Edo Hiruzen vs Killer Bee

[Penguin]

But he is a perfect jin.

Explains why he got caught in genjutsu. Explains why it was never confirmed but just hype. He was not a perfect Jin. Deal with it.

 

[TobiramaWaterStyle]

Explains why he got caught in genjutsu. Explains why it was never confirmed but just hype. He was not a perfect Jin. Deal with it.

The fact that Kisame expressed shock that Yagura was being controlled by a Sharingan shows he believed that Yagura while hosting the 3 tails was insusceptible to genjutsu. And it also shows that the genjutsu used upon him wasn't weak or breakable by normal means.

 

[Avinash012]

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Maybe a perfect Jin, which he is not. Perfect Jin's break out of any genjutsu. Yagura is not a perfect jin.

Yagura is a perfect Jin and it is a manga fact.Twisting manga statements ain't going to help u against Lawd Hiruzen.Remember,going against Hiruzen's hype in VS threads is same as going against manga.

Explains why he got caught in genjutsu. Explains why it was never confirmed but just hype. He was not a perfect Jin. Deal with it.

Lel,since when does genjutsu is ineffective against jins? They might be able to break fodder uchiha kids genjutsu but plz don't compare fodder level genjutsus with the genjutsu of GOS.

Wheh will someone calls a jin as a perfect jinchuriki? Obviously when he pulled Bijju out of his ass and show some circus feats with his tails so the fact that they call him a perfect jin proves that he pulled bijju out of his ass.Still U can say that Obito made him look like a perfect jin then it supports my point because Obito must control both Bijju as well as its host to made them look like a perfect pair which proves that controlling bijju and it's host with genjutsu at the same time is possible.So,Lawd Hiruzen'll trap both of them in his godlike genjutsu at the same time so that they can't break out of genjutsu.

 

[lelerskates]

The ball of Buijuu Bomb can change trajectory, or even slapped right back.

Hiruzen's Wind Stream, that rival Buijuu scaling, can send enough force to push it back to Bee, thus.[

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]

Reason why is because Wind Release specializes in, not only cutting power, but increase the velocity of an attack, thus increasing the attack directional force.

lol, giving Hiruzen a Juubi feat. While we're at it, let's give him Rinnegan feats also!

Bee wins. He's faster, stronger and has his ink seal to finish Hiruzen. It's a stomp, to be honest.

 

[miromiro]

Killer Bee wins.

 

[Bronze]

---

Base Form​

Killer Bee will always utilize his 7 sword style when fighting without using Hachibi's power. In this case, he will beat Hiruzen badly. This is where Bee forms tactics with Samehada in order to land hit on Hiruzen. For example being this scan [

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]. As you can see, if it weren't for the Rinnegan shared vision, an attack of that would have landed so badly. Hiruzen will be distracted by Samehada giving Killer Bee enough time to launch his Raiton pencil which is showing to have more cutting power than Futon:

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One hit from that, and Hiruzen will have a hole in his head giving Bee enough time either seal him, or use Samehada to drain his Chakra which is limited based on Orochimaru's version of Edo Tensie. Even if not utilizing this tactic, Bee can use the 7 sword dance, which even Sasuke got beaten by [

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] [

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]. Bee had even forced Itachi to jump to Nagato's position. Hiruzen will not be able to keep up with what the Uchiha has failed at. Worst case, he will get taken out.

---

Version 1/Version 2/Bijuu Mode​

In case if the battle has gone any longer(which wouldn't), Bee will eventually finish it by entering either version, and the battle will go down as i will show below:

1). Version 1, Bee demonstrates incredible speed and raw power that Hiruzen will not keep up with. For example, this attack [

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]. Hiruzen's speed feats and reactions show he cant escape this scale.

2). Version 2, Bee's speed and physical strength is even doubled fold, as he can now make use of attacks such as shock waves [

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] which has enough power to repel Shinra Tensie. A Bijuu Dama [

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]. He is also granted with durability level to withstand Hiruzen's elemental attacks. So this version is enough to manhandle Hiruzen.

