no movement feats into the floor, big wows.

Where's the speed feat. Last I checked Anbu's in the manga have repetitively been portrayed as useless and, as I said, tsunade was still speaking even after Naruto noticed Ashura's blitz.Look at the panel again, he ".....!" because he noticed Ashura attacking. And if you look at the next panel ( you read from right to left incase you didn't know) Tsunade is making a speech. Clearly she will have a much more delayed reaction. Again, this is no speed feat on Ashura's behalf, and a decent one on Naruto's, still incomparable with Sasuke doe.

Did I just read correctly? To outreach the sword? Show me a panel of Naruto's senjutsu reaching more than 5 cm from his fist. Sasuke's kusanagi is about a meter, with raiton it can be increased to an immense amount. Look at the scans I put, don't just read text and ignore scans, it's one of the reasons you remain deluded. Oh, and show me a scan of this insane bodily extension you speak of, that's nature energy going into his body. Nature energy is coming from everywhere around him, by that logic, he can extend his punch 100's of meters away. Show me a scan of this occurring, not your misinterpretations of speech bubbles. Look at the punch again [ ], interpret as you will, there's no way it is actually as big of a range as you're making it seem, let alone a katana range lel..

How can he grab the snakes? lol no. It envelopes Naruto and isn't touching his fingers.
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I am assuming you don't open links so I might as well put some spoilers, maybe that's the only way you will understand. They weren't affected by Suigetsu's sword. They aren't even being affected at all by anything, do note Juugo is on a rampage. Naruto won't have a chance. Even if he manages to escape, he will still have to struggle, be vulnerable to a poisonous bite, and somehow avoid being Chidori'd in the heart.

Wut once again. FRS expands, cool. What obscure technique? Every one of the techniques I showed would work. And if you are saying the flame technique is the one that is obscure, then you are clearly mistaken. It is basically a body flicker technique but instead of the smoke it leaves behind a image of yourself burning up. Oh, and walk through shurikens? lmaoooooo this deserves to get sig'd by someone. Naruto isn't durable to withstand a kunai's piercing capabilities. Being durable to power doesn't make you vulnerable to piercing abilities (unless you have proof for this statement?).

Yes yes, deluded people always think they are winning. My posts are not to be trusted? Lol, ask any old member on this site and he will more then willingly tell you that your debating skills are the ones I used in the second grade. You ignore scans, insult when you are lacking an argument, and believe observers are actually listening to your fallacious arguments. Maybe if you increase your interpretation skills (of the manga) you would realize how erroneous you are.
 

shelke

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Sasuke wins Mid Difference most. FRS is easily dodged with someone of Sasuke's Caliber, when Pein, who has no decent speed feats dodged it easily and stabbed two clones at the same time. This is literally the only thing he can throw at Hebi Sasuke. Anyone who denies that Hebi Sasuke cannot dodge FRS is off his rocker.

Frog Kata is literally useless unless it's not extremely close ranged combat, as shown when Naruto's punch almost brushed the Path's cheek to make it work. It was barely an inch worth of gap. Sasuke doesn't even need to get too close as his Katana does the talking. At strike rate, Sasuke far outclasses Naruto. This isn't even debatable.

Naruto's SM is five minutes worth and after Three FRS's, he's toast regardless of his time limit. His other Rasangans require contact. Sasuke was shown to jump up, use Fuma Shurikens and Chidori spear all at the same time in high speed combat against Deidara. He can also fly with CS2 activated. His CS2 is extremely durable given the size of explosion it tanked at the cost of a single wing. Nothuing in Naruto's measly arsenal matches that fire power.

Not to mention his Skill set far exceeds Naruto's and his Dragon Katon attack can be used - it literally tore up the Hide Out's Stone ceiling - against FRS to make it stronger and more potent.

I cannot see Sasuke losing to SM Naruto.
 

Voidstep

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it seems some people still think that Hebi Saske > SM Nardo
so lets see...

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here Zetsu says: "He's gotten really strong... He's probably stronger than Saske now."

now, he's talking to Taka Saske, who just awakened MS, and he never saw him in action
but he still says... SM Nardo might be stronger than him now, even without seeing what he's capabable of with his MS, suggesting Nardo is already stronger than the pre-MS Saske.


and now lets see what Zetsu knows about both...

here... Saske x Deidara
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here it's Zetsu observing the battle between Itachi vs Saske
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here... Nardo x Pein
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Zetsu knows what Hebi Saske and SM Nardo are capable of, and he still says that SM Nardo might be stronger than Taka Saske... obviously before seeing what he's capable of with his MS.

and let's not forget Zetsu don't exist... Zetsu = Kishi xD
 

InfamousB

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Hebi sasuke> SM naruto with summons restricted period, get over it. Adding CM2 to the mix sasuke shits on him. Honestly, the only factor here is frog kumite, rasenshuriken is not landing a hit on sasuke do to speed feats and if naruto attempts to throw them he runs out of sage mode and the fight becomes an absolute stomp.

SM naruto with summons> hebi sasuke as ma and pa pretty much counter sasuke arsenal. So hypothetically speaking the fight turns into sasuke vs toad summons frog call, sound genjutsu, and ma and pa combination jutsu on top of fighting naruto is just to much for hebi sasuke to handle.
 

Sennin of Logic

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Hebi sasuke> SM naruto with summons restricted period, get over it. Adding CM2 to the mix sasuke shits on him. Honestly, the only factor here is frog kumite, rasenshuriken is not landing a hit on sasuke do to speed feats and if naruto attempts to throw them he runs out of sage mode and the fight becomes an absolute stomp.

SM naruto with summons> hebi sasuke as ma and pa pretty much counter sasuke arsenal. So hypothetically speaking the fight turns into sasuke vs toad summons frog call, sound genjutsu, and ma and pa combination jutsu on top of fighting naruto is just to much for hebi sasuke to handle.


Lol some people.
 
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