hyuga>uchiha?

[archbeta]

Hiashi is not a minor char. He has a 5 for taijutsu. a 5. That is excellent. Itachi has a 4.5. Hiashi > in taijutsu.
As for Hiashi not fighting with his eyes closed. He obviously would. Gai fought with head down because of intel. Hiashi would definitely fight with his eyes closed.

 

[LeSauce]

Kakashi also says that they are only two living uchiha left. He was wrong. That's not necessarily Kishi saying that. That's Kakashi. Just like Kishi didn't say Obito was dead, Kakashi did.
The second panel is based on the premise that Hyuga's can't enforce ninja law. The Hyuga's are so good at enforcing law that we don't even know their secrets. According to your logic, that makes them superior shinobi too.
Besides, we all know why Tobirama made them the police force. There's no evidence to prove that Hyuga couldn't have done it too.

What?
Kakashi clearly said that the Uchiha was the top clan, that's not something he thinks happened, it's something that's a fact.
Kakashi says thing that are to his knowledge, he didn't know about the other Uchiha, but he did know about the clans.
And there's still plenty of other scans stating that the Uchiha and Senju were the strongest.

Hyuuga were never part of any law enforcement, only the Uchiha were. What that says is that only the Uchiha were strong enough to keep the other shinobi's in line, since they were superior. Tobirama chose them because they were fit for the job, it was just convenient for him.
1. Uchiha and Senju were considered the strongest of all the clans.
2.

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Hyuuga weren’t on top until the massacre. Not to mention, Kakashi was really scared just for facing someone with the Sharingan in their blood.
3.

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Ok, I may have exaggerated a bit when saying they were all geniuses, but it’s basically the same concept. The eye is what makes them elite. Just look at how much Obito improved as soon as he got the Sharingan.

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Then there’s this saying that they were superior to others in the village, including the Hyuuga.
4.

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The Uchiha were held in high regards, that’s something we can’t say about the Hyuuga.
5. Neji is considered a genius in the Hyuuga, but he pales in comparison to Itachi, a man considered a genius in the Uchiha, what does that tell you about the clans strength as a whole?
6.

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Even the new chapter puts the Sharingan above the Byakugan by saying it was it’s power that Kaguya relied on, not the Byakugans.

Not to mention that the Uchiha were superior shinobi < that includes the Hyuuga.

There's more, but I think this is enough. I don't know why people argue that Hyuuga>Uchiha so much when it's already canon that they're below 3 tomoe. Being strong shouldn't be what makes them great.

They're a great clan man, they're just not the strongest.

 

[archbeta]

This thread grew awfully quiet, not trying to sound arrogant but this is a summary of the arguments for hyuuga.
Ninjutsu:
Almighty Push = Vacuum Palm in terms of pushing Amaterasu away.
Sensory abilities = dodge all Susano'o attacks
Insight = telling when amaterasu and fire/water release will be used and dodging or pushing away
X-Ray Vision = see through closed eyes = no genjutsu
High taijutsu skills = counter close combat and even have advantage
Gentle Fist = one blow takes away quite a lot of chakra
High Stamina = outlast Uchiha
Rotation and Sensing = Easily countered kinjustsu
Insight = Battle intelligence

The Uchiha were the best mercenary clan alongside with Senju. Fact
Unfortunately the present tense begs to differ.

For all these reasons Hyuga > Uchiha

 

[Chie]

Yes, Itachi can use Water release too and he is a really adapt ninja. Will Itachi win in a one on one taijutsu match with Hiashi?
The Wiki says this about Itachi's weakness:
"As an Uchiha, Itachi had very strong chakra. However, he had low supplies of chakra which made him unable to participate in prolonged battles."

And this about his taijutsu:
"Itachi possessed high-level taijutsu skills despite not specialising in it. This was demonstrated when he easily defeated Tekka, Yashiro, and Inabi — all of them his seniors and members of the Konoha Military Police Force. In Part I, he stopped Sasuke's Chidori with one hand and effortlessly disabled him during their reunion in the Land of Fire despite Sasuke's extensive taijutsu training for the Chūnin Exams. His skill in taijutsu allowed him to keep up with Naruto Uzumaki in his Nine-Tails Chakra Mode and Killer B respectively in individual fights."
He has 4.5 on his database for taijutsu.