3). Bijuu mode, even though its not needed, but in case Bee transforms to it. Hiruzen has no chance against this at all. He can cause a

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to paralyze Hiruzen on the ground giving him time to seal him with Ink fuinjutsu [

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]. Bee can also use TBB that dwarfs him [

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] which will obliterate Hiruzen to dust. I saw your post earlier, saying Hiruzen's Futon can repel it. But that lacks the force to actually do it. Hashirama needed his strongest base technique in order to contain 1 TBB, and Hiruzen's techniques don't contain that much force. Once Hiruzen is dust, Bee seals via Ink Fuinjutsu.

---

Killer Bee mid diff at most.

 

[Touken]

Bee destroys.

 

[Prince Charles]

I will address two things for your post first:

1. CQC
2. Dealing with TBB (Do later after next reply)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. I always take things from base form before jumping to the characters next power up set. That said, Enma only needs to present when Bee decides to reply on his Buijuu's power.
1a. What Hiruzen can substitute for now is summon a Giant Shiruken, to deal with Base Bee:

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Kishimoto gave Hiruzen a 5 in Taijutsu so there no reason to say he can't use the Kuma Shiuken with nintaijutsu[

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][

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]. The way Hiruzen Kuma Shiruken looks, shows its even bigger then Obitos, so he can only one of his. But thats no problem as Hiruzen can use this nintaijutsu in a form fighting style: chakram. If common sense isn't apply here then the evidence is shown the way Hiruzen swung around with Enma by a different vary:

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​

Hiruzen with this style can cover more defensive range to parry Killer Bee's own style. It slide by his waist so he cover all corners with the blade and give it a good spin to cancel out Bee's spin attack. Now I won't say this style will overcome Bee's, but will keep Hiruzen safe from being overwhelm by Bee's unorthodox style.

1b. Bee will eventually kick it up a notch, by utilizing nature transformation in his weapon. But Bee is up against the Professor, Hiruzen Perception when it comes to elements give him the edge. The latest chapter proves that Hiruken has much more experience in nature transformation then Bee. So if Bee tried to over power Hiruzen weapon, Hiruzen can shoot any element from his mouth and also added the element to cancel or overpower Bee's, by adding it to his own Shiruken. Wind Nature is speculating since those who shown chakra control of wind at least created it nature to make it as thin as possible, while Hiruzen hasn't shown that. But its a guaranteed that he can infuse Lightening and Fire with his shiruken.

LOl just no bro, just stop.

 

[lelerskates]

I will address two things for your post first:

1. CQC
2. Dealing with TBB (Do later after next reply)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. I always take things from base form before jumping to the characters next power up set. That said, Enma only needs to present when Bee decides to reply on his Buijuu's power.
1a. What Hiruzen can substitute for now is summon a Giant Shiruken, to deal with Base Bee:

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Kishimoto gave Hiruzen a 5 in Taijutsu so there no reason to say he can't use the Kuma Shiuken with nintaijutsu[

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][

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]. The way Hiruzen Kuma Shiruken looks, shows its even bigger then Obitos, so he can only one of his. But thats no problem as Hiruzen can use this nintaijutsu in a form fighting style: chakram. If common sense isn't apply here then the evidence is shown the way Hiruzen swung around with Enma by a different vary:

You must be registered for see images

​

Hiruzen with this style can cover more defensive range to parry Killer Bee's own style. It slide by his waist so he cover all corners with the blade and give it a good spin to cancel out Bee's spin attack. Now I won't say this style will overcome Bee's, but will keep Hiruzen safe from being overwhelm by Bee's unorthodox style.

1b. Bee will eventually kick it up a notch, by utilizing nature transformation in his weapon. But Bee is up against the Professor, Hiruzen Perception when it comes to elements give him the edge. The latest chapter proves that Hiruken has much more experience in nature transformation then Bee. So if Bee tried to over power Hiruzen weapon, Hiruzen can shoot any element from his mouth and also added the element to cancel or overpower Bee's, by adding it to his own Shiruken. Wind Nature is speculating since those who shown chakra control of wind at least created it nature to make it as thin as possible, while Hiruzen hasn't shown that. But its a guaranteed that he can infuse Lightening and Fire with his shiruken.

