Sasuke was an Awful Brother

[theacknowledgedone]

Better than you have. Two scans make you a sanctimonious prig and me an idiot? Clearly, if these two redundant scans add any depth to Itachi's already stale as a grey paint character, then you have no argument and Itachi is even more of a rock than I thought he was. Why don't you give your best shot?

Seriously, type an analysis, because this retort system of yours is broken and is hardly convincing.

Yeah

 

[lucario14]

There's one thing Itachi could have done better. He could've told sasuke thr truth from the very beginning instead of leaving him out of the loop and making him come to his own conclusions when he did not understand anything at all. It took him a long time plus talking to some dead guys to finally come to rational conclusion taking all the information acquired in his life.

Itachi said it himself how he made a big mistake so neither sasuke or itachi went about things the "correct" way but they each did what they thought was best and at the end of the day each person unconditionally loved the other even if they did not choose the best methods to display that love.

 

[shelke]

Yeah

The underlying metaphorical layers to this single dimensional zealot and a Nationalist. Second Macbeth in the making. You showed me.

 

[Ovan]

Sasuke has been though some thangs but it don't give him the right to be a D about it.

 

[lucario14]

It's ok if you have a grudge match with Orochimaru but et it go.

It's true that Itachi's decisions were better than his brother, but Sasuke lived his life in lies, so what do you expect? He loved his clan above everything else while Itachi cared too much for the village and destroyed the one thing that made Sasuke have hapiness. It's not Sasuke's fault that he actually stood up for what he loved and sought revenge afterwards. What would you have wished for Sasuke to do? After hearing the truth, return to Konoha and give everyone a hug? That's not how it works. Furthermore, why the hell do you want Sasuke to be a copycat of his brother? That completely negates the character that is Sasuke.

So damn true I don't get why people expect characters to follow their ideals and not respect that each individual will react differently in different situations. It's like these people think they own the manga and its characters.

 

[theacknowledgedone]

The underlying metaphorical layers to this single dimensional zealot and a Nationalist. Second Macbeth in the making. You showed me.

Do people around here take you seriously?

 

[shelke]

Do people around here take you seriously?

Are you going to setup serious and non-serious parameters?

 

[assface3]

Do people around here take you seriously?

Nope .

 

[Gorik FIGULLE]

danzo was saying all that to save his behind...when did the uchiha choose to sacrifice themselves for the village? truth is he was scared and tried to psych sasuke out...good thing sasuke did not give two bits flying ****

 

[Kakashi Hatakeo]

Sasuke is as sasuke does

 

[Chie]

Yeah uh no. Gaara had his brother, his sister and his people. Sasuke literally had no one. He watched his family and entire clan get slaughtered by his own brother and idol when he was only seven years old only to learn Itachi was protecting the leaf the whole time and manipulating him after he sacrificed being a Konoha shinobi when he was finally finding happiness again and then spent three years getting stronger to kill him with a murdering psychopathic shinobi that he hated.

It occurred when Sasuke was 8, not 7. Yes, Sasuke's life was terrible, all I stated was that I thought Gaara's early childhood was worse. Sasuke's life was perfect up until the age of 8. And he spent 2.5 years training w/ Oro, not 3.
Gaara didn't have anyone until Naruto reached out to him. The village wanted him dead and he was viewed as only a weapon. His father hired someone to assasinate him and that someone was the closest person to him at the time, his uncle Yashamaru. Then, he was told that his mother never loved him and his own siblings were afraid of him. Also doesn't help that he had Shukaku, a demon within him, telling him that he was worthless every night and that if he ever fell asleep, he would be released and kill him and destroy the village. Gaara's sob story>Sasuke's sob story.

But once again, that's all I wanted to point out. It doesn't really matter though, because they are two different people with totally different mindsets, just because someone like Gaara experienced pain and didn't go for revenge doesn't mean everyone is like that. However I still think it's wrong to say that Sasuke had a worse childhood (worse life than Gaara, yes...but childhood imo, no) when the majority of it was happy and even after the incident he had friends to support him and praise him all the way. Even if this is completely subjective and up for opinion.

 

[Xāvî1]

we know that!!!!!