This is a snippet of Hiashi's taijutsu remarks on the wiki:
"Also, as the head of his clan, he is well-versed in all of his clan's secret techniques and the clan's Gentle Fist taijutsu style. While the full extent of his prowess remains unknown, his skill with the Gentle Fist was on display when he killed the Head Ninja of Kumogakure with a single strike to the chakra pathway system around his heart and left the fight unharmed. He can also use the Eight Trigrams Vacuum Wall Palm with such force using his both hands, that he was able to buffet one of the Ten-Tails' tails away by himself."
He has a 5 for taijutsu on the database which makes his taijutsu better than Itachi's. If he gets just one stroke, it can severely hurt Itachi because Itachi has low chakra reserves. If his taijutsu is better than Itachi's, he can quite easily get that one hit.

But this isn't a taijutsu match only. This is an overall battle. If you go by the databook, Itachi has better stats in nearly every category than Hiashi and a higher overall score. If you use the databook, then Itachi wins.

That and on Narutowiki, anyone can edit a characters page as long as they have an account. Stamina=/=chakra levels. A prime example of that fact is Kakashi. He has great stamina and can participate in long battles as long as he doesn't go around repeatedly using raikiri due to his chakra levels. Itachi's stamina sucks due to his illness, but he actually has alot of chakra. He managed to outlast Hebi Sasuke and even use more chakra-draining techs than him. The most chakra draining tech Sasuke used was oral rebirth, but Itachi used all three MS techs in that fight repeatedly.

Itachi isn't attacking a Hyuuga up close, especially when he lived in Konoha and was well aware of the clan and their abilities. He is going with his med-long distance techs and winning this. U_U

 

[Chie]

Yes, Itachi finishes his fights quickly. It's this magical thing called genjutsu. Genjustu allows him to finish fights quickly. Hiashi won't be caught in genjutsu. Hiashi is better in taijutsu. Fact. Itachi won't win in close combat because Hiashi just needs on strike to remove a whole lot of thelittle chakra that Itachi has.

1. Finger genjustu says hi
2. This isn't a taijutsu only fight, this is a real battle. Itachi has more med-long distance techs and knows the Hyuuga specialize in taijutsu. He's not going to engage in close combat.
3. Itachi doesn't have little chakra, just bad stamina due to his illness.

 

[archbeta]

What?
Kakashi clearly said that the Uchiha was the top clan, that's not something he thinks happened, it's something that's a fact.
Kakashi says thing that are to his knowledge, he didn't know about the other Uchiha, but he did know about the clans.
And there's still plenty of other scans stating that the Uchiha and Senju were the strongest.

Hyuuga were never part of any law enforcement, only the Uchiha were. What that says is that only the Uchiha were strong enough to keep the other shinobi's in line, since they were superior. Tobirama chose them because they were fit for the job, it was just convenient for him.
1. Uchiha and Senju were considered the strongest of all the clans.
2.

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Hyuuga weren’t on top until the massacre. Not to mention, Kakashi was really scared just for facing someone with the Sharingan in their blood.
3.

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Ok, I may have exaggerated a bit when saying they were all geniuses, but it’s basically the same concept. The eye is what makes them elite. Just look at how much Obito improved as soon as he got the Sharingan.

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Then there’s this saying that they were superior to others in the village, including the Hyuuga.
4.

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The Uchiha were held in high regards, that’s something we can’t say about the Hyuuga.
5. Neji is considered a genius in the Hyuuga, but he pales in comparison to Itachi, a man considered a genius in the Uchiha, what does that tell you about the clans strength as a whole?
6.

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Even the new chapter puts the Sharingan above the Byakugan by saying it was it’s power that Kaguya relied on, not the Byakugans.

Not to mention that the Uchiha were superior shinobi < that includes the Hyuuga.

