[VS] EMS Sasuke vs BSM Naruto.
- Thread starter Naruto.
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Sennin of Logic
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Unless you can prove otherwise, you have no choice. Here's another feat that's more solid and sounds more reasonable.
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That ransengan managed to crack one of the black orbs. Here's the tanking feat it has.
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Obito's barrier was on par with the hokage one.
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The 4 TBBs had the same effect as the juubi TBB.
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With 4 orbs, Obito tanked that without having them crack. So, BSM Naruto's ransengan is slightly above 1/8th of the juubi TBB. I cannot be any more generous to your side of the argument as this is a feat set in stone. It's up to you if you want to deny feats, but this is how Kishi's writing the manga.
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I can argue Juubito was ready to tank those attacks against 4 TBB whilist whipping out a quick shield is something entirely different. The Juubi has nothing but senjutsu energy. Narutos attack is obviously inferior
Sennin of Logic
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Naruto's attacks are inferior overall to the juubi, but it's important to understand this.
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With BSM Naruto, we're talking about Kurama's chakra focused to the maximum potency, bolstered by SM, verses Juubi that, although has more energy, has 0 focus.
For a comparison, it's like comparing Part 1 Naruto clone making to Sasuke's clone making estimation. The true power of the juubi can only be seen from the jinchuriki, and not the juubi itself. So the juubi, despite Naruto's feat, is still leagues above. I'd also like to add this.
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Obito had to resort to using 9-10 of his orbs to block Naruto's TBB and Sasuke's arrow. Even then, there was some damage. Maybe you're right about prepping against an attack, but it's uncertain. My main point was to demonstrate that Naruto does indeed have feats in BSM.
KidGamer65
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If you can prove that the orb that was cracked by Rasengan is equal in defense to the orb that tanked those Juubidama, then you will have an argument when it comes to the point of Naruto's Rasengan being stronger than 4 Juubidama. Until then, any and every point you make on the matter is moot.
Still can't believe anyone would even try to claim that a Rasengan is stronger than a Juubidama, even if it is one near the size of the Kurama Avatar enhanced by Senjutsu. Lol, lets be serious here.
Sennin of Logic
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It was 4 orbs that blocked the juubidama. Don't blame me. Blame Kishi, who made these events occur. I'm only going by what I observe.
KidGamer65
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-Where is it shown that 4 orbs were used to block the Juubidama? All you see is Obito wrapping Onmyoton around himself.
-How in the world is that even relevant?
You can't say a Rasengan is stronger than Juubidama when you have no evidence let alone proof that the Onmyoton orbs used to block both were equal.
Optimistic
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Still nothing but speculation from Naruto fans. Fact remains, Amaterasu destroys Natural Energy as shown through Kabuto incident. Frog Kata was shown to work from nearly an inch away on one of the paths, BSM Naruto availing it is preposterous given the Enton Spam from Sasuke. PS was shown to tank thousands of Buddha hands and then it began to flake off. Durability wise, it's V3 that would be closer to BSM as Senjutsu enhanced V3 parallels it, proven through the scans where Obito attacked them both, removing their armours equally.
Genjutsu is a great counter as well, as how Naruto was looking straight in Itachi's eyes whilst telling Bee not to look at them. I mean, I have countless examples for this as to how remote the chances are for Naruto to not do the same again here. Naruto sensing Chakra Built-up is fanfiction at best, as he's not that type of sensor, not even in SM form. There isn't a single scan in the entire manga to prove it. So him seeing anything coming is preposterous. KCM Clones are not even worth mentioning with their tiny Tbbs and FRS that become a death trap for Naruto himself.
High difference is as far as I'll go here. EMS Sasuke is laughably underrated on basis of nothing but poor speculation and self-made interpretations, when the manga has shown no enhancements to Bijuu Damas with SM.
Genjutsu is a great counter as well, as how Naruto was looking straight in Itachi's eyes whilst telling Bee not to look at them. I mean, I have countless examples for this as to how remote the chances are for Naruto to not do the same again here. Naruto sensing Chakra Built-up is fanfiction at best, as he's not that type of sensor, not even in SM form. There isn't a single scan in the entire manga to prove it. So him seeing anything coming is preposterous. KCM Clones are not even worth mentioning with their tiny Tbbs and FRS that become a death trap for Naruto himself.
High difference is as far as I'll go here. EMS Sasuke is laughably underrated on basis of nothing but poor speculation and self-made interpretations, when the manga has shown no enhancements to Bijuu Damas with SM.
Sennin of Logic
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It was the same jutsu, please explain how it could not be equal. I won't object to Naruto's ransengan being weaker at all. It seems absurd to me as well, but the feat is there. I just don't see how it's not considering manga feats.
