[Theory] Surpassing Madara

[The Robot With Human Hair]

These are mostly my thoughts on how exactly Indra's Jutsu are connected through the Hindu god Indra, his brother Agni, as well as the Shinto gods Susano'o, his sister Amaterasu, and their brother Kagu-Tsuchi. As well as why Sasuke will surpass Madara through unifying these three techniques.

Some short Wiki descriptions of these deities

Indra, also known as Śakra in the Vedas, is the leader of the Devas or gods and the lord of Svargaloka or heaven in the Hindu religion. He is the god of rain and thunderstorms.

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Susanoo (須佐之男 (スサノオ) romanized as Susano-o, Susa-no-O, Susano'o, and Susanowo?), also known as Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto (建速須佐之男命?) is the Shinto god of the sea and storms. He is also considered to be ruler of Neno-Katasu-Kuni (now in Yasugi-shi, Shimane-ken).

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Agni, the Vedic god of fire, has two heads, one marks immortality and the other marks an unknown symbol of life. Agni has made the transition into the Hindu pantheon of gods, without losing his importance. With Varuna and Indra he is one of the supreme gods in the Rigveda. The link between heaven and earth, the deities and the humans, he is associated with Vedic sacrifice, taking offerings to the other world in his fire. In Hinduism, his vehicle is the ram.

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Kagu-tsuchi or Kagutsuchi (カグツチ?), referred to as Hinokagatsuchi (火之迦具土?) in the Kojiki, and Kagutsuchi (軻遇突智?) or Homusubi (火産霊?) in the Nihon-Shoki, is the kami of fire in Japanese mythology.

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Amaterasu (天照?), Amaterasu-ōmikami (天照大神／天照大御神?) or Ōhirume-no-muchi-no-kami (大日孁貴神?) is a part of the Japanese myth cycle and also a major deity of the Shinto religion. She is the goddess of the sun, but also of the universe. The name Amaterasu derived from Amateru meaning "shining in heaven." The meaning of her whole name, Amaterasu-ōmikami, is "the great august kami (Gama or God) who shines in the heaven".

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These are bare-bones descriptions of these deities, and within the manga, essentially, the techniques Amaterasu, Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi and Susano'o reflect Indra and Agni. Indra is the supreme god in Hindu religion, while Amaterasu is the supreme goddess in Shinto, Susano'o is the storm god in Shinto, while Indra is a storm god in Hindu, Kagu-Tsuchi is the fire Kami in Shinto, while Agni is the god of fire in Hindu.

Susano'o is Indra's (the Naruto characters) spirit, while Amaterasu along with Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi make-up Agni's strength.

Focusing on Agni and Amaterasu

Agni is said to be immortal as his fire is re-lit daily, similar to Amaterasu's undying black flame.

Spoiler

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Agni also has two separate forms, one to burn and carry sacrifices and the other to burn flesh. Similar to Amaterasu and Enton: Kagutsuchi, one ability to incinerate foes, and one ability to burn and cut flesh.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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On to Susano'o and Indra

Susano'o itself is represented as Indra's chakra. In this way, Indra and Susano'o, both storm deities, are unified as manifestations of the same person.

Spoiler

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Sasuke's talent

Sasuke makes use of each of these techniques, which is why Sasuke will surpass Madara, as he has the strength of both Indra and Agni. Once all three techniques are used to their highest potential, Madara will have been surpassed.

Which would render Madara's statement on Amaterasu incredibly ironic.

Spoiler

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And Orochimaru's statement proves true.

Spoiler

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Conclusion

Uchiha ocular jutsu represents unity between Shinto and Hindu deities, Madara makes up one unified entity between Indra/Susano'o and Sasuke makes up two between Indra/Susano'o and Agni/Amaterasu/Kagu-Tsuchi and through uniting these three jutsu at his highest potential, he will surpass Madara.

 

[UCE]

Amazing thread

 

[The Great Second Hokage]

i like this =D

 

[Madara Uzumaki Uchiha]

Love it-- think you can find a way to connect naruto to ashura??? I have heard other theories similar to yours ( not as detailed) but I have not seen any connections between naruto and ashura ( mythology wise)

 

[TheAncientJinchuuriki]

Wow I like it

 

[A$AP Wap]

So he just has to master Susano'o and Amaterasu and he's stronger than Madara?
How about when Madara solo'd Sasuke before Sasuke even stepped foot on the ground?

 

[adeshina365]

Excellent thread. Hopefully this is the direction that Kishimoto will take things.

The absence of Enton: Kagutsuchi at the highest level (Perfect Susanoo) is possibly a hint towards this being the case.

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

This man needs a medal. Kishi slipping on making everything obvious.

 

[Dark Link]

This was a great read

 

[Microsword57]

In Other Words an Enton: Perfect Susanoo?

 

[Transcendence]

In Other Words an Enton: Perfect Susanoo?