There's more, but I think this is enough. I don't know why people argue that Hyuuga>Uchiha so much when it's already canon that they're below 3 tomoe. Being strong shouldn't be what makes them great.

They're a great clan man, they're just not the strongest.

In the past, the Hyuga clan would not teach many techniques to the branch family. Keep in mind that the branch family is larger than the main house. Because of this, the branch family was relatively weak compared to the main house and there was lots of jutsu that the main house knew but the branch family did not. In the present, Hiashi is not so strict on this rule and it seems branch family members now have the opportunity to be stronger. The wiki says this:
"After the noble sacrifice of his brother, Hiashi began to change his views with the caste system of his clan. As a result, Hiashi has also shown at times to be lenient and is not as strictly devoted to following the main house's traditions, as seen when he started training Neji in the Hyūga clan's full arts in the hopes to end the growing rift within the clan, despite it being considered a taboo to pass down secret techniques of the main house to members of the branch family."
This means that the past Hyuga clan was weak because it didn't allow the branch family to be strong. It is different now. That's why in the present Hyuga > Uchiha, wheras in the past Uchiha > Hyuga.

Secondly, Neji is considered a genius because he could attempt main house techniques despite being in the branch house. If Neji was born in the main house, he would be much stronger. If Itachi wasn't allowed to train the fireball jutsu, if his sharingan was restricted to 2T, he would not be as strong as he is now. Itachi's power was not restricted. Neji's was. But now it's not restricted anymore. That's why kid Itachi > kid Neji. If Neji were alive, by the time he reached Itachi's age. He would be stronger that when Itachi was that age.

Your points are based on the past where the branch family was opressed. It's a totally different context in the manga now.
In conclusion,your arguments prove that Uchiha > Opressed Branch family
You aren't countering the family as it is now.

The only point you raised that is recent is the Kaguya point, the problem I have with this is obviously Kaguya would use the Sharingan for genjutsu. The Sharingan specializes in genjutsu. It only proves that the Sharingan is better at genjutsu, not that overall, the Uchiha > Hyuga

So you've proved two things in summation:
1) Uchiha > Opressed Hyuga
2) Uchiha genjutsu > Hyuga genjustu

 

[ShiroT]

In IMO by saying that because hundreds of years ago Uchiha > Hyuga, it still holds true now. So far, there has been no substantive rebuttal to CC's claims.

1)Amaterasu was effortlessly countered by Nagato using Shinro Tensei. Fact. This is what the Wiki says about Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm:
"This technique is similar in practice to Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven, but has a specific target rather than a general area. To perform it, the user precisely pinpoints the enemy's vital points with the Byakugan and releases a high-speed palm thrust. A "vacuum shell" compressed using the Gentle Fist is formed to attack the opponent's vitals from a distance, blowing them off their feet with tremendous force before they even notice they were hit."
Amaterasu is a projectile so targeting a specific target fits that criterion. Fact. A Byakugan will sense the pressure behind the Uchiha's eyes. Fact. The underlined regions show that the Vaccuum Palm is extremely fast. Fact. It says that is a thrust which is a push. Fact. So it can be compared to Almighty Push which successfully countered Amaterasu. The Vacuum Palm is chakra based technique,it literally targets ninjutsu. Fact. This argument remains proven.

2) Amaterasu also puts a lot of strain on the user, even causing the user to bleed. If the user uses it in succession as well as Susan'o. They will lose stamina. The fight Sasuke vs Itachi was not very long. Proof is that while that fight was going on, Naruto and others were fighting Obito. None of them looked the least bit tired at all even though they were trying hard to land a blow on Obito. Because none of them were the least bit tired, they couldn't have been fighting for long. Sasuke and Itachi were extremely worn out in such a short period of time. This argument remains proven.

