Discussing the plot hole of chakra control and Sharingan

[CrystalPad]

You must be registered for see images

It just crossed my mind that Despite the implied excellent chakra control of kurama he was still able to be manipulated.
What implications are there?? well just think about it, The taileld beast ball requires concentration and the ability to condense dense

You must be registered for see links

To get that into an orb shape is a sign of chakra control. Even orochimaru said it's

You must be registered for see links

and if you remember correctly, to concentrate chakra into once point takes a

You must be registered for see links

. Releasing it successfully only adds to that feat.

You must be registered for see images

Its gets even better. The Ichibi is able to fire

You must be registered for see links

which is a even better connotation of much better chakra control.The reason i haven't mentioned any jins is because it would be the host's chakra control, not the biju. However we know it takes good chakra control because there is a certain ratio in which positive and negative needs to be in the TBB or it will not work.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Now despite this implied chakra control Obito and Madara were still able to control the Kurama with not much of a struggle. Why do i say that? because using a large amount of chakra would show exhaustion, Obito nor madara were illustrated with this fatigue. He was able to fight Minato and us Kamui.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And yes they did use the sharingan to minipulate it so it's Dojutsu releated. Could the TB have a weakness to dojutsu genjutsu?

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So this means that HE was able to control the Kyyubi with the sharingan without using a large portion of chakra. Someone with good chakra control has been

You must be registered for see links

. All TB has been around since the Sages era and the Kyyubi has been shown to know a great deal about the history of shinobi's and Jutsu, he IS apart of the Juubi who created chakra.

This could indeed have something to do with the contract that they make with the 9 tails because it has been shown to affect the 9 tails even

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

. Of course this could just be to secure the submission of the biju.

This may mean that despite TSUNADES Perfect chakra control, she can still be caught in Genjutsu. Either that or this is a plot hole to aid the stories development.

 

[Everztar]

tldr for now, but i comment here so that i can come back and read it when i come home from work!

 

[iNotorious]

I agree with the most parts but let's give props for tsunade and sakura for their chakra control also.​

 

[~Sky~]

Even though one has good chakra control, the Genjutsu user may be too strong in Genjutsu for the victim to break out of it.

Considering we've only seen Tailed Beasts controlled by master Genjutsu users with MS, after all.

 

[CrystalPad]

Even though one has good chakra control, the Genjutsu user may be too strong in Genjutsu for the victim to break out of it.

Considering we've only seen Tailed Beasts controlled by master Genjutsu users with MS, after all.

However Obito hasnt demonstrated any mastery of gen after that incident.

I agree with the most parts but let's give props for tsunade and sakura for their chakra control also.​

Their chakra control is excellent but the implications are mixed and with the info i gathered its possible they are not completely immune to gen. I give them credit for that much.

tldr for now, but i comment here so that i can come back and read it when i come home from work!

Thank you

 

[- J AV -]

Even though one has good chakra control, the Genjutsu user may be too strong in Genjutsu for the victim to break out of it.

Considering we've only seen Tailed Beasts controlled by master Genjutsu users with MS, after all.

This^^^
Even a perfect chakra controller could fall in genjutsu Becoz of strong genjutsu and strong user

However Obito hasnt demonstrated any mastery of gen after that incident.

Obito controlled 4th Mizukage with genjutsu

 

[~Sky~]

However Obito hasnt demonstrated any mastery of gen after that incident.

He successfully controlled a Perfect Jinchuriki, Yagura with Genjutsu and he killed Konan with a Genjutsu.

Plus he had the MS, which was said to have the ability to control Kurama anyway.

 

[CrystalPad]

This^^^
Even a perfect chakra controller could fall in genjutsu Becoz of strong genjutsu and strong user

But since when has Obito been shown to have a talent in genjutsu??