 

[BLAZE]

It occurred when Sasuke was 8, not 7. Yes, Sasuke's life was terrible, all I stated was that I thought Gaara's early childhood was worse. Sasuke's life was perfect up until the age of 8. And he spent 2.5 years training w/ Oro, not 3.
Gaara didn't have anyone until Naruto reached out to him. The village wanted him dead and he was viewed as only a weapon. His father hired someone to assasinate him and that someone was the closest person to him at the time, his uncle Yashamaru. Then, he was told that his mother never loved him and his own siblings were afraid of him. Also doesn't help that he had Shukaku, a demon within him, telling him that he was worthless every night and that if he ever fell asleep, he would be released and kill him and destroy the village. Gaara's sob story>Sasuke's sob story.

But once again, that's all I wanted to point out. It doesn't really matter though, because they are two different people with totally different mindsets, just because someone like Gaara experienced pain and didn't go for revenge doesn't mean everyone is like that. However I still think it's wrong to say that Sasuke had a worse childhood (worse life than Gaara, yes...but childhood imo, no) when the majority of it was happy and even after the incident he had friends to support him and praise him all the way. Even if this is completely subjective and up for opinion.

curse of hatred and indra's transmigration jumps out of the window though.
op jimmies are just rustled becoz danzo gets hate for destroying sauce's life

 

[uzmakinaruto]

nice thread

Sasuke is the worst brother

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

He really was utterly selfish. Also shows how great of a brother Itachi was in contrast.

itahci is a pure evil monster who brutally and horrifically tortured sasuke for several days and beat him inot a coma. its a credit to sasuke that after all that he still loved itachi enough to avenge him.

For the sake of the village, Itachi lived the life of a devilish traitor.

no only for the sake of hismelf. itachi abandoned and did not care about konoha and made no efforts to protect it at all.

And he was okay with that because the alternative would bring destruction to his home. He truly loved Konohagakure more than anything else.

itachi ensured konohas destruction by giving bijuus to akaktsuki and doing nothing to rescue the jins

He venerated Itachi. He was saying "you're perfect" while shitting all over Itachi's wishes.

itachi shit all over sasukes wishes by torutring him and manipulating him

Bold is why he's an awful brother. For spouting on and on about how great Itachi is, Sasuke never cared about Itachi's wishes or Itachi's beloved home? That seems shitty.

itachi never cared about sauskes wishes and demanded that sauske go back to konoha and NOWHERE ELSE

He wasn't trying to force his love for Konoha on Sasuke

yet planned to horrifically torture him and then enslave him when sasuke doesnt grow up how he wants

He just wanted Sasuke to be safe

how will he be safe when hes been tormented and manipulated into becoming a revenge obsessed psychopath by itachi?

. He wanted Sasuke to be looked at as a hero and wasn't expecting his plan to fail.

even if sasuke isnt a hero and its all a lie? why cant sasuke be a hero on his own merits?

He wanted to die by Sasuke's hand in order to achieve that, imo that's actually quite selfless, not selfish

thats purely and utterly selfish. he wants to condemn sasuke to being praised for a lie, while thinking that death is a good punishment for his actions when it isnt.

Throughout the series, Sasuke has seeked vengeance and achieved nothing. He hasn't gained anything positive from it and yet still wants it.

and who set him down such a path?

The Uchiha were going to destroy Konoha in their vain attempt to gain power.
But I'd rather not get into who was right in the Uchiha Massacre r

the uchihas were like american revolution. only they failed whereas washington won

Fact is, Itachi loved Konoha in any case.

then why did he let it be destroyed via doing nothing about the major evil people threatening it?

What was Itachi supposed to do with Sasuke when he was alive? Tell him the truth so he can do what...go and destroy Konoha

sasuke wouldnt destroy konoha pre being brainwashed into vengeance as the answer to all his problems. young sasuke would have understood itachis decision

If Sasuke wanted to destroy Konoha, is that okay

yet itachi would have it so sasuke is tortured into insanity. he would still destroy konoa, not for revenge but for insane troll logic that any village that would be so weak as to let itachi kill his family doesnt deserve to live

It's not all about Sasuke and what he wants, there are other people in the Naruverse too.

its not all about itachi either. he thinks he can control sasuke and not let saske choose for himself

Itachi was attempting to think both of his little brother and other innocent people as well.

he didnt give one single shit about innocent poeple or else why let orochimaru do whatever he wants