3) Susano's arrow has not been countered yet so I'll deal with that argument that has been brought up. Sasuke is the only person who can use this technique. Kakashi could not evade this technique with his sharingan and was forced to use kamui so speed and even the sharingan won't help. However, this is what the wiki says about the only person that has evaded the technique:
"Only Kabuto Yakushi, while utilising the extrasensory capabilities of Sage Mode, has been able to successfully avoid one of these arrows thus far."
The extrasensory capabilities of Sage Mode. This is what the wiki says about the advantages of Sage Mode:
1) The user's physical strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, perception and durability dramatically increase.
2) The user's ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu become substantially more powerful.
3) The user can manipulate the natural energy that surrounds them in this mode, turning it into an extension of their body, which increases the reach of their attacks.
4) The user gains the ability to sense chakra around them.
Extrasensory abilities fall in advantage number 4. The ability to sense chakra around them

According to the Wiki, Kabuto evaded Susan'o because of his ability to sense chakra around him. Note that the Wiki doesn't say that he evaded the arrow because he was faster. It literally says extra-sensory abilities.
So the only successful evasion was because of an extremely high chakra sensing ability
I wonder which clan is well known for having the the best chakra sensing ability?
I wonder which clan has an extremely high capability in chakra sensing?

4)Genjutsu
A Hyuga simply closes his/her eyes. This argument remains proven.
As for Izanagi and Izanami
The Wiki says this about Izanagi:
"To use Izanagi, users must also have the genetic traits of the Senju, who are also descended from the Sage."
We have to disregard Hashirama cells because that's not Uchiha power, it's more of the Senju > Hyuga. It actually just goes to prove that the Uchiha need help from Senju to defeat Hyuga.
Izanami is not a battle technique, it wouldn't help an Uchiha win a battle.

So Genjutsu is out of the picture. As proven earlier, ninjutsu is out of the picture.

Fire Release is easily countered by Hyuga's who will sense it coming. Itachi uses Water Release too, but that can be countered too.
Hyuga win at taijutsu but taijutsu is useless unless the Uchiha is removed from Susano'o. So, then how does a Hyuga counter Susano'o. The solution is to use the extrasensory capabilities to dodge the arrows and the sword.
This is what the wiki says about one of the Susano'os weaknesses:
"As one of the strongest techniques granted to those that have acquired the Mangekyō Sharingan, it is the user's guardian deity, but at the same time, it consumes the user's life."
The longer it used, the more worn out the user becomes. Unless the user has Hashirama cells, but we aren't considering the Senju in this clash.

In Summary, a Hyuga can counter or dodge all Uchiha ninjutsu. No genjutsu has an effect on the Hyuga. Close combat falls to the Hyuga too. Because all the Hyuga has to do is dodge and counter until the Uchiha loses Stamina, the Hyugawin against the Uchiha.

first of all it ha not been proven that hyuuga can see with there eyes closed(as that is idiotic in itself) the scan of the guy(forgot his name) has a eye patch on and if you go reread the chapture it shows that he looked at danzo's chakra network something that cna only be done with the byakugan open meaning his eye was open under the eye patch. There goes the genjutsu arguement

also pushing the amaterastu off is not a counter as your skin would be burned(even if you could managa to do it). You would be badly injured and in no way to continue the fight with itachi or sasuke.

and itachi spammed amateratsu and he has plenty of chakra for a fight with a hyuuga. The arguement that it uses up alot of chakra wouldnt even matter. THEIR WHOLE FIGHT was chakra taxing. Itachi used fire style tsukayomi and he sent out adleast 5 amateratsu's and a continues amateratsu before catching sasuke showing that itachi has the chakra reserves for a fight.

and that wiki was made by someobody and could be wrong in itself. It is i'll logical to believe you can dodge something faster then you just because you know its coming. Kabuto is way faster then hashi and susanno arrow is a very fat attack. Kabuto was obviously fast enough to dodge the attack yes seeing it coming helped but you need the speed feats which hashi has never shown. And the byakugan has never been shown to sense anything at all it SEES.

Already countered genjutsu

the only counter they have is rotation which will not last for ever and is a easy waiting game for someone with a amateratsu, susannoo or anything other jutsu. Rotation would be their downfall.