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you? It's ok. Maybe one day you will find a boyfriend to love you for who you are. Just keep telling yourself that you're "pretty".

 

[Brother Numpsay]

lol, giving Hiruzen a Juubi feat. While we're at it, let's give him Rinnegan feats also!

Who are you? If your going to quote me then you better learn to at least read. What you see is an example not an actual feat of Hiruzen being able to flick a TBB. It was purely shown for that reason, which is why I brought up Wind Release, and why it would work.

lol, giving Hiruzen a Juubi feat. While we're at it, let's give him Rinnegan feats also!

Now throwing petty insults to be a somebody here? lol

LOl just no bro, just stop.

Serious PC, thats just straight up close minded. There was nothing wrong with that post. The premise wasn't even shown that Hiruzen will get the upper hand with CQC, but showed that Bee cannot use this alone, to defeat Hiruzen, regardless of Bee's Kenjutsu.

 

[PlasticAngelx]

Killer Bee stomps

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Killer Bee will always utilize his 7 sword style when fighting without using Hachibi's power. In this case, he will beat Hiruzen badly. This is where Bee forms tactics with Samehada in order to land hit on Hiruzen. For example being this scan [

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]. As you can see, if it weren't for the Rinnegan shared vision, an attack of that would have landed so badly. Hiruzen will be distracted by Samehada giving Killer Bee enough time to launch his Raiton pencil which is showing to have more cutting power than Futon:

That can be an effective strategy if you look at the characters personal reaction feats. Bee use the same strategy against Kisame, while already lost focus on Bee[

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][

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]. So it comes to whos personal reaction he is dealing with. In Fuu's case, she had to be controlled and needing share vision to support her.

What can Hiruzen personally do, to live up the feats of countering this strategy? In a 1v1 he intercepted Budda's ninjutsu and simultaneously canceled out their justu[

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]. The key word was intercepted. He will be fully aware of his surroundings, if he knew what ninjutsu will be release before they do.

Thats not all he was able to sneak in and tag Edo Kages, while Orochimaru was watching[

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] (acting as a shared vision). Sneaky traps is part of Hiruzen's style too.

Hiruzen vast knowledge will also know about Samehada, and Killer Bee being a perfect jinjiruki. So he should know what Bee is capable of.



If Samehada is out to use (and not throw out of distraction), Hiruzen can emit Fire manipulation on his Fuma Shirukens[

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] since Hiruzen being from the Sarutobi clan, at their peak, are skilled at manipulating (and the fact he can form his into a dragon, manipulating to go any direction he desires). Bee struggling to counter one Fuma Shiruken is one thing, but Hiruzen can fool him by duplication others the moment Bee thinks he counter[

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]. Databook explains this:

Bunshin add to a single thrown shuriken, and in an instant become a
thousand blades. As each one is a physical form, evasion is next to impossible,
surely an absolute encirclement of blades!!

Creating a thousand Kage Bunshin from one shuriken and attacking the enemy, a
combination jutsu of weapons and ninjutsu. It can be said to be a more advanced
material Kage Bunshin than the regular Kage Bunshin. As it does not require
previous preparation or stocking up, and each Kage Bunshin is a substantial
form, not an illusion, the concept and efficiency is surely that of a
"Professor" alone

Even if not utilizing this tactic, Bee can use the 7 sword dance, which even Sasuke got beaten by [

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] [

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]. Bee had even forced Itachi to jump to Nagato's position. Hiruzen will not be able to keep up with what the Uchiha has failed at. Worst case, he will get taken out.

The reason why the Uchiha failed was because they didn't have a proper defense to deal with Bee's unorthodox style. The way Hiruzen wield his Kuma Shiruken can also be used for CQC:

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A Shiruken blade can cover all 4 corners from a attack. Hiruken can swing around[

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] the blade's to parry off Bee's .So unlike Itachi, who has no weapon to properly parry his style, and Sasuke, who's weapon didn't have enough defensive range to block the attack, Hiruzen can parry more effectively (Which may I remind you having a perfect score in Taijutsu in Kishimoto's Databook).