Obito used 6 orbs to form the barrier, 4 were left. I don't have proof that he used 4, but I'm going for the weakest Naruto's BSM ransengan could be. No orbs were visible when he was forming the shield.
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KidGamer65
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Lol, your point? Them being the same jutsu doesn't mean anything. The fact he can make it different shapes, sizes and he can produce different amounts means that all variants of the black chakra are equal. That's like saying all Susanoo are equal just cause they are the same jutsu. Not how it works.
You posted a scan of Naruto's small Bijuu Dama and Sasuke's arrow cracking an Onmyoton shield from Obito. Are we saying that a standard Bijuu Dama and a Susanoo arrow are stronger than 4 Juubidama? I hope we aren't.
Still not seeing an explanation for how the number of orbs used to form the defense has anything to do with anything here. If you are trying to say more orbs equals more defensive power, then you are only destroying your own argument as Obito
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, he just used the black chakra from his hand to make a shield (Smaller than the one that blocked the Juubidama, and made of less of the black chakra than the shield used to block Juubidama)Saying a quickly made black chakra shield is stronger than a black chakra shield that Obito took his time making, and also used more of the black chakra to make are equal is laughable anyway. There is literally no feat that lets you say a Senjutsu BM Rasengan is stronger than a Juubidama.
UchihaNagashi
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RustledJimmies
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Sennin of Logic
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Pretty sure given your username you're trying to start a flamewar. Regardless.Sasuke got this in the bag , come at me Naruto fanboys
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Perfect Susanoo's destructive power only rivals bijus. BSM is Kurama, a very strong biju, enhanced by Sage Mode.
The attack that destroyed PS entirely only made a valley. The thing that takes out Some of Naruto's tails in BM alone, is something that plows through easily 7 mountains. With Sage enhancement, it's much more. Naruto's sensing and tracking in BSM equals Sasuke's EMS. Sasuke has no feats of using enton with larger susanoo.
Sasuke's outclassed.
RustledJimmies
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I'm not trying to start anything , i just stated my opinion , but anyways ...
unstabilized PS already tanked 100% Kyuubi's BD with no damage , any Bijuu Dama's Naruto charges will blow right at Naruto's face when Sasuke uses Amaterasu , Naruto can't keep BM for more than 8 minutes so he gets outlasted , BSM doesn't add anything new bar sensing , so yeah Sasuke wins this .
Sennin of Logic
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1. You're forgetting the vital fact that Madara blocked it with his swords, in other words, it reduced the damage.
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Plus, 100% TBB cannot be compared to a TBB from BSM Naruto as Sage Mode enhances far above even 3X when it comes to ninjutsu. I can provide proof of this.
2. Sasuke cannot use amaterasu and susanoo simultaneously, only enton. We've seen a bad result of their simultaneous usage and Sasuke has never used it like that ever again.
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Also note Obito's statement. "Quickly after using susanoo." Implying that it cannot be used simultaneously. Why in the world do you think he uses enton projectiles with susanoo? Amaterasu is much more effective.
3. False. That was the limit several transformations ago. First time he used it, it was 5 minutes. The second time he used BM, it was 8 minutes, implying the time it he can stay in BM increases after each transformation. Given he's transformed at least 2 times after the time he stated it was 8 minutes, it's most likely 14 minutes.
4. Yes it does. His sensing equals EMS tracking. That's an undeniable manga fact.
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Naruto definitely wins.
RustledJimmies
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1. I don't see how that makes my point any less valid , in fact it just supports my point , and it's the other way around , Naruto's BD is the one that's not comparable to 100% Kyuubi's
2. We're talking about EMS Sasuke here , unless I'm missing something , and Obito said right after that : "...Must Have Taken a lot From Him... "
3. Speculation
4. Did you read what i said ?? "BSM doesn't add anything new bar sensing"
Sennin of Logic
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1 and 4. Are you actually saying that SM doesn't enhance BM Naruto at all? I've got news for you, it's literally against the definition of senjutsu to not have it that way. BSM Naruto's attacks are senjutsu since they can hurt Obito. This is what Fukasaku said about senjutsu.
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If this were just SM and BM used simultaneously, TBBs from the Kurama cloak were just Naruto adding his own senjutsu chakra into it, The TBB itself would not be senjutsu, and the result would be only Naruto's chakra would reach Obito. Due to Kurama's chakra being far more massive than Naruto's, there's nowhere near enough natural energy attached to Naruto's chakra to match Kurama's. Therefore, Naruto must have fused natural energy with Kurama's chakra. Otherwise, by Fukasaku's definitions, his attack would not be senjutsu.
2. You're missing the point. Why did he mention "right after susanoo?" This would mean that he can't use both simultaneously. Also, the fact that he relies on enton projectiles further proves my point.
3. You do realize that everything in a VS match is speculation right? Your assumption that Naruto has not increased his time limit is also speculation.