You have no proof that hyuga win a tai. Itachi just like sasuke are great at tai and im not going to debate that there better then hyuga in tai just that hyuga dont automatically win every tai fight not to mention sharingan would predict all of there movements and like i said byakugan is the ability to SEE there not sensing. You can see my attacks(anybody with normal eyes can do that) but i can predict what your doing

in summary they dont counter everything and as a air palm wouldnt even phase an susanno, back to square one

 

[Chie]

This thread grew awfully quiet, not trying to sound arrogant but this is a summary of the arguments for hyuuga.
Ninjutsu:
1. Almighty Push = Vacuum Palm in terms of pushing Amaterasu away.
2. Sensory abilities = dodge all Susano'o attacks
3. Insight = telling when amaterasu and fire/water release will be used and dodging or pushing away
4. X-Ray Vision = see through closed eyes = no genjutsu
5. High taijutsu skills = counter close combat and even have advantage
6. Gentle Fist = one blow takes away quite a lot of chakra
7. High Stamina = outlast Uchiha
8. Rotation and Sensing = Easily countered kinjustsu
9. Insight = Battle intelligence

The Uchiha were the best mercenary clan alongside with Senju. Fact
Unfortunately the present tense begs to differ.

For all these reasons Hyuga > Uchiha

Not the best argument here imo.

1. They would have to continously use that in order to get rid of amaterasu. A sharingan wouldn't just spam amaterasu when they see that it is taking no affect. They would wait until the Hyuuga stopped spinning and then use it. Unless you are as fast as A, you cannot dodge it. Amaterasu spawns wherever the user's line of vision is aimed at.

2. The Hyuuga lack the speed to dodge susanno attacks.

3. They cannot dodge amaterasu as long as the sharingan user's eyes can keep up with them.

4. Some Uchiha have other ways of casting genjutsu. Itachi's finger genjutsu says hi once again. But then again he's the only Uchiha shown to have the ability to cast genjutsu w/o his eyes, so if you set up the Hyuuga with someone other than Itachi, this statement does hold true.

5. But the Uchiha have more med-long distance techs in comparison to the Hyuuga. No one would fight the Hyuuga at close distance if they were an Uchiha.

6. The Uchiha have a decent amount of chakra. Not as much as the Senju do, but they still do have alot.

7. All the Uchiha have high stamina bar Itachi, and even then that was only due to his illness. In fact, every Uchiha we've seen minus Itachi has higher stamina than all the Hyuuga we've seen so far. The Hyuuga cannot fight forever either, Hinata has been shown to turn off her Byakugan when she is worn out.

8. Yes, they can counter kinjutsu. But they will have to keep that up as long as an Uchiha keeps it up.

9. Uchiha can predict movements with sharingan, they aren't half bad in battle either. The majority we've seen are also shown to be quite intelligent in battle and they were known to be an elite clan.

And to top it all off, the manga stated that when the Uchiha were around, they were the strongest clan in Konoha after the Senju. The massacre happened 8 years ago in their time. I doubt the every single tech from the Hyuuga has improved so much that they surpassed what the Uchiha clan used to be.

The Hyuuga are powerful and a good clan. But they are not better than the Uchiha in overall combat. U_U

 

[archbeta]

1. Finger genjustu says hi
2. This isn't a taijutsu only fight, this is a real battle. Itachi has more med-long distance techs and knows the Hyuuga specialize in taijutsu. He's not going to engage in close combat.
3. Itachi doesn't have little chakra, just bad stamina due to his illness.

1) Finger genjutsu is extremely weaker and easy to counter if you have good chakra control and can disrupt your chakra flow easily.
2) Med-Long distance means way more than enough time to counter and dodge all justu. Hinata can sense Amaterasu up to 10 km away. It also means that Itachi would have to use jutsu that exhaust chakra reserves.
3) This is what the wiki says about his chakra reserves:
"As an Uchiha, Itachi had very strong chakra. However, he had low supplies of chakra which made him unable to participate in prolonged battles"

 

[ShiroT]