Sasuke's life was pretty much going to suck either way the moment the Uchiha clan decided they wanted a coup, Itachi just wanted to minimize the damage & wanted Sasuke to live the best life possibly in the end, given the situation.

no he didnt. he wanted to maximise the damage and destroy sasukes mind permanently through brutal mental and physical torture and trauma. he made sure sasuke would grow up to be a psychopath

When Sasuke finally learned of Itachi's values and the true worth of the village he then came to the conclusion that the village was worth protecting.

no he just learnt that the hokages are to blame, not konohas people

Yes, he did manipulate Sasuke, but you also have to look at the reasoning behind it. It's not all just black and white. What would telling Sasuke the truth from the beginning have done? Make him just hate Konoha earlier and wish to destroy it

wrong. thats just made up bullshit you assumed.
young saske pre torture was pretty sane and sensibel. he went ballistic at itachi because itachi ddint give him a good enough answer as to why he would kill everyone. and then itachi poisoned and tortured him into insanity.
that insanity came to its hilt in part 2. theres no way hed be like "RAWR REVENGE" without the prior manipulation.
also whats your proof hed want konoha destroyed? he'd only want to target the elders who ordered it which is morally justified and heroic.

He did keep Konoha safe from war while he was alive

no he didnt. he destroyed it and wiped it out, as well as handed nukes to akatsuki/

. Itachi's real burden was being the brother of such a spoon-fed fodder.

and who made him that? who tortured sasuke to insanity

Thats what I appreciate most about Itachi he never claimed to be perfect or thought his way was completely righteous.

his actions reek of someone who thinks they can do anything to others and has the right to because he thinks he should

he made the terrible mistake of trying to make Sasuke the better brother when he spared him and wanted him to seek vengeance.

he made the terrible mistake of manipulating and torturing a small child and poisoning him into becoming a psychopathic avenger

Itachi was the better brother. Why? Because at least he admitted that what he did was not entirely right and he apologized for it

lol after dying. and even then its not really an apology so much as admitting he effed up

e. By Itachi making it look like he was behind this massacre for himself, he managed to put all the blame on himself. This allowed him to basically input hatred and the desire for vengeance into his own brother. T

which is the worst and most evil thing he ever could have fukin done. he condemned thousands to possible destruction by turning his brother into a monster

. Thus, Itachi successfully managed to take sasuke's attention away from konoha and onto his self

it could have been on no one if itachi played it sensibly and told sasuke the killers of the clan were dead already.

. Now Itachi planned to have sasuke avenge his clan by killing him, thus ridding sasuke of his hatred and making him a hero of the leaf

why would it rid him of his hate when sasuke admitted his next target was obito? and why would he go back?

If Itachi told him right after carrying out the S-Rank mission, Sasuke wouldn't understand at that age and hate the village

other way around. without being poisoned into hatred he could better listen and understand. as if hes gonna not freak out at the other thing itachi said! "lol i killed them all for no reason". sasuke is just as likely to hate konoha for letting itachi do this.

Or Itachi would have to take him along with him and they would be missing-nins together, which would completely erase any chances Sasuke would have for living in Konoha as a hero or even a respected citizen, considering Sasuke would be deemed a missing-nin from the start.

why is it so necessary that they be missing nins? how about expose the elders for the genocide and clear his own name.

If Itachi told him the truth later on, Sasuke wouldn't believe him due to hating him all his life prior.

yet obito, someone sasuke doesnt know, made him believe. itachi doesnt need to say "im not evil". he needs to say "i didnt kill everyone for the fun of it but because they were gonna start a world war, which im trying to do right now in akatsuki"

My only point is that just as it isn't that easy for Sasuke to just follow Itachi's will, it wasn't that easy for Itachi to just tell Sasuke the truth. Neither is a bad brother and they both loved each other

itachi hated sauske and brtually tortured him as a result

Itachi was protecting the leaf the whole time

no he wasnt. he didnt care about konoha and did nothing about the people wanting to destroy it

Itachi's revolved around protecting Konoha

wrong

About Shisui, Itachi didn't ignore what he said. He took it into account. Danzo being able to get Shisui's eye just further proved that he wasn't afraid to use force against the clan & that the clan would be done either way,

it proved to itachi danzo was the true enemy his clan wanted to stop

f the clan did initiate the coup and failed, they would all be killed and known as traitors for going against their own village.

and? the sand village initiated a massive invasion yet their reputation seems to be relatively ok.
uchihas being reviled should be nothing new given they kill each other for eyes.
also thats what they wanted. to be traitors. they should be remembered as they want to be, not how itachi thinks they should be.