 

[Kirikoe]

nice analysis.. i had a theory on why the sharingan could control the tailed beasts so well myself

i believe that the sharingan and mokuton are derived from the juubi.. as we have seen the juubi can use both mokuton and has a unique eye

it would not be to wild to say that when the sage split himself he split parts of the juubi's powers aswell

now the reason why i think they work so well on the bijuu is because they are the juubis powers which means these powers have a connection to all the bijuu.. and since the bijuu is the ultimate form of all the tailed beasts it isnt unlikely that they are esily controlled.. especially when it is done by the likes of madara and hashirama

 

[iNotorious]

However Obito hasnt demonstrated any mastery of gen after that incident.



Their chakra control is excellent but the implications are mixed and with the info i gathered its possible they are not completely immune to gen. I give them credit for that much.



Thank you

@Bold, Jinchuurikis aren't immune, they can get caught in a genjutsu.​

 

[- J AV -]

But since when has Obito been shown to have a talent in genjutsu??

4th mizukage yagura almost perfect jin .
Obito controlled him using genjutsu

 

[CrystalPad]

nice analysis.. i had a theory on why the sharingan could control the tailed beasts so well myself

i believe that the sharingan and mokuton are derived from the juubi.. as we have seen the juubi can use both mokuton and has a unique eye

it would not be to wild to say that when the sage split himself he split parts of the juubi's powers aswell

now the reason why i think they work so well on the bijuu is because they are the juubis powers which means these powers have a connection to all the bijuu.. and since the bijuu is the ultimate form of all the tailed beasts it isnt unlikely that they are easily controlled.. especially when it is done by the likes of madara and hashirama

He is the creator of all things so all form of jutsu originated from the Juubi itself. and yeah i wrote about that, i do believe that they have a weakness to it because it's a Dojutsu that its being controlled with. I don't think normal genjutsu would be effective.

@Bold, Jinchuurikis aren't immune, they can get caught in a genjutsu.​

And be broken out straight away, but in a sense your correct. Jins have to learn a sense of Chakra control so that only helps them combat the gen.

 

[CrystalPad]

4th mizukage yagura almost perfect jin .
Obito controlled him using genjutsu

My point exactly, it must be something to do with the Dojutsu itself rather than just the genjutsu. and "almost" is the word to use but i dont recall Obito casting genjutsu on Yagura unless your refering to edo yagura

 

[brownbear]

Nice thread,this hasn't crossed my mind before.

Now I have something to ponder....

Mabey its like a bear trap,easy to avoid if you see it but if your not watching for it your caught in an instant. Kurama might just be to arrogant to think it won't happen again.

 

[Kirikoe]

He is the creator of all things so all form of jutsu originated from the Juubi itself. and yeah i wrote about that, i do believe that they have a weakness to it because it's a Dojutsu that its being controlled with. I don't think normal genjutsu would be effective.



And be broken out straight away, but in a sense your correct. Jins have to learn a sense of Chakra control so that only helps them combat the gen.

well not exactly.. chakra originated from the juubi but as we have seen many jutsu was developed after by utilising chakra..

 

[iNotorious]

He is the creator of all things so all form of jutsu originated from the Juubi itself. and yeah i wrote about that, i do believe that they have a weakness to it because it's a Dojutsu that its being controlled with. I don't think normal genjutsu would be effective.



And be broken out straight away, but in a sense your correct. Jins have to learn a sense of Chakra control so that only helps them combat the gen.

Indeed but still, they aren't immune to them. But i wonder about the one that got controlled with MS:|​

 

[- J AV -]

My point exactly, it must be something to do with the Dojutsu itself rather than just the genjutsu. and "almost" is the word to use but i dont recall Obito casting genjutsu on Yagura unless your refering to edo yagura

I see . >.>
I think its Dojutsu . MS

 

[S M D]

nice thread dude i really like it U_U

 

[iNotorious]

nice thread dude i really like it U_U

Smd going ham ?

OT: of course

 

[- J AV -]

nice thread dude i really like it U_U

Welcome back . I guess .