1) Finger genjutsu is extremely weaker and easy to counter if you have good chakra control and can disrupt your chakra flow easily.
2) Med-Long distance means way more than enough time to counter and dodge all justu. Hinata can sense Amaterasu up to 10 km away. It also means that Itachi would have to use jutsu that exhaust chakra reserves.
3) This is what the wiki says about his chakra reserves:
"As an Uchiha, Itachi had very strong chakra. However, he had low supplies of chakra which made him unable to participate in prolonged battles"

that is the WIKI and could be just as wrong as you. You know who made it right? Some random person, im still waiting for a counter to my post

 

[Chie]

1) Finger genjutsu is extremely weaker and easy to counter if you have good chakra control and can disrupt your chakra flow easily.
2) Med-Long distance means way more than enough time to counter and dodge all justu. Hinata can sense Amaterasu up to 10 km away. It also means that Itachi would have to use jutsu that exhaust chakra reserves.
3) This is what the wiki says about his chakra reserves:
"As an Uchiha, Itachi had very strong chakra. However, he had low supplies of chakra which made him unable to participate in prolonged battles"

1) But the Hyuuga cannot break it in time and since Itachi has a 5 in the databook for base speed (He and Gai are the only ones), he would just blitz the Hyuuga he is facing.
2)But it's not possible to dodge amaterasu unless you have the speed of A. Also not very possible to dodge an attack like Yasaka Magatama or a susanno arrow when you are a Hyuuga. Also, the Hyuuga do not have sensory feats like that.
3) Random people post on Wikis all the time. On Hinata's profile it says she can use medical ninjutsu. I already proved that claim wrong anyway. U_U

 

[archbeta]

Not the best argument here imo.

1. They would have to continously use that in order to get rid of amaterasu. A sharingan wouldn't just spam amaterasu when they see that it is taking no affect. They would wait until the Hyuuga stopped spinning and then use it. Unless you are as fast as A, you cannot dodge it. Amaterasu spawns wherever the user's line of vision is aimed at.

2. The Hyuuga lack the speed to dodge susanno attacks.

3. They cannot dodge amaterasu as long as the sharingan user's eyes can keep up with them.

4. Some Uchiha have other ways of casting genjutsu. Itachi's finger genjutsu says hi once again. But then again he's the only Uchiha shown to have the ability to cast genjutsu w/o his eyes, so if you set up the Hyuuga with someone other than Itachi, this statement does hold true.

5. But the Uchiha have more med-long distance techs in comparison to the Hyuuga. No one would fight the Hyuuga at close distance if they were an Uchiha.

6. The Uchiha have a decent amount of chakra. Not as much as the Senju do, but they still do have alot.

7. All the Uchiha have high stamina bar Itachi, and even then that was only due to his illness. In fact, every Uchiha we've seen minus Itachi has higher stamina than all the Hyuuga we've seen so far. The Hyuuga cannot fight forever either, Hinata has been shown to turn off her Byakugan when she is worn out.

8. Yes, they can counter kinjutsu. But they will have to keep that up as long as an Uchiha keeps it up.

9. Uchiha can predict movements with sharingan, they aren't half bad in battle either. The majority we've seen are also shown to be quite intelligent in battle and they were known to be an elite clan.

And to top it all off, the manga stated that when the Uchiha were around, they were the strongest clan in Konoha after the Senju. The massacre happened 8 years ago in their time. I doubt the every single tech from the Hyuuga has improved so much that they surpassed what the Uchiha clan used to be.

The Hyuuga are powerful and a good clan. But they are not better than the Uchiha in overall combat. U_U

1. Vacuum Palm isn't the spinning technique
2. The Hyuga are quick but even if they weren't, according to the wiki, it's sensory abilities that are required to dodge the attacks.
3. They'll push it away
4. Finger genjutsu is very weak and a Hyuga can easily snap out
5. If they're med-long, the Hyuga can dodge even easier.
6. Even if that were true, blocking off just one specific chakra channel by the heart is fatal.
7. The Hyuga abilities are not known to put a strain on chakra abilites. Whereas, Sharingan abilites are. Itachi and Sasuke were exhausted after a very short fight, whereas Hinata, who had her byakugan activated in the fight against Obito, which was hepening at the same time, didn't look the least bit tired.
8.They can keep it up. Neji has been shown to counter kinjutsu consecutively using rotation, which doesn't take as long as you think it does.
9.The Rock Lee screen proved that predicting movements is useless if your opponent is better at taijutsu. The Byakugan has more insight than the Sharingan.