The Uchiha clan would no longer have any honor and the village would be in terrible shape due to the resulting conflict

i think its they who get to decide what their honor is, not itachi
and the village was already in terrible shape. they lost their whole strongest clan! this is probably why oro chose that particular exams to invade. because uchihas were gone.

. Itachi took all the dishonor on his own and kept the clan innocent,

no he didnt. they are still traitors its just that itachi is selfishly keeping that a secret and judging his clan himself

which in turn protected Konoha from the Uchiha, thus fulfilling Shisui's wish. Itachi never forgot about what Shisui said.

itachi destroyed konoha and the world and betrayed everything he and shisui stood for by helping akatsuki kill everyone. he ensured knooha got wiped out by pain

Didn't care for the circumstances surrounding the coup? Itachi was one of the only ones who actually understood the curse of his clan, he understood the circumstances better than them. He left the future of the Uchiha to Sasuke lol.

who he tortured into insanity knowing his clan are cursed and knowing sasuke could become a second madara if pushed.

He cares more about his own selfish desire for revenge then why his brother went through all that pain, his brother sacrificed everything for both the village and his little brother.

no he didnt. itachi is a selfish sociopathic madman who helped to destroy konoha and dismantle it while aiding akatsuki greatly and helping them kill off jinchurikis.
itachi brutally tortured sasuke into a coma and poisoned him into embracing hate and revenge

? He knew exactly what he was doing. His choices were to die with his clan or to murder his clan and save his younger brother.

no they werent. he had thousands of choices. he chose the worst and most murderous one.
he chose to butcher his family whne he could have saved them and kept konoah strong

The second option at least gave his clan an opportunity to start a new life and live on in Sasuke's name.

no it didnt. the last uchiha woman is dead. the clan is extinguished from history and will forever be coup plotters no matter what itachi maniplated the world into thinking

It's true that Itachi's decisions were better than his brother,

itachis decisions started a world war

 

[the last shinobi]

There isn't much to disagree on.



I could list others with worse childhoods.

no you can't

 

[the last shinobi]

itahci is a pure evil monster who brutally and horrifically tortured sasuke for several days and beat him inot a coma. its a credit to sasuke that after all that he still loved itachi enough to avenge him.


no only for the sake of hismelf. itachi abandoned and did not care about konoha and made no efforts to protect it at all.

itachi ensured konohas destruction by giving bijuus to akaktsuki and doing nothing to rescue the jins


itachi shit all over sasukes wishes by torutring him and manipulating him

itachi never cared about sauskes wishes and demanded that sauske go back to konoha and NOWHERE ELSE

yet planned to horrifically torture him and then enslave him when sasuke doesnt grow up how he wants

how will he be safe when hes been tormented and manipulated into becoming a revenge obsessed psychopath by itachi?

even if sasuke isnt a hero and its all a lie? why cant sasuke be a hero on his own merits?

thats purely and utterly selfish. he wants to condemn sasuke to being praised for a lie, while thinking that death is a good punishment for his actions when it isnt.

and who set him down such a path?

the uchihas were like american revolution. only they failed whereas washington won

then why did he let it be destroyed via doing nothing about the major evil people threatening it?

sasuke wouldnt destroy konoha pre being brainwashed into vengeance as the answer to all his problems. young sasuke would have understood itachis decision

yet itachi would have it so sasuke is tortured into insanity. he would still destroy konoa, not for revenge but for insane troll logic that any village that would be so weak as to let itachi kill his family doesnt deserve to live

its not all about itachi either. he thinks he can control sasuke and not let saske choose for himself

he didnt give one single shit about innocent poeple or else why let orochimaru do whatever he wants

no he didnt. he wanted to maximise the damage and destroy sasukes mind permanently through brutal mental and physical torture and trauma. he made sure sasuke would grow up to be a psychopath

no he just learnt that the hokages are to blame, not konohas people

wrong. thats just made up bullshit you assumed.
young saske pre torture was pretty sane and sensibel. he went ballistic at itachi because itachi ddint give him a good enough answer as to why he would kill everyone. and then itachi poisoned and tortured him into insanity.
that insanity came to its hilt in part 2. theres no way hed be like "RAWR REVENGE" without the prior manipulation.
also whats your proof hed want konoha destroyed? he'd only want to target the elders who ordered it which is morally justified and heroic.