Well beyond that, it would give way to multiple things that involve the use of Enton/Amaterasu in conjunction with Perfect Susano'o. We've seen the higher the Susano'o stage, the more abilities are amplified. Sasuke's Enton Arrows would be Bijuudama esque and would increase in power dramatically. Sasuke made particular use of just Kagustchi as a mini-wave of sorts (and if you've played the Storm games, it's highlighted well there as well). Imagine him using that but under the guise of the Perfect Susano'o pushing it akin to how Madara amplified the force and power of Kurama's Bijuudama and the size of the Enton would increase well, almost like an Enton Wave.

OT: Incredible thread. I have my own thoughts that may happen due to what Hagoromo may entrust to Naruto with Sasuke already breaking the parallel gaining the Body in the very near future.​

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Excellent thread. Hopefully this is the direction that Kishimoto will take things.

The absence of Enton: Kagutsuchi at the highest level (Perfect Susanoo) is possibly a hint towards this being the case.

Thanks, and after today's chapter, I'm starting to believe that's the case.

The lack of it is peculiar, seems as though this is being saved.

So he just has to master Susano'o and Amaterasu and he's stronger than Madara?
How about when Madara solo'd Sasuke before Sasuke even stepped foot on the ground?

With the power of the Senju.

Love it-- think you can find a way to connect naruto to ashura??? I have heard other theories similar to yours ( not as detailed) but I have not seen any connections between naruto and ashura ( mythology wise)

It's not quite as in depth, but Naruto/Ashura lacking god gifted talent and their rivalry with the heavenly gifted Indra/Sasuke is how they connect. Basically, the talented are deva's as the heavens smile upon them, while the untalented are ashura's as they are shunned by the gods.

 

[davidou]

Nice thread.

The number of great stories that Kishimoto is mixing together is impressive!

Love it-- think you can find a way to connect naruto to ashura??? I have heard other theories similar to yours ( not as detailed) but I have not seen any connections between naruto and ashura ( mythology wise)

There is no connection. Ashura transmigrated in Naruto at his birth.

We know a lot about the moon , I want to know a little about the sun.

 

[The Robot With Human Hair]

Nice thread.

The number of great stories that Kishimoto is mixing together is impressive!

Thanks.

Well beyond that, it would give way to multiple things that involve the use of Enton/Amaterasu in conjunction with Perfect Susano'o. We've seen the higher the Susano'o stage, the more abilities are amplified. Sasuke's Enton Arrows would be Bijuudama esque and would increase in power dramatically. Sasuke made particular use of just Kagustchi as a mini-wave of sorts (and if you've played the Storm games, it's highlighted well there as well). Imagine him using that but under the guise of the Perfect Susano'o pushing it akin to how Madara amplified the force and power of Kurama's Bijuudama and the size of the Enton would increase well, almost like an Enton Wave.

OT: Incredible thread. I have my own thoughts that may happen due to what Hagoromo may entrust to Naruto with Sasuke already breaking the parallel gaining the Body in the very near future.​

Thanks, and interesting thoughts on Enton integration. Would like to hear your thoughts on Naruto's side of this, as well.

In Other Words an Enton: Perfect Susanoo?

Well, Perfect Susano'o wielding Enton weaponry. The Susano'o's weapons would be enhanced by the black flames and the black flames would be enhanced by Susano'o's power.

 

[adeshina365]

Well beyond that, it would give way to multiple things that involve the use of Enton/Amaterasu in conjunction with Perfect Susano'o. We've seen the higher the Susano'o stage, the more abilities are amplified. Sasuke's Enton Arrows would be Bijuudama esque and would increase in power dramatically. Sasuke made particular use of just Kagustchi as a mini-wave of sorts (and if you've played the Storm games, it's highlighted well there as well). Imagine him using that but under the guise of the Perfect Susano'o pushing it akin to how Madara amplified the force and power of Kurama's Bijuudama and the size of the Enton would increase well, almost like an Enton Wave.

OT: Incredible thread. I have my own thoughts that may happen due to what Hagoromo may entrust to Naruto with Sasuke already breaking the parallel gaining the Body in the very near future.​

The latest chapter has me thinking that Kishimoto isn't going down the Mokuton/Rinnegan path for Sasuke.

 

[SasukexNeji]

TBH, and I don't mean to offend any Madara fans... after 670... so6p Madara seems less threatening now... don't get me wrong--he's still a BA! But, he's no Hagoromo or Hagoromo's brother... and don't get me started on mom dukes (Kaguya). Madara NEEDED to be brought down... and 670 did just that, imho.

 

[flyboyissac]

The real susanoo and sasuke

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[shelke]

I like the Indra reference the most - Sasuke having bent Lightening to its will and Amaterasu, solidifies the reincarnation that much more. Perhaps we might even see Kirin's return in some form. Great thread. Indra is one deity I didn't know about from that list. So, his addition puts the pieces of the puzzle together nicely.

 

[Ricardo]

Nice Thread ! You sir, have my rep!

 

[saw2097]

This actually does sound plausible.