Again, the manga was comparing an opressed Hyuga against the Uchiha.

 

[ShiroT]

1. Vacuum Palm isn't the spinning technique
2. The Hyuga are quick but even if they weren't, according to the wiki, it's sensory abilities that are required to dodge the attacks.
3. They'll push it away
4. Finger genjutsu is very weak and a Hyuga can easily snap out
5. If they're med-long, the Hyuga can dodge even easier.
6. Even if that were true, blocking off just one specific chakra channel by the heart is fatal.
7. The Hyuga abilities are not known to put a strain on chakra abilites. Whereas, Sharingan abilites are. Itachi and Sasuke were exhausted after a very short fight, whereas Hinata, who had her byakugan activated in the fight against Obito, which was hepening at the same time, didn't look the least bit tired.
8.They can keep it up. Neji has been shown to counter kinjutsu consecutively using rotation, which doesn't take as long as you think it does.
9.The Rock Lee screen proved that predicting movements is useless if your opponent is better at taijutsu. The Byakugan has more insight than the Sharingan.

Again, the manga was comparing an opressed Hyuga against the Uchiha.

again the wiki is not a fact it is written by fans like you and me so saying the wiki is fact is like saying my opponion is fact. And kabuto obvious needed speed feats to dodge it which the hyuga have never been shown to have

 

[archbeta]

1) But the Hyuuga cannot break it in time and since Itachi has a 5 in the databook for base speed (He and Gai are the only ones), he would just blitz the Hyuuga he is facing.
2)But it's not possible to dodge amaterasu unless you have the speed of A. Also not very possible to dodge an attack like Yasaka Magatama or a susanno arrow when you are a Hyuuga. Also, the Hyuuga do not have sensory feats like that.
3) Random people post on Wikis all the time. On Hinata's profile it says she can use medical ninjutsu. I already proved that claim wrong anyway. U_U

1)Hyuga can instantly tell when they're in a weak genjutsu and break the weak genjutsu instantly. There really isn't enough time. Only Minato would make it in time.
2) I said that they'd push it away. They do have excellent sensory feats.
3) There are this numbers in blocks next to facts called citations. Those citations show you where the fact comes from. A person need only click on the citation and see where the fact comes from. A person can then read that chapter or watch that episode. Yes random people can post, but they have to post with evidence for the less obvious facts. Kind of like how we are random people debating this thing. That doesn't mean that what we say is automatically wrong. You can check up on the facts yourself. Anyway,if you watched Naruto Episode Shipuden episode 293, she uses Mystical Palm technique to heal someone. I think it's an Anime only fact.

 

[archbeta]

again the wiki is not a fact it is written by fans like you and me so saying the wiki is fact is like saying my opponion is fact. And kabuto obvious needed speed feats to dodge it which the hyuga have never been shown to have

Upon further inspection, the wiki, with valid citation, does also say this:
"Sage Mode greatly enhances Kabuto's speed, perception and reflexes to such an extent that he can easily dodge the arrows fired by Sasuke's Susanoo, which are noted for their tremendous speed."

So it appears that the only argument thus far that needs to be proven is the Hyuga dodging Susano'o attacks.

 

[ShiroT]

1)Hyuga can instantly tell when they're in a weak genjutsu and break the weak genjutsu instantly. There really isn't enough time. Only Minato would make it in time.
2) I said that they'd push it away. They do have excellent sensory feats.
3) There are this numbers in blocks next to facts called citations. Those citations show you where the fact comes from. A person need only click on the citation and see where the fact comes from. A person can then read that chapter or watch that episode. Yes random people can post, but they have to post with evidence for the less obvious facts. Kind of like how we are random people debating this thing. That doesn't mean that what we say is automatically wrong. You can check up on the facts yourself. Anyway,if you watched Naruto Episode Shipuden episode 293, she uses Mystical Palm technique to heal someone. I think it's an Anime only fact.

then show link to scans where it is said and stop using wiki, i could go in there and change everything you just said while still backing my self up would the wiki be right, thats just how someone interpreted something unless it was stated in scan which you havent provided. lmao

 

[ShiroT]

Upon further inspection, the wiki, with valid citation, does also say this:
"Sage Mode greatly enhances Kabuto's speed, perception and reflexes to such an extent that he can easily dodge the arrows fired by Sasuke's Susanoo, which are noted for their tremendous speed."