no he didnt. he destroyed it and wiped it out, as well as handed nukes to akatsuki/

and who made him that? who tortured sasuke to insanity

his actions reek of someone who thinks they can do anything to others and has the right to because he thinks he should

he made the terrible mistake of manipulating and torturing a small child and poisoning him into becoming a psychopathic avenger

lol after dying. and even then its not really an apology so much as admitting he effed up

which is the worst and most evil thing he ever could have fukin done. he condemned thousands to possible destruction by turning his brother into a monster

it could have been on no one if itachi played it sensibly and told sasuke the killers of the clan were dead already.

why would it rid him of his hate when sasuke admitted his next target was obito? and why would he go back?


other way around. without being poisoned into hatred he could better listen and understand. as if hes gonna not freak out at the other thing itachi said! "lol i killed them all for no reason". sasuke is just as likely to hate konoha for letting itachi do this.

why is it so necessary that they be missing nins? how about expose the elders for the genocide and clear his own name.



yet obito, someone sasuke doesnt know, made him believe. itachi doesnt need to say "im not evil". he needs to say "i didnt kill everyone for the fun of it but because they were gonna start a world war, which im trying to do right now in akatsuki"


itachi hated sauske and brtually tortured him as a result

no he wasnt. he didnt care about konoha and did nothing about the people wanting to destroy it

wrong

it proved to itachi danzo was the true enemy his clan wanted to stop

and? the sand village initiated a massive invasion yet their reputation seems to be relatively ok.
uchihas being reviled should be nothing new given they kill each other for eyes.
also thats what they wanted. to be traitors. they should be remembered as they want to be, not how itachi thinks they should be.

i think its they who get to decide what their honor is, not itachi
and the village was already in terrible shape. they lost their whole strongest clan! this is probably why oro chose that particular exams to invade. because uchihas were gone.

no he didnt. they are still traitors its just that itachi is selfishly keeping that a secret and judging his clan himself
itachi destroyed konoha and the world and betrayed everything he and shisui stood for by helping akatsuki kill everyone. he ensured knooha got wiped out by pain


who he tortured into insanity knowing his clan are cursed and knowing sasuke could become a second madara if pushed.

no he didnt. itachi is a selfish sociopathic madman who helped to destroy konoha and dismantle it while aiding akatsuki greatly and helping them kill off jinchurikis.
itachi brutally tortured sasuke into a coma and poisoned him into embracing hate and revenge

no they werent. he had thousands of choices. he chose the worst and most murderous one.
he chose to butcher his family whne he could have saved them and kept konoah strong

no it didnt. the last uchiha woman is dead. the clan is extinguished from history and will forever be coup plotters no matter what itachi maniplated the world into thinking


itachis decisions started a world war

rock on brother these are excellent response from someone not love struck by itachi

 

[~Sky~]

Sasuke never showed any form of respect for his brother that he himself claimed to be 'perfect.'

Sasuke didn't have to adhere to Itachi's wishes, Itachi himself said this, but if you love someone truly, you would respect their life's work.

 

[lucario14]

Sasuke never showed any form of respect for his brother that he himself claimed to be 'perfect.'


Sasuke didn't have to adhere to Itachi's wishes, Itachi himself said this, but if you love someone truly, you would respect their life's work.

True but itachi showed no respect towards sasuke either. He treated him like a little kid who was incapable of doing the right thing. Had itachi told sasuke the truth from the beginning it would've been a completely different story. On top of that he mind rapes him so bad Just to invoke hatred into sasuke?
Both loved each other but had funny ways of showing it

 

[Conspirator.]

The way itachi handled the sasuke situation was awful. I am certain that Itachi KNEW about the whole uchiha curse of hatred thing. I understand that he needed to act like a villain, but torturing sasuke for 24 hours straight was a bit much-given the clans history of hatred, did he REALLY expect sasuke to turn out normal?