1). Version 1, Bee demonstrates incredible speed and raw power that Hiruzen will not keep up with. For example, this attack [

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]. Hiruzen's speed feats and reactions show he cant escape this scale.

I wouldn't underestimate 3rd's Speed here. He was able to get out of Gojō Kibaku Fuda range, when Tobirama told him to leave[

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][

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]. Which I may remind you Gojō Kibaku Fuda is at the range (width and height) of Senpou Budda and PS.

he instantly Closed the gap from Oru engaging in Close combat and matching Oru, in this scerio.[

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] to [

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]

He will definitely gave that much time as Juugo. Plus what can do worst cast scenario (I will mention concerning V2)

2). Version 2, Bee's speed and physical strength is even doubled fold, as he can now make use of attacks such as shock waves [

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] which has enough power to repel Shinra Tensie. A Bijuu Dama [

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]. He is also granted with durability level to withstand Hiruzen's elemental attacks. So this version is enough to manhandle Hiruzen.

Worst case scenario if V2 is being charged at him, Hiruzen can protect himself with Enma's cage defense[

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]. Protecting him from any physical encounter.

Since I allow Enma anime feat (cant find gif), he can stretch himself like Kusanagi sword (Who he tied with and was able to knock/parry away[

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]).[

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]. Which is able to knock back V2 tremendously.

Raiton is the only element with penetration force, that can effect V2 armor.

Hiruzen can trap V2 in a adamant cave, and shoot lightening between the gaps.

3). Bijuu mode, even though its not needed, but in case Bee transforms to it. Hiruzen has no chance against this at all. He can cause a

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to paralyze Hiruzen on the ground giving him time to seal him with Ink fuinjutsu [

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]. Bee can also use TBB that dwarfs him [

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] which will obliterate Hiruzen to dust. I saw your post earlier, saying Hiruzen's Futon can repel it. But that lacks the force to actually do it. Hashirama needed his strongest base technique in order to contain 1 TBB, and Hiruzen's techniques don't contain that much force. Once Hiruzen is dust, Bee seals via Ink Fuinjutsu.

Remember where I said Hiruzen is fully aware of Buijuu's with manga intel. The fact that he interpret what Mokuton Buhhda was going to do and counter, will be the same as Bee charging a TBB, and attempting to spin his tail to create a whirl wind.

Bee's whirlwind:

- The name speaks to itself, its wind circulation creating a hurricane. Hiruzen perception will take advantage of it, since[

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] it will make his Katon stronger.

Hiruzen use Adamant cage to endure the hurricane, while using Katon+Wind Release w/ his shadow clone to boost his attack. So we have Katon+Wind+Bee's whirlwind. Hiruzen Flame Dragon, since it can control its direction[

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][

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], so the entity will reach all of Bee. It will take Gyuuki time to recover from that burning damage.

TBB:

- You mention me stating wind release can be use to change the trajectory of TBB. What I meant was the ball itself. They're specific tail beast blast. One form of a shape of a ball and one from a blast.

Ball: Like I said, wind release can do it, it has nothing to do with how Mokuton is done. Hashirama also mention his signature Jukai Kōtanm can do the same to a even bigger TBBall[

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]. Or if I were to show Naruto doing it in [

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] or [

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]. The fact remains that the ball can be redirected by something else that can provide a good force. Wind Release can aid because it has the ability to not only be use to cut, but using air circulation to increase the direction of an attack. Examples: [

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->

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][

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>

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]. Hiruzen dwarfing Wind Pressure will definitely do it. Or I can use ABC logic in this case.1. Juubi has enough strength to flick the ball.

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.3. Hiruzen Wind Release is even larger and logically having more pressure, since it being breath like a flame thrower.

Blast: The first and only time bee use the blast version was when he tilted his head up[

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]. The last time he tilt his head when he was trying to gather alot of energy for his TBB[

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].


Hiruzen will simply gain some distance when its being charge, or take advantage of the charge time in general. All Hiruzen needs to do is create the debris Doton he did against Buddha[

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]. Dont underestimate it just because it looks like a bunch of rocks. This is how Kisimoto portray Earth Release:

The Nature that alters everything in solidity and composition. If one masters it, it is possible to give jutsu or objects the resistance of steel and the flexibility of clay.

Hiruzen shooting out this jutsu is basically made of the resistance of steel hitting you.

Once Bee fires that blast, that Doton stream will simply force the blast to explode on that location of impact, keeping Hiruzen from getting hit on range.

 

[Bronze]

Man, too much bullsh1t in your counters, JK. Anyway, i will counter this tomorrow.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Man, too much bullsh1t in your counters, JK. Anyway, i will counter this tomorrow.

Lmao. It took me a while to gather resource to make a counter. This is my first time defending Hiruzen

 

[Bronze]

That can be an effective strategy if you look at the characters personal reaction feats. Bee use the same strategy against Kisame, while already lost focus on Bee[

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][

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]. So it comes to whos personal reaction he is dealing with. In Fuu's case, she had to be controlled and needing share vision to support her.

What can Hiruzen personally do, to live up the feats of countering this strategy? In a 1v1 he intercepted Budda's ninjutsu and simultaneously canceled out their justu[

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]. The key word was intercepted. He will be fully aware of his surroundings, if he knew what ninjutsu will be release before they do.

Thats not all he was able to sneak in and tag Edo Kages, while Orochimaru was watching[

You must be registered for see links

] (acting as a shared vision). Sneaky traps is part of Hiruzen's style too.

Hiruzen vast knowledge will also know about Samehada, and Killer Bee being a perfect jinjiruki. So he should know what Bee is capable of.



If Samehada is out to use (and not throw out of distraction), Hiruzen can emit Fire manipulation on his Fuma Shirukens[

You must be registered for see links

] since Hiruzen being from the Sarutobi clan, at their peak, are skilled at manipulating (and the fact he can form his into a dragon, manipulating to go any direction he desires). Bee struggling to counter one Fuma Shiruken is one thing, but Hiruzen can fool him by duplication others the moment Bee thinks he counter[

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]. Databook explains this:

Shinsuusenju's interception was completely different than seeing through Killer Bee's tricks, since Hiruzen was standing right in front, so naturally, he will be able to see what's happening. And Kisame's example is also different, since Kisame was still running, giving him time to see what Bee is doing. Regarding Orochimaru's example, even if he saw it, why he would he care if Edo Tensie zombies are immortal. So your counter for this part is not proficient enough, and Bee's method will still work.

Samehada is too fast to be caught by that technique, and Bee can always protect it using 7 sword dance [

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].

---

The reason why the Uchiha failed was because they didn't have a proper defense to deal with Bee's unorthodox style. The way Hiruzen wield his Kuma Shiruken can also be used for CQC:

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A Shiruken blade can cover all 4 corners from a attack. Hiruken can swing around[

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] the blade's to parry off Bee's .So unlike Itachi, who has no weapon to properly parry his style, and Sasuke, who's weapon didn't have enough defensive range to block the attack, Hiruzen can parry more effectively (Which may I remind you having a perfect score in Taijutsu in Kishimoto's Databook).

Sharingan counts as defensible weapon, which grants better defense than giant Shuriken. And you realize that even if he used this form of defensible and defensible attack, it will remain useless against Raiton user who cut giant blade with 1 sword through Raiton [

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]. Shuriken is made from steel, and since Bee is using 7 swords which he can transmit Raiton to each of them, as well as his incredible speed [

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] that Sasuke, hyped to have godlike speed in Databook failed to keep up with, Hiruzen's Shuriken will be penetrated and he will be pierced same way Sasuke was. So he has no chance of countering this, unless he keeps his distance away. Hiruzen's Databook score are false. You're basically saying he is equal to Gai and Lee and we know that's not true, especially with his feats.

---

I wouldn't underestimate 3rd's Speed here. He was able to get out of Gojō Kibaku Fuda range, when Tobirama told him to leave[

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][

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]. Which I may remind you Gojō Kibaku Fuda is at the range (width and height) of Senpou Budda and PS.

he instantly Closed the gap from Oru engaging in Close combat and matching Oru, in this scerio.[

You must be registered for see links

] to [

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]

He will definitely gave that much time as Juugo. Plus what can do worst cast scenario (I will mention concerning V2)

Gojo is not close to being height and width of PS and Shinsuusenju. The explosion was barely bigger than Gamakechi [

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]. Hiruzen's best speed feat is keeping up with Hashirama and Tobirama through Shunshin. Killer Bee's speed is inhuman.

In base, he intercepted a point range punch from Ay [

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]. He traveled from the cliff, all the way to the mountain in split of second without Karin(sensor) and Sasuke(Sharingan wielder) had even noticed [

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], while Sasuke, hyped to be godlike at Shunshin needed Juugo's Senjutsu chakra to barely where Bee was, when Bee made it there instantly in base. Bee had even kept up with KCM Naruto in footspeed while in base. Look at how fast he traveled from the mountain to the battlefield:

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Hiruzen has never shown anything close to that level of speed or reactions, so once Bee uses that, its over for Hiruzen.

---

Worst case scenario if V2 is being charged at him, Hiruzen can protect himself with Enma's cage defense[

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]. Protecting him from any physical encounter.

Since I allow Enma anime feat (cant find gif), he can stretch himself like Kusanagi sword (Who he tied with and was able to knock/parry away[

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]).[

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]. Which is able to knock back V2 tremendously.

Raiton is the only element with penetration force, that can effect V2 armor.

Hiruzen can trap V2 in a adamant cave, and shoot lightening between the gaps.

Lol, i hope you're not serious that Enma's cage is actually going to tank point range Bijuu Dama of this scale:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Where was it stated or shown, Raiton can effect V2?. If so, Samehada uses its absorption ability to suck Raiton [

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]. So that will render that method useless as well.

---

Countering the whirlwind method:

You're taking the name of the jutsu out of context. The jutsu produces shock wave twist, not actual wind. Further the implication, Viz translation names the jutsu ''Eight-Tailed Beast Twister'', so its not Futon technique. Even if it was, Hiruzen's Katon will not counter even if he upgrades it with Futon. The scale of the jutsu is devastating.

Spoiler

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The area Killer Bee produced is about twice the size of Konoha. Hiruzen's tiny Katon and Futon will do nothing to defend against it.

Countering TBB:

That maybe a way of stopping of 1 TBB, but the difference between Hiruzen's size and Futon his technique is not that much. Even so, he WILL not stop 4 TBB aimed at him:

Spoiler

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Blast: Its not the fact i am understimating the jutsu, its just the fact you're overrating it. I hope you realize that Bee's blast of TBB dwarfed Hacibi;

Spoiler

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Not to mention its explosion created a valley:

Spoiler

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And you're making it sound as if Bee's TBB takes too long to charge. It only takes seconds, and Hiruzen will not gain time to create distance, taken consideration of how massive the explosion and power it carries within. And Hiruzen's Doton technique is going to counter it you think? lol. The energy compressed within the blast is immense. Hiruzen's Doton is merely natural rocks. Its gonna blow him up to pieces.

---

Bonus Add

Ink Mist, Bee can use this jutsu to blind Hiruzen, and since the latter lacks sensory abilities to track him down. This gives Bee time to finish him off [

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].

Ink Clones, Hiruzen in this case, will be facing multiple opponents, and since Bee can have them manifest V1 or V2 cloak, their teamwork will overwhelm Hiruzen.

 

[Curse Mark]

Not trying to be rude but no real counter has been given to the non-ball TBB. I can't remember what people refer to it as though.z

 

[Penguin]

The Flash Dama or something?

 

[Curse Mark]

The Flash Dama or something?

Yeah that one. It dwarfed Bee in BM, there's no way Hiruzen can counter that.

 

[Prince Charles]

first that tobirama thread and now this.

Ej u on a molly?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

first that tobirama thread and now this.

Ej u on a molly?

Tell me what you remember from the Tobirama thread.