So it appears that the only argument thus far that needs to be proven is the Hyuga dodging Susano'o attacks.

no i posted other arguements which you ignored. And yes the hyuga have never hown such speed feats and as lee said just because you see something doesnt mean you can react and counter it

 

[KingHashirama]

Uchiha > Hyuuga


The warring states period already showed who the top 2 clans were..

 

[archbeta]

first of all it ha not been proven that hyuuga can see with there eyes closed(as that is idiotic in itself) the scan of the guy(forgot his name) has a eye patch on and if you go reread the chapture it shows that he looked at danzo's chakra network something that cna only be done with the byakugan open meaning his eye was open under the eye patch. There goes the genjutsu arguement

also pushing the amaterastu off is not a counter as your skin would be burned(even if you could managa to do it). You would be badly injured and in no way to continue the fight with itachi or sasuke.

and itachi spammed amateratsu and he has plenty of chakra for a fight with a hyuuga. The arguement that it uses up alot of chakra wouldnt even matter. THEIR WHOLE FIGHT was chakra taxing. Itachi used fire style tsukayomi and he sent out adleast 5 amateratsu's and a continues amateratsu before catching sasuke showing that itachi has the chakra reserves for a fight.

and that wiki was made by someobody and could be wrong in itself. It is i'll logical to believe you can dodge something faster then you just because you know its coming. Kabuto is way faster then hashi and susanno arrow is a very fat attack. Kabuto was obviously fast enough to dodge the attack yes seeing it coming helped but you need the speed feats which hashi has never shown. And the byakugan has never been shown to sense anything at all it SEES.

Already countered genjutsu

the only counter they have is rotation which will not last for ever and is a easy waiting game for someone with a amateratsu, susannoo or anything other jutsu. Rotation would be their downfall.

You have no proof that hyuga win a tai. Itachi just like sasuke are great at tai and im not going to debate that there better then hyuga in tai just that hyuga dont automatically win every tai fight not to mention sharingan would predict all of there movements and like i said byakugan is the ability to SEE there not sensing. You can see my attacks(anybody with normal eyes can do that) but i can predict what your doing

in summary they dont counter everything and as a air palm wouldnt even phase an susanno, back to square one

1)Hinata was shown to have X-Ray vision in that beetle filler. The point with Ao is not that his eyes were closed, the point was that he could see through the eye patch. This means that a Hyuuga can see through eye-lids. That;s the point, not that Ao's eye was closed, just that a Hyuga can see through eyelids which means that they would close their eyes to counter genjutsu.

2) Nagato pushed it.

3) It is continously said throughout the manga how taxing sharingan abilities are. He would have to spam abilities against a Hyuga anyway. Hyuga abilities are not as taxing. Hyuga's definitely win on sustaining the battle.

4) Seeing through closed eyelids means you haven't countered genjutsu

5) I keep saying Vacuum Palm is the preferred counter, not rotation, excepting kinjutsu

6) I have proof that hyuga have superior taijutsu, the databases give itachi 4.5 and hiashi a 5

7) I never claimed Vacuum Palm will phase Susano'o, as it stands, Susano'o is thus far the only ability that hasn't been countered yet

 

[archbeta]

Uchiha > Hyuuga


The warring states period already showed who the top 2 clans were..

Again, remember that in the past, the Hyuga did not teach powerful Jutsu to most of their clan. That has changed now. So now, the branch family can learn powerful jutsu. When most of the clan are heavily restricted, they'll obviously be weaker. That's not the